No I mean I'm going to put up a Youtube video of me playing so you guys can see what I am dealing with

I've hit the "roadblock" a few times. It's a drag, totally kills the momentum of the game, especially if you get close to finishing OP multiball, fail, then have to hit Optimus like 8 or 10 times to get back into multiball.

Conversely, I've also completed OP multiball a couple of times and it's SUPER satisfying!

I'm picking up an Autobot tonight. Finally bit the bullet betting on the code update.

Scott

There are only 4 modes on each side of TF, so the modes have to require more shots to complete them than the modes on LOTR or TSPP. Also, those are the two games with perhaps the best code in the history of pinball and always seem to be the games TF is compared to!

Admittedly, I've been perplexed by the lack of use of the Ironhide and Starscream 'shots' for their modes....but really, most games' modes are just about hitting all the lit arrows....

I think those that regularly are hitting this "roadblock" need to play other games some (if you play the same table all night, every night you'll get the shots down) and/or set up their TF harder (tight tilt, open outlanes).....I play with some damned good players regularly and none of us frequent this roadblock. Yes, we've been there, and past it some...but surely not regularly.

Got ya.

THIS is the problem with the game. The roadblock is the HALFWAY point. Your solution is to set it up HARDER!?!? F that. Multiball progression is the only thing that saves this game and gives you a chance at passing the halfway point. Getting to Cybertron will still be a challenge...progression save will just get rid of the frustrating and annoying repetition factor.

To see all of the software on one game, yes, I agree with you Rarehero. I've just always viewed TF as a "play one side OR the other" type of game and never really consider Cybertron as reachable (like I don't consider the SDMEWM in TSPP reachable). I play multi-player games regularly and therefore prefer shorter ball times than games like LOTR or TSPP (even though both are super one-player games).

I'm not against multiball progression at all on TF, I just feel if people are hitting this roadblock everyday then they are either world-class players (and therefore blow up all machines) or need to set the game up tougher (or play some other games from time to time too).

Here's the thing, though...ball time is a physical thing...not a software thing. If you're going to drain, you're going to drain...however if you're doing well and not draining, the most annoying thing in the world is playing Optimus Multiball over and over and over...and it taking more hits to the nuts to start it each time you fail. A physical challenge will always be there...but modern games are much more fun when the "story" is progressing. After getting fed up with it, I 'cheated' and got passed the halfway point - instead of Optimus' monologues, Sentinel Prime starts his speeches and it's pretty cool. Leonard Nimoy's in this F'ing game but NO ONE would know that!!! Multiball Progression = SPOCK!!!!!!

=no more search for spock.

Yep, agreed, except the game owner's set up determines how drainable any game is. I just set up my TF really tough from the start, like I do with most of my games, and the roadblock isn't much of an issue. But, if someone wanted an easier physical set up to make the end-game reasonably obtainable, then the multi-ball progression would help. Choosing Decepticons at the start of the game helps too. I've just been offering a counterpoint to the "sell TF if you hit the roadblock regularly" thought process.

Again, I see TF as a "play one side or the other" game. If approached that way, a tough set up is required. Take an "easy" game, say like Scared Stiff, and set it up tough and it isn't so easy any more (in fact it becomes a pretty good tournament game). To do this with a game like TSPP wouldn't make sense as you wouldn't see any of the software!

I have always maintained if a player is hitting the roadblock "regularly", then he is skilled enough to get the associated SJP with the faction. You cannot flail and win all the other modes-it takes skill. So if one keeps getting 4 solids and no SJP over and over, then something is amiss with the player (sorry it cannot be purely the lack of mb progression).

Regular implies one can pretty much do it at will assuming no house balls/games. I'd love to see the stats of what "regular" means. To me, regular means if they play basically any TFLE set up like the one known how to play, within a game or 2 of learning how that machine reacts, it will be reached.

So I think the roadblock truth is along the lines that the roadblock happens more often than one would like, or they had a few breakout games with all modes done and were frustrated because they were so close to SP and had to play OP a zillion times.

But regularly 4 solids and no SJP? Come on, no way. The skill required to do that is not consistent with constant failure to reach the SJP regardless of mb progression.

If some reading says "yes way", ask youself how can you be so good at all the other stuff "regularly" and rarely get the SJP? Seems the answer is work on your MB technique, not blame George and Lonnie for no progression. It is doable, but yes, hard as hell and frustrating at times.

