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(Topic ID: 266333)

Pinball Van tips: Transit v Promaster v Sprinter v T&C v ???


By Whysnow

6 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 35 posts
  • 14 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 months ago by Whysnow
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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    #1 6 months ago

    Looking forward towards my next vehicle. I like to research purchases like this for a while and plan for the future. My next vehicle will likely be a 4 year old car that I purchase in 3-4 years. So now is a good time to start researching as I can go test drive and look at things on a lot. Things I may want to buy in 3-4 years once they are done for the 1st owner. I tend to buy stuff coming off lease w 30-40k miles on them.

    I currently own a Subaru forester and love it.
    Things I would like in my next vehicle that my current one does not have:
    1. Ability to load 2 pins at once. Bonus points if can fit 3 or ideally 2 pins plus wife and 3 dogs (we like to road trip, camp, and pick up pins on our travels)
    2. Ability to load a 4x8 sheet of plywood. I have rental properties and this would be nice. I currently need to hook up the trailer which can be a PITA, esp in bad weather. I am fine with cramming them in standing up between front seats to fit, at an angle, whatever... just need to be able to fit a few sheets without too much chaos
    3. Ability to dump out the van innards, and retrofit for comfy camping for the occasional trip.

    I have the most experience with an 06 Town & Country with stow and go seats. You can fit 3 pins (PITA since you need to remove heads on 2). It is a comfy ride, but is obviously not designed for my uses.

    I am thinking of an actual utility van for my next vehicle. I dont want a beast.
    I would love to have a van that allows me to slide in a folded pin and stand it up on end. This allowing me to haul 2 with relative ease.
    I would love something that has a second row of seats (for dogs to ride on in normal day to day) but they can be removed or stowed when I need to haul more.
    I would love to have something that will do OK in snow and better MPG is great, but obv a constraint.

    Not looking at the big extended type work vans, but more of the standard (w likely a high roof for pins on backs?)

    Anyone gone down this path?
    Anyone have a utility van/transit/promaster/etc...?

    Would like to hear your thoughts, advice, info.
    What do you like, what do you wish it had?

    #2 6 months ago

    We have promasters at work. Plenty of height in the cargo area and floor space for a few pins.

    They have been reliable from a drivetrain standpoint. Just wish the drivers would stop running into them with the high roof

    #3 6 months ago
    Quoted from Slim64:

    We have promasters at work. Plenty of height in the cargo area and floor space for a few pins.
    They have been reliable from a drivetrain standpoint. Just wish the drivers would stop running into them with the high roof

    Do you know specifically which models you use?

    What are the most common issues for maintenance you experience?

    https://www.ramtrucks.com/ram-promaster/cargo.html
    If promaster, I would be looking at the 8ft w std roof I think. Unsure if really the height to stand a pi up in that one?

    #4 6 months ago

    1500 10ft and the high roof. 2017 and 2018 models.

    I see a lot of the door cables break for the latches and locks. But I think that's something unique to us since they get used constantly through the day. We really dont have issues with the engines and trans. (Yet) most of ours still have less than 20k miles on them.
    15867857997899084238414873767244 (resized).jpg

    #5 6 months ago

    I briefly looked into these vehicles recently as I wanted to buy a used one to convert into a stealth camper. My takeaways were:

    --The promaster has a very rigid and poorly adjusted seating position. Make sure you fit into it, and feel comfortable in one for long hauls before buying. They made the promaster with a diesel engine for a few years, but recently discontinued it. There are 2 generations of diesels. The first gens were garbage, I hear the second gens are much better. They have a better towing capacity, longer range, and promasters sold with the diesel have the tow package included as standard equipment.

    --The transit seems to be the most popular amongst campers. Likely because they're easy to find second hand. There are a lot of body styles available, and you can really pick and choose what you want here if you wait long enough. Seems like the good safe option, since there's an inherent distrust in FCA products for me (and if you look at the reliability of the promaster, it's definitely subpar).

