(Topic ID: 249879)

Trade AFM Original for Remake?


By meep

7 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 87 posts
  • 48 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 months ago by o-din
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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Topic poll

“You have an original AFM. Sell it and buy a remake?”

  • Yes - get a remake 17 votes
    23%
  • No - keep your original 49 votes
    67%
  • It depends 7 votes
    10%

(73 votes)

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There are 87 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#51 7 months ago
Quoted from pb456:

Yeah, ok. So how long do you think those parts would last?

If you're playing the game, they all wear at different rates.

#52 7 months ago

Before reading this thread, just on the title alone. I did this very thing earlier in the year with no regrets. A few adjustments to the wire ramps, flipper angle when at rest and flipper power. Love it, CGC did a great job. I held onto my original for more than 6 months to be sure.

#53 7 months ago

The AFM LE is THE BEST remake made IMO with that killer topper and UFO LED's that change multiple colors... I've owned both and the remake is the way to go here for the price!!

#54 7 months ago

I own the AFM LE it is just awesome best topper ever. If there was a HEP original AFM next to it I would take that otherwise I would keep the LE

-1
#55 7 months ago

The originals already proved its test of time.
They still work after decades.

Same with cars.
In 50 years, I can easily imagine a 100 year old Mustang but hardly imagine a 50 year old Tesla on the road.

#56 7 months ago
Quoted from pinzrfun:

Didn't someone do a test on the delay of the signal from the flippers to the board or something when the remakes first came out?
It wasn't much, but people noticed. SOME people noticed, I should say.

Quoted from NeilMcRae:

there was no delay, the guy measured it wrong. The v2.0 chip was to fix a different issue.

As the person who did these measurements I feel like I need to chime in to correct this. I did this in response to some comments on a podcast where they felt the remakes had a longer flipper delay than the originals. When I initially did the measurements there was a grounding issue on the original which made it look like it had no delay at all but this wasn't the case. This was corrected in the first page of that thread. Here is what was found:

On original WPC95 games like AFM, MM, MB there is a variable 2-5 ms delay between when the switch on the flipper is closed and the flipper is energized.

On remakes there is the same amount of variation as the originals with an additional delay of about 1.5 ms. This additional delay is likely not perceptible but this its unknown as I don't know if anyone has ever looked at this in a rigorous way.

The engineers at CGC said on future versions of the remakes they would introduce code that allowed the delay to be reduced or eliminated. Perhaps even eliminating the variation that was present in the originals so people could decide if this made a difference or not. As far as I know such changes have not yet been introduced.

I personally preferred the play of the originals to the remakes but skill can't put my finger on why. The games are different at many levels and the differences between them can been seen from across the room so impressions of the games may be shaped by many factors. There are people who cannot detect any difference in gameplay and some people on both sides are very passionate about their opinion on this. In short preference for an original vs remake is an individual choice that you should make for yourself.

#57 7 months ago

I added a poll to the topic.

There has been a lot of talk about gameplay - I like the way the original plays, I have a pretty good feel for it. All else equal I prefer the status quo just because I'm used to it.

Economics are secondary to me. I just wouldn't want to make the switch and have the original soar in relative value due to collector demand.

As far as repairs and maintenance, what should I expect to do to keep the Original in good form?

#58 7 months ago

I own MMrLE, AFMrLE and MBrE, Sterns and several WPC games. From my personal experience, the CGC remakes have been rock solid and extremely well built with the least amount of problems of the 3 groups. Stern NIB had several issues but once resolved had very little problems. WPC games had the most problems such as reset issues, power supply issues display issues etc. Its always a crap shoot buying an older game. People like to say that WPC games are easy to repair and that may be true but the cold hard truth is that the vast majority of pinball people do not know how to do board work and would not even know how to begin to troubleshoot and diagnose.

Moving forward, all the major pinball manufacturers now have a computer (beaglebone black, spike etc.) that drives their machines. They have several years of active duty in homes as well on location. There is even a thread documenting an MMr on location. I would not hesitate to grab a remake, tweak it to your liking and enjoy.

#59 7 months ago
Quoted from ALY:

The originals already proved its test of time.
They still work after decades.
Same with cars.
In 50 years, I can easily imagine a 100 year old Mustang but hardly imagine a 50 year old Tesla on the road.

Even though I agree with sticking with an original, every time someone starts with a cargument I picture the Fonz jumping the shark.

#60 7 months ago
Quoted from Cobray:

The AFM LE is THE BEST remake made IMO with that killer topper and UFO LED's that change multiple colors... I've owned both and the remake is the way to go here for the price!!

This seems to be the general consensus. I see no harm in going with the CGC pin.

Of course, part of me has to think that this is a real "first-world problem."