In summary, I feel it can't be both ways. Someone that good to reach the roadblock at will, has already reached SP and the days it did not happen-that's pinball. If you have been close but denied, get back in there! IT WILL HAPPEN! JOIN US!

Bottom line-I totally understand the roadblock is frustrating. Once progression is added, attitudes will probably change

It's just the nature of that multiball. Hit a lit shot - then only ONE shot becomes lit. In a multiball, sometimes it's very hard to hit that one shot...especially if it's the All-Spark and it BOUNCES OUT! Glarghghgh. OK, so - yes..."play better"...the problem is you must COMPLETE that mode or else you can't play half the game...it's just super duper bullshit ...buuuut, they're fixing it, so yay lol

I'm not good enough to even get to the roadblock, so I guess that's why I still like the game.

Whaaaaat? Leonard Nimoy's voice is in this game. I must really suck. Over a 1000 games and I swear I never heard this. Yikes

He starts blabbering after the halfway point.

Yup, you have to get to "Sentinel Prime" (Autobots Roll Out/All Hail Megatron) after completing all modes on one side and switching to the other.

Don't feel so bad I have never done it either. Completing an entire side on default settings is a feat in itself really hoping for the modes to be easier and more progressive with the new code. This is one of the reasons I love TRON I can get to sea of simulation, but getting to portal is a challenge. I like that because its still rewarding to get to sea of simulation and moves the game forward.

TF LE DECEPTICON is awesome and will be even better by Xmas!

If you argue this then I don't think you understand the nature of the roadblock issue very well. All the other modes can be completed with virtually no skill other than the ability to not drain the ball. This is because there is progression memory in each mode so you resume where you left off. As long as you don't drain and end your game, you will eventually start and complete all regular modes.

The mb issue is that the mb is pretty long to complete. And it has to be done before mb ends. If its not done then you have to start the mb all over again and hope you get it next time. But that's not even the worst of it. The mb gets progressively harder to just start each time. It requires more shots at Optimus when the ramp is raised. Add to that half of those raised ramp shots end up not registering and counting and that the ball comes out of that totally out of control hitting the slingshots. I've had everything completed on ball one with two extra balls. That's 5 total balls. And had so many shots to make to just get the mb started. I ended up draining most the balls just shooting at the raised ramp Optimo without the mb even starting. And you can't replay any modes or do anything else in the game. It's a true road block.

No, I think I understand the rules of TFLE just fine and that the "roadblock" is there. I have been there and done that-even with 2 extra balls in the wings on ball one

In short I've been "roadblocked." I have also made it to and past Sentinel Prime, just not Cybertron yet. I also understand 100% that when you have all 4 modes done, you are not able to do anything else but multiballs.

My point was not whether the roadblock exists or not-I know it does, but rather if someone is stating they reach it "regularly", w/o reaching SP, it does not make sense.

I understand your point about being able to chip away at each mode and not be able to employ that tactic in TFLE multiballs, but I think you oversimplify when you state that it "takes virtually no skill" to finish the modes. I disagree that any player can just walk up and finish the modes by using the "don't drain technique".

If the ability to chip away at a multiball was all that was needed to succeed, most everyone would be finishing all 3 multiballs in LOTR regularly too. That doesn't happen-and clearly it allows for progression. The multiball objectives in LOTR are hard, as they should be.

When they add progression in TFLE, I think it will be great for the game, and I don't think it will give the farm away. More people will reach SP and be happy about it, but it is still not going to be a gimme to finish a side or earn the OP SJP on factory settings.

I've heard a few times here on Pinside that there is a huge pile of Transformers in stock at Stern.

So I got the NZ distributor to ask.

As of last week there were no Pros and 2 LEs in stock at Stern.

So .... Either someone has bought them all, or there never was a stockpile to begin with.

Hmmmmm

Dave.

If all they did was add MB progress memory, then that’s what I'd do... but I suspect there'll be other things in the update... like removing the road block, bug fixes etc... So to take advantage of those I'd have to use the new code and loose the feeling of achievement from killing OP and Megs... I'm just saying that adding MB prog memory will be a cop-out and will defeat one of the prime characteristics of the game which is to make OP and Megs a level harder to defeat...

The lack of progress memory isn't what's causing the 'road block', it's that after completing the sub modes they then become unplayable, so that all's left is the main MB. Adding progress memory won't stop this, it will just make it easier to get through the main MB... I agree it will make the roadblock less of an obstacle because you can visit OP two or three times to stroll through it, but the road block will still be there...