    --The sprinter seems to have the longest lasting powertrain. Perusing the forums of these vehicles, and people get several hundreds of thousands of miles out of their sprinters. IIRC, they're also the most expensive option, but if longevity is what you'll be after, you probably can't go wrong here. Also, perhaps consider the Mercedes Metris. They have several variants that are closer in size to a consumer minivan, but have the utility and durability of a work/transit vehicle.

    My wildcard pick would be to find a school bus, or retired shuttle bus. Preferably one with a wheelchair lift. You can remove the seats inside, and the wheelchair lift can be used to haul games into the vehicle with literally zero effort. These seem to be super plentiful second hand, inexpensive, and crazy durable. Plus they have better creature comforts, like AC and heat that reaches the entire vehicle--not just the passenger cabin.

    #6 6 months ago

    Following as I'm in almost the exact same boat. I currently have a 26yo Ford Aerostar that has been amazing and stubbornly proving irreplaceable even though it's rapidly showing its age and deserves a well earned viking funeral. Mine is the SWB version yet easily fits 2 pins (sometimes 3, and maybe even 4 of the right era if I got creative?) as well as 4x8's without much fuss. It's basic enough that I've moved concrete and mulch and rented machines and all kinds of stuff for my rental property. But... yeah, borrowed time is an understatement; it needs to be replaced like 4 yesterdays ago.

    I'm firmly on Team Van because low load floors are awesome: I can easily load pins in and out by myself. So could my wife if it comes to that. Forget needing lifts and ramps and help and other theatrics required with a truck and then being exposed to the weather for your troubles. Unfortunately everything "comparable" from this century has too many "creature comforts" in the side walls that significantly reduce practical hauling space.

    I'm not opposed to commercial-style vans on one hand, but I have a family and it would be nice to have a safer and reasonably comfortable multipurpose van, not an industrial metal box. I also park outside since my garage is filled with car projects, and I'd rather not be "the guy with the conspicuously ugly white pedo van in his driveway".

    Anyway, to your specific points:

    As a Ford-biased person I considered the Transit Connect for a bit, but they have significant faults IMO. One is the interior volume on the 2014+ just isn't "boxy" enough to suit moving more than one pin easily, and maybe never more than two - I was shocked how stupidly small they actually are. The other is that it's basically a Ford Focus turned into a van - not a good idea when you see how poorly Focuses hold up *without* getting the crap kicked out of them as a van.

    The commercial Transit and the Ram ProMaster seem like better options. I know both are generally considered reliable, from my research I haven't heard of too many common horror stories. Sprinters seem to be the gold standard. My wife's agency has some that have held up well but man, those things are HUGE.

    I see the full-size Nissan NV as a possible candidate just from its boxy looks, and the standard truck-like front end would make service easy. But I've not seriously researched them yet. It looks like it could pull a decent trailer as well.

    If you enjoy working on cars you can open your options a bit. I may end up buying a newer minivan and stripping the interior behind the 2nd row to suit my purposes. Or another Aerostar that isn't falling apart and might be appreciable as a "classic" like a forward-cab Econoline or VW bus, ha ha, but would prefer something with modern safety equipment.

    #7 6 months ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    I currently own a Subaru forester and love it.

    Can't really help with the van question, but I am thinking of getting a Forester for my next vehicle. How does it work for hauling one pin at a time? Have you found the acceleration to be adequate? Thanks.

    #8 6 months ago

    I'd stick with a minivan. SWMBO 2010 Honda Odyssey is still going strong and much to my delight she still wants to keep it forever!

    The other answer is a Honda Ridgeline. Plenty of traveling room, drives like a comfortable crossover, can haul pins and a trailer.

    #9 6 months ago

    I use my wife’s 2015 Toyota Sienna for pin hauling. Can easily fit 2 pins with room for extras and is a great everyday vehicle. Rides great, all the options and good gas mileage. A more comfortable daily driver than the commercial grade vans. Also available all wheel drive version too

    #10 6 months ago
    Quoted from Gorgar123:

    Can't really help with the van question, but I am thinking of getting a Forester for my next vehicle. How does it work for hauling one pin at a time? Have you found the acceleration to be adequate? Thanks.

