(Topic ID: 220298)

Treatment of games at Pinball Show by some attendees


By Multiballmaniac1

10 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 220 posts
  • 85 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 months ago by DNO
  • Topic is favorited by 6 Pinsiders

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    Topic poll

    “Bring a game to a show?”

    • Hell no! 127 votes
      58%
    • Yes it’s expected to be roughed up a little 42 votes
      19%
    • Yes 51 votes
      23%

    (220 votes)

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    There are 220 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 5.
    #51 10 months ago
    Quoted from Capinball:

    I wouldn't say anything bad about the tournament director because it was two distinct players who did it when he was on a well deserved break. He's a great tournament director and you don't realize how good of a job he does until you play in other events/tournaments. I was surprised to see it get moved because it's a pretty heavy widebody.

    Fair enough, the tourney director can’t be everywhere at once and they do need breaks also; agreed. The responsibility of protecting machines in the tourney area continues to go down hill though, when a tourney director goes on break whoever is there in his stead should be ready to kick someone out if they are lifting the game off its front feet and dumping it on the ground.

    The IFPA should be notified and the person’s player profile should be given a permanent mark so future tourney directors know when someone who likes to damage machines enters their events so they know who to keep an eye on. If this happened you’d see a lot less abuse...

    12
    #52 10 months ago

    I was blown away how some people behaved this weekend with others games.

    One person said to me that a solid shove would have saved my ball, I replied that I was aware but I don't manhandle other peoples machines. He was blown away at that response.

    #53 10 months ago
    Quoted from Outlanes:

    I was blown away how some people behaved this weekend with others games.
    One person said to me that a solid shove would have saved my ball, I replied that I was aware but I don't manhandle other peoples machines. He was blown away at that response.

    Yup. Sounds right.

    #54 10 months ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    Yep, sounds like it.

    Sounds like what. You’re just jealous you didn’t smell all the farts being laid.

    #55 10 months ago

    With the way people were behaving it’s no wonder why so many machines were out of service.

    #56 10 months ago

    A few months back at a tournament, I saw a teenager (6ft and built like a linebacker) pick up and drop a MB after he drained with a great big slam. He acted like a fairly angry person even before the tournament started. I don't know what the aftermath of that was, but the room kind of went a bit quiet when that happen--no easy feat in a noisy room filled with pins.

    At the show I was at this weekend, I was told that someone got angry they drained on my RFM and shoved it back a couple of feet. And that is a pretty heavy game. Supposedly, the guy was chewed out for doing it. I didn't notice any damage, thankfully.

    By the end of the show, the playfield glass on my RFM ended up with several new scratches, so I imagine people were putting stuff on it for some reason. I'm not particularly happy about that. Pins aren't tables, and I see people putting bags, purses, drinks, and whatnot on games all the time. Whenever I see that happen I ask people not to do that.

    I sure as heck don't want scratches in a brand new sheet of glass, or an expensive sheet of glass like the one found on pin 2000 games. I'm almost tempted to try covering the glass in mylar, though I'm not sure if that would prevent the reflective properties of the glass from working properly.

    #57 10 months ago

    Its stories like that and similar things I've seen as the primary reason why I will never bring a pin from my personal collection to a show. If I owned a route and was bringing games from there, ok cool, but never from my home collection. Hell, I remember hearing a story about some kid side kicking the side of a tournament game at a local show, ridiculous.

    #58 10 months ago

    In my opinion...a pinball show is like location play on steroids....your game gets way more play than it would ever get in a 3 day span. That said....they are commercial machines. They are supposed to take abuse on location.

    Perhaps not the type of abuse the OP described....and quite frankly at a show someone should be walking around watching out for that stuff.

    #59 10 months ago

    It seems simple if you weren't raised by savages. Respect other people's stuff.

    Pinball machines are built to withstand shaking, within a reasonable range. Nudging is as much a part of the game as outlane drains. Some tables even leave the factory with shaker motors.

    Picking up the cabinet and slamming it on the ground is not in that reasonable range. Nor is beating on or kicking the coin box. Those people should be kicked out of and banned from a pinball location, to say nothing of these shows and festivals.

    If it wasn't for these heathens, I might actually expect to find some good pins on location, so that it's not like finding the needle in the haystack when you see one on which everything works.

