(Topic ID: 261358)

Transistor readings?

By Huskerfan

4 years ago


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  • 22 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by Huskerfan
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#1 4 years ago

I have a Ripley's and the right slingshot coil is stuck open. I believe I traced it back to the Q18 transistor which controls that coil. I replaced the transistor but now when I turn the machine on it just blows the transistor. (twice!) Things I checked:

F7 fuse is ok (as are all the fuses)
Coil checks out at 4.1 ohms (same as left slingshot which is working)
I replaced the diode on the coil every time so it's new
I made sure I hooked up the coil and diode the same order as the left sling

Questions I have are: Is there something else upstream I should be checking?

When I put my MM on that row of transistors they all register about 860 ohms (except for Q18 which is about 775 so that's the outlier) So, I assume about 860 are normal readings. How can I tell for sure what are normal readings for all those transistors and all the other transistors on my board? (I have the manual)

Thank you for your help.
Gary

#2 4 years ago

Hi Gary did you test that coil in coil test to see if it fires?Is that coil locking on when you power up the game?

#3 4 years ago

Here’s another way to test transistor
To test transistor power off the game set meter to continuity,Place black probe onto ground(grey metal strap).With red probe touch the tab of transistor,If you hear a beep from meter that means transistor is bad/shorted

#4 4 years ago
Quoted from Huskerfan:

Things I checked:

How about traces on the circuit board ? From transistor leg, up towards the transistor body not the solder point, to another solder spot away from the repair area ?

I had a LOTR blowing a flipper transistor and found a cracked trace causing an instant blow out.

LTG : )

#5 4 years ago

The diode — what do you mean by ‘same order’ as other sling? Band Side of diode is towards the high voltage lug/wire, yeah? (assuming transistors ground the coil when fired). Even if incorrectly orientated it shouldn’t short until the sling fired but just checking.

You can’t get much out of testing resistance of legs on a transistor other than that if you get a closed o resistance circuit between any of the 3 legs when its isolated from a circuit it’s toast.

Does sound like it could be a board short.. weird the fuse isn’t blowing though — if you had a high voltage short to ground on a board I’d expect the short still present with transistor removed from circuit and the fuse should be blowing...

#6 4 years ago

"Hi Gary did you test that coil in coil test to see if it fires?Is that coil locking on when you power up the game?"
It locks as soon as I power the game on.

I don't really know how to check the traces so I might need professional help if that's the case.

Diode: There are 2 brown wires on the left sling on the band side of diode. I made sure to hook coil up the exact same way. Brown wires on band side of diode.

I'm going to disconnect the coil completely and replace the transistor today. (waiting on transistors to arrive) If I do this how can I be sure the transistor didn't blow without hooking up that coil? (trying to isolate the problem to the coil) If the transistor blows will it show a lower ohm reading than the surrounding transistors?

#7 4 years ago

If u blow the transistor you can tell easily just by testing continuity between legs of the transistor. If any legs are shorted together it’s blown. The leftmost leg is usually the gate (which is the trigger on the switch, essentially). The other 2 legs allow the circuit to complete. The gate shouldn’t be tied to the other legs, and the legs shouldn’t be tied together unless the gate is triggered.

#8 4 years ago
Quoted from Mbecker:

If u blow the transistor you can tell easily just by testing continuity between legs of the transistor. If any legs are shorted together it’s blown. The leftmost leg is usually the gate (which is the trigger on the switch, essentially). The other 2 legs allow the circuit to complete. The gate shouldn’t be tied to the other legs, and the legs shouldn’t be tied together unless the gate is triggered.

Thanks for trying to help but I'm confused. The solder joint will actually move if the transistor blows? or does something inside the transistor go wrong?
Yes, I get that if the legs are touching it will show continuity. I get that part. Back to my original post, all the transistors along that row show a consistent ohm reading except for this one. (Q18) Wouldn't that mean this transistor is bad?

#9 4 years ago

Look at the above post#3 about transistor

#10 4 years ago
Quoted from pinmike:

Look at the above post#3 about transistor

Did this on all the transistors and did not hear beep back from any of them.

Leads me to think some where near the coil is bad. Transistors good, fuse good. It's gotta be back at the coil?

#11 4 years ago
Quoted from Huskerfan:

Thanks for trying to help but I'm confused. The solder joint will actually move if the transistor blows? or does something inside the transistor go wrong?
Yes, I get that if the legs are touching it will show continuity. I get that part. Back to my original post, all the transistors along that row show a consistent ohm reading except for this one. (Q18) Wouldn't that mean this transistor is bad?

No— a transistor is almost always good or bad. If it’s good - you won’t see continuity when you use your MM and put a probe on one leg of the transistor and the other probe on another leg. If it’s bad, the transistor shorts internally — the semiconductor inside becomes damaged and it will short closed (internally) between the at least some of the legs..

