(Topic ID: 249879)

Trade AFM Original for Remake?


By meep

26 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 87 posts
  • 48 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 14 days ago by o-din
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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Topic poll

“You have an original AFM. Sell it and buy a remake?”

  • Yes - get a remake 17 votes
    23%
  • No - keep your original 49 votes
    67%
  • It depends 7 votes
    10%

(73 votes)

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There are 87 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 26 days ago

Pinside community - thank you for existing.

I currently have an original Attack from Mars in reasonably good shape. It does need repairs periodically and I worry that as it ages this will get worse. I'm considering swapping it out for a remake for less downtime and more longevity.

One concern is value - will the original potentially appreciate in value as a collectors piece as the years go by, and perhaps make holding on to it worth the upkeep costs?

Any thoughts are appreciated.

20
#2 26 days ago

I would take a original over a remake any day.

#3 26 days ago

Remake is much better.

#4 26 days ago

Original. Lots of folks have the expertise to work on the Bally version, so your chances of getting help are greater.
I have an original for that specific reason. (although I do like the bigger display/higher res on the new ones!)

#5 26 days ago

Originals have plentiful parts to keep running. I wouldn't worry about it getting worse over time, it's not like a used car with high mileage. I also wouldn't own a machine in which I was worried about value. Both have been sitting in the same range and both still depend on condition. A beat up and routed Remake is worth just as much as the same conditioned original. A NIB remake is worth the same as a very nice original.

I haven't had any experience working on the Remakes, but I am comfortable working on WPCs, so that for me alone is worth it. I would keep my original if I were in the same position.

#6 26 days ago

Beside easy to work on and get parts for, originals are the only way to get the correct lighting that was meant for this game.

#7 26 days ago

Owned the original, played the remakes - original.

One of the few games I wish I hadn't sold. Got top dollar before the remakes were announced, but still wish I had "mine" back. Especially for the $2800.00 i paid for it lol.

#8 26 days ago

I have the remake. It's more sexy but the original shoots better IMO

#9 26 days ago

An original is an original. They are easier to fix and shoot better than the remakes. In the long run an original will be worth more than a remake.

Too bad Chicago Gaming did not make these remakes more true to an original kind of what Gene did with Big Bang Bar. Make a game as close to an original using as much of the original design (and boardsets) as possible.

#10 26 days ago

I prefer the remakes. The originals didn't have good enough lighting, the remake's lighting is amazing and very easy to customize through the menu.

#11 26 days ago

If you can get an LE go for it. The big screen, awesome topper and upgraded LEDs on the painter saucers are damn cool.

If it’s a super clean original vs. an AFM Classic it’s maybe another call. The classic can have the upgraded color graphics which is nice, but it’s kinda trading same for same.

Quoted from Tommy-dog:

Too bad Chicago Gaming did not make these remakes more true to an original kind of what Gene did with Big Bang Bar. Make a game as close to an original using as much of the original design (and boardsets) as possible.

Big Bang was less a remake and more as close to production as you were gonna get, as the Big Bangs that existed before that were all prototypes, and Gene had the boards and parts from his capcom buyout.

#12 26 days ago

I wouldn't even think of trading my original for a refake.

#13 26 days ago

owned both....remakes are my preference....I'll take new with AFMRLE with the large color display, and awesome interactive topper all day long. Just a more enjoyable experience for most who have played my games. That being said there is and always will be a pinball "purists" market who will always prefer original so nice examples of these games will always hold pretty good value. Anyone who tells you an original shoots better than the remake is full of it....

#14 26 days ago
Quoted from PtownPin:

owned both....remakes are my preference....I'll take new with AFMRLE with the large color display, and awesome interactive topper all day long. Just a more enjoyable experience for most who have played my games. That being said there is and always will be a pinball "purists" market who will always prefer original so nice examples of these games will always hold pretty good value. Anyone who tells you an original shoots better than the remake is full of it....

I must be full of it.

I do think the original ( a nice original of course ) , just plays better.

Same with MMR.

Played 5 different MMR and a nice original just felt better.

But, hey, we all like different things!

#15 26 days ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

I must be full of it.

I do think the original ( a nice original of course ) , just plays better.

Same with MMR.

No, you are correct.

