(Topic ID: 122955)

TPF: Great Show....Terrible Tournament(s)

By Tsskinne

9 years ago


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  • Latest reply 8 years ago by Chet
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    There are 228 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 5.
    #151 8 years ago
    Quoted from ninjadoug:

    It is not publicly available yet.

    Will it be at some point? If so, any idea when?

    #152 8 years ago
    Quoted from Noahs_Arcade:

    The only valid game complaints I heard were in the tilt bank. Mostly BSD, Congo, and TFTC.
    I complained a ton about the retro bank, but it had nothing to do with the games and everything to do with how I played on them

    What was wrong with those 3 games?

    I watched TFTC and Congo for a bit over 4 hours and played both of those a couple of times. I never experienced any issues with them. Congo was set up a bit to easy IMHO and TFLC was set a bit on the hard side with the side post removed. I didn't notice any game playment issues but I guess they could have happened later on.

    That BSD was beautiful. It was hard as could be but not something to complain about as tournament games aren't supposed to be easy. I thought the bank had a good mix of reasonable difficult games mixed with harder ones.

    Just my take on the games in the bank:

    T3 - pretty easy set-up. Shoot for MB all day and score big.
    Simpsons - Med difficulty due to the outlane post. If you could control the ball it was not bad at all. I scored 30 million on my first try and was one shot away from Alien Invasion and 15 million on my second. Not great scores but not bad either (for me) if you made your shots and didn't go for risky shots (Itchy targets and pops especially).
    TFTC - Pretty tough. Missing post on the right drain and that right ramp was killer. Nothing that wasn't fair for everyone though. I actually thought it got pulled due to a malfunction but wasn't sure.
    AFM - I felt was the toughest game and the scores showed it. The feed out of the SOL going into the slings to wide open outlanes was killer. I had several issues with balls going straight at the drop target under the ship, hit the shield bank and bounce over it but it wasn't to bad. It punished missed shots big time and for some odd reason most players where going for ships as their strategy. That's super risky and why I think it had the fastest ball times of the bank.
    Congo - I felt was set up to easy for tournament play. Lanes needed to be opened up or something. Was a nice change from some of the other games in the bank though. It and T3 by far had the longest ball times.
    BSD - one tough *&^%. It's BSD though so that's to be expected. Ball was still controllable but punished a missed shot pretty bad which is what a tournament game should do. That mystery/mist hole had some lip outs though.
    TWD - By far the easiest set up game. Both lanes were in the middle and (for a TWD) didn't drain to much out of the pops. The only problem I saw with that game was the head wasn't registering hits as much as it should have.

    I thought they did a good job setting up the games. I'm honestly curious as to what people felt was wrong with them as I thought Tilt was a pretty good bank thus why I focused on it when qualifying.

    #153 8 years ago

    TFTC was set up as hard as I could make it without removing the flippers. It suffered a broken plastic and lampshade due to a lot of airballs, and Marcus said at times it had a few electrical problems.

    BSD, the proper mystery hole shot was a mystery. There were a lot of rejects on it from what I heard.

    Congo, the flipper alignment was off.

    I didn't personally have any problems with the bank and I prefer very short games in tournaments. These are just complaints I heard from others.

    I think the selection and quality of the games is the absolute last thing anyone could complain about

    #154 8 years ago
    Quoted from Snailman:

    For those of you who are offering suggestions, feedback, etc, if you attend again next year, I'd like to see ALL of you step and volunteer for a shift of game set up, scoretaking, or general tourney logistics help.

    I had a game in the bank as well as five others on the floor. Not going to volunteer and spend 100 bucks on tourney fees in that situation. Maybe if we are not renting a U-haul and killing ourselves readying machines for weeks as well.

    Quoted from Zaxxis:Wow.
    Unless there was proof that all previous scores were affected by this issue, those scores should have never been thrown out.

    I watched the player prior to me get a ton of free Wolverine hits...when these people are qualifying a third Wolverine multiball that took ~22 hits to qualify? Come on...really?

    #155 8 years ago
    Quoted from 85vett:

    Congo - I felt was set up to easy for tournament play. Lanes needed to be opened up or something. Was a nice change from some of the other games in the bank though. It and T3 by far had the longest ball times.

    Lanes were completely open man...if Marcus wanted to take rubbers off the outlane posts, he could have done so. Same deal with the tilt bob. I set it as a courtesy and expect it to be changed to be tighter by tournament directors using my machines. It's my personal opinion that a solid nudge should give one warning, a shove or good shake two warnings, and any kind of slide is most likely a tilt.

    Quoted from Noahs_Arcade:

    Congo, the flipper alignment was off.

    Yes. This is my fault. I was aware of this prior to the tournament, and even one of the guys down in Austin took me pictures of the damn flipper alignment and I totally forgot to even try to correct it. That's on me. Congo, for whatever dumbass reason, doesn't have the alignment holes, and I can't, for the life of me, figure out how the hell to set the upper flipper to make the mystery cave shot. Personally, short of it being used for the super jackpot, that shot is WAAAAAY too lucrative IMO as it starts both a video mode which can award a crapton of points safely (GO LEFT, MAN!), but also does the 50 million per shot in Amy mode, which on some other Congo I have played is way too easy to repeat shoot from the post held release.