    #60 10 months ago

    It makes me respect guys who brought games that much more. What really impressed me was a theater of magic was sold at the show and then left on the floor for everyone to play. Same with several other games. Batman 66le in the freeplay, along with some other great titles.

    Was great, I was impressed.

    #61 10 months ago

    After watching the behavior of some tournament players, I visualized installing spikes on lockdown bars and rails.

    #62 10 months ago
    Quoted from Neal_W:

    After watching the behavior of some tournament players, I visualized installing spikes on lockdown bars and rails.

    Fingers on the buttons...anything else is a shock!

    #63 10 months ago
    Quoted from Who-Dey:

    What about crop dusting? Is it ok when people walk by and crop dust like an entire row of games?

    In the rare occurrence that someone repeatedly starts new games with people in line behind him, then crop dusting is allowed.

    #64 10 months ago
    Quoted from TigerLaw:

    TPF, for example (at least I haven’t).

    Someone saw my Space Shuttle several years ago get picked up and dropped on it's front legs. I never even noticed anything had happened to it, that game was a bloody tank. I haven't had issues with my other games but you never really know what happens when you aren't watching your games constantly.

    #65 10 months ago
    Quoted from Grizlyrig:

    Again I do not drink alcohol and think that it fuels stupid actions at events because too much is served. I see too many attendees leave at night that would blow over .08 guaranteed, wait for the first time that comes back on a show! =no more shows
    -Mike

    Meh. Friend of mine had his Shadow get barfed on at TPF from a crew of drunk guys. Thankfully one of the more sober ones did their best to clean it up, and he had functional lockdown bar foam, but we had a laugh about it after the fact. That's the worst thing I know of happening at Texas Alchoho...er...Pinball Festival that is booze related. Except for me tanking classics finals.

    #66 10 months ago
    Quoted from Frax:

    Someone saw my Space Shuttle several years ago get picked up and dropped on it's front legs.

    He thought when the game said "liftoff" it was a command.

    #67 10 months ago
    Quoted from TigerLaw:

    Only a part of location Pinball. No one has ever raged tilted a game in my home for example...at least never in the ways being described here in this thread.

    Well yes location pinball, like a pinball show.
    Just because no one is rough with your machines doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I've banged back on my TZ plenty of times which would amazingly make half the people here cringe.
    It's all what your history is...I came from commercial business side were you need to move the ball from a stuck position or not make monies. I didn;t have keys so there isn't much option then to shake the4 shit out of it. Pick up drop, it's been done. These machines get shipped cross sountry stadning on their legs for god sakes. People that are introduced in home ownership see it a little diff'rent.

    #68 10 months ago

    I see a distinct difference between a for profit business and guys volunteering their machines for our shows. Repair is a cost of doing business, but for a guy bringing personal cherished machines abuse is just unacceptable.

    Normal wear sure, but this slamming stuff has to stop or no one will bring games.

    #69 10 months ago

    So I should stop carving my score and initials on the side of games.

    Damn you guys are a bunch of buzz kills

    #70 10 months ago
    Quoted from timtim:

    So I should stop carving my score and initials on the side of games.
    Damn you guys are a bunch of buzz kills

    No big deal, it'll buff right out.

    #71 10 months ago
    Quoted from timtim:

    So I should stop carving my score and initials on the side of games.
    Damn you guys are a bunch of buzz kills

    Don't joke--that actually happened at Pinfest this year--someone carved their initials into a lockbar on a MM.

    #72 10 months ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    It's all what your history is...I came from commercial business side were you need to move the ball from a stuck position or not make monies. I didn;t have keys so there isn't much option then to shake the4 shit out of it. Pick up drop, it's been done. These machines get shipped cross sountry stadning on their legs for god sakes. People that are introduced in home ownership see it a little diff'rent.

    Nonsense. Disrespecting someone’s game by raising it off the ground and smacking it down to the ground is simply not acceptable at a show, ever. If someone does something like that says, “I’m a location player so screw you and your game you over sensitive nit”...they are being a jerk and have a problem. A Pinball show and location Pinball are not the same thing.

    outlanes has the right of it.

    Quoted from Outlanes:

    I see a distinct difference between a for profit business and guys volunteering their machines for our shows. Repair is a cost of doing business, but for a guy bringing personal cherished machines abuse is just unacceptable.
    Normal wear sure, but this slamming stuff has to stop or no one will bring games.

