(Topic ID: 216686)

Travel Time & Summer Time owners -- need your help on ST 100K+ lights


By SkyKing2301

1 year ago



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#1 1 year ago

7/10/2018 UPDATE: Finally discovered an "authentic" Summer Time in a FB Marketplace post (reference https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/travel-time-summer-time-owners-need-your-help-on-st-100k-lights#post-4486975 ) which confirms that my Summer Time -- and almost all the other known Summer Times -- appear to be Travel Time / Summer Time hybrids.

Original posting below:

TL;DR -- Summer Time appears to be configured (electromechanically) just like Travel Time with a Match stepper and separate light for 100K ... except Summer Time wasn't meant to use the Match feature, and the backglass is clearly designed to display 100K - 1M (in 100K increments) using what would be the match lights. I'm trying to see if there are Summer Times out there with this configured properly so I can figure out how to use this feature!

The full info:
I just recently finished shopping out a BEAUTIFUL Summer Time I picked up locally. Got everything working & adjusted properly, with one minor exception: the 100,000 lights.

Yes, lights.

Travel Time owners, you know you have a match unit in the backbox, with the 10 associated lights (00, 10, ... 90) near the top of the backglass. Presumably, like most other games, the stepper steps whenever you hit a 10 point (minimum available score increment) bumper, and then at the end of the game the 'random' number lights up.

You might be interested to know, since Summer Time is the non-replay version, there is no match feature -- and instead of the match numbers near the top of the backglass, it has lights for 100,000 and 200,000 and so on, all the way up to 1,000,000!

But here's the rub: in my Summer Time, the match unit is still present, and it still steps every time you score 10 points. This makes no sense, because then when the game's over, it lights up a random x00,000 score light.

I investigated further, and I found the 100,000 Point relay in the backbox. I verified this does activate at the appropriate time -- and when it does, it turns on a single light bulb which is hiding behind the top of the plume coming out of the volcano. I suspected this is where the 100,000 'text' is on Travel Time, as confirmed here in this video:

. This 'text' is not present on the Summer Time backglass. (I'll take a picture and post it in the next post.)

I don't have the schematic for Summer Time, as it's not on IPDB (though Travel Time's is present). It seems to me that perhaps the intent was to re-wire/re-configure the match stepper somehow, so that perhaps it would reset to 100K at the start of a game, light up when the 100K relay activates, and then step once for each additional 100K earned. However, this wouldn't work on mine either -- because it doesn't step up through them in order.

So, unless there's some way this whole thing was supposed to be set up (but isn't), then the best idea I can come up with is just relocate/rewire the volcano-plume light to Summer Time's 100K location, and abandon 200K-1M altogether. This would be somewhat disappointing, almost 'unfinished' in a way, not utilizing it to its full functionality, since the 200K-1M would never light up.

Fellow Summer Time owners (if there are any out there, lol), how does yours behave and/or how is it configured?

#2 1 year ago

Here's what the back of the backglass looks like on Summer Time. Where Travel Time has match numbers 00-90, Summer Time has 100K - 1M. Also, you can see ST has no 100K above the volcano plume, and also no credit window. (FYI, credit stepper is present in the backbox -- without a wheel! Haha)

20180510_233315 (resized).jpg

#3 1 year ago

I hate to ask a stupid question, but is it possible you have a Travel Time that someone has put a Summer Time backglass into? That's the only way I can see your match unit stepping every time 10 points is hit.

#4 1 year ago
Quoted from frobozz:

I hate to ask a stupid question, but is it possible you have a Travel Time that someone has put a Summer Time backglass into? That's the only way I can see your match unit stepping every time 10 points is hit.

Not a stupid question! I too considered this as a possibility, but there are two key pieces of evidence against this:
1) the Williams certification / serial number sticker is marked as "SUMMER TIME", and
2) the coil & hardware around the credit step-up unit appear completely clean & unused, and it lacks a credit wheel

#5 1 year ago

Does the serial number on the sticker match the one stamped into the wood under the coin door? Maybe someone swapped a BG and PF into a Travel Time cabinet.

Back in the days of "Balls To Play" Williams games, which were so easily converted to AAB (even more so for a timed game!) Williams supplied a sticker to block off the credit window and it was not unheard of for the replay version of the game to have its credit wheel removed and replay hardware disabled by an operator. But you definitely have an odd bird there...

#6 1 year ago

I'll have to look at mine, it's packed away at the moment tho

#7 1 year ago
Quoted from Drewscruis:

I'll have to look at mine, it's packed away at the moment tho

Ok thanks, looking forward to whenever you get an opportunity.

Quoted from frobozz:

Does the serial number on the sticker match the one stamped into the wood under the coin door? Maybe someone swapped a BG and PF into a Travel Time cabinet.