Ohm readings on the transistor isn’t telling you much, esp. when it’s part of a circuit.

#12 4 years ago
Quoted from Mbecker:

No— a transistor is almost always good or bad. If it’s good - you won’t see continuity when you use your MM and put a probe on one leg of the transistor and the other probe on another leg. If it’s bad, the transistor shorts internally — the semiconductor inside becomes damaged and it will short closed (internally) between the at least some of the legs..
Ohm readings on the transistor isn’t telling you much, esp. when it’s part of a circuit.

ok, thanks man. I think I have bigger problems. I ran the "Dr." program because now none of my coils or flashers are working and it said to check the red light on L201 50v and it is not lit. Furthermore, the fix they say is to replace the board. Now, I guess I'm in the market for a new board. Anyone know where I can get a good deal on one?

#13 4 years ago
Quoted from Mbecker:

No— a transistor is almost always good or bad. If it’s good - you won’t see continuity when you use your MM and put a probe on one leg of the transistor and the other probe on another leg. If it’s bad, the transistor shorts internally — the semiconductor inside becomes damaged and it will short closed (internally) between the at least some of the legs.

For BJT transistors ... this is not true (in my experience). A "bad" reading always means the transistor will not function correctly. A "good" reading does not mean the transistor will function correctly. In others you may get false positive measurements.

For FET transistors ... I don't have much experience but the experience I've had indicates the same as BJT. I've measured transistors as "good" but they don't work because when replaced with another new ("good") transistor the problem gets fixed.

Quoted from Huskerfan:

... the red light on L201 50v and it is not lit.

Make sure the coin door is closed if there is a high voltage interlock switch installed.

Quoted from Huskerfan:

Furthermore, the fix they say is to replace the board.

The board can almost certainly be fixed. If you're not experienced enough you can send it off to board repair person. There are a few reputable repair people on this site.

If you decide to replace the board I believe you want Rottendog SDB004. You can confirm this for yourself by visiting http://rottendog.us/sdb004.html to make sure.

#14 4 years ago

Ripley's has a high power lockout switch on the coin door. If you're in diagnostics, the coin door is open and high power (both 50v and 20v) is disabled. If you push in the switch, which is near the door hinge, led 201 will light.

You need to determine if your problem is on the board or somewhere else. With *power off*, remove connector J3 from the driver board. Test continuity (diode mode on meter) between pin 3 on the female side of the connector and ground. You can use one of the board screws for ground. If you get continuity (meter buzzes), your problem is in the wiring or playfield. If the meter doesn't buzz, test pin 3 on the board to ground. If that buzzes, your problem is on the board. Pin 1 on connector J3 should be labeled on the board.

The coil charts in the manual shows that Q18 connects to connector J3 pin 3. The coin door schematic in the manual shows the high power lockout switch. Narrow down your problem. At worst, you may need someone to repair your board, but you likely don't need a new one.

#15 4 years ago
Quoted from phishrace:

Ripley's has a high power lockout switch on the coin door. If you're in diagnostics, the coin door is open and high power (both 50v and 20v) is disabled. If you push in the switch, which is near the door hinge, led 201 will light.
You need to determine if your problem is on the board or somewhere else. With *power off*, remove connector J3 from the driver board. Test continuity (diode mode on meter) between pin 3 on the female side of the connector and ground. You can use one of the board screws for ground. If you get continuity (meter buzzes), your problem is in the wiring or playfield. If the meter doesn't buzz, test pin 3 on the board to ground. If that buzzes, your problem is on the board. Pin 1 on connector J3 should be labeled on the board.
The coil charts in the manual shows that Q18 connects to connector J3 pin 3. The coin door schematic in the manual shows the high power lockout switch. Narrow down your problem. At worst, you may need someone to repair your board, but you likely don't need a new one.

Thanks guys. I just get frustrated some times. I'll try these.

#16 4 years ago
Quoted from phishrace:

Ripley's has a high power lockout switch on the coin door. If you're in diagnostics, the coin door is open and high power (both 50v and 20v) is disabled. If you push in the switch, which is near the door hinge, led 201 will light.
You need to determine if your problem is on the board or somewhere else. With *power off*, remove connector J3 from the driver board. Test continuity (diode mode on meter) between pin 3 on the female side of the connector and ground. You can use one of the board screws for ground. If you get continuity (meter buzzes), your problem is in the wiring or playfield. If the meter doesn't buzz, test pin 3 on the board to ground. If that buzzes, your problem is on the board. Pin 1 on connector J3 should be labeled on the board.
The coil charts in the manual shows that Q18 connects to connector J3 pin 3. The coin door schematic in the manual shows the high power lockout switch. Narrow down your problem. At worst, you may need someone to repair your board, but you likely don't need a new one.