    The location owner can deduct the game, parts, labor, and many related expenses. It’s still wrong to treat their games like junk, but it is even worse to treat a collector’s game at a show like junk...they don’t make money off their machines and can’t deduct the repairs.

    #73 10 months ago
    Quoted from Outlanes:

    I see a distinct difference between a for profit business and guys volunteering their machines for our shows.

    So do I...I'm just telling you people at a pinball show are not all super pinsiders or even pinball enthusiasts...they're just the same normal folk that beat on machines since the dawn of man

    Quoted from TigerLaw:

    Nonsense. Disrespecting someone’s game by ....

    Blah blah blah...I understand that. I'm not telling you that I would do it, or you should do it...I'm telling you PEOPLE will do it.
    My only point is that the machines can handle it.

    Quoted from TigerLaw:

    A Pinball show and location Pinball are not the same thing.

    Well not to you, a man that owns a bunch of pinball machines. To some putz off the street that sees something cool to do for a Saturday it may be.

    #74 10 months ago
    Quoted from Only_Pinball:

    Yes, it does get BAD! Problem with a gas mask is it makes it hard to play. A better bet is to apply some Vicks VapoRub on your top lip! Problem solved.

    Might also work for stale cigarette smell and terminal BO.

    #75 10 months ago
    Quoted from jp1985:

    With the way people were behaving it’s no wonder why so many machines were out of service.

    Rough use is a factor in this, but another big factor is some people bringing games in crappy condition.

    On the first day of a pin fest/expo when you start scoping out all the machines in the free-play area, in general, you can play a game on a machine for example and you can tell if it feels nice and tight and playing great, or if it feels worn out, loose and sluggish, and perhaps it hasn't even been shopped out.
    Some machines have something crap out on the first day, and often not because of rough play.

    Even more disappointing is someone bringing a machine that they know has issues and needs repairs done to it, but brings it anyhow knowing that they can get a skilled repair technician to work on it, basically for free, and at most have to pay for parts. They take advantage of the fact that expos/festivals that are well run events, hire techs to help fix machines over the weekend. I can't prove that this happens, but it's my gut feel in some instances. This does not apply to the vast majority, as most people that bring games enjoy bringing a machine that plays well and like seeing others having fun playing their machine.

    #76 10 months ago

    Is this an alcohol related issue? Didn't see any of this at Pinfest... No alcohol served there. Most of the attendees appeared to have even showered once during the previous week leading up to the event.

    #77 10 months ago

    Those who drink will say no way, I am aware of my actions but as the night goes on and the alcohol level increases so does the carelessness. Just like watching COPS on tv and they say I can drive, it was just 2 beers.
    -Mike

    #78 10 months ago

    I was on the fence like a bunch of you guys regarding whether to bring a game or not to the Louisville show last year. I had just picked up a scared stiff and still had it in the vehicle. I did some research and decided that a note on the game with my number, a tight tilt, fresh wax, and watching it on occasion should keep it relatively safe from idiots.

    It ended up working out ok. I got free admission, everyone I talked to thanked me for bringing it and gushed about it, and it didn't break. A little but more wear in the shooter lane and a coffin vuk that kept throwing its hinge were the worst of it. That said, I personally won't bring an expensive game like scared stuff again unless I'm trying to sell one. I'd like to have one game in my collection that I bring to shows and is a players condition game.

    #79 10 months ago

    this would probably help any game.

    I remember also reading a post by someone who said they put fresh balls in at the start of the show, and fresh balls when they bring the game home again, and that makes a lot of sense. Every other problem can be fixed easily, other than playfield wear, so why not put some fresh balls in.

    #80 10 months ago

    For those who are of the belief that it’s more acceptable to abuse a pin on route because the operator can claim a loss and everything is fine, you are sadly misinformed or delusional.

    The profit margin is extremely small and typically there is not enough money made to off set the “loss”. There are also other things to deduct such as mileage, parts, new pins and depreciation. All those other claims do not leave much if anything else for a tax break.

    Also, claiming a loss due to abused equipment does not equal a profit by any means. One would be lucky to offset taxes owed for example: $5500 machine destroyed due to abuse, let’s say taxes are (insert whatever number) 16%, the operator would not be liable for about $880 in taxes. Now the operator is out one machine, his time and most likely going to rebuild the destroyed Pin at a higher cost than the tax “benefit” received.