#16 26 days ago

My wife, who is a casual pinball player but does play in our league, has been wanting an AFM for a while now but I have limited space and already have a MM so I don't want AFM and MM as they are too similar. I thought for sure she would want the AFMRLE but we recently played that and then an original on back to back nights and she told me if I ever get one it better be an OG because "it just plays better". Take that for what it's worth but I would also prefer an OG for multiple reasons. I do think the MBR plays more like an MB than MMR or AFMR play like their OG counterparts, not sure why that is but that's my opinion.

#17 26 days ago

I feel time will not be kind to the remakes. Let’s face it, today’s electronics are meant to be used and thrown away when they break. The originals were built to be serviceable. Who is to say the remake manufacture will even be around 5 years from now. I don’t think the parts to keep the remakes running are going to be around which makes the games using them worthless. Always go with the original.

#18 26 days ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

I must be full of it.
I do think the original ( a nice original of course ) , just plays better.
Same with MMR.
Played 5 different MMR and a nice original just felt better.
But, hey, we all like different things!

Most games play different, but to say one plays better than the other is a stretch....I had a restored MM and MMRLE sitting next to each other for a year and they both felt a little different, but played exactly the same...for me I choose new versus old...it was that simple....

#19 26 days ago

I have had both. I do feel the original felt a bit more solid to me. But I have to say, the remake is incredible in comparison. The shots are the exact same to me, but the LED lighting is awesome, but not overdone. I have the CE with a shaker motor and color chip for the display and it is awesome. I prefer the classic look, smaller display. And even on the CE the sound is a huge upgrade.

#20 26 days ago

Didn't someone do a test on the delay of the signal from the flippers to the board or something when the remakes first came out?

It wasn't much, but people noticed. SOME people noticed, I should say.

#21 26 days ago
Quoted from pinzrfun:

Didn't someone do a test on the delay of the signal from the flippers to the board or something when the remakes first came out?
It wasn't much, but people noticed. SOME people noticed, I should say.

CGC came out with an updated chip (version 2.0) to fix that issue.

#22 26 days ago

I’ve played the remakes a gazillion times. No doubt they feel like butter.

But man... in 20 years when all that surface mounted stuff starts to go bad, what’s the repair process going to be like?

The originals have decades of parts and repair experience under their belts. Plus the incandescent lamps just feel better (but that’s completely subjective).

I’d take my original any day and would never even think to trade it for a reproduction.

#23 26 days ago

Here's what you do since you're worried.
Spend:
~$50 on a flipper rebuild kit
~$20 on a coil sleeve kit
~$25 for sling shot rebuild parts
~$100 for LED's
~$250 for both GIOCD and LEDOCD boards
~$200 to have a person do all the work (that number HIGHLY subject to change)
You have a minty flipper on your hands and should be turn key player for many years to come.

#24 26 days ago

Keep the original.

#25 26 days ago

I have the remake and haven’t played an original in years. That said I would probably keep the original as well.

#26 26 days ago

Original or bust, Eddy agrees

I've played 3 remakes at 3 different locations that get heavy traffic, and have played a high high number of games on them. Over the course of a year all three of the remakes have aged VERY poorly and have played worse and worse. All three locations have good techs, and take care of their games. They also have original Bally/Williams stuff that play consistently well.

Had similar experience with the Monster Bash remakes too, unfortunately.

They just didnt nail the shot designs, and the build isnt there for the long haul

#27 26 days ago
Quoted from T7:

CGC came out with an updated chip (version 2.0) to fix that issue.

there was no delay, the guy measured it wrong. The v2.0 chip was to fix a different issue.

#28 26 days ago

I sold my MB to get MBR.

why? My MMR and AFMR are bullet proof. The most reliable pinball machines I own. CGC did an epic job. MBR plays lovely. Swap that game with absolute confidence.

Regards,
Neil.

11
#29 26 days ago
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:

I feel time will not be kind to the remakes. Let’s face it, today’s electronics are meant to be used and thrown away when they break. The originals were built to be serviceable. Who is to say the remake manufacture will even be around 5 years from now. I don’t think the parts to keep the remakes running are going to be around which makes the games using them worthless. Always go with the original.

made up nonsense.

#30 26 days ago
Quoted from pinzrfun:

Didn't someone do a test on the delay of the signal from the flippers to the board or something when the remakes first came out?
It wasn't much, but people noticed. SOME people noticed, I should say.