    I'm open on feedback how to adjust the flippers for this game, so let me know in what way you feel they need to be adjusted. I specifically removed Superbands and put on brand new red rubber for this, so it may also be that people were not having to re-acclimate themselves to shots that are at different times on superbands..

    http://pinballtourneys.com/TPF2015/machine_info.php?MName=Congo~~Texas+Tilt+Saturday

    These are not spectacular scores from a bunch of guys that I know for a fact are well acclimated with Congo.. it looks to me like if people felt the times were too long, the tilt needed to be tighter. With good play, Congo is VERY controllable and the rules provide consistent awards.

    Other than this, the only feedback I've gotten was the color changers in ZINJ someone said it was hard to tell if they were lit or not.. if it ever goes back in a tourney bank, I'll put those on a cool white or something. I don't think it's an issue, and it's a cool effect, but hey...I get it.

    #156 8 years ago
    Quoted from Classic_Stern:

    I am not going to read through all of this. I can tell you I intentionally brought my beautiful 1980 Bally's Rolling Stones for only the Tournament and also my fully restored Viking. They are 100% ground up restoration and I do that for Marcus. NOS everything.....What is the problem with games that look and play like brand new ?

    It was a treat to play your Rolling Stones and Viking. Your Viking was a big reason why I won the retro tourney. Thanks again for sharing your pins with us.

    I'll make my early request now for your Frontier in next year's Retro tourney.

    #157 8 years ago
    Quoted from DocRotCod:

    Hope my TSPP was up to par. It's the first time I've put a game in for tournament use.

    Absolutely. Thanks again for putting it in the tourney.

    #158 8 years ago

    I have no idea how congo's flippers are supposed to look, and I don't play it enough to know if my bricked shots were flipper-related or operator error.

    I thought they looked too droopy, but others were saying they were too high.

    I hope someone can explain how they should be aligned

    #159 8 years ago
    Quoted from Snailman:

    It was a treat to play your Rolling Stones and Viking. Your Viking was a big reason why I won the retro tourney. Thanks again for sharing your pins with us.
    I'll make my early request now for your Frontier in next year's Retro tourney.

    I agree. Those machines were amazing.
    I ended up beating Ken Kemp's son Austin on the Viking. Felt bad doing it though, he is going to be a great competitor in the future.
    Both machines were a dream to play, and except for one of the top rollover lane bulbs going out on Rolling Stones they seemed to hold up really well. Can't beat that.

    #160 8 years ago
    Quoted from Frax:

    Lanes were completely open man...if Marcus wanted to take rubbers off the outlane posts, he could have done so. Same deal with the tilt bob. I set it as a courtesy and expect it to be changed to be tighter by tournament directors using my machines. It's my personal opinion that a solid nudge should give one warning, a shove or good shake two warnings, and any kind of slide is most likely a tilt.

    Yes. This is my fault. I was aware of this prior to the tournament, and even one of the guys down in Austin took me pictures of the damn flipper alignment and I totally forgot to even try to correct it. That's on me. Congo, for whatever dumbass reason, doesn't have the alignment holes, and I can't, for the life of me, figure out how the hell to set the upper flipper to make the mystery cave shot. Personally, short of it being used for the super jackpot, that shot is WAAAAAY too lucrative IMO as it starts both a video mode which can award a crapton of points safely (GO LEFT, MAN!), but also does the 50 million per shot in Amy mode, which on some other Congo I have played is way too easy to repeat shoot from the post held release.
    I'm open on feedback how to adjust the flippers for this game, so let me know in what way you feel they need to be adjusted. I specifically removed Superbands and put on brand new red rubber for this, so it may also be that people were not having to re-acclimate themselves to shots that are at different times on superbands..
    http://pinballtourneys.com/TPF2015/machine_info.php?MName=Congo~~Texas+Tilt+Saturday
    These are not spectacular scores from a bunch of guys that I know for a fact are well acclimated with Congo.. it looks to me like if people felt the times were too long, the tilt needed to be tighter. With good play, Congo is VERY controllable and the rules provide consistent awards.
    Other than this, the only feedback I've gotten was the color changers in ZINJ someone said it was hard to tell if they were lit or not.. if it ever goes back in a tourney bank, I'll put those on a cool white or something. I don't think it's an issue, and it's a cool effect, but hey...I get it.

    On mine I just used a straight edge and aligned the top edge of the flipper to be straight in line with the return lane.

    #161 8 years ago

    BSD was pleasantly punishing, outside of some head-scratching Mist hole rejects. I had some issues with Congo locating the L lock shot due to the slightly high flipper position, but it was perfectly reasonable. AFM was very fast and unforgiving which was awesome. Simpsons seemed to play perfectly. AMH felt like a bit much with the super powered slings and the bouncy side rubbers. POTC had issues with the ship and poorly registering Tortuga targets, but otherwise played fine as did the other DMDs.