I'm 90% certain that it does, but I will verify tonight, as I don't have a picture of it with me.

Quoted from frobozz:

But you definitely have an odd bird there...

Yes I do; an odd bird indeed, and it's in such great shape! I'm very pleased with this machine and can't wait to put it in the lineup, once I get this last issue sorted out (one way or another).

#8 1 year ago

Matching numbers on playfield sticker and lower cabinet. I did not find a number stamped onto the backbox.

20180512_103105 (resized).jpg

20180512_103143 (resized).jpg

(Note, the 2 is stamped a little high, making it look like a 4 at a glance. Look closely, you'll see the top of the 2.)

#9 1 year ago

Another interesting thought / observation. This picture here http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2636&picno=71363&zoom=1 shows the inside of the backbox on a Travel Time. On my Summer Time, the placards/labels for the small jones plugs in the middle (for Replay vs Extra Time, and for Match On/Off) appear to be 'strategically' omitted. The Point Score Adjustment placard is still present, however, although none of the jones plugs are installed -- presumably since Summer Time wouldn't be set up to award replays for score.

I intend to test these to see if they function, just out of curiosity. From a production line standpoint, it would make sense for these to be here -- but then by not labeling them, you'd presume the operator wouldn't mess with them? Speculation, I suppose. Anyway, just more information.

#10 1 year ago

That's getting downright bizarre.

Is it possible they just built it wrong at the factory? You'd think someone would have noticed that. On the other hand they didn't get a lot of practice at it: the total production run was only 30 games. (I've given that information to Jay at ipdb, but I buried him in stuff a while back and he hasn't gotten it all into the database yet.)

#11 1 year ago
Quoted from frobozz:

That's getting downright bizarre.
Is it possible they just built it wrong at the factory? You'd think someone would have noticed that. On the other hand they didn't get a lot of practice at it: the total production run was only 30 games. (I've given that information to Jay at ipdb, but I buried him in stuff a while back and he hasn't gotten it all into the database yet.)

Holy crap, only 30??? The Pinside info here says 570 (which is still very small), but only 30?!

From a production line standpoint, I can totally understand the similarities, but maybe a planned change or two got missed and/or never implemented...? Having worked in an aircraft factory, I've seen first-hand that often it's cheaper/more efficient just to build them the same and then make a few simple modifications later.

We'd be further along if we could compare schematics and/or have a look at another Summer Time out there.

Sorry I haven't tested the Replay plugs yet; hope to get to it this week.

#12 1 year ago

I don't know where Pinside got their info but it's wrong. Only 30 were produced and sold.

It would not surprise me at all if Summer Time was designed to use largely the same wiring harness, jones plugs, etc. because of the expected low production. I suspect the schematics look awfully darn similar! For instance in a similar situation, "Planets" seem to have been produced on an ad-hoc basis on the production line by taking a "Zodiac" and removing a few parts like the replay wheel. But in the case of Travel/Summer Time where the Match Unit gets repurposed as a 100K unit there had to be something a tiny bit more consequential going on electrically.

#13 1 year ago
Quoted from frobozz:

I don't know where Pinside got their info but it's wrong. Only 30 were produced and sold.

Interesting. Not that I have any reason to doubt you, but I'm curious -- where did you get your info? And oh, if only this rarity actually translated into value ... this machine is in beautiful shape, and as much as I enjoy it, I'd happily give it up for the ability to step into a higher-end game...

Quoted from frobozz:

But in the case of Travel/Summer Time where the Match Unit gets repurposed as a 100K unit there had to be something a tiny bit more consequential going on electrically.

Most definitely -- seems like there should be a different (simpler, 1-10) stepper in there, with reset capability... this would be easier than trying to deal with the match unit.

#14 1 year ago

Exactly, add a reset coil to the match unit that resets on game start, and step it forward with a repurposed momentary 100K relay rather than the 10 point relay. Mostly the same setup, all the same wires out to the same lights in the insert panels, etc. but just a little different.

I'm the current curator of Steve Kordek's archives, so I have the daily production logs from that time period. Summer Time gets up to 30 produced, they sell the last one, then it drops off the logs in January of 1973. Travel Time got up to 3450 produced, with orders for 3528, and they finally cancelled the last 78 orders and the game drops off the logs in March of 1973.

#15 1 year ago

Oh, and the flyer for it says the score awards give extra time, not replays. That must have been an interesting circuit unique to Summer Time also.

#16 1 year ago
Quoted from frobozz:

Oh, and the flyer for it says the score awards give extra time, not replays. That must have been an interesting circuit unique to Summer Time also.

Interesting. I'll have to look at that too. Sure hope we can find another Summer Time to compare mine to ... it'd be a shame if I submitted all this info to IPDB and mine turned out to be some sort of aberration.