Finally some positive results! It's actually J7 so I took off cable and got buzz when I tested pin 3 on the board. Also, when I pressed in the high power lockout switches the 50v light stayed not lit. (did not light up). So, something is wrong with the board.

#17 4 years ago

J7 pin 3 supplies power to the right sling. J3 pin 3 is the ground connection for the right sling. As I mentioned, this is shown in the coil charts in the manual.

If you removed J3 and pin 3 has continuity with ground, you have a problem with the 20 volt circuit on the board. Bridge rectifier 2 supplies power to the 20 volt circuit. Test the bridge using the procedure linked below.

https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Using_a_Multimeter_to_Test_the_Bridge_Rectifier_and_Capacitors

Don't worry about led 201 just yet. Narrow down your 20 volt problem first. Led 201 could just be bad, but first things first.

#18 4 years ago
Quoted from phishrace:

J7 pin 3 supplies power to the right sling. J3 pin 3 is the ground connection for the right sling. As I mentioned, this is shown in the coil charts in the manual.
If you removed J3 and pin 3 has continuity with ground, you have a problem with the 20 volt circuit on the board. Bridge rectifier 2 supplies power to the 20 volt circuit. Test the bridge using the procedure linked below.
https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Using_a_Multimeter_to_Test_the_Bridge_Rectifier_and_Capacitors
Don't worry about led 201 just yet. Narrow down your 20 volt problem first. Led 201 could just be bad, but first things first.

Thanks for the help! There was not a connector on J3 so I didn't think it was used. I did try continuity and it did not beep. J3 is labeled "Aux in Port" on the board if that helps. J2 is labeled "Aux out Port". J2 did not beep either and J2 does have a connector on it

#19 4 years ago

My mistake. J7 pin 3 completes the ground side of the right sling circuit. J7 pin 1 supplies power to the right sling. You can see this on page 101 of the manual as well as in the coil charts.

If J7 pin 3 shows continuity with ground, Q18 or something else in that circuit is bad. If you've already replaced Q18 and the replacement is testing good, I would recommend sending the board out for repair. Testing the other components in that circuit sometimes requires removing them from the circuit by unsoldering one side. I use and recommend Rob Anthony for board repair. Rob can also test your 50 volt circuit. Lockwhenlit.com

#20 4 years ago
Quoted from phishrace:

My mistake. J7 pin 3 completes the ground side of the right sling circuit. J7 pin 1 supplies power to the right sling. You can see this on page 101 of the manual as well as in the coil charts.
If J7 pin 3 shows continuity with ground, Q18 or something else in that circuit is bad. If you've already replaced Q18 and the replacement is testing good, I would recommend sending the board out for repair. Testing the other components in that circuit sometimes requires removing them from the circuit by unsoldering one side. I use and recommend Rob Anthony for board repair. Rob can also test your 50 volt circuit. Lockwhenlit.com

Thank you very much again! So, if I replace Q18 and I do not get a beep from J7 pin 3 that means the problem resides with the coil? Which obviously is in the play field. I have a couple local guys that can look at the board. I live in a pretty big city.

#21 4 years ago

You said you already replaced Q18. Did it test bad or did you just shotgun it assuming the transistor is bad?

You need to test Q18. If it tests good (like the others near it) and J7 pin 3 is still showing continuity to ground, a resistor or something else in the circuit is bad.

You can check for shorts on the playfield by testing the female side of J7 pin 3 to ground. If it buzzes, you have a short somewhere in the wiring or playfield. I suspect your problem is on the board rather than elsewhere.

#22 4 years ago
Quoted from phishrace:

You said you already replaced Q18. Did it test bad or did you just shotgun it assuming the transistor is bad?
You need to test Q18. If it tests good (like the others near it) and J7 pin 3 is still showing continuity to ground, a resistor or something else in the circuit is bad.
You can check for shorts on the playfield by testing the female side of J7 pin 3 to ground. If it buzzes, you have a short somewhere in the wiring or playfield. I suspect your problem is on the board rather than elsewhere.

I guess I didn't tell the whole history. The coil tested bad so I replaced the coil. It still popped and stayed stuck so I looked up that it was probably Q18. I had someone replace Q18 and when I turned on machine it still popped. Thinking it could be a bad diode in the coil, I replaced the diode and I had him replace Q18 again only to have it pop again.

I call my self a jack of all trades, master of none. My soldering skills are average but I believe I have the proper equipment now to replace Q18 on my own.

Yes, Q18 currently tests out about 775 ohms and the rest of that row tests out at 860 ohms so I figured Q18 was bad.

I did test female side and it did not beep but I also have the coil disconnected from the right slingshot so that's why.

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