    Abuse and vandalism is never acceptable in any environment or setting and there is never any cost offset to make up for it.

    #81 10 months ago

    First off, I give huge props to all the game bringers. You guys are the rock stars of any pinball show. I didn’t bring anything this year bc I was hoping to buy something, but I am thinking of trying to work out the logistics next year.

    For those of you who witnessed poor behavior, did you mention anything to the staff? In my experience, both as an attendee of multiple shows and as volunteer/staff at Pintastic, the tech crews care just as much as you guys do about stopping poor behavior, and if they are made aware, they will try to address it one way or another. At my station, quite a few people came and let us know about concerns/issues, and we made sure those concerns were passed along to be addressed. We do need some more volunteers for all of the crews next year, but we are also always looking at ways we can further streamline the setup to make Pintastic a positive experience for all.

    I agree that there are risks with allowing a lot of people to play your machine in a very short timeframe. But it’s also a lot of fun to be able to share your game with a ton of knowledgeable people who “get” what is exciting/unusual/neat about your game. And it’s also really cool to hear the “newbies” get it by the bug too. So there are definitely rewards that go along with the risks!

    #82 10 months ago

    I usually work security at our local show in Lodi,and we all especially watch for folks useing the pins harshly! Yes I see it too,but you have to have a strong volunteer group to safeguard other peoples generous sharing of a expensive possessions at these shows! I'm trying to arrange a special section showing our pins that have been modded out ! But that is not possible unless they can be totally watched over! Some people are just destructive by nature,IMHO HOWEVER,these shows depend on the ability to have a safe venue! Have fun,B safe!!!!

    13
    #83 10 months ago

    "a solid shove" to save a ball is not abuse.

    Smacking the sides of a game during play isn't abuse.

    Shaking a game to free a stuck ball isn't abuse.

    None of the above is going to cause any damage to a game.

    You know abuse when you see it. At a show I don't think you should be lifting a game off it's feet, or shaking a game so hard the backbox rattles back and forth. I didn't see ANY behavior all weekend in tournament or free play areas that would qualify as this kind of abuse.

    #84 10 months ago
    Quoted from golfingdad1:

    Uh Nope ...
    Think more on the lines of a Stink Bomb .

    Adult male in a Transformers shirt. Yeah you.

    #85 10 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    "a solid shove" to save a ball is not abuse.
    Smacking the sides of a game during play isn't abuse.
    Shaking a game to free a stuck ball isn't abuse.
    None of the above is going to cause any damage to a game.
    You know abuse when you see it. At a show I don't think you should be lifting a game off it's feet, or shaking a game so hard the backbox rattles back and forth. I didn't see ANY behavior all weekend in tournament or free play areas that would qualify as this kind of abuse.

    Well Levi I witnessed pure abuse plain and simple. Watching attack from mars in the EBL get lifted and slammed was abuse. I am still having nightmares.

    #86 10 months ago

    How about yellow carding people, with a note...

    #87 10 months ago
    Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:

    . I am still having nightmares.

    Gonna be a rough ride for you in this hobby.

    #88 10 months ago
    Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:

    Well Levi I witnessed pure abuse plain and simple. Watching attack from mars in the EBL get lifted and slammed was abuse. I am still having nightmares.

    Do your part. If I saw something like that I'd say "hey man, that's a little much." Most people would get the hint.

    #89 10 months ago
    Quoted from TheLaw:

    Gonna be a rough ride for you in this hobby.

    Hahahaha. Isn’t life a rough ride. Cancer, death, murder, war

    #90 10 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Do your part. If I saw something like that I'd say "hey man, that's a little much." Most people would get the hint.

    You’re right. I will fully admit. I should have said something. Next time I will be. Thanks
    Maybe next year I will volunteer to just walk around and keep an eye on things. Not be a dick, just let people know hey go easy please.

    #91 10 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    "a solid shove" to save a ball is not abuse.
    Smacking the sides of a game during play isn't abuse.
    Shaking a game to free a stuck ball isn't abuse.
    None of the above is going to cause any damage to a game.
    You know abuse when you see it. At a show I don't think you should be lifting a game off it's feet, or shaking a game so hard the backbox rattles back and forth. I didn't see ANY behavior all weekend in tournament or free play areas that would qualify as this kind of abuse.

