(Topic ID: 150507)

Tragedy of the Commons

By mbaumle

8 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 14 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 years ago by DrScoops
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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    #1 8 years ago

    I thought about this the other day after I made a pretty hearty order from the pinball resource and marco; I order parts I either need or want to stock up on without really regarding how much of it is in stock, or even if it's a product that's being reproduced. I could be totally wrong on this, but I feel like pinball is a pretty niche hobby, and I can't help but think that sometimes to fill our parts bins with things we *might* need only because they're currently plentiful, then we're diminishing the supply for others who actually need it, and then once a particular product is no longer available we'll hang on to what little we have just in case it's needed in the future--drying up the supply of parts/supplies "in the wild."

    One example that comes to mind is with CPR playfields/plastics. I can't help but think people buy a playfield or two despite either not owning the game or having any real intentions of installing it, then the supply dries up, and CPR no longer has any intentions of reproducing that particular product again.

    What do you guys think? Do you think we'll ever see a time where certain parts will simply no longer exist? Do you think the Tragedy of the Commons exists in the pinball hobby?

    #2 8 years ago

    Parts go out of stock all the time--some are from NOS stockpiles, some were manufactured more recently.

    Whenever I pick up a new game, I go into parts hunting mode immediately, so I'll have the parts handy for when I start on the restore, since there's no telling whether or not the parts will be available later.

    I also stock a decent amount of common parts that I use frequently. Most restorers do the same.

    If you get onto the waitlist for a CPR run, they will make as many as there are preorders, plus extras for suppliers (like marco) to supply. It's true that a lot of folks grab these for games on their wishlist because they probably won't be available later, so a portion of them don't immediately end up in games. I've done this myself, and have also benefited from others who have done the same and sold off their unused parts after they were no longer available form suppliers (case in point--I got a CPR high speed backglass from someone who never used it in order to install it in a game that was missing its backglass).

    Due to the nature of parts going NLA all the time, I'm sure most of us horde a little bit.

    #3 8 years ago

    Agreed 100%. I have to say, I really like the amount of support the pinball hobby has when it comes to parts.

    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    Whenever I pick up a new game, I go into parts hunting mode immediately, so I'll have the parts handy for when I start on the restore, since there's no telling whether or not the parts will be available later.

    This is the one thing that worries me, though. I always feel like I'll miss the bandwagon when it comes to getting replacement parts, especially if I'm looking in all the wrong places, or if I don't have the money for a specific part at the moment, then miss out on it when I do.

    #4 8 years ago

    Think of the other side of the situation though, lots of used parts come up for sale. Boards, plastics, ramps, bumper caps, targets, etc. Most of these are expensive when bought new outright. I grabbed a bag of targets and some bumper mechs from someone doing a restoration. I would say most people don't throw the old stuff out.

    #5 8 years ago

    With the exception of NOS parts, people buying parts they don't need will have the opposite effect of what you describe

    #6 8 years ago

    worry less and play more

    #7 8 years ago
    Quoted from mbaumle:

    One example that comes to mind is with CPR playfields/plastics. I can't help but think people buy a playfield or two despite either not owning the game or having any real intentions of installing it...

    Yeah Stu can be like that.

    #8 8 years ago
    Quoted from InfiniteLives:

    worry less and play more

    This is what the tragedy is all about! People don't care, then the next thing you know, the pastures are a dry wasteland.

    I'm only being half serious with this thread though, and it was more of a conversational thought. I understand that if there's enough of a demand for anything, people will find a way to reproduce it. But until then, the tragedy continues.

    #9 8 years ago
    Quoted from mbaumle:

    This is what the tragedy is all about! People don't care, then the next thing you know, the pastures are a dry wasteland.
    I'm only being half serious with this thread though, and it was more of a conversational thought. I understand that if there's enough of a demand for anything, people will find a way to reproduce it. But until then, the tragedy continues.

    Put up a WTB post if you're looking for something specific. Plenty of folks has parts kicking around that they don't necessarily want to bother to list and/or are willing to sell if someone has an immediate need for them.

    #10 8 years ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    Put up a WTB post if you're looking for something specific.

