I love animation.
Toy Story is one of the greatest trilogies ever (I’m ignoring 4 lol).

I’m out. Too many things about JJP rub me the wrong way. Issues aside, I have enough crazy fun crazy deep new games to entertain me. I don’t need it.

Depth doesn’t always equal fun. It usually just means a game has to be easy and play for 45 min because there’s too much content crammed into it.

Exactly. That’s why it’s pointless to shame games based on “depth”. Depth isn’t a sliding scale for quality or fun. Bad games are bad for deeper reasons than lack of depth.

I love P-Warbs, but he's NOT Buzz Lightyear. Sure, he was Buzz on the Disney Channel cartoon, but he just sounds like Joe from Family Guy. He's also not cheap...he's an accomplished award winning SAG actor.

Hahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaah no.

Forky is really annoying. It’s basically repeating the Woody/Buzz dynamic if Buzz was mentally challenged & suicidal. It gets old pretty quickly. Pixar usually catches you with an honest emotional hook that gets you in the gut. TS4’s attempt at that really felt forced, manufactured and inauthentic. TS1 is just a great entertaining film. TS2 & 3 have some real human moments that being a tear to your eye. TS4, I felt nothing.

What an insult to a great film that was made for & enjoyed by anyone of any age. I thought we were past this ignorance about animation being trash for kids.

Your loss.

OMG, it’s TS4 specifically?!?! This is the biggest whiff & botch of a license I’ve ever seen.

TS 1 & 2 are incredible & 3 is a solid cap to a trilogy. 4 was a cash grab & kinda sucks. If they just called it “Toy Story” and had some stuff from 4, cool - but actually CALLING IT “TOY STORY 4”?!?! OMG…I would love to know how/why this happened.

Anyway - easy hard pass for me. I love TS as a whole, but I hate TS4 as an individual movie.

I know it was prob a licensing issue, but I imagined a moving/talking Potatohead on the playfield, insulting you as you play. Could have been the “Rudy” of this game.

Potatohead was in TS4. They still could have made the game based on elements of the entire series and left out Potato.

Sounds like the same slot machine synth as Wonka. Thiel is a god.

Woody, too....but not Tom Hanks. Likely his brother.

I take it you’ve never seen Ghostbusters?

19615903-7A25-462E-A8A9-D8641A537442 (resized).jpeg

I've got 4 Lawlor games that collectively cost less than half of the LE. So, for me - yeah I need to see Lawlor doing something REEAAAAALLLY rad to bite. I realize I'm not the target customer anymore, but I do buy new games occasionally (R&M, Godzilla, Rush, UM all quasi-recently). The films' gimmick is toys "COMING TO LIFE"...and all the character toys are just static figures. Forky is so spazzy, at least put him on a coil & spring. Figure out how to put Jessie on Bullseye & "run around". Buzz's wings could be a ramp that retracts or acts as a diverter. Even just having Rex & Hamm with moving heads and/or jaws. Zurg with light up eyes. The CLAW or even the claw machine with little aliens jumping around.

IMO this doesn't feel like a Toy Story machine...it feels like a "Pat Lawlor Brand" machine with a Toy Story skin.

My little girl likes Rick & Morty, Revenge from Mars and Jurassic Park, lol. She loves Frozen, Little Mermaid and Muppets...strangely, she doesn't give AF about Toy Story. Maybe when she's older - I think the plot is more relatable after you've grown up a bit.

Yeah, it's like...sure, 4 partially takes place at a carnival, but carnival just isn't really what you think of when you think of Toy Story. Disnelyland's Toy Story area leans into the carnival game thing...but that makes sense AT a theme park.

Youssi….but it seems to be mostly pre-made stuff from Pixar’s product style guide that he’s arranged in Photoshop.

Emotions are working against the game. People are emotionally invested in TS1-3. No one has any emotion for 4, and the fact that it’s just 4 is creating a negative emotional response. Every single person I know who was on a list has cancelled/bailed. Yes, anecdotal - obviously the games will still…but the usual suspects that I know who buy everything have fled.

My theories:

-Pat or someone at JJP thought that “TS4” is contemporary & the others are old, so people would like that more.

-Pat saw the carnival & EM pinball machine in 4, and gravitated toward that.

-Pat or Joe said “I’m not stuffing 4 movies worth of modes and content into this thing, most people play for 5 minutes & drain”.

The only possible thing I can think of Pixar/Disney possibly caring about is mixing clips of all 4 on the LCD, as each one looked pretty different than the last as technology got better & better. Perhaps they wanted a cohesive aesthetic.