There was a discussion, and then CGC chimed in, and it became clear that the OPs test methodology was flawed.

Not to say there isnt a difference, but whatever tests folks were doing then didnt show one.

I'm not sure that flipper delay is why there's a difference.... it could be a factor, amongst others. Imho there is a big difference in the play and the originals take the cake

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/why-remakes-dont-play-like-originals

#31 26 days ago
Quoted from CLEllison:

Here's what you do since you're worried.

38kdp3 (resized).jpg
#32 26 days ago

Improved graphics with extra-large display, two-color interactive mini-saucer light show, super cool interactive topper. I'll take the remake.

#33 26 days ago

Either way you can't lose, great game!

#34 26 days ago

Why buy a replica when you can have the real thing for the about the same cost? All these people saying they are great seem to be justifying their purchases (sorry). Don’t get me wrong, they are good copies but these are pinball machines and things break. How do you get replacement parts for the remakes? CGC isn’t required to make these parts forever. Once they go end of service life you’re stuck. The old Williams/ Bally games have an established parts network that has already been proven for 30 years. Most Pinsiders can solder but only a very few can do surface mount repairs. If the game is a keeper original is the way to go.

#35 26 days ago

Original all day for me. Personal pref - i like knowing that i can fix any issue that ANY machine old or new can have. CGC’s will need work too - they are still pinball machines!

First time i played MM was on MMR LE. Loved it. Then played an original. Loved it too! Can’t say i noticed a huge diff at all. Guess it depends on how well it was maintained. So everything else considered equal i prefer the ease of maintenance with the originals and i feel like i own a small pc of history.

The longest pin I've owned in my collection is my CV. i’ve done nothing more than clean, wax, and replace batteries before i installed nvram. Oh and replaced the balls. 20+ year old machines do not equate to poor reliability. Brand new does not mean maintenance free. So just pick which one you like better, only persons opinion that’s important here is your own .

#36 26 days ago

Start a poll.If you have original vote original.If you have a remake vote remake.Simple.Rinse and repeat.

#37 26 days ago
Quoted from Slugmeister:

Start a poll.If you have original vote original.If you have a remake vote remake.Simple.Rinse and repeat.

I was thinking the same. But instead of a poll - look at how many owners have the remake vs original. Should end at the same spot lol

932 AFM declared owners
596 AFMr owners.

Are these definitive numbers? Nope. Just those who show it in their collection. But the magnitude suggests more people would vote original. And they would be right! Hahaha (i own original...)

#38 26 days ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

I sold my MB to get MBR.
why? My MMR and AFMR are bullet proof. The most reliable pinball machines I own. CGC did an epic job. MBR plays lovely. Swap that game with absolute confidence.
Regards,
Neil.

I am glad to hear someone saying this. I am planning on getting a MBse and AFMce in the next month, and some of these posts are giving me anxiety!

I decided to go with remakes instead of clean originals at the same price thinking it was the most rational course of action; the subtle differences in feel don’t bother me and I simply can’t wrap my mind around the idea that a 25 year-old used game at the same price could possibly last longer than a brand-new remake with no wear and tear, even if I found a pristine example and even if the original WPC platform is more desirable (I am not convinced it is for a variety of reasons).

Based upon your experience, do you think the criticisms of the CGC hardware being less reparable and more likely to be obsoleted than WPC are valid? It would seem to me the opposite is true, given that they appear to have specified through-hole parts in the more failure-prone positions and built their system upon the BeagleBoard platform (which is open-source and industry-standard, and will be amenable to emulation long into the future). Also, there seem to be minimal reports of board problems with CGC in the forums, so it appears at this point several years into the remakes that the system is inherently well-designed and durable.

#39 26 days ago

If it were me I'd be going for the remake. A reasonably good shape AFM will sell for the price of (or close to) at least an AFMr CE. With that you'd get brand new everything, and not have to worry about constant tinkering. Maybe I'm biased because I have an AFMr LE, but the CGC build quality blew me away. So yeah, I'd take brand new hardware over 20 year old hardware any day.