#61 7 months ago
Quoted from meep:

Thanks for all the comments - really helpful.
I should tell you what lead me to asking the question. Earlier this year I had two issues - the image on the screen scrolls, and Stroke of Luck wasn't registering properly. A repair wizard came out, fixed the SOL issue, but wasn't able to repair the screen. He suggested that if I was going to replace the screen to upgrade to color. A few months and probably 500 games go by, and now a shot in the saucer will advance multiball rather than blow up the saucer.
Being a noob, I'm not sure if I'm just coming across an unlucky run of problems, if this is indicative of a bigger issue with the machine, or if I should just expect regular repairs from 20 year old electronics. If it's the latter, I'm inclined to test out a remake. From many of your comments, it's probably one of the former. But knowing the type of issue I'm coming across, maybe you have some specific feedback.
I just want it to work so I can get back to trying to rule the universe.

Trading up to a newer pin every time you have a few issues is going to get real expensive. A bad display is a great excuse to upgrade to colordmd. Super easy to install. You could even save money by buying a used dmd for around $100 or less. For switch problems, go into the switch test in the menu and determine which switches work or if a switch triggers other switches. Chances are there is a loose wire or something shorting. Save your money to buy another pin.

#62 7 months ago

Go remake, and you might get one with that super duper new clearcote most manufacturers are now using.

#63 7 months ago
Quoted from o-din:

Go remake, and you might get one with that super duper new clearcote most manufacturers are now using.

Has CGC had any clearcoat issues? Or is this just a blanket negative statement? Mine looks good, but maybe I'm in the minority.

On that same note, and by your line of thinking - why worry about new clearcoat when you can just have a playfield with 30 years of wear.

The reality is that CGC machines have been highly rated by those that own them. And those that own originals will say that they are better than a remake. Each person has to make a value judgment of what is important to them and which is better. The real answer is that there isn't a real answer. This question will always spark up the fan boys on both sides, and guess what, both sides are right.

#64 7 months ago
Quoted from o-din:

Go remake, and you might get one with that super duper new clearcote most manufacturers are now using.

to my knowledge there haven't been any remake play field issues....I think your thinking of JJP and Stern

#65 7 months ago

The remake is prettier, the original plays just enough mo bettah to be noticeable. Don't know why, but it does.

#66 7 months ago

Ok, I'm gonna chime in here, first of all I'll state my prejudice by saying I own a original. I'll ask this, how do you know something is good, I mean really good, they make a reproduction of it. It happens with everything from cars, jukeboxes, signs, arcades, so on and so on. I think the the reproductions are great in their own way. New, shiny, fancy, little maintenance. They are making really good reproduction's for people who couldn't get their hands on a original, or want to upgrade to a much better condition machine. The originals just got played so much. If that's what your looking for, to upgrade condition, or get your hands on one then do it. But far as owning an original and trading for a remake I would never do that.

#67 7 months ago
Quoted from maffewl:

Has CGC had any clearcoat issues? Or is this just a blanket negative statement? Mine looks good, but maybe I'm in the minority.

They have had some brittle clear issues, mostly with MMr and some scattered ones with AfMr, but overall, CGC, CPR and Bader have the most consistently decent playfields currently.

#68 7 months ago
Quoted from maffewl:

Has CGC had any clearcoat issues?

Don't make me dig, but yeah man. Chipping and peeling.

Not to mention those playfields that you could barely read the ink and their solution was to send out a cheap plastic diffuser. lol And the ones that got tomahawked by the slingshots because they were installed wrong so they sent out the wrong plunger to compensate for that. Several of those customers were super happy too.

#69 7 months ago
Quoted from o-din:

Don't make me dig, but yeah man. Chipping and peeling.
Not to mention those playfields that you could barely read the ink and their solution was to send out a cheap plastic diffuser. lol And the ones that got tomahawked by the slingshots because they were installed wrong so they sent out the wrong plunger to compensate for that. Several of those customers were super happy too.

this was not a common occurrence as u would like to lead others to believe....its pinball if u look hard enough you'll find something thats not perfect.

#70 7 months ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

this was not a common occurrence as u would like to lead others to believe...

I'm not trying to lead anybody to believe anything that I didn't see pictures of or read posted here. I never said it was common or not, just that it happened, and it wasn't in each case an isolated incident.

If it wasn't a common issue and only happened to a few then why did CGC basically tell those people to pound sand? On what they advertised as being a collectable item for home use. Especially after how long those with deposits down waited patiently to get them.

#71 7 months ago
Quoted from o-din:

I'm not trying to lead anybody to believe anything that I didn't see pictures of or read posted here. I never said it was common or not, just that it happened, and it wasn't in each case an isolated incident.
If it wasn't a common issue and only happened to a few then why did CGC basically tell those people to pound sand? On what they advertised as being a collectable item for home use. Especially after how long those with deposits down waited patiently to get them.