    The classics were generally great. Rolling Stones and Viking had me salivating with how beautiful they were. Huge thanks to the generous soul who provided them.

    #162 8 years ago

    Most of my thoughts have been said but I'll chime in with some detail if only to cast my vote since I assume Marcus is reading...

    Less complicated tourneys for sure. The two day qualifiying was just too much I think. Maybe restrict that just to the Wizards tourney and make the others more like the 2014 tourneys where you could qualify on either day. Then maybe add one non-IFPA tourney for non-IFPA rated players so people off the street can get more easily get in on the fun and have a chance at a win. If you're not trying to get casual players into the tourney then why not put it into a conference room to free up space on the floor and help make it more organized. There was no way a person could have decided spur of the moment to enter that and expect any kind of placing (unless KME happened to be in town on business).

    Take down everyone's phone # at registration and when you get the list of players for a match text "5 minutes" to them all. Bet it will still be faster than it was and most importantly people could spend some time on the floor and not hover around Marcus asking for updates. This would have solved all of the technical glitches for me.

    Snailman's point about volunteers is quite valid and I considered it this year but the cost vs reward was just not there. I knew I'd be spending a lot of time on the tourney (though I had no idea how much!) and still wanted time on the floor. 4 hours was too much to take away from what is already a short weekend (did someone say 5 day TPF???). Maybe it was offered and I missed it but letting volunteers in for the exhibitor hours would make it more worthwhile.

    All that being said, I had a great time and appreciate the effort Marcus and the entire team put into the tourneys and trying to maximize points. I have a feeling those complaining about the complexity (wait, didn't I just do that?) will think differently when they compare their TPF points to their next local tourney.

    #163 8 years ago
    Quoted from gtown:

    Snailman's point about volunteers is quite valid and I considered it this year but the cost vs reward was just not there. I knew I'd be spending a lot of time on the tourney (though I had no idea how much!) and still wanted time on the floor. 4 hours was too much to take away from what is already a short weekend (did someone say 5 day TPF???). Maybe it was offered and I missed it but letting volunteers in for the exhibitor hours would make it more worthwhile.

    Yup. This is exactly when I worked (Noon to 4pm on Friday).

    Frax - I had no issues at all with Congo and I don't think there were any real problems with it at all. The longer ball times were reasonable. Just was calling out it was not nearly as brutal as a couple of the other games on the bank especially if you played it safe. No issues hitting any shots except the one through the pops but that was all user issues.

    #164 8 years ago
    Quoted from Frax:

    I watched the player prior to me get a ton of free Wolverine hits...when these people are qualifying a third Wolverine multiball that took ~22 hits to qualify? Come on...really?

    Well since I wasn't there and your statement didn't indicate any prior occurrences, that is why I said I was surprised it was thrown out. I would still have difficulty throwing it out unless there was overwhelming proof or it was a known issue prior to the tournament and started to reoccur.

    Quoted from Frax:

    We had an issue with X-Men LE on saturday, that I discovered while making my score attempt, where you got a wolverine hit with every right flipper hit. All scores before that time were tossed as a result.

    So you saw it on the previous player and rediscovered the issue after you started playing your attempt?

    -4
    #165 8 years ago

    The lower play field of Congo didn't even work. Why is a game in a tournament that doesn't work correctly?

    #166 8 years ago
    Quoted from Lonzo:

    The lower play field of Congo didn't even work. Why is a game in a tournament that doesn't work correctly?

    Doesn't really matter. Everyone has the same handicap.

    #167 8 years ago
    Quoted from Lonzo:

    The lower play field of Congo didn't even work. Why is a game in a tournament that doesn't work correctly?

    It was turned off on purpose to speed up game play. That is a give me anyways as you'll complete it 95%+ of the time but waste 30 seconds doing so.

    Should PAPA not use Addams family with the magnets turned off or AC/DC with the bell magnet disable (just a couple quick examples)? Adjustments to games are often made to speed up game play and or fix exploits.

    #168 8 years ago
    Quoted from Zaxxis:

    So you saw it on the previous player and rediscovered the issue after you started playing your attempt?

    Yes? I'm not that familiar with the game, much less with what tournament tweaks are generally made to the game. We've never had a functional one on location here, I've never owned it...how many times do you think I've played Xmen? I didn't really put 1 and 1 together until I stepped up to the game. It wasn't making any sense to me how the guy was making 11 hits, then 20+ hits to start multiball, but as I had no way to directly observe what was going on...on the playfield for his game, I'm not going to stand up and go "HEY THAT GUY IS CHEATING, WTF IS GOING ON HERE!" I didn't make the call to invalidate the scores. I didn't make a recommendation either way, AFAIK. I did report the error, show that it was easily reproducible and isolated it down to the right flipper button and mech at the direction of Marcus. Stepped away, left the tourney area for a while to run home and get some boards I sold to someone (40 mile round trip..) and then came back and they had fixed it and made the call.