#40 26 days ago

If at the same price and same condition, original. All day, no question. However, an original with some time and wear on it versus a brand new machine, I honestly do not see how this is even a decision point. Remake, period. CGC knocked this one out of the park. Yes, I own an AFMr, and am extremely happy. Call me biased, or whatever tickles your fancy, I would just say that I'm very happy with my purchase and have zero regrets with a brand new machine with modern technology that is built like a tank. Further, it comes from a company - still in business - that stands behind their work.

#41 26 days ago

I have the remakes no interest in orginal. If I didn't have the remakes I wouldn't been able to own these titles.

#42 26 days ago

If you can swing it why not pick up a AFMR CE or SE and play them side by side. Then you can see which one you prefer from a gameplay/shooting stand point. I said earlier I own an LE and I’m completely happy with it. I’ve played originals, but it’s been years so I won’t compare them to the original, although I would find that hard to do considering the wide differences with older machines ranging from beat games to restored games.

#43 26 days ago

Thanks for all the comments - really helpful.

I should tell you what lead me to asking the question. Earlier this year I had two issues - the image on the screen scrolls, and Stroke of Luck wasn't registering properly. A repair wizard came out, fixed the SOL issue, but wasn't able to repair the screen. He suggested that if I was going to replace the screen to upgrade to color. A few months and probably 500 games go by, and now a shot in the saucer will advance multiball rather than blow up the saucer.

Being a noob, I'm not sure if I'm just coming across an unlucky run of problems, if this is indicative of a bigger issue with the machine, or if I should just expect regular repairs from 20 year old electronics. If it's the latter, I'm inclined to test out a remake. From many of your comments, it's probably one of the former. But knowing the type of issue I'm coming across, maybe you have some specific feedback.

I just want it to work so I can get back to trying to rule the universe.

#44 26 days ago

Where are you located?

#45 26 days ago

Milwaukee

#46 26 days ago
Quoted from meep:

Pinside community - thank you for existing.
I currently have an original Attack from Mars in reasonably good shape. It does need repairs periodically and I worry that as it ages this will get worse. I'm considering swapping it out for a remake for less downtime and more longevity.
One concern is value - will the original potentially appreciate in value as a collectors piece as the years go by, and perhaps make holding on to it worth the upkeep costs?
Any thoughts are appreciated.

You should add a poll. Of course, there will be a ton of people on both sides of it.

Originality vs. Newness

I say go for what YOU value most...a shinier, easier to deal with pin...or originality.

It's hard to say how value would be affected in the future, but wouldn't the value of your gameplay be the most important thing??

Which one do you enjoy the most?

#47 26 days ago
Quoted from meep:

Pinside community - thank you for existing.
I currently have an original Attack from Mars in reasonably good shape. It does need repairs periodically and I worry that as it ages this will get worse. I'm considering swapping it out for a remake for less downtime and more longevity.
One concern is value - will the original potentially appreciate in value as a collectors piece as the years go by, and perhaps make holding on to it worth the upkeep costs?
Any thoughts are appreciated.

Only an original for an AfMrLE. Not any other flavor of the remake - there's little point. The LE is the premium experience and the topper integration is fantastic. If you can't get from an original to a remake LE, then keep the original.

#48 26 days ago
Quoted from Mad_Dog_Coin_Op:

I feel time will not be kind to the remakes. Let’s face it, today’s electronics are meant to be used and thrown away when they break. The originals were built to be serviceable. Who is to say the remake manufacture will even be around 5 years from now. I don’t think the parts to keep the remakes running are going to be around which makes the games using them worthless. Always go with the original.

Hold on - the originals were made to be played and paid for in six months to a year - and die soon after. Not 40 years.

Yes, I get it and can fix that game - but we're talking a collection of 40 or so year old parts. I'd be pressing for the new game over the old, it's an easy bet.

That being said, great game, new or old.

#49 26 days ago
Quoted from pb456:

Hold on - the originals were made to be played and paid for in six months to a year. Not 40 years.
Yes, I get it and can fix that game - but we're talking a collection of 40 or so year old parts. I'd be pressing for the new game over the old, it's an easy bet.
That being said, great game, new or old.

40 years? When do you think the original was made? More like 24 or so.

#50 26 days ago
Quoted from vireland:

40 years? When do you think the original was made? More like 24 or so.

Yeah, ok. So how long do you think those parts would last?

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