    Thanks for the advice. I didn't mean to sound like a person passive aggressively looking for parts, I meant for this thread to stimulate a bit of conversation (haha!).

    #11 8 years ago
    Quoted from mbaumle:

    I can't help but think that sometimes to fill our parts bins with things we *might* need only because they're currently plentiful, then we're diminishing the supply for others who actually need it, and then once a particular product is no longer available we'll hang on to what little we have just in case it's needed in the future--drying up the supply of parts/supplies "in the wild."

    I've thought about this too. I think the fact that this tends to be a 'rich mans hobby' exacerbates the issue. Many pinheads don't bat an eyelid at forking out cash for parts they think they may need in the future. There are lots and lots of parts that are out of stock everywhere and sitting on collector's shelves for a possible rainy day in the future, out of reach of the people who need them.

    Sure, they could post a WTB ad but hardly anyone will see it, and they have to be part of the fraction of pinball hobbyists that participate on Pinside. What's more, a collector's "just in case" mindset behind hoarding parts in the first place isn't going to go away when they see a WTB ad unless they can charge a premium to relinquish them.

    This isn't to say that parts hoarders are acting irrationally or unethically, or just generally being uncool. It's a free market after all. The way it *should* work, but doesn't (because the hobby is so niche and the rights/resources to reproduce parts aren't numerous) is that the more people that buy parts the more are made available. In reality there's usually a small and finite supply, which is the whole reason people buy them up "just in case" in the first place. Nobody wants to miss out, and if money is no object then why not spend it to ensure you don't get screwed in the future.

    #12 8 years ago

    I also think it's easier for operators to buy parts. People buying up new stuff, especially upgrades and game specific items, keep more of the commonly sought after parts available. Furthermore a majority of the parts an op needs are available 24/7 and isn't an impulse buy for most collectors. Operators need flipper parts, bumper parts, targets, rubbers, common electronics, balls, lamps, etc. Collectors often grab limited run things like cabinet art, playfields, plastics, toppers, target decals, etc. Not everything you buy has to be 100% shiny and new, especially for a location game. As long as it works and looks decent it will suffice for any route game.

    #13 8 years ago

    I needed to get some parts recently and placed an order with Pinball Life and noticed they had NOS early Bally SS lock down bars. I needed on so ordered one....BTW...it was very nice!. Anyway I did a FG restore for a friend and told him that if he wanted to replace the lock down bar that Pinball Life had them.....oops...all gone. There are finite numbers of many things available for pins, especially NOS. I used to buy lots of CPR playfields and most often for games I did not own simply because I knew there would only be so many. I also knew that if it turned out that I had no use for it there was always someone who would want it and for the most part I simply sold them for what I was into them. These days I am making repro and custom ramps for games. I like doing it but you just never know what life will deal you. People like me come and go. Just as I purchased CPR playfields, many of the guys who buy my ramps don't even own the games....but they might...especially games notorious for damaged ramps (ex: Genesis)...and maybe I'll give it up at some point.

    #14 8 years ago

    I think you are misusing the principle of the tragedy of the commons. In that the parts you are talking about are not commonly owned by the pinball community. If all these parts were being freely provided to all of us, then people taking more than they need would be a problem. But these parts are being purchased and are either being used or are (on some level for the right price) available for resale. Even if people were buying parts and destroying them this isn't a tragedy of the commons situation. In the case of NOS it would be tragic indeed but not because people are over consuming a free resource.

    In the end this stockpiling really represents increased demand for parts and the market does a pretty great job of matching that demand in the long run while prices rise a bit in the short run.

    On a larger scale the existence of MMR is a great example of this principle. The high demand for that product with a fixed supply drove the prices so high that there was ample incentive for PPS/CGC to remake the machine. The same can be the case for parts.

    The other thing that should calm our fears in this regard is that in this age of 3D printing/laser cutting/CNC, small runs of unique items are vastly less expensive to produce than they were in the past. There are legions of pinsiders that are smarter, more creative, and more capable than I that are cranking out the parts/tools/mods we want/need in their garages and workshops. This is truly an age of "ask and ye shall receive."

    Now, I'm not saying that all this makes pinball an inexpensive hobby, but it helps it be a possible hobby. Which is better than most would have predicted about 2016 in 2000.

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