    It's not any different that someone observing me playing Metallica where I can occasionally make 4-in-a-row repeat shots to grave markers in under 20 seconds. If you can't see the playfield, it looks really damn suspicious, because normally that doesn't happen. So yes, I "saw" it on the prior player without fully realizing it was a machine error, but "discovered" the actual error when I went up to the machine, hit the flipper buttons, and got a wolverine hit while still in the shooter lane.

    Make sense?

    Quoted from Lonzo:

    The lower play field of Congo didn't even work. Why is a game in a tournament that doesn't work correctly?

    Read Vett's comment above. It works FINE. Maybe next time ask the tournament director instead of bitching about something you know nothing about? Our phone number was on the machine as well if you had a question about it.

    #169 8 years ago

    After taking some time to think on this event, outside of the software issues, there are a few major changes that I intend to make for any event that I run that has multiple days of qualifications.

    #1. Create a tournament starter package. I will have to figure out a way to make sure that a player can only buy one starter package per event. But once I do figure that out, this will be used moving forward. This way, players will be able to manage their tournament budget easier.

    #2. Increase the number of automatic qualifiers to be greater than or equal to the number of wild card players. So this year, we had a total of 10 players with automatic qualification. Instead, in hindsight, it should have been 16 qualified on Friday and 16 new qualifiers on Saturday. This way, a top 16 Friday or Saturday showing would have secured a playoff spot.

    #3. Create scorekeeping backups on the hour every hour.

    #4. Give players a tool to confirm their scores OUTSIDE of the scorekeeping process.

    #5. Improve scorekeeping so that scores can be captured immediately without process time. Strive to capture all scores in 30 seconds or less.

    #6. Add physical communication devices such as Posters, Whiteboards, etc. This will be used to communicate any changes to the event. These changes would include game line up, tilt penalties, balls to play, etc.

    #7. Bring back the fun. Have 1-2 "MAX" IFPA point events. Then run events that will score whatever they score.

    These are just a few of my thoughts.

    I'm sure I'll come up with some more.

    Thanks to all of you who offered constructive criticism!

    Marcus

    #170 8 years ago
    Quoted from Xerico:

    #1. Create a tournament starter package. I will have to figure out a way to make sure that a player can only buy one starter package per event. But once I do figure that out, this will be used moving forward. This way, players will be able to manage their tournament budget easier.

    For this one, just only allow it to be sold in connection to an entry ticket into the show. Nobody would by an extra entry for a discount starter packet as it would cost more. Seems like an easy way to make that happen.

    Love all the ideas and I look forward to next year!

    #171 8 years ago

    Sounds like good improvements Marcus. Thanks.

    -1
    #172 8 years ago

    I see TPF has still not fixed tournament issues since 2013.... Which is why I've never been back.

    I don't understand what is so hard. I've ran tons of local events and 1 PAPA Circuit event.

    They're plenty of resources out there now to help TD run great events. It sounds like someone wants to do it their way and not the best way.

    I heard from several players in my league it was once again a cluster &^#@

    Sad to hear this because as far as the show goes TPF is amazing!!!

    #173 8 years ago
    Quoted from Xerico:

    #1. Create a tournament starter package. I will have to figure out a way to make sure that a player can only buy one starter package per event. But once I do figure that out, this will be used moving forward. This way, players will be able to manage their tournament budget easier.

    I am unsure what this will accomplish.

    Quoted from Xerico:

    #2. Increase the number of automatic qualifiers to be greater than or equal to the number of wild card players. So this year, we had a total of 10 players with automatic qualification. Instead, in hindsight, it should have been 16 qualified on Friday and 16 new qualifiers on Saturday. This way, a top 16 Friday or Saturday showing would have secured a playoff spot.

    Why not just get rid of all of this qualifier stuff? I understand trying to do something different but in the few tournaments that have attempted this (Allentown is another), it's typically confusing to players or they somehow feel cheated if they don't get to attend both days.

    Quoted from Xerico:

    #3. Create scorekeeping backups on the hour every hour.

    If you control the software stack, why not make this every 5 minutes to reduce the possibility of lost data?

    When I used Karl's software at Expo two years ago, the local server we used (Raspberry Pi) did a full backup every minute and uploaded this to my external site for everyone to view. The database is tiny, especially after compression. This also meant I had a minute by minute file backup of all my data.

    This year, since we didn't use a local server, we used my virtual server, and the same thing occurred but was sent to another virtual server.

    Quoted from Xerico:

    #4. Give players a tool to confirm their scores OUTSIDE of the scorekeeping process.
    #5. Improve scorekeeping so that scores can be captured immediately without process time. Strive to capture all scores in 30 seconds or less.

    Near-instant updates online is the way to go. Nothing beats the ability to pull out your phone and within 60 seconds see your score online.