    Fantastic! Only thing of note is some years have an odd hump in the seat fold down area. This makes it a super PITA for sliding in pins and some taller stuff (when folded) will be super snug.

    My 2012 is easy peazy and wll even fit a NIB Stern in the box.

    #11 6 months ago

    Can those of you with modern minivans expand on the "fits 2+ pins" a bit?

    For example, pins though the early 80's with removable backboxes, load and fit quite a bit differently than later ones ( Sys11's and up have to go "ying-yang" style if side by side). Some people "stack" pins while for others, that's a horrible thought... Some have to remove the entire second seat row, some might not, etc...

    #12 6 months ago
    Quoted from mbaumle:

    I briefly looked into these vehicles recently as I wanted to buy a used one to convert into a stealth camper. My takeaways were:
    --The promaster has a very rigid and poorly adjusted seating position. Make sure you fit into it, and feel comfortable in one for long hauls before buying. They made the promaster with a diesel engine for a few years, but recently discontinued it. There are 2 generations of diesels. The first gens were garbage, I hear the second gens are much better. They have a better towing capacity, longer range, and promasters sold with the diesel have the tow package included as standard equipment.
    --The transit seems to be the most popular amongst campers. Likely because they're easy to find second hand. There are a lot of body styles available, and you can really pick and choose what you want here if you wait long enough. Seems like the good safe option, since there's an inherent distrust in FCA products for me (and if you look at the reliability of the promaster, it's definitely subpar).
    --The sprinter seems to have the longest lasting powertrain. Perusing the forums of these vehicles, and people get several hundreds of thousands of miles out of their sprinters. IIRC, they're also the most expensive option, but if longevity is what you'll be after, you probably can't go wrong here. Also, perhaps consider the Mercedes Metris. They have several variants that are closer in size to a consumer minivan, but have the utility and durability of a work/transit vehicle.
    My wildcard pick would be to find a school bus, or retired shuttle bus. Preferably one with a wheelchair lift. You can remove the seats inside, and the wheelchair lift can be used to haul games into the vehicle with literally zero effort. These seem to be super plentiful second hand, inexpensive, and crazy durable. Plus they have better creature comforts, like AC and heat that reaches the entire vehicle--not just the passenger cabin.

    Godd tips on the ride of the promaster.

    I would like the sprinter small style but the $$$$$$$$ are too much to justify for me I think.

    Transit commercial style is what I keep coming back to. The Promaster has its perks also it seems.

    I honesltly keep wanting a Town and Country because it is super versatile; problem is that it really is more on the family side of the equation and I want something a bit more on the work side of the equation (just slightly).

    Old Aerostars are the bomb. That box is perfect for both IMHO.

    #13 6 months ago

    We have a 03 sprinter with 350k on it. Would definately reccomend to anyone needing a lot of pin hauler. We can fit probably 8 or 9 pins in it as it has the long and tall options. Also super great for dump runs and home projects. Not sure what engine and trans Mercades uses now, but the 5 banger diesel in ours is a very reliable unit. They are also pretty easy to fix generally. Definately very basic/utilitarian and not something I would likely want as a family vehicle though.

    #14 6 months ago

    I have a 2015 Transit 150 been very happy with it. It is the standard length but the mid-roof. At 5 foot 10 I can stand up without bumping my head. It's has the base engine as I just wanted a box with wheels and it gets about 17 miles to the gallon and the power is more than adequate even fully loaded. The new generation has a new base engine and the transmission with even more speeds than mine so I would expect the mileage to be better. The only thing I wish I would have done was purchased the mid-length van. The doors on the transit are ingenious for the mid length. they swing all the way around and are held open by magnets on the sides of the van or you can latch them and they lock at 90 degrees so the wind won't grab them.the thing drives like a car all of my friends who borrow it are intimidated initially but can't believe how easy it drives. Attached is my colleagues new van, the one I should have purchased.