That’s not how it works. Toy Story IS the license. Each movie doesn’t have a price tag, it’s an overall franchise license. An animated franchise does not have the same licensing issues as live action movies.

You’re comparing live action to animation. Different beasts, different contracts. Toy Story: The License is NOT charged per movie with different movies being different prices. Directors of animated movies aren’t DGA, and the characters on screen don’t have agents and likeness rights contracts.

You’re not understanding my point.

Of course the contract has specifics and Disney made the rules of what can and can’t be used. All I’m saying is that the people who think Toy Story has different “per film” licenses and costs for consumer products is WRONG. It’s not TS4 because “that’s the cheap one”. Toy Story is an overall valuable IP. There aren’t tiers of licensing prices based on each movie.

LOL - Jim’s been doing all the Woody merch/product voices since the 90’s. If you ever had a talking Woody toy that says “There’s a snake in my boot”, it’s Jim, not Tom.

Well, you can chose to not trust me. But trust me. “Toy Story” is the license. It’s not film by film…there’s no “cheaper”. You’re paying to be a Toy Story product, period. However, for an application like this that uses film assets, it’s likely Disney said “only use TS4” for aesthetic reasons…the films all look so different, it’s more cohesive as a product to just use 4.

LOL, OK. If that makes you feel better.

Who cares, the game is TS4 and there’s nothing we can do now.

Because Disney movies were historically known for their white male protagonists.

A1F88083-B4D9-4B48-AD35-9357A61D0B65.png

Being an angry sexist racist must be exhausting. Try, ya know…the opposite?

We just have to accept that for some people, this is pocket change. So, they’ll buy it & enjoy it…or buy it & sell it. No big whoop.

Video modes are for CHODES.

That’s the Boomeriest of Boomer takes. If kids wanna look at a screen, they all have screens. It’s a normal part of life, not something that’s going to impress them in a pinball machine. They’ll either like pinball or they won’t. On top of that, this game is too expensive for operators. You won’t see them in kiddie locations.

I have a 2 1/2 year old, and we don’t have an iPad in the house. Thankfully, she rarely wants to grab our phones - usually she just wants to see pictures or videos of herself. She’s going to have such a different set of references than her friends …she loves vinyl records, Pee-Wee’s playhouse, and pinball.

Because most people can’t play before buying if everyone is FOMO crazy & the game is likely to sell out. We can only form an opinion based on the information we have.

Well, one of the weird “perks” of covid was working from home. Without the time & energy wasted on commuting, I’ve been able to spend waaaaay more quality time with her than I would have otherwise. I make her breakfast every day, I take her to the park, we go swimming, read books, play games, watch movies, go to the farmers market, etc. It’s awesome. I know things will change - but I hope our bond from these early years stays strong & gets us through the challenges.

I’m lucky my toddler has a great attention span and a taste for good movies lol. As someone who grew up loving video games & TV/movies, I almost feel like a hypocrite feeling this way - but I think it’s been proven that social media is waaaay more addicting & dangerous than anything we grew up with. It’ll be tough to navigate this with my kids. Kinda hoping by the time mine are old enough, kids rebel against technology & are into community gardening or something lol.

Cuz it has an animatronic T-Rex that eats my balls. Do Buzz & Woody move & eat my balls?! Pat Lawlor made Rudy eat my balls. Come on, eat my balls JJP!!!

Good thing Pat made his masterpiece, Family Guy, before Disney owned it!

Yup. At the time, it was Sterns most “Williams feeling” game. Until R&M, it had the most custom comedy dialog any game ever had. It had a unique toy no one had ever seen. The rules are awesome & deep. Great David Thiel music & sound. It’s a great game. Pat did the license justice, even though he hated it lol

LOL - Pat hated the license, not his own work. The game shoots great.

JP was like $7k prem & $9k LE when it came out. I’m sure for $12k/$15k, they could have gotten more assets.

Consider the time in pinball history. Gary & Pat were both interested in operators & location, but they both had a totally different view. Pat saw FGY as something limited to adult locations only. Bars, period. He knew they couldn’t sell any to family locations - or even family home collectors. Gary, knowing how well South Park sold & earned, saw it as a winner for bar/college locations & for home buyers who wanted a game with some comedy/edge. Gary called all the shots on themes, and often bumped heads with the designers. Ritchie had to beg & scream to do Spider-Man…Gary thought it was some baby kid theme like Barney & didn’t want to do it. Gary kept trying to do what he thought would be great “adult/bar” themes like WOF, 24 & CSI - and those themes dragged the company to its lowest point. Stern still does some adult-ish themes like GOT & Walking Dead, but they’re more “cool” pop culture themes that people are really passionate about.