In the meantime ... man ... 1 of 30 ... someone buy this from me for big bucks!

#17 1 year ago

By no means am I also questioning your information, I just find it hard to believe only 30 made. I personally have played 3 different Summer Time's and have seen 4 listed on CL over the past year in Chicago and Wisconsin. I am knowledgeable of this only because I was hot for a while looking for a Travel Time and kept finding Summer Time's. If you figure 30 made, maybe 15 survived, and I spot almost half of that?

#18 1 year ago
Quoted from Mikala:

By no means am I also questioning your information, I just find it hard to believe only 30 made. I personally have played 3 different Summer Time's and have seen 4 listed on CL over the past year in Chicago and Wisconsin. I am knowledgeable of this only because I was hot for a while looking for a Travel Time and kept finding Summer Time's. If you figure 30 made, maybe 15 survived, and I spot almost half of that?

It's because you live near Wisconsin, where I bet every single one of them went. I've picked up more than my fair share of rare-ish AAB games since moving up this way too.

#19 1 year ago

Looking more closely, they only ever built samples of Summer Time. They initially "released to production" 85 Travel Times and 30 Summer Times. This means that purchasing was authorized to buy parts for that many games, manufacturing could schedule the resources to build that many games, etc. And they did. Summer Time was built a few at a time. 5 on 10/16/72, 6 on 10/26, 7 on 10/30, 3 on 10/31, 3 on 11/1, and the final 3 on 11/2/72. That's a "sample run" - they ship a few out to distributors who try to get people interested in buying them, sell a few to operators who put them on locations, and so on, , and sit back for a bit and see how much interest there is. Apparently not much, for Summer Time!

Travel Time's "released" number went to 1000 on 1/12/73 and by 1/18 they had sold 2667 of them. So the released number went to 2000 on 1/19, 3200 on 1/23 (by which time they'd sold 3157 of them) and 3450 by 2/10 (by which time they'd sold 3528 of them.) Actual production started on 1/24 with 40 games, quickly ramping up to over 100 a day (the highest I saw was 225). The last 65 were produced on 2/23.

#20 1 year ago

I had some more time to mess with the game tonight. Here's what I found. I hope you'll read it all, frobozz (and anyone else keeping up), because I have a few more thoughts to consider.

Quoted from SkyKing2301:

Another interesting thought / observation. This picture here http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2636&picno=71363&zoom=1 shows the inside of the backbox on a Travel Time. On my Summer Time, the placards/labels for the small jones plugs in the middle (for Replay vs Extra Time, and for Match On/Off) appear to be 'strategically' omitted. The Point Score Adjustment placard is still present, however, although none of the jones plugs are installed -- presumably since Summer Time wouldn't be set up to award replays for score.
I intend to test these to see if they function, just out of curiosity. From a production line standpoint, it would make sense for these to be here -- but then by not labeling them, you'd presume the operator wouldn't mess with them? Speculation, I suppose. Anyway, just more information.

Quoted from frobozz:

Oh, and the flyer for it says the score awards give extra time, not replays. That must have been an interesting circuit unique to Summer Time also.

In tinkering around tonight, here's what I determined on these features.

First, for Replay vs. Extra Time.
--> Through testing, I've determined the Replay vs. Extra Time controls the reward for the Score achievements. (In other words, TRAVEL and TIME specials award extra time no matter what.) On my Summer Time, setting the jones plug to Replay DOES, in fact, "award" a replay -- as evidenced by the single knocker strike and the wheel-less credit stepper stepping up one time. With the jones plug set to Extra Time, the machine awards 25 seconds (and knocker strikes five times, once for each 5-second increment). Of course, the score(s) at which the award is given is controlled by the Point Score Adjustment jones plugs.

As we've discussed, Summer Time is not supposed to have a Replay feature -- so I theorize that for simplicity in production, the machine is configured the same as Travel Time, but the jones plug is set for Extra Time, and the label showing Replay vs Extra Time is not included, so an operator wouldn't know it could be changed.

Next -- for the Match Feature On/Off plugs.
--> With Match set to On, the Match/100K stepper advances when 10 point increments are scored, and the applicable 100K - 1M light turns on at the end of the game. (Reference the previous posts about how the 100K - 1M lights are in the place of the Match lights.) However, when a 'successful' match occurs (where, for example 400,000 on Summer Time = 30 on Travel Time, as determined per my backglass configuration and the 30 lit up here in this video

), a replay is NOT awarded (as evidenced by no knocker strike nor stepping of the wheel-less credit stepper). I'll admit I was surprised at this, but without the schematics to compare...
--> With Match set to Off, the Match/100K stepper still advances when 10 point increments are scored, but the applicable 100K - 1M light does NOT turn on at the end of the game. I believe this is standard behavior of regular EMs when Match is set to off; stepper still steps, but no number lights up nor credit awarded at the end.