The idea isn't to stop at the 'roadblock', the idea is to get past it... setting the game up harder to reduce the chance of getting there is a joke right

Totally agree!

Totally disagree! There are other ways of making the main MB's more beatable without resorting to progress memory... the player can part kill the main MB's in completing sub-modes in one visit for example... that would be infinitely more satisfying than simply remembering how far a player is through the MB so he can pop back later and pick a few more shots off with no pressure... It would give the player an excellent reward for completing a sub-mode in one visit too!! All yellow arrows flash on completing a sub-mode in one, and the player shoots one of them which will then stay solidly lit and will be eliminated from the main MB of that faction... similar to how shot multipliers work, but these stay solid 'till the player moves to the other faction... When all sub-modes are complete, the player can start them again (mode selected via the pops as currently) to try and complete in-one again to eliminate another shot from the MB... Road block gone, motivation to complete modes in-one added, tool for beating main MBs added, strategy of picking modes that are easier to do in-one added, faction leaders maintain superior 'non-progress memory' power... 5-in-1 benefits, how's that for value!!

With simple MB progress memory you gain 1 in having a tool to beat the main MBs, but lose 1 in removing the exclusive nature and feeling of achievement in killing OP... that makes zero overall with pure MB prog mem!

Exactly!!! MB progress memory will kill that for ya dead!!!

What i heard is that not all TF combo's have been made. They made around 300 a 350 (not sure) when the game released. And the plan was to make the remainder of the combo later in the (next) year. And that is what has not completely happened. I thought i heard around 50 or so still has to be made of the 500 total intended.
But like all rumours, take it as such.

Mmmm, the maths (that's 'math' to our American friends) doesn't quite stack up there It would be great if they somehow didn't make the remainder, then the LE combos already out thre (like the one in my living room) would hold their value better

Maybe people can post their LE number ... Anyone got a number over 400?

Dave.

Mine's 92... so no use from my side...

Could be worth starting a new thread for this... if there's any real value in it...

Dunno if it's really that black and white. What if people who pre ordered wanted a high number?
You can have a lot of mixed numbers already available.

I heard they only did half of the TF Combos. My number is 63.

I am guessing the update comes on the heels of this abortion of a home game. Likely the only reason the bin was opened in slick edit was to lift code for the little guy. Then it was figured might as well give them what they want.

I doubt that. That POS amatuer edition is a completely different game/layout.

Stern is going to update TFs (maybe) because they can't sell the product and have 250 more games to put out. Likely distributors don't want anymore because no one wants one because of the code is "lacking". They will build 250 games and release the code after the games are in peoples basements/homes. Powerpack will then come out with the update of progression. That is all.

This is also likely true. I think distros are sitting on Xmen too. Which would make sense why avengers has not been announced. If they announce it no more sales on xmen or tf.

I am sure there is base code lifted from tf to put into the little guy. Lonnie is to lazy to code from scratch so anything he could null out i am sure he did.

The good word is there will be more than progression. What that is anybody's guess. But they supposedly filled the last half a meg of space up.

Tom has gotten bitter in his "STERN" old age lol. Join the club dude. I have been a member since 07

TFs is a good game. I really enjoyed mine. Little mechanical issues just kept pissing me off.

1. Megatron ball lock never worked 100%. No matter what I tried, perfect pitch, washers under the mech, widing the trough, etc. Balls still stacked or dribbled out due to the jiggle of the selenoid.
2. Annoying bounce outs from the Allspark.
3. Balls bouncing off Optimus and going into the mini-pf geting stuck waiting for a ball search to kick in was unacceptable.

I sold mine. Code isn't going to fix those issues.

That depends on how you look at it. If "2 LE's in stock at Stern" means 2 completed, ready to ship games than that alone speaks volumes. It means that not only has Stern not sold out of the game, but likely they also have a "stock pile" of parts ready to build more if they decide to do so.. that's why I was surprised to see that the "Amazon" model used an entirely different playfield. I'd have figured they'd want to use up a bunch of their stock-piled Transformers parts.

Stern NEEDs this code update... distributors need this code update to move the games they've been sitting on for months. The hype of the movies is already long gone, and interest in the franchise is dwindling. I hope the next code update is more than just MB progression, I really do. It'd be nice if we had a "Batman TDK" situation here. Then I'd happily pick one up again.

