Those pins would not have been there in the early 70's

Your games are made of real wood. Not cardboard.

Maybe people are just trying to shake and dislodge the super bright red and purple LEDs out of the GI so they can play the game. Public service

His timeline is clearly off, it was a long time ago.

There are assholes everywhere you go…pin shows, at the grocery store, Disneyland, even my office. As others have said, fortunately they are usually the minority. A handful of people that are abusive can’t ruin it for everyone…I find kicking them in the back of the knee while they are playing will make them walk away from the game they are abusing.

This thread actually made me chuckle. I was hauling pins to the show for others, so unfortunately didn’t have room to bring one of my own for free play. But all of this talk did make me remember Pinfest.

I took my restored Vampire (well, 85% restored). The amount of people that told me I was “stupid for bringing it” or that were surprised I did made me laugh. I remember telling a few of them, “I did all of this work, and am I supposed to just leave it at home to stare at it?” I wanted other people to enjoy it and see the work I had done. The game plays awesome, and there are always a ton of EM’s at shows that just play like crap.

During the three days it was there, somebody was nice enough to keep playing with one of the pop skirts locked down, melted the spoon a little and almost burnt out the coil. No big deal, and this is a game with all brand new parts. I lifted the playfield, took it apart and fixed it. Game was back up and running in 5 minutes.

A few people were a little abusive on it, and I was more than happy to say something to them. The game came home with a few minor scratches, but nothing to sulk over. I was glad to let people enjoy it, and plan on taking it to York as well.

At Pintastic, I saw a couple people doing some stupid things on games, and I didn’t hesitate to say something to them, even though it wasn’t my game. That’s all we have to do.

Colsond3 Your Vampire pin sounds great and from the pictures you posted here in another thread it looks great. I have never played the pin or even seen it anymhere I have went. But you to share the pin states to your character and commitment to the hobby and you help to make this a hobby that others may want to start or even comeover to the EM side.

Thanks man...maybe you’ll make it out to one of the NE shows and throw a few games up on it. It’s definitely not a game you see often, or at many shows.

I will say, at Pinfest a few times when people were being rough with it, I did turn it off for 10 or 20 minutes. It was funny, because one guy was shaking it pretty rough to avoid the outlane drain over and over, so this happened after the second time he did it:

Me: Oh wow. Is that your game?
Him: Nope...but it’s friggin nice.
Me: It is nice and it’s mine...so stop fuckin shaking it like that.

He walked away and I didn’t see him again.

LMAO

Nothing at the time and slink off to Pinside and complain behind their backs?

That's not my nose, it's a false one!

Also take their picture and post it.

Big deal. Some guy in this thread had a guy SWEAT on his game. The humanity!

Or the humidity.

Here’s some help for when you make it out to the show next year. #stoppinabuse

I guess the truce expired and we get another thread about people who think pinball machines are trailer queens meant to be handled like pieces of crystal.

It seems most new blood has no clue what games are built to tolerate.

Well with the way some of them are built as of late with cabinets falling apart and playfields shedding paint and clear coat after a minimum amount of plays, and them spending ridiculous amounts of money on them just so they can get their dream themes....

I think that is a bit extreme...it’s not about what they are built to tolerate, it’s simply about respecting someone else’s property.

Nobody has a problem with nudging, etc. It’s people lifting up and dropping games, sliding them across the floor, carving their initials into the side, and being overly abusive.

And as Odin pointed out, let’s be honest: older solid-state and EM games are built like damn tanks, whereby newer games are built like total shit and cheaply (and some complete with OOF manufacturing defects that make them even more prone to damage).

Do I expect a game on location for three years being played by God knows who to get some abuse and have some damage? I sure do.

Do I expect a game I bring to a two or three day pinball show to come home with significant damage or in need of serious repairs? I shouldn’t.

We can all enjoy other people’s games and be respectful at the same time. It’s really not that hard. Nobody is saying the games shouldn’t be played the way they were meant to be played.

People perceiving being rough with a game is the issue here. No one is coming home with significant damage.

Significant damage is to be based on perception.

I have a new theory after watching that video @colsond3, if it's not legal in tournament play, do not do it in free play.
-Mike

Yes, we've all seen Bowen do it 1000 times in videos and everyone loves it.

Just watched that video and don't think it was abuse. Machine would have tilted, working as it should.

It was sarcasm...someone kicking the front of a machine to perform a death save would be a different story.

Stern games are BORN to death save, especially now that they weight about 150 pounds.

JJP games it's impossible, due to the apron.

And that is perception, as Mike said.

Tell that to the guy at the York show three years ago that brought his game home with the leg bolt receiver and the cabinet ripped apart from someone that was dragging the game sideways to make a save. I think that constitutes significant damage, so it does happen.

And there is also a difference with a totally restored game or brand new, versus an old players condition game.

Damn disrespectful people!

Don't you understand, pinball is not just a game or hobby, it is a way of life, and is to be handled with kit gloves and preserved for all of eternity!
pinball-smash (resized).jpg

Little did that guy know that when the ball gets stuck, you can just remove the glass.