But, as we've previously discussed, why wasn't Summer Time then configured to work the 100K lights correctly? Why do they operate like a Match feature? And what about the light (that turns on per the 100K relay upon actually scoring 100K) located where Travel Time's 100K light is? You had a statement that made me wonder:

Quoted from frobozz:

Looking more closely, they only ever built samples of Summer Time. ... Summer Time was built a few at a time. ... That's a "sample run" - they ship a few out to distributors who try to get people interested in buying them, sell a few to operators who put them on locations, and so on, , and sit back for a bit and see how much interest there is. Apparently not much, for Summer Time!

One additional piece of evidence that may support this "Sample" run ... my Summer Time has a single coin mech in the door -- but DOES NOT HAVE A COIN ENTRANCE. All three 'windows' for coin entry are just a solid plate with a Williams logo. Would this be consisent of a sample sent to a distributor?

And so ... if the only Summer Times built were samples ... is it possible that they hadn't yet determined how to reconfigure/replace the Match stepper to accommodate the 100K - 1M scoring? Perhaps this was a feature that would be finished/incorporated if/when the game went into full production?

#21 1 year ago

I agree with your assessment that by removing the credit wheel and the label for the adjustment plug they were intending to "remove" the replay option without actually removing it electrically.

It is weird that the match unit not only steps with 10 points, but your 100K relay and light works like it would for Travel Time! I could see, for efficiency purposes, them not going to the trouble to remove the Travel Time 100K light, just not having anything for it to shine through on the glass. But again, you somehow have a game that is electrically acting like a Travel Time not a Summer Time.

Sample games would normally have working coin chutes, but it's also easy for someone later to add blocker plates. They should be in most ways like a production game, just built a little more slowly and sometimes surfacing problems that then get worked out for production. It seems inconceivable to me that they would run Summer Times on purpose that were so wildly WRONG when it comes to scoring functionality. Like, I could see them running one that way while they worked out the circuitry, but not 30! That wouldn't provide much of a test of the game's popularity if it just flat out didn't score properly.

So let's talk about your playfield. I know it has the Summer Time label on it, but do the upper targets spell out S-U-M-M-E-R, or T-R-A-V-E-L? Does the center kickout hole say it scores 5000, or 50,000? And what does it actually score? Does your center bumper cap say 100 or 1000? And what does it actually score?

#22 1 year ago
Quoted from frobozz:

So let's talk about your playfield. I know it has the Summer Time label on it, but do the upper targets spell out S-U-M-M-E-R, or T-R-A-V-E-L? Does the center kickout hole say it scores 5000, or 50,000? And what does it actually score? Does your center bumper cap say 100 or 1000? And what does it actually score?

Interesting questions, especially now that I've looked a little more closely at the flyer (http://ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2415&picno=4361&zoom=1) ... I see the artwork on the PF on the flyer shows S-U-M-M-E-R ... and yet the flyer text itself says T-R-A-V-E-L. Mine has T-R-A-V-E-L. Also, mine has 100 point bumper caps, and I'm 98% certain they all score 100. The center saucer reads 5,000, and again, 98% sure it scores 5,000. (Pretty sure I would've noticed a 50K point increase.)

You'll notice, the other Summer Time with photos on IPDB appears the same -- 100 caps, 5,000 saucer, and T-R-A-V-E-L. Again, perhaps S-U-M-M-E-R, 50K, and 1,000 cap was planned for production? Such a mystery!

My playfield:

20180430_225323 (resized).jpg

#23 1 year ago

The official PR photos definitely have the Summer Time legends. Interestingly the game depicted is not even a sample game, because there is no label on the upper arch or discernible serial number stamped on the front. I guess that makes it a one-off engineering prototype thrown together as a photo shoot game.

I think it is safe to say, then, that your game is indeed in every way just a Travel Time with a Summer Time backglass stuffed in it, but it's looking more and more like that is in fact how Williams made them! WTF? With the Travel Time scoring levels, there would actually not be so much need for the 100K/200K etc lights in the backglass. They could have run tests with such a beast in AAB territory and gotten some idea of its popularity.

Now I definitely want to hear from all these northern IL/southern WI Summer Time owners and verify that they were all made that way...

I'll get some scans of the PR photos up here (and sent to IPDB) just to complete this weird tale.

ETA: the IPDB Summer Time has Travel Time instruction cards. What does yours have?

#24 1 year ago

Looks like uploading to the IPDB is still broken so I'll have to remember to send these to them later.

These old color photos have all aged badly, so color correcting them is a bit of work and still doesn't look quite right.