    IMG_20200413_122120216_HDR (resized).jpgIMG_20200413_122142740_HDR (resized).jpg
    #15 6 months ago

    great info!

    I assume you can easily stand up a pin on its back? and then stagger 3 (not wide enough for side by side) down the length and fit them all?

    #16 6 months ago

    I fit two in my van without any trouble and room to spare. I have not had the good fortune to get three pins at once. On that Transit I pictured I measured from the farthest points back to that cargo bulkhead and have just shy of 11 feet. If you are not between the wheel wells which is about 50 in, you get 57 in of workable space you might indeed be able to get to side by side using the front sliding door if you are able to reverse the machines and have it to where the heads are on opposite sides to save some space. I've never tried it because I've never had the necessity.

    #17 6 months ago

    One advantage I've only recently noted in cargo vans - and maybe the single advantage a pickup has over a minivan in this application - is the bulkhead. Because I can't imagine 300+ lbs of pinball (or whatever) slamming into the back the driver's seat in a collision is a good thing. But a bulkhead-equipped van pretty much eliminates any "family / fun" usage, and can make the cab feel claustrophobic.

    I've always wedged whatever I could between the machines and the seats to remove the ability for the machines to slide and gain momentum, but there's only so much you can improvise and it's not perfect. Do the cargo vans have any moveable bulkhead options?

    (Arrgh and once again, dammit LOL the Aerostar has a card: beefy tie-downs in the subfloor that the seats latch to, which could possibly be used to strap loads)

    #18 6 months ago

    this is the best deal I have found while hunting

    2016 Mercedes-Benz Sprinter Standard Roof w/144" w 50k miles

    Asking 24,500
    This is the 4 speed desiel.
    Appears easy to keep one row of seats and remove the others.

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    #19 6 months ago
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    #20 6 months ago

    Wow, I didn't even know Sprinters were made in a basic passenger version. I've seen up-fitted luxury conversions, but not basic "Club Wagon" equivalents. That thing must be a unicorn!

    I attempted some research on the Nissan NV yesterday... that thing can tow over 8,000 lbs! But "passenger" versions are also like unicorns. Bah.

    #21 6 months ago

    As former Mopar tech here is what I can tell you about Sprinter and the Dodge pro-master.

    Sprinter: Don't buy unless you can afford Benz parts. Otis guys went through turbochargers like popcorn and got rid of the whole Benz fleet due to the outrageous maintenance costs. They have gone to the Ford Transit while reliable they now complain anemic in the power dept.

    Pro-master: The Dodge Pentastar V6 drivetrain is practically bullet proof and well sorted out. Friend has one that he uses for locksmith shop and with tons of stuff onboard flogs it without mercy daily and it has not giving him any problems aside from what I'll note below.

    Rear brakes are notorious for being noisy and the coolant heat exchanger known to leak time to time. My wife's was changed out under recall and has been trouble free for 70,000 miles. Revised one much better design.

    #22 6 months ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    Sprinter: Don't buy unless you can afford Benz parts.

    my biggest concern of buying one.

    They seem to hold up forever, but I can only imagine that service is insanely expensive.

    #23 6 months ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    my biggest concern of buying one.
    They seem to hold up forever, but I can only imagine that service is insanely expensive.

    Yes, parts are very expensive. We just replaced the high pressure fuel pump in ours. We bought a rebuilt one from someone on the forums for $450. A new one from Mercedes was over $1300, not including instillation.

    #24 6 months ago

    Chevy Express...just an idea

    Last of the traditional "American" vans; virtually unchanged for 20+ years except for updated drivetrains that are typically a single generation behind their contemporary pickup brethren i.e. proven super low maintenance/great performance bulletproof "ls" based 5.3's/6.0's. vs current "lt" based offerings. Can be configured in a multitude of ways (my favorite being 2 captains chairs up front with a bench behind, and then either a cage or open floor plan behind). Can get Quigley 4x4 converted for not much more if that's your thing (I think it's a "factory" option at this point). Super simple, and decent economy. Inconspicuous/blends in. Cheap to purchase and maintain. Easily and readily serviced anywhere, and no hard parts to find. People forget how good they can tow as well.