    I agree with this statement 100%

    I didn't see any abuse this weekend, either. I'm not discounting that it could have happened, but everyone I spoke with agreed.

    The funny thing about nudging and slapping, is that most casuals don't realize you can (and should) do it if you want to play better.

    I play on location at a few small breweries around my house that have machines, and people will often say "you can do that?!?" I always say "absolutely!", and leave it at that without explaining that you can influence the movement of the ball or the surface in which it is rolling with a well timed nudge or slap. They think it's some type of black magic or something, lol.

    #92 10 months ago
    Quoted from tilted81:

    I’ve seen someone pick a machine up from under the front of the cab, lift it about a foot off the ground off it’s legs and drop it after draining ball 3. I was appalled...

    Did you tell the staff?

    Quoted from TigerLaw:

    Horrible! It’s the responsibility of those who run the shows to kick people out with no refund who do that. You don’t see stuff like that happening at TPF, for example (at least I haven’t).

    Let me make one minor change to this. It's also the responsibility of the patrons to help monitor this. If you see something like this happen tell an event staff member. If you don't like confrontation (no issues their) you can always snap a quick pic and show the organizer which will help them find them and remove them.

    I've always just said something to them but I've been told I can be a bit open mouthed a times You'd be surprised on how many people will step up and have your back after you break the ice. Just gotta do it with tact and that is where I feel most people go wrong.

    10
    #93 10 months ago

    What' s the point here? To scare everyone from bringing pins to shows so there's no more shows?

    I have been attending shows for years. I have never had a problem from bringing pins, nor have I seen a pin get royally abused. What is being described here is the exception, not the norm.

    A better topic would be How Show Jerks should be dealt with. I'd at minimum get in their face and depending on the offense possibly see about getting them banned.

    You can't just stand there like a disgusted wuss. 500-to-1 the owner wont be there to supervise their pin so it's up to you. We are a community. Treat a show pin like your own. Treat a witnessed offense like someone just pulled that crap in your game room. If you aren't up for the task then proceed to the nearest show organizer immediately to rat them out.

    Doing nothing is like letting someone bully you. It will persist if not dealt with.

    #94 10 months ago

    It's not just casuals... Multiple threads on pinside aboot people thinking nudging and moving machines is the wrong way to play.

    Seriously this shit is real

    #95 10 months ago

    Yeah c’mon, if you witness people bring rough to a game like that say something.

    #96 10 months ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Do your part. If I saw something like that I'd say "hey man, that's a little much." Most people would get the hint.

    This right here.
    If you see something, say something.
    You don't have to chew someone out but you can remind people that the games are someone's personal property, and they probably wouldn't want their own stuff treated that way.
    It does require a little finesse at times especially if it's a rage slam type of thing.
    The people that do this don't strike me as the type that read guideline signs, but at least try to put some shame on them and let them know the community frowns upon that type of behaviour.
    Give them the old Happy Gilmore Chi Chi head shake.

    Also if you aren't comfortable doing it, at least let the staff know so they can issue a warning.

    #97 10 months ago
    Quoted from frolic:

    I remember also reading a post by someone who said they put fresh balls in at the start of the show, and fresh balls when they bring the game home again, and that makes a lot of sense. Every other problem can be fixed easily, other than playfield wear, so why not put some fresh balls in.

    Fresh balls are always nice.

    #98 10 months ago

    The worst I've done is rotated a table (typically one of the more recent lightweight Sterns) a good 12 degrees to the left trying to shimmy-save an outlane ball. No picking up anything. No karate practice on the box.

    If you're not nudging, you're not trying as they say. Might as well play pachinko. But there are acts of playing pinball and acts of vandalism.

    Thanks to the people who route their pins and/or bring them to shows, and keep them playing through it all.

    #99 10 months ago
    Quoted from jfre81:

    The worst I've done is rotated a table (typically one of the more recent lightweight Sterns) a good 12 degrees to the left trying to shimmy-save an outlane ball. No picking up anything. No karate practice on the box.
    If you're not nudging, you're not trying as they say. Might as well play pachinko. But there are acts of playing pinball and acts of vandalism.
    Thanks to the people who route their pins and/or bring them to shows, and keep them playing through it all.

    You mean death save? That's a no-no.

    #100 10 months ago
    Quoted from NorCalRealtor:

    You mean death save? That's a no-no.

    Doesn't sound like one

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