Full machine (same photo used for the flyer): http://backglass.org/williams/kordek_archives/williams_travel_time_pr_photo_01_edit.jpg

Note that the coin entry plastics are for Italy! I don't see any hint of a serial number stamped in the front. Usually you can see that even if it's not legible in the photo.

Straight on shots of playfield and backglass: http://backglass.org/williams/kordek_archives/williams_travel_time_pr_photo_02_edit.jpg

Note that the instruction card has US pricing!

Here is a closeup of the cards and the name screened on the PF:

williams_travel_time_pr_photo_02_edit_cards (resized).jpg

#25 1 year ago
Quoted from frobozz:

The official PR photos definitely have the Summer Time legends. Interestingly the game depicted is not even a sample game, because there is no label on the upper arch or discernible serial number stamped on the front. I guess that makes it a one-off engineering prototype thrown together as a photo shoot game.

Interesting -- and thanks for the subsequent post with the photo shoot machine. Hey, there's at least ONE machine out there with the right playfield...

Quoted from frobozz:

I think it is safe to say, then, that your game is indeed in every way just a Travel Time with a Summer Time backglass stuffed in it, but it's looking more and more like that is in fact how Williams made them! WTF? With the Travel Time scoring levels, there would actually not be so much need for the 100K/200K etc lights in the backglass.

Good point. 50K scoring would definitely get you up there more quickly ... though with the ability to continue to earn extra time, the games could get up there. We haven't played much and yet my 6-year-old daughter had a game over 200K already.

Quoted from frobozz:

the IPDB Summer Time has Travel Time instruction cards. What does yours have?

Although my machine didn't have the left instruction card installed when I got it, I found the card sitting inside the cabinet and -- it's labeled Travel Time. I was going to make a new one (which would say Summer Time to match the backglass), but haven't yet, hence why it's not installed in my photo above.

Quoted from frobozz:

Now I definitely want to hear from all these northern IL/southern WI Summer Time owners and verify that they were all made that way...

Seriously! APB on finding Summer Times! We need to re-name this thread to "Solving the Travel Time / Summer Time Mystery".

#26 1 year ago

FYI I added wiring to "relocate" the 100K light. It wasn't as simple as jumpering (due to the configuration of the existing circuits I guess) so I just disconnected both the Travel Time & Summer Time 100K locations, and extended the wires from TT light to ST light. Also added various labels for future reference, and disconnected match stepper (since it's pointless in this application).

20180520_094511 (resized).jpg

Now we need to find the other Summer Time owners to solve the big mystery!

#27 1 year ago

I'd like to invite cactusjack and frankj over to this thread. I was trying to do a little more digging to solve this mystery, and found a little discussion they were having starting here (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/some-nice-looking-em-classics-just-came-up-on-cl/page/275#post-2845348) about Travel Time vs. Summer Time. Perhaps my thread can help enlighten them, or their they can enlighten us.

Also continuing the same-playfield-mystery, pinaholic posted a picture of one over here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/rarest-game-you-own/page/10#post-4315800

Inactive member djphbalance posted pics of his on his stories page (https://pinside.com/pinball/community/pinsiders/djphbalance/stories/1972-williams-summer-time-pinball-machine), and his shows the Travel Time playfield too. (Also interesting: his serial number is 151482 ... and mine is 151512 ... and frobozz says they only made 30 ... I wonder if Travel Time serial numbers are mixed in with Summer Times? Something else for me to dig into later.

The mystery continues...

#28 1 year ago

The way Williams serial numbers worked in those days was each machine out the door got the next serial number. Didn't matter if it was one of 4 pins they were running at the time, a gun game, slot machine, a video game, whatever. If you look at my earlier post about how many machines were made on specific dates, you can see that they'd get serial numbers spread out by a lot more than 30, intermixed with whatever else was being produced at the time. Looking at it more closely, Travel Time's sample run of 85 games was complete before Summer Time's sample run of 30 even started, so those numbers would not be intermixed. Travel Time sample games would have numbers lower than any Summer Time, and Travel Time production games would have numbers much higher. Big Star, Fan-tas-tic, and Astrodome (a shuffle alley) were what was being produced at the exact same time as the Summer Time samples.

#29 1 year ago

Invite received, and here I am. Wish I had something to add but there are so many factors that don't add up to any reasonable explanation. Summer Time tags but TT functionality. If only 30 were put together, it does seem as if your game (and maybe pinaholic's) were quickly slapped together as a quick test in New York. They could have simply left out all the Bulbs for Match and not cared about the unit stepping with 10 point scores. But they certainly didn't waste the labor of making anything but the production version of the Backglass silk screens. OR could they be the same exact machine?
With short game times, 99,990 max scoring would still probably allow a reasonable test on location. Remember, ideal game time for 5 Balls per play was 2 Minutes, 30 seconds. And without the function of the 100,000 unit, add-time-score thresholds would simply repeat if you rolled it over. Which is true of most add-a-ball games except the ones typically developed for Italy.