    Quoted from Xerico:

    #7. Bring back the fun. Have 1-2 "MAX" IFPA point events. Then run events that will score whatever they score.

    A fun tournament has nothing to do whether IFPA points are involved. It's like cake. We all love cake, but some like it with ice cream on the side. Having ice cream on the side doesn't make the cake no longer good for those who dislike ice cream

    Here is what I would do:

    1. Main Tournament : Texas Pinball Championships
    2. Side Tournament : Classics, Pingolf, Whatever
    3. Side Tournament : Women, Kids, etc running on the same games as Main

    Extra tournaments for fun: Run single day side events leveraging the games in the hall. You can run a best of three bracket, pingolf, split flippers, whatever. Random draw, etc. Have someone you trust run the tournament and off they go. Heck, make these all novice tournaments.

    #174 8 years ago

    I agree Zaxxis.

    Run the tournament for fun not work it to make more WPPRs.

    I'm just going to run my events they way I want and let the WPPRs fall where they may.

    #175 8 years ago
    Quoted from Sc1f1:

    I agree Zaxxis.
    Run the tournament for fun not work it to make more WPPRs.
    I'm just going to run my events they way I want and let the WPPRs fall where they may.

    Everyone I've spoken with lately who runs tournaments is talking about maximizing wpprs under the new rules. I think it's partly a perception issue: a combination of the removal of the base value as well as no longer being able to combine main and side wppr points. Tournaments seem to be "worth less" so every effort is made to squeeze the max points out.

    I think the situation will mellow out in time as people get used to the new normal. The fact that some tourneys will now be too grindy for some peoples' taste is a small problem compared to the problems of the old system.

    I agree, though, run the tournaments the way you want and let the wppr chips fall where they may. For all but a small number of players it's about the fun and social aspects of competition.

    #176 8 years ago
    Quoted from Zaxxis:

    I am unsure what this will accomplish.

    It addresses one of the concerns in my previous posts

    PROBLEMS FOR NOOBS:

    1) Registration personnel do not have any clue how the tournament works. As a result may people end up buying a single ticket unaware that it is effectively worthless.

    The idea is that we don't have noobs buying a single ticket and playing 1 game thinking they they have a chance to qualify based on that one ticket. Noobs should understand what they are getting into, and that they need to play every game to even have a shot.

    #177 8 years ago
    Quoted from Zaxxis:

    I am unsure what this will accomplish.

    This will make the initial entry into the tournaments cheaper. Players will have an opportunity to play the entire bank for a lower initial cost. It will then be up to the player to decide how much more to invest into the tournament. We can also provide a "cheat sheet" that shows clear qualification times, qualification rules and general rules for the machines in the tournament.

    Quoted from Zaxxis:

    Why not just get rid of all of this qualifier stuff? I understand trying to do something different but in the few tournaments that have attempted this (Allentown is another), it's typically confusing to players or they somehow feel cheated if they don't get to attend both days.

    I think it will be pretty simple to follow moving forward. If you are in the top 16 players on Day 1 (for example), you qualify for Tournament Playoffs. If you are in the top 16 on Day 2, then you qualify for Tournament Playoffs. If you are a Saturday Top 16, and you qualified on Day 1, your spot will be given to the next person in line. Each day's qualification will fill 40% of the tournament's playoff spots.

    If you do not qualify on Friday or Saturday, you still have a chance to qualify as a Wild Card, or 20% of the playoff field. Players that played on Friday & Saturday will have a better chance than those that did not.

    I will favor the players that played both days over a player that only played one.

    If a player feels cheated about not being able to have two chances at qualifying, then I cannot control his feelings. The rules will be set well in advance.

    Quoted from Zaxxis:

    If you control the software stack, why not make this every 5 minutes to reduce the possibility of lost data?
    When I used Karl's software at Expo two years ago, the local server we used (Raspberry Pi) did a full backup every minute and uploaded this to my external site for everyone to view. The database is tiny, especially after compression. This also meant I had a minute by minute file backup of all my data.
    This year, since we didn't use a local server, we used my virtual server, and the same thing occurred but was sent to another virtual server.

    This statement is not related to the software. It is a measure that I will put in place in case the software fails. It is simply a clean copy of the scores. It will be a local copy stored on a laptop that is not connected to the tournament in any way. Our problem this year was not caused by a failure to properly update the online server. Our problem was caused by scores disappearing after we had captured it and used it for point calculation.

    If I have a clean back up of the scores, I will be able to have another software program, different than the one being used in the tournament, to quickly calculate scores and get us back and running in the event of a software failure.

    I was not prepared for software failure. I will not make that mistake again. I will be prepared to move forward quickly should the software fail to run properly.