Ergo the problem... the majority of the new blood has a completely distorted view of what that is. People thinking a slap save is abuse... people thinking a slide (that doesn't bite in) is abuse... or people thinking chimp flipping is going to ruin their game.

Obviously no one supports the idea of defacing a game.. or slamming a game into the wall.. kicking doors.. etc. But people can't separate 'destruction of property' from 'things I personally don't do when I play'. So someone who never shakes a game, is appalled and cries 'abuse!!!' when someone else does. Truth is... most don't even know what really hurts a game or not.

Obviously when someone pretties a game up to the 9s, chrome, etc... if you want it staying that way you gotta baby it. But someone crying a river over a scratch on the glass? Or putting something on a game? please.. If you can't handle your game getting 'normal wear and tear' - don't put it in a free play area.

It reminds me of the post on FB I think it was where people were standing on games to do something and people acted like they were doing the worst thing possible and they don't even deserve to own those games! I mean, I wouldn't walk on my glass... but I know it's not going to ruin or damage the game. So nothing to sweat over if someone wants to do it with their games.

These people would be appalled to see how games are usually handled. Operators tilting games by the shooter rod, operators hauling arcade games by the joystick.... climbing around on cabinets like they are ladders.

People see these pimped out games and think every game needs the same handling. They don't. And this is coming from someone who has been taking multiples of my games to shows and tournaments for many years.

The only way we get shows with great games at them... is to be part of the solution and take our games.

What's wrong with sliding the game?

I agree with most of what you said. I have brought a ton of games to tournaments and events as well, and my experience has been mostly good.

And when someone is at my place playing my games with kid gloves, I’m the first to tell them, “go ahead, give it a nudge or shake it a little. You’re not going to hurt it.“

But chimp flipping is just plain annoying. It serves no purpose in gameplay and there is no need for it. It puts unnecessary wear on your coils and switches, which I certainly don’t feel like rebuilding right after a show because some moron felt the need to just keep aimlessly whacking the flippers over and over again.

On a crappy condition players game, nothing. If that’s your thing.

Flipper buttons are there for a reason, and games wouldn’t have a tilt bob if they were meant to be slid 3 feet across the floor. When you tilt a game, that means you did something outside of how it is supposed to be played. It isn’t a prize, it’s a penalty.

If you like sliding games, go play a bingo or a flipperless machine.

And the reality is some people think they “work on games” because they change some bulbs and rubbers in a few hours.

When I spend a good amount of money and 100+ hours restoring a game…yeah, I don’t want someone roughly shaking or sliding it around. I don’t really give a shit what someone else thinks is “acceptable”.

I play my games all the time and put up high scores, with some nudging, but without doing all the stupid crap I watch other people do.

I’m not playing for the IFPA championship title every time I toggle a game on. Neither is anybody else.

Just keep it at home in the diaper rubbing zone then

Shake the crap outta that machine one more time you chicken plucker!

Haven't seen a Chicken Plucker (Make the feathers fly) arcade game for over 30 years now.

Ok, so what's wrong with sliding a game if you manage not to tilt it? I don't tilt when I slide, and can confirm there are tilt bobs in the game. I'm not going to go into your house and slide your personal game or a game at a show, but on location, of course I will. The tilt bob is in there for a reason, and if you manage to manipulate the game without tilting, more power to the player.

I can agree with that post. As Flynn said above, I think the real issue is some people are considering some things abuse that are just laughable. Somebody putting a drink on a game glass isn’t the end of the world, but if they spill the drink on the glass, that could be very problematic.

I think we all know what being way too rough with a game actually means, and that is really all I am really concerned with.

I have little kids come over when we have parties, they chimp flip and I have never felt the need to rebuild flippers because of it - if you do - there was probably something wrong with it in the first place. I also don't call them morons, they are just not educated....so I educate them.

With the exception of a few intentional asshats under the influence of alcohol, the rest is about expectations and guidance. These events are open to the general public, not exclusively pinball hobbyists. If you rub your game with a diaper it should probably not be there, if you are concerned with specific types of handling, you should be willing to supervise your games. I think it would be a unanimous conclusion that taking a hammer to someones games would be abuse, but a lot of folks don't consider lifting, sliding, shaking or hammering flipper buttons as abuse to a commercial pinball machine. If you do, you'll need to spell it out ahead of time at the location, or don't bother bringing your game.

I didn’t start the thread, just commenting on what others have wrote, and throwing out some of my experiences & observations.

I do take players condition and my nice games to shows and all over the place. Have even rented them out for events. I do supervise my games and have no problem telling someone if I think they are doing something inappropriate, or I just don’t like. I will let people do whatever they want most of the time.

The guy I said something to at Pinfest, in my story above, was literally shaking the thing so hard that the BG was rattling and the backbox itself was actually moving flimsily. And yes, the bolts were tightened. Unless he can tell me where to buy a new Vampire backglass, he ain’t fucking shaking my game like that just for the risk alone.

And I would never not take my games, even restored ones, to shows. For every 30 people that enjoy it, there’s one asshole. I’m OK with that statistic. I just hope I’m in proximity to the game when the asshole happens to be playing.

No one has ever been that exciting aboot an NBA