But then, why, does the publicity photo feature an actual ST screened playfield with 50,000 point center hole scoring? Of course, it looks like all the changes are all in the same color so only one extra silk screen had to be made to produce a few samples.

I know when we were operating in Phoenix, every brand new game had to be "Approved" by the police before we could run it. Once they knew what the game actually was (by Title), then everyone could operate that title. I wonder if the opposite was true for a place like NY? They would know which games were REPLAY games by name and therefore could not be operated. This would necessitate have a different Name but then doesn't explain the TT playfield art or the Instruction cards contained in your game.

#30 1 year ago

I have a travel time. Regarding yours, it makes me wonder if someone scavaged the best parts of two machines to make 1. The photo showing the back, you have 1 relay with the wrapper burnt off, that’s the 100k relay on travel time. I have an extra back box and mostly complete play field for TT, if anyone is interested. Interesting though, my TT has labels for selecting extra time or replays. I have not tried the extra time location. Interesting topic!

0762FF79-8A6D-452C-97AB-1D82CE46638F (resized).jpeg

#31 1 year ago
Quoted from nomo:

it makes me wonder if someone scavaged the best parts of two machines to make 1.

Frobozz and I have discussed this above, and while it's certainly a possibility, that may not be the case. Evidence (and/or theory) against it:
-- Upper apron certificate/label is stamped Summer Time, with 151512 serial number; cabinet serial number matches, as does backglass (obviously).
-- The only other few STs we've seen with enough detail so far are similar to mine -- with the TT setup playfield. The one built for the flyer is the only one we've seen so far with ST letters & scoring values. We need to find more ST owners!
-- Absence of credit wheel (wouldn't need it in a game not intended to give Replays)
-- Absence of labels identifying Replay vs. Extra Time, and Match On/Off. (Theory: with ST being 'AAB' version, it could be built the same as TT for ease of production, set plugs for Extra Time and Match Off, and not label them so operation wouldn't know they could be changed.)

Quoted from nomo:

The photo showing the back, you have 1 relay with the wrapper burnt off, that’s the 100k relay on travel time.

That is correct. It is labeled as such in mine, and functions as such in mine as well -- lighting up a light behind the volcano plume, which is where the 100,000 text is on the Travel Time backglass. For functionality purposes, I have rerouted the wiring so at least my 100,000 lights up when applicable.

Quoted from nomo:

Interesting though, my TT has labels for selecting extra time or replays. I have not tried the extra time location. Interesting topic!

See comment above regarding my theory for not adding those labels in ST.

Quoted from CactusJack:

Invite received, and here I am. Wish I had something to add but there are so many factors that don't add up to any reasonable explanation. Summer Time tags but TT functionality. If only 30 were put together, it does seem as if your game (and maybe pinaholic's) were quickly slapped together as a quick test in New York. They could have simply left out all the Bulbs for Match and not cared about the unit stepping with 10 point scores. But they certainly didn't waste the labor of making anything but the production version of the Backglass silk screens. OR could they be the same exact machine?
With short game times, 99,990 max scoring would still probably allow a reasonable test on location. Remember, ideal game time for 5 Balls per play was 2 Minutes, 30 seconds. And without the function of the 100,000 unit, add-time-score thresholds would simply repeat if you rolled it over. Which is true of most add-a-ball games except the ones typically developed for Italy.
But then, why, does the publicity photo feature an actual ST screened playfield with 50,000 point center hole scoring? Of course, it looks like all the changes are all in the same color so only one extra silk screen had to be made to produce a few samples.
I know when we were operating in Phoenix, every brand new game had to be "Approved" by the police before we could run it. Once they knew what the game actually was (by Title), then everyone could operate that title. I wonder if the opposite was true for a place like NY? They would know which games were REPLAY games by name and therefore could not be operated. This would necessitate have a different Name but then doesn't explain the TT playfield art or the Instruction cards contained in your game.

All good considerations. Unfortunately, unless we can find more Summer Times -- including ANY that might have the actual ST playfield shown in the flyer, we make never definitively solve this. On this note, I remembered I forgot to look at the serial number database ... (http://www.ipsnd.net/details.aspx?id=57994)... it appears someone by the user name 'Fun House' submitted my S/N photo from this thread about a week ago, lol ... who are you? There are only two others in there, but one has a photo that only shows the S/N on the cabinet, and the other doesn't have a photo at all.

#32 1 year ago

So, I guess my question to you is do you want to wire the game up to function with the 100,000-900,000 lights and scoring?