    Quoted from Zaxxis:

    A fun tournament has nothing to do whether IFPA points are involved. It's like cake. We all love cake, but some like it with ice cream on the side. Having ice cream on the side doesn't make the cake no longer good for those who dislike ice cream
    Here is what I would do:
    1. Main Tournament : Texas Pinball Championships
    2. Side Tournament : Classics, Pingolf, Whatever
    3. Side Tournament : Women, Kids, etc running on the same games as Main
    Extra tournaments for fun: Run single day side events leveraging the games in the hall. You can run a best of three bracket, pingolf, split flippers, whatever. Random draw, etc. Have someone you trust run the tournament and off they go. Heck, make these all novice tournaments.

    In the eyes of the IFPA, all tournaments are the same. There are no "side tournaments" anymore.

    But I plan to do something very similar to what you propose for all of my future events.

    1. The "100%" IFPA Tournament(s) w/32 player Playoffs on Sunday: One, maybe two tournaments that strive to have 20 hours of qualifying and 20 significant games.

    2. The "fun" IFPA Tournament(s) w/split division Playoffs (8/8/8): Two, maybe three tournaments that strive to have 20 hours of qualifying and a quick playoff system to crown the winners of each division.

    3. The "fun" non-IFPA Tournament(s): Women, Kids, Seniors, Teens, 8-Man Battle Royal, etc. These are events that simply award trophies and/or other prizes.

    As I have said before, lessons were learned. Our Texas tournaments will continue to evolve as we find that happy medium between costs, points and fun.

    I won't change the minds of those that have written off anything that I do in Texas, so I'm not going to waste a single thought on trying to win them back.

    Instead, I'm going to focus on the players that are interested in attending again. And it's their feedback that will drive me to adjust and try again.

    Marcus

    -1
    #178 8 years ago
    Quoted from Frax:

    Read Vett's comment above. It works FINE. Maybe next time ask the tournament director instead of bitching about something you know nothing about? Our phone number was on the machine as well if you had a question about it.

    Screw you. I am well aware of how Congo works since I have a very nice version in my collection. If you would read my question you can see that I wasnt bitching but asking a question. This was my first tournament and I thought it was odd.

    Vett answered my question in a normal manner and it makes sense so that is fine.

    #179 8 years ago
    Quoted from Xerico:

    32 player Playoffs on Sunday:

    Good luck with that when you have a hard show close time of 2:30

    Quoted from Xerico:

    I won't change the minds of those that have written off anything that I do in Texas, so I'm not going to waste a single thought on trying to win them back.

    Not with that attitude you won't. When people experienced in the national tournament scene offer suggestions on how you can improve things so that Texas isn't regarded as a laughingstock, perhaps it might be useful to listen. Especially when it's people who run tournaments that are well regarded by the scene.

    #180 8 years ago
    Quoted from DarthXaos:

    Good luck with that when you have a hard show close time of 2:30

    I wasn't speaking specifically about TPF. Just in any of my tournaments in the future.

    Timing would be changed to accommodate a time limit.

    Marcus

    #181 8 years ago
    Quoted from Lonzo:

    If you would read my question you can see that I wasnt bitching but asking a question.

    Quoted from Lonzo:

    The lower play field of Congo didn't even work. Why is a game in a tournament that doesn't work correctly?

    little bit both ways there.

    #182 8 years ago
    Quoted from Frax:

    Other than this, the only feedback I've gotten was the color changers in ZINJ someone said it was hard to tell if they were lit or not.. if it ever goes back in a tourney bank, I'll put those on a cool white or something. I don't think it's an issue, and it's a cool effect, but hey...I get it.

    Congo was fine, but one of the balls in the game looked like a golf ball with dimples. I would find it and change it out.

    #183 8 years ago

    Thanks Marcus!

    I think you know my feelings on the tournaments this past weekend. I really appreciate your responsiveness and hope things will be better next year - these sound like very positive changes. Is this the plan for the Houston Expo this fall as well?

    On another note, it seems like it wouldn't be too hard to simulate a large tournament via a bunch of automated entries to see how the software can handle it. Is that something that's possible with the current software?

    #184 8 years ago
    Quoted from DarthXaos:

    It addresses one of the concerns in my previous posts

    The idea is that we don't have noobs buying a single ticket and playing 1 game thinking they they have a chance to qualify based on that one ticket. Noobs should understand what they are getting into, and that they need to play every game to even have a shot.

    I suggested the starter pack idea to Bowen a few years ago at CAX for exactly the same reasons. I think it sort of worked, not sure. Maybe he can comment.

    For all tournaments where the TD expects to be too busy to explain the rules a million times, or where an orientation isn't really practical (too loud, no set start time for all players, etc), the full rules should be posted somewhere in the tourney area.

    I also suggest a one page simple explanation of how the tournament works. It should include:

    1)The basic format
    2)The schedule (even if approximate, i.e. Finals will start 6 PM or ASAP after Qualifying ends)
    3)Link to online standings web site
    4)Link to online full rules, and/or make players aware that full rules are posted in the tournament area.
    5)How to get help.

    This last part I always phrase like this:

    "If you have questions, remember, there is only one of me and a lot of you. Please:

    1) Read the posted rules
    2) Ask another player
    3) Ask a score keeper

    If your question is still not answered, feel free to ask me."