Funny enough, I was playing a HUO MM the other day and the exact same thing was happening with the Merlin hole.. it was driving me NUTS!

I will say this though. Over the years Stern has gone from screw you home people to actually listing to us and trying to give us what we want. So they are improving that for sure.

1) Not that it's any consolation, but mine never does that and the ball jiggle works fine...
2) I now get almost 100% capture in All Sparks with the addition of an energy absorbing 'thing' made from foam ear plugs... which looks great by the way and even bringhs the decal at the back of Allspark's hole more to the front so you can see it... I can whack the ball in there at top speed from a volley of a speeding ball from the right loop lane and it stays... Software won't fix it for sure, but it's easy to fix yourself with simple hardware. Selling a game you like instead of fixing this is a bit odd to me... Below is a pic of my fix...
3) Code CAN fix this and I hope the new update will... e.g.: hold left flipper button in and press start opens Ironhide gate... Alternatively, get a new plexi sheet and make it the same as the one there but without the hole that lets air-balls into Ironhide p/f.

Installed_oblique_view.jpg

Why does the problem only apply to home users... surely games on location will have the same code issues and will piss location players off to the point of complaing to the OP... Op's would get wise of the issues and bug Stern about it... or am I missing the point of what you're saying?

I just bought a NIB TFLE combo. First two distributors I contacted told me they were sold out, and one of them said there are none at the factory. Next two I contacted did have some on hand and I was able to get one. I was shocked at first when I got told by the first two that they were sold out.

This is true but location pinball is pretty much dead except for niche areas it seems. But i was referring to "US" as the home buyer. Not many people on pinside talking about games on location rather there game room But what you are saying is true as well. But Gary used to say in public that the home buyer was not important and we didnt make up a percentage of his sales and just all kinda rude stuff in general towards the home collector. He has now seen that a major chunk of his American sales end up in homes and has since half heartdly embraced the home market.

If distros are selling out that is great news. I will always say I had lots of differences with "MY" machine but i still like the game. I have given recent thought to getting another.

I don't think they have much of a choice. No matter if Gary wants to accept this or not, but the home collector is rapidly becoming a very large group in his " 3 section market" theory.
Give this a few more years and the home market will be a equally important part as his location market, if not more.
And let's agree for a moment pinball is steadily building a larger home market, so will the LE's become larger and larger in number. You think Gary missed the fact that a 1000!! WOZLE sold out in a rather quick time for an unproven company? In a few years time LE's will also get the 1000 treatment from Stern (if the market keeps growing of course ), either as a single unit or a couple LE's counted together ( BIB and LTBR ). No way Stern will let these chances slide by unused.

Mine's 253, so assuming they didn't skip any numbers they built more than half.

They were not built in numerical order. Preorders that paid extra for a certain number got built and the specified plate was attached. I have seen high 300's posted, but they could have skipped a bunch too.

When I picked mine up last week I saw 351 at the distributor. I took 61.

Thanks for posting. Glad to hear.

I have 392 sitting in my basement right now....

It sucks when you pay $5K-$6K for a game and you have to jam earplugs in them to fix issues.

Did the airball fix address this as well? Reason I ask is that I just got my TFLE 2 weeks ago and it has a plexi cover over the mini playfield that makes it impossible for a ball to bounce into it. The machine already had the airball fix installed so wasn't sure if this was part of that kit. It was NIB when I got it.

As for the earplugs. I'm pretty sure that's mainly only a problem with those that increase the pitch of the machine past the 7 degree's. I do find it amazing that this is never brought up with SM and the "dead foam" was made for the dock orc shot in SM to start with...

Take a picture of the mini-pf with the cover on it. That wasn't included in the "stern powerpack airball fix".

It happens maybe 0.1% of all OP hits. I have more trouble with the ball getting stuck inside the Ironhide playfield when it's not activated.

Take a picture of the mini-pf with the cover on it. That wasn't included in the "stern powerpack airball fix".

Here is what my mini playfield looks like. I do have shots of Optimus hit on the cover sometimes. Mine is #33 so figured it was an early build so all had the covers.

Also, while I'm at it. Is their supposed to be a decal on the target between star screams legs? Mine is just red and I thought I saw a pic that had a decal there.

IMG_1383.jpg IMG_1384.jpg

the combo game I had had that cover on the IH mini playfield as well.. hmm.