If so, the IPDB has the schematic for Big Star (AAB/Novelty of Super Star). It would probably he pretty close to what you need. Or you may want to look at Tropic Fun (AAB of Gulfstream) as I know it has some 10X score features.

#33 1 year ago

You could change the lead from the 100.000 to the lead of the match, but getting the machine to reset to is a different story.
And if the match unit works like the original the numbers will not appear in following order but on the original way, 30, 00, 70, 40...

#34 1 year ago
Quoted from wizardblom:

You could change the lead from the 100.000 to the lead of the match, but getting the machine to reset to is a different story.
And if the match unit works like the original the numbers will not appear in following order but on the original way, 30, 00, 70, 40...

Good point! That would require rearranging the order of the lamp wiring at the wiper board. And to use the 100K value as part of extra time award, would require additional re-arrangement.

#35 1 year ago

^ Exactly as you guys have deduced, there are some challenges with this idea -- I'd have to add & incorporate a reset coil, and then determine & rearrange the lamp wiring order. The latter would be relatively simple, the former a little more complicated.

As tempted as I am to attempt this, I'm going to hold off for now. I have two other project machines going currently (High Speed, and a gorgeous Far Out I just picked up a few days ago), and since Summer Time is fully playable right now, I'd like to keep it that way for a while. Since it uses the Travel Time scoring scheme, we'll see how much 'demand' there actually is for use of the 200K+ lights. (As I mentioned previously, I relocated/rewired the 100K light, so that works properly.) If people play it and 200K+ is rarely achieved, there really won't be much need/point in putting in the extra effort.

Now, we just need to find more Summer Times to solve the mystery!

#36 1 year ago

Invitation accepted. Sorry, but i’m no help. I’ve lived in three other states in my 35 years in the hobby (including being a neighbor of yours in the Orlando area). I’ve only seen one Summer Time, and have known of a few for sale - all here in northern Illinois or southern Wisconsin.

Couldn’t Travel Time be set up as a true add-a-ball - with extra time for features and scores? I assumed Summer Time was built for markets where there could be no settings for replays present.

Frank

#37 1 year ago
Quoted from FrankJ:

Couldn’t Travel Time be set up as a true add-a-ball - with extra time for features and scores? I assumed Summer Time was built for markets where there could be no settings for replays present.

Yes it could, by the set of jones plugs labeled Replay / Extra Time. My Summer Time has these same plugs -- and they do allow it to function both ways -- but they're not labeled. As mentioned previously, I theorize this was to allow for streamlined production -- but without a label, the operator wouldn't know it could be changed from Extra Time to replay.

#38 1 year ago

I have a Summer Time and it looks as if the game was abandoned before it got started. The flyer list 50,000 points for the kick out and bottom scoring switch. My inside bottom board is stamped Summertime. It has the match unit the same as yours. The playfields are Travel Time with the lower scoring as yours. The game looks as though it was never made to match the original design. I have thought of replacing the match unit with a stepper and rewiring the 5000 point relays to score 50000 but it plays fine the way it is.

#39 1 year ago
Quoted from frb:

I have a Summer Time and it looks as if the game was abandoned before it got started. The flyer list 50,000 points for the kick out and bottom scoring switch. My inside bottom board is stamped Summertime. It has the match unit the same as yours. The playfields are Travel Time with the lower scoring as yours. The game looks as though it was never made to match the original design.

Thanks for jumping in! So here's another one set up like a Travel Time -- we haven't yet found a Summer Time that looks like the flyer.

Five questions for you:

1) In the backbox, do you have labels identifying plugs for Replay / Extra Time, and Match On / Off?

2) Does your credit stepper (if it has one) in the backbox have a credit wheel?

3) When you say "inside bottom board", what part do you mean?

4) Is your manufacturer's label (upper apron at top of playfield) marked Summer Time?

5) What is your serial number?

1 month later
#40 1 year ago

EXCITING NEW DEVELOPMENT in the mystery!

Today on Facebook Marketplace, another Summer Time popped up: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/212206572768906/

I contacted the seller to request additional photos, and lo & behold, THIS ONE IS A LEGITIMATE SUMMER TIME!!! I've attached the pictures below.

- Playfield shows correct score increments
- Playfield shows correct S-U-M-M-E-R targets & text
- Stepper in the backbox is located up near the 100K-1M lights and is labeled "100,000 UNIT"; this stepper has two coils as expected, presumably one to step it and one to reset it
- The jones plug setup for the Special in this actual Summer Time shows either EXTRA TIME or NOVELTY (instead of EXTRA TIME or REPLAY like in actual Travel Times). For Summer Time, according to the card shown in the backbox, NOVELTY can be an award of 200K, 300K, or 400K points. (Seller had never tried this; verified at my request.)

So ... I suppose this may confirm the notion that there probably were "correct" Summer Time machines (with the same playfield in the flyer).