    Another idea I had for PAGG (but got lazy) was making a short "How the tournament works" video and posting it here on pinside. I think it would serve the dual purpose of informing some participants directly but also enabling them to knowledgeably answer other players' questions at the event itself.

    #185 8 years ago
    Quoted from Xerico:

    This will make the initial entry into the tournaments cheaper. Players will have an opportunity to play the entire bank for a lower initial cost. It will then be up to the player to decide how much more to invest into the tournament. We can also provide a "cheat sheet" that shows clear qualification times, qualification rules and general rules for the machines in the tournament.

    This is what I was thinking it was going to be, just was a little unclear based on your initial comment -- thanks!

    Quoted from Xerico:

    As I have said before, lessons were learned. As I have said before, lessons were learned. Our Texas tournaments will continue to evolve as we find that happy medium between costs, points and fun.
    I won't change the minds of those that have written off anything that I do in Texas, so I'm not going to waste a single thought on trying to win them back.
    Instead, I'm going to focus on the players that are interested in attending again. And it's their feedback that will drive me to adjust and try again.

    Yup, just trying to provide some feedback based on what I've seen and experienced. I personally want to see good tournaments at TPF as I'd love to come and experience both the show and the tournaments

    #186 8 years ago
    Quoted from DarthXaos:

    Good luck with that when you have a hard show close time of 2:30

    Not with that attitude you won't. When people experienced in the national tournament scene offer suggestions on how you can improve things so that Texas isn't regarded as a laughingstock, perhaps it might be useful to listen. Especially when it's people who run tournaments that are well regarded by the scene.

    Ask noah davis, state champion of oregon, if Texas is a laughingstock

    #187 8 years ago

    Thanks Marcus, Ken, Robert, Ed and all the volunteers. Running a massive set of tournaments at a large show is a big task. I've finally gotten around to reading all the comments. Good constructive feedback. But another set of thanks from me to all those that busted their asses running it.

    For those that might not have been there, or were there and haven't played in many other tournaments, the game selection and quality at TPF this year was far above and beyond all other tournaments, with few exceptions. Finding the number of high quality games, despite some of the mechanical issues encountered, is a rarity in the world of tournament pinball. When I walked in I was amazed, and I had been to TPF before and plenty of tournaments around the country. Not even the games at the National Championship / Pinmasters were as nice as TPF's this weekend. So grats on that.

    Regarding the issues that were encountered, that happens. It's Murphy's law. It happened to the Fairfax Pinball Open last year that was a PAPA Circuit event. As executive director of FPO, I've never been so stressed. But the overall player base had patience and we worked it out. But it was tough, as was what you guys experienced during this year's TPF.

    I'll make some pointers to Marcus directly as I have some things I can help bring to the table from other tournaments, etc. Many of the same points other posters have mentioned, and a few more. TPF as a show, and the unending efforts that everyone involved go through to make these tournaments happen really make me want TPF to be an even bigger success. Yes, many tournament players may pan TPF tournaments based on their own experience or previous issues. And yes, I took my own medicine on accidentally continuing in A division when I should have dropped to B after a loss, winning a few matches in A, then dropping to B where I was out because the other player had lost a match. So be it, shit happens. And do I want to spend that much money on tournaments? Well, I do plan to spend money on big tournaments and spent my budgeted $200, but easily could have spent $300 if I really wanted to do well in all 5.

    Having said that, it's still a fun experience, minus the waiting around all night Saturday night - but that is easily fixed and I plan on helping out in those areas next year as much as Marcus and company want me to. TPF is such an awesome show and really such a good time that all of the issues encountered this year can be smoothed out. There are lots of players such as myself that have learned a LOT of lessons through running a variety of tournaments, that we can...maybe even are somewhat obligated...to assist others in making their tournaments a bigger success.

    I look forward to next year, the incredible games that will be in the tournament, and a much smoother experience. Regardless of what did happen, it was an awesome time hanging out with everyone, grinding for position and getting to know more and more pinball enthusiasts.

    Give TPF tournaments another chance and don't forget to enjoy the show. I did this time around and had a great time.

    #188 8 years ago

    I have never been to TPF but I have heard quite a few stories over the years about the quality of the tournaments there. I've been to dozens of tourneys and run a league. One thing that has always held true is that you cannot make everyone happy 100% of the time. You just strive to keep most everybody happy and try to deal with the complaints as they arise. Above all, try to keep it simple. The overwhelming thing I get from reading all of this is that the TD's at TPF just tried to to do to many things in one weekend. KISS(keep it simple stupid).

    #189 8 years ago
    Quoted from Noahs_Arcade:

    Ask noah davis, state champion of oregon, if Texas is a laughingstock

    Oh, snap!