No idea....never heard of the issue....all 3 of my LE's have played flawlessly.....the only play field issue i heard about on AFM was some were claiming the colors were off.

#72 7 months ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

No idea....never heard of the issue....all 3 of my LE's have played flawlessly.....the only play field issue i heard about on AFM was some were claiming the colors were off.

Oh, the colors were WAY OFF on the people that had the issue. The screener was drunk or high and forgot to change the screen color for the orange blast color and insert trim color was flesh-colored instead. Fortunately, it was only a few playfields.
PF-to-Plastics-Nude-Compare2 (resized).jpg

#73 7 months ago

So, I'm hearing that there were a finite amount of issues out of thousands produced. Got it. Sounds like typical manufacturing expectations. I'm sure 100% of Bally/Williams machines were perfect with zero flaws. Or, it's more likely that their machines were produced in a non-digital age and every mistake wasn't magnified and posted. Reality is that CGC did an awesome job with the remakes and original owners don't like prices being driven down due to supply. Like I said before, there is no right answer to this question. Original fan boys like their machines, and remake fan boys like theirs. But there is no need to blanket drag CGC down when they have done a great job. Manufacturing mistakes happen. It's when they become common (such as the Stern/JJP clearcoat issue previously mentioned) that becomes more of a problem.

-2
#74 7 months ago

To me, the original and remake play exactly the same, though I've never played an original so take that for what it's worth.

I'd say only trade if you can come out ahead or even on it. I probably wouldn't want to lose any money trading a perfectly good pinball machine for a newer one, unless I was getting some upgrades or a machine in much better condition. The CE is $6.5k and may have a couple of extra features. If the difference is only a few hundred bucks, go for it; if it's upwards of $1k, it's most likely not worth it unless you have money to burn.

#75 7 months ago

Keep original, enough said.

#76 7 months ago

New technology is usually preferred. I have met a few that believe that computers with 286/386 chips were better. LOL

#77 7 months ago
Quoted from Lhyrgoif:

Keep original, enough said.

That would seem to be the overwhelming response according to the poll. I've been a little tempted to pick up another nice original myself.

Thanks to the remakes for making a quality original a little more affordable these days.

#78 7 months ago

I had a choice and choose a original restored master piece. The only reason is I like the option of swapping out lights. Color matched led inserts cannot be done on the remakes. It makes a world of difference trying to make a coolwhite/warm white light up a blue insert it just doesn’t look right to me. Being that said the remake is awesome in its own right.

#79 7 months ago
Quoted from shovelhed:

I had a choice and choose a original restored master piece. The only reason is I like the option of swapping out lights. Color matched led inserts cannot be done on the remakes.

Of course you can. Snap-in theatrical filter brackets can make an insert just about any color you want in a much wider and more subtle range than bulb colors. I've sold them for Iron Maiden, Ghostbusters, Metallica, Munsters, X-Men, etc with great results.

-1
#80 7 months ago
Quoted from vireland:

Of course you can.

Can't swap them out for incandescents though which provides much of the charm of the originals for me.

#81 7 months ago
Quoted from o-din:

Can't swap them out for incandescents though which provides much of the charm of the originals for me.

That wasn't the thing I was answering. He was talking about color-matching inserts, which you absolutely can do on the remakes.

#82 7 months ago

I understand what you were responding to. I was responding to this part of his post. Using your quote. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Quoted from shovelhed:

The only reason is I like the option of swapping out lights.

#83 7 months ago
Quoted from o-din:

Can't swap them out for incandescents though which provides much of the charm of the originals for me.

Yep, AFM is the only game I kept incandescent bulbs in the g.i. it looks killer. (Of course I ruined the purist vibe with led insert bulbs )

#84 7 months ago
Quoted from yzfguy:

Yep, AFM is the only game I kept incandescent bulbs in the g.i. it looks killer. (Of course I ruined the purist vibe with led insert bulbs )

Are you running LED OCD? That will make your inserts with LED bulbs behave like incandescent bulbs. Without it, LEDs behave badly the inserts of the originals - they don't look right.

#85 7 months ago

I bought the classic edition remake for $6000 and I don't think I'd ever buy an original. It's just extremely nice having everything new and IMHO the play just about the same. And I only used "just about" because originals play different machine to machine even.

Either way... great game.

#86 7 months ago
Quoted from vireland:

Are you running LED OCD? That will make your inserts with LED bulbs behave like incandescent bulbs. Without it, LEDs behave badly the inserts of the originals - they don't look right.

I have the ledocd in fishtales, but not AFM. The LEDs never looked bad to me. Maybe I need to see one with ledocd installed

1 week later
#87 7 months ago

The storied history of pinball made it to the basement. Where apparently on pinside it belongs.

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