It doesn't tell us why there are so many Travel Times out there with Summer Time backglasses. It also doesn't explain the odd coincidence (?) of the lack of credit wheel and labeling of Extra Time vs. Replay. I think someone suggested earlier that perhaps they just made way too many ST backglasses -- so perhaps made & sold some TT/ST hybrids to use them up...?

Here are the "real" summer time pics.

36874927_10215106934219570_2932456674453094400_n (resized).jpg

37005667_10215106933859561_4391549999406645248_n (resized).jpg

36961326_10215106934659581_4078266116944691200_n (1) (resized).jpg

36876735_10215107755000089_5187733178265108480_n (resized).jpg

36890915_10215107757120142_5110145122343845888_n (resized).jpg

36905880_10215107754480076_2280802735697690624_n (resized).jpg

36892180_10215107754240070_7011259816928608256_n (resized).jpg

36874931_10215107753680056_1626756787921223680_n (resized).jpg

36941096_10215107753240045_2886429558641262592_n (resized).jpg

36910918_10215107752440025_5393638102323429376_n (resized).jpg

36899991_10215107752840035_268260470442426368_n (resized).jpg

36968116_10215107751800009_1706823624087830528_n (1) (resized).jpg

#41 1 year ago

"Fully restored" (in his ad) - that's hilarious!

What is the serial number?

Don't discount the possibility that this is the game that was in the PR photo, of course! I'll want to see a second real one before I discount that entirely.

#42 1 year ago
Quoted from frobozz:

"Fully restored" (in his ad) - that's hilarious!
What is the serial number?
Don't discount the possibility that this is the game that was in the PR photo, of course! I'll want to see a second real one before I discount that entirely.

The S/N on this machine (per apron sticker) is 128837, which is quite different from the hybrid machines we've seen...

Yes I suppose that certainly could be a possibility...

#43 1 year ago

The IPSND has a single Travel Time back in that exact same serial range, so those could in fact be the earliest hand-built games, used for things like PR photos.

#44 1 year ago
Quoted from frobozz:

The IPSND has a single Travel Time back in that exact same serial range, so those could in fact be the earliest hand-built games, used for things like PR photos.

Oh wow, wouldn't that be cool! So we still need to find another true Summer Time to be certain they ever made more!...

1 month later
#45 1 year ago

Hello group! I haven't been on Pinside for a while and got the invite to join the discussion. I guess it's better late than never! Anyway I just finished reading the thread and can chime in on what my Summer Time has. Here's what I have to offer:

1) My backbox does not have labels identifying plugs for Replay / Extra Time, and Match On / Off.
2) I do not have a credit wheel in the backbox.
3) My manufacturer's label is marked Summer Time.
4) Serial Number 151568
5) Playfield has T-R-A-V-E-L and T-I-M-E labeled for the targets.

Let me know if there's any more info that could help this thread.

Have a GREAT day, Erik

#46 1 year ago
Quoted from Zap_Rowsdower:

Hello group! I haven't been on Pinside for a while and got the invite to join the discussion. I guess it's better late than never! Anyway I just finished reading the thread and can chime in on what my Summer Time has. Here's what I have to offer:
1) My backbox does not have labels identifying plugs for Replay / Extra Time, and Match On / Off.
2) I do not have a credit wheel in the backbox.
3) My manufacturer's label is marked Summer Time.
4) Serial Number 151568
5) Playfield has T-R-A-V-E-L and T-I-M-E labeled for the targets.
Let me know if there's any more info that could help this thread.
Have a GREAT day, Erik

Interesting, thanks for contributing, Eric! So yours sounds exactly like mine, a hybrid. Can you confirm your stepper unit in the back behaves like a match unit and not a 100K - 1M point stepper?

#47 1 year ago

How would I be able to tell if the stepper unit is behaving like a match unit and not a 100K - 1M point stepper?

I've included a picture of my backbox if that helps.

-Erik

IMG_3054 (resized).JPG
#48 1 year ago
Quoted from Zap_Rowsdower:

How would I be able to tell if the stepper unit is behaving like a match unit and not a 100K - 1M point stepper?
I've included a picture of my backbox if that helps.
-Erik
[quoted image]

If it increments during gameplay whenever a 100 point (or maybe 10 point) target or rollover is made, then it's wired as a match unit.

#49 1 year ago

Ok, just checked. Neither of the stepper units in the backbox advance when scoring occurs.

#50 1 year ago
Quoted from Zap_Rowsdower:

Ok, just checked. Neither of the stepper units in the backbox advance when scoring occurs.

That's because your unlabeled Match feature jones plugs are set to Match - Off. Check out my blue-tape labels in post #26, then you can move that plug and see how it behaves.

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