    #190 8 years ago
    Quoted from Xerico:

    I think it will be pretty simple to follow moving forward. If you are in the top 16 players on Day 1 (for example), you qualify for Tournament Playoffs. If you are in the top 16 on Day 2, then you qualify for Tournament Playoffs. If you are a Saturday Top 16, and you qualified on Day 1, your spot will be given to the next person in line. Each day's qualification will fill 40% of the tournament's playoff spots.
    If you do not qualify on Friday or Saturday, you still have a chance to qualify as a Wild Card, or 20% of the playoff field. Players that played on Friday and Saturday will have a better chance than those that did not. I will favor the players that played both days over a player that only played one.

    Marcus, this is not "pretty simple". I don't understand the logic behind treating the 2 days of qualifying as separate events. Favoring people who played on both days is just favoritism, and it feels like a cash grab. It's not a deal-breaker for me, but it makes me think you haven't absorbed all of the feedback. Consider me a concerned friend.

    #191 8 years ago

    I've never been to a big show for less than the entire time, but I agree that a single qualification event is more fair for everyone. Those who can't make it Friday can still have a shot, and those who can make it still have Saturday to improve scores

    #192 8 years ago

    I think Marcus' intention is that it should be easier to get a guaranteed spot in the tournament on a single day. This is the reason for expanding the top 5 to the top 16.

    This doesn't address the issue with seeding being based on both days, but it's something.

    #193 8 years ago
    Quoted from alveolus:

    BSD was pleasantly punishing, outside of some head-scratching Mist hole rejects. I had some issues with Congo locating the L lock shot due to the slightly high flipper position, but it was perfectly reasonable. AFM was very fast and unforgiving which was awesome. Simpsons seemed to play perfectly. AMH felt like a bit much with the super powered slings and the bouncy side rubbers. POTC had issues with the ship and poorly registering Tortuga targets, but otherwise played fine as did the other DMDs.
    The classics were generally great. Rolling Stones and Viking had me salivating with how beautiful they were. Huge thanks to the generous soul who provided them.

    RS and Viking were mine. Glad you enjoyed them....

    #194 8 years ago

    Does the seeding on both days have something to do with maximizing IFPA points for the event?

    #195 8 years ago

    Yes. The "quality games" stipulation.

    Though, I believe it was the same at the Houston show, so I'm not sure of the exact reasoning

    #196 8 years ago
    Quoted from Snailman:

    It was a treat to play your Rolling Stones and Viking. Your Viking was a big reason why I won the retro tourney. Thanks again for sharing your pins with us.

    So was it your score of 1.2M on the Viking with the 7Volution set in it? If so, I came looking for you to give you a t-shirt.

    #197 8 years ago
    Quoted from DNO:

    Congo was fine, but one of the balls in the game looked like a golf ball with dimples. I would find it and change it out.

    I'll look into it. Balls got all jumbled up in the pack-up, and I have a bunch of new ones standing by. Thanks for the heads-up, appreciate that. Was great to get to play with you and Adam (even though I did not get to play directly against you), it's very rare for me to have that kind of chance, and interesting to watch you guys that can actually attend the "majors" and PAPA events play.

    Quoted from Lonzo:

    Screw you. I am well aware of how Congo works since I have a very nice version in my collection. If you would read my question you can see that I wasnt bitching but asking a question. This was my first tournament and I thought it was odd.
    Vett answered my question in a normal manner and it makes sense so that is fine.

    Epic backpedal. And sorry, I don't swing for dudes. Clearly, you didn't think it was odd enough to ask anyone at the show.

    #198 8 years ago
    Quoted from Frax:

    I'll look into it. Balls got all jumbled up in the pack-up, and I have a bunch of new ones standing by. Thanks for the heads-up, appreciate that. Was great to get to play with you and Adam (even though I did not get to play directly against you), it's very rare for me to have that kind of chance, and interesting to watch you guys that can actually attend the "majors" and PAPA events play.

    Epic backpedal. And sorry, I don't swing for dudes. Clearly, you didn't think it was odd enough to ask anyone at the show.

    I didn't ask anybody because the ball was missing so I knew it had not been working/disabled for everybody and not something that may have broke.

    And for the gay reference....Classy.

    #199 8 years ago
    Quoted from Frax:

    Lonzo said:

    The lower play field of Congo didn't even work. Why is a game in a tournament that doesn't work correctly?

    Read Vett's comment above. It works FINE. Maybe next time ask the tournament director instead of bitching about something you know nothing about? Our phone number was on the machine as well if you had a question about it.

    Congo's lower PF not enabled is a non-issue. Completing the lower PF is basically automatic when it is on.

    #200 8 years ago
    Quoted from Lonzo:

    I didn't ask anybody because the ball was missing so I knew it had not been working/disabled for everybody and not something that may have broke.
    And for the gay reference....Classy.

    Took it out for transport..don't like things getting smashed for no good reason. Talked to Marcus about turning it on/leaving it off...was decided to leave it off so why be arsed to put a ball back in there?

    No gay reference, I simply don't bang dudes, therefore, I decline your offer of a screw. However, I am going to opt to end this argument between us. Permanently.

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