    We have a number of them in the fleet at work, from 2005 to current vintages; they take a beating and are rarely on the lift for anything other than routine service. Real workhorses.

    Not "quirky" in literally any way, which may be a "negative" for the "I have to be an individual/weirdo at any cost over being a conformist" crowd, lol.

    If I didn't have a newish Silverado that I am VERY satisfied with, I'd buy a windowless Express 2500, with vinyl floors, in charcoal gray (color blends in and doesn't stand out either, but doesn't scream "free candy inside!") with a 6.0. First "mod" would be to block off the rear hvac vents and make an easily removable "bulkhead" behind the second row to increase heating/cooling efficiency in the cabin when used as general transportation. Maybe add some 1/2" insulation to the interior to make it more comfortable when camping/sleeping overnight. There are mods/customization options galore, usually very cheap.

    Seriously, check them out.

    #25 6 months ago
    Quoted from Grandnational007:

    Chevy Express...just an idea
    Last of the traditional "American" vans; virtually unchanged for 20+ years except for updated drivetrains that are typically a single generation behind their contemporary pickup brethren i.e. proven super low maintenance/great performance bulletproof "ls" based 5.3's/6.0's. vs current "lt" based offerings. Can be configured in a multitude of ways (my favorite being 2 captains chairs up front with a bench behind, and then either a cage or open floor plan behind). Can get Quigley 4x4 converted for not much more if that's your thing (I think it's a "factory" option at this point). Super simple, and decent economy. Inconspicuous/blends in. Cheap to purchase and maintain. Easily and readily serviced anywhere, and no hard parts to find. People forget how good they can tow as well.
    We have a number of them in the fleet at work, from 2005 to current vintages; they take a beating and are rarely on the lift for anything other than routine service. Real workhorses.
    Not "quirky" in literally any way, which may be a "negative" for the "I have to be an individual/weirdo at any cost over being a conformist" crowd, lol.
    If I didn't have a newish Silverado that I am VERY satisfied with, I'd buy a windowless Express 2500, with vinyl floors, in charcoal gray (color blends in and doesn't stand out either, but doesn't scream "free candy inside!") with a 6.0. First "mod" would be to block off the rear hvac vents and make an easily removable "bulkhead" behind the second row to increase heating/cooling efficiency in the cabin when used as general transportation. Maybe add some 1/2" insulation to the interior to make it more comfortable when camping/sleeping overnight. There are mods/customization options galore, usually very cheap.
    Seriously, check them out.

    thanks!

    great idea that I had not previously considered.
    I will check them out also

    #26 6 months ago
    Quoted from Grandnational007:

    Chevy Express...just an idea
    Last of the traditional "American" vans; virtually unchanged for 20+ years except for updated drivetrains that are typically a single generation behind their contemporary pickup brethren i.e. proven super low maintenance/great performance bulletproof "ls" based 5.3's/6.0's. vs current "lt" based offerings. Can be configured in a multitude of ways (my favorite being 2 captains chairs up front with a bench behind, and then either a cage or open floor plan behind). Can get Quigley 4x4 converted for not much more if that's your thing (I think it's a "factory" option at this point). Super simple, and decent economy. Inconspicuous/blends in. Cheap to purchase and maintain. Easily and readily serviced anywhere, and no hard parts to find. People forget how good they can tow as well.
    We have a number of them in the fleet at work, from 2005 to current vintages; they take a beating and are rarely on the lift for anything other than routine service. Real workhorses.
    Not "quirky" in literally any way, which may be a "negative" for the "I have to be an individual/weirdo at any cost over being a conformist" crowd, lol.
    If I didn't have a newish Silverado that I am VERY satisfied with, I'd buy a windowless Express 2500, with vinyl floors, in charcoal gray (color blends in and doesn't stand out either, but doesn't scream "free candy inside!") with a 6.0. First "mod" would be to block off the rear hvac vents and make an easily removable "bulkhead" behind the second row to increase heating/cooling efficiency in the cabin when used as general transportation. Maybe add some 1/2" insulation to the interior to make it more comfortable when camping/sleeping overnight. There are mods/customization options galore, usually very cheap.
    Seriously, check them out.

    question... ever loaded a pin? Interior dimensions seem "almost" capable of sliding in a pin on its belly and then tipping it on its back once inside

    i.e. door opening clearance not high enough but inside cargo height clearance is????

    #27 6 months ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    question... ever loaded a pin? Interior dimensions seem "almost" capable of sliding in a pin on its belly and then tipping it on its back once inside
    i.e. door opening clearance not high enough but inside cargo height clearance is????

    Not sure, as I've never actually moved a pin in one, but I would guess so, easily. If I wasn't working remote, I'd run outside and measure it.

    One other thing to consider, you can easily rent one from uhaul/enterprise for a day or two to see if you like it...

    #28 6 months ago

    I own an Express. Love it, much better drivetrain than a Ford. That being said you can not flip a pin on its back unless you have an extended roof.
    My friend has an extended roof and we can flip a pin in his no problem.
    Comfortably I can fit two pins and have a rear seat too or remove the rear seat and house three pins.

    #29 6 months ago

    My two cents, I own a Transit and love it! It’s a passenger model so I just took out all the seats. Since it weighs about 150 lbs heavier than a regular van, here in Pa., it doesn’t require an emissions inspection. Here’s my take: 1) It drives like a sports car and 2) It has unbelievable power. I mean this thing keeps pulling like a locomotive. I’d recommend driving these before you buy but the Ford is the schnizz-lit for ride and driving pleasure. One word of caution about the Ford’s brakes is it can be a job (read expensive) to replace the rotors so you want to avoid waiting too long when brake pad replacement is required. Good luck with your choice.

    #30 6 months ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    question... ever loaded a pin? Interior dimensions seem "almost" capable of sliding in a pin on its belly and then tipping it on its back once inside
    i.e. door opening clearance not high enough but inside cargo height clearance is????

    Whysnow, I have a transit 250 that I’ll be picking up a pin from you this weekend in, you can definitely slide a pin in and stand up, I’m guessing it’d hold 4-6 pins this way, smooth ride too.

    #31 6 months ago
    Quoted from Jaybird815:

    Whysnow, I have a transit 250 that I’ll be picking up a pin from you this weekend in, you can definitely slide a pin in and stand up, I’m guessing it’d hold 4-6 pins this way, smooth ride too.

    sweet!

    #32 6 months ago
    Quoted from Pdxmonkey:

    I own an Express. Love it, much better drivetrain than a Ford. That being said you can not flip a pin on its back unless you have an extended roof.
    My friend has an extended roof and we can flip a pin in his no problem.
    Comfortably I can fit two pins and have a rear seat too or remove the rear seat and house three pins.

    What is the configuration for this? side by side, with heads on, coffin style?

    Quoted from Jaybird815:

    Whysnow, I have a transit 250 that I’ll be picking up a pin from you this weekend in, you can definitely slide a pin in and stand up, I’m guessing it’d hold 4-6 pins this way, smooth ride too.

    Is your the extended roof?

    #33 6 months ago
    Quoted from Whysnow:

    What is the configuration for this? side by side, with heads on, coffin style?

    Is your the extended roof?

    I think it’s just the standard, you can also slide a pin in the side door and it’ll fit width wise, pretty versatile pin hauler, definitely fits a sheet of plywood lying flat.

    #34 6 months ago

    I load in the side and just fit both across horizontal. Super easy. If I remove the rear seat to add a third the third loads in through the back. The wheel wells prevent it from loading horizontal in the rear. One or two pins it is fantastic. My van is close to 200k with no repairs other than regular maintenance. My experiences with anything Ford is a rebuilt tranny around 120k. However if you want a vehicle that can fit more I would consider something different or one with an extended roof.

    #35 6 months ago

    thanks all!

    I am for sure going to research these a bit more!
    It seems like it could be the perfect solution.

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