I’m not sure if Pat hated FGY overall, but he hated it as a pinball theme. That being said, he was totally professional & watched every single episode. He had a ton of great ideas to translate the show into pinball. The initial pitch of the mini pinball was that it was a Stewie mind control invention. I don’t think that “plot” is really there in the final game, but it still works. We shot some ideas down, but gave him a ton of others & he rolled with them. He originally wanted the evil monkey to be moving around on a track, like the DI guy. We didn’t think the monkey should be out all the time…since he always hides in the closet. So, the monkey became the ramp flap target. I pitched that it would be funny for there to be a Meg shot that’s just there to beat on her, and that ended up in the game. We were trying to get Herbert in the game, but Stern said “no pedophiles in the game”….but then they hired Trudeau….oooph.

Nope, I wish. I’d have more pins lol

I think it’s because that was the original promise & premise of JJP. Jack created it because his customers didn’t want “cheap, shallow, photoshop Sterns with no mechs”. They were supposed to be “the next Bally Williams”. They’ve never quite reached that promise, and players/buyers are still hoping for it, only to be disappointed in some fashion each new release.

I think the best games have deep rules that don’t make you feel useless if you’re not good enough to get there. They still have fun & satisfying things “close to the start button”. Some
of the newer Sterns have gotten really good at this.

JP - Deep AF & very hard - but, almost any newb can hit the car, feed the T-Rex, start the Raptor Multiball, and see at least 1 paddock.

GZ - Also deep & difficult - but anyone can bash the building & prob start a Multiball. Getting a Kaiju battle isn’t too tough. Bashing Mecha Godzilla is pretty straightforward.

Rush - To understand & enjoy all the depth is for experts, but almost anyone can start a song mode & enjoy.

A well thought out design/ruleset can be fun for casuals & not be dumbed down.

Normally I’d agree - but after JP, I’m open to a new pinball narrative, especially if Elwin did it…and they got the real Doc & Biff for callouts, and the player was Marty or a new kid to go on new time travel adventures….it could work.

That was my fear with Rush, especially since Lyman loved Rush - I really wanted him coding this game. That being said, the game & code are absolutely fantastic…it’s one of my favorites, bolted to the floor! I think Lyman would have loved it.

No? It's been explained multiple times by multiple people.
TS1 was a revolutionary and iconic film.
TS2 was a rare sequel that's better than the original.
TS3 was the cap on a trilogy that everyone assumed would suck, but was actually awesome.
TS4 was a cash grab about a suicidal fork.

Not really. The focus is on Woody, Bo Peep and Fucky...the rest are pretty much sidelined. People love Toy Story for the STORY...people still love the first one despite some wonky animation. Story is king. TS4's extra detail didn't make it a better story.

Also, the word is "animation.” Stop saying "animations,” world!

Please learn how to use the quote function.

Corrected mine for you - looks weird, though. Cool. Now stop saying “animations.”

It’s not bad, but it’s not TS1-3. Pinsiders opinions on this aren’t an aberrant hot take. TS1-3 had emotional resonance. TS4 is an OK movie people watched once. Even people who liked it don’t CARE about it.

Cool, enjoy! $12-15k well spent, then!

I'm sure you'll be able to convince people that TS4 is a better film than TS1-3 because of the "graphics."

What strawman? I’m not even arguing with you. If you dig it, enjoy.

I subscribed to Discovery+ without commercials just so we could watch TLC shows & NOT even have to accidentally see that disgusting shit.

Keep waiting. Get to the wizard mode a few hundred times on your suicidal fork carnival game.

Our long national nightmare is over!!!

Ummmm....Lasseter ...um....don't know how to tell you this....um....doesn't work for Pixar anymore.

A friend of ours brought her nephews over (5 & 8, I think). They’d never heard of pinball before. I fired up Godzilla for them, and they took to it immediately. Apparently they can’t stop talking about it & it was the favorite part of their trip to CA. I told them about locations they can go play pinball back home. It’ll be interesting to see if it blossoms as a new hobby for them!

Not sure why you've chosen this stance as a hill to die on...

Pixar movies are not made for small children. For example - their last movie, Turning Red, is about menstruation & puberty.

Well get ready for JJP’s Little Mermaid 2: Ariel’s Beginning!

Jason? LOL

I’m not sure I understand having a topper that repeats the game’s title with the wrong logo/font. Aesthetically unpleasant.

He was on the list months before the reveal, because he thought it was going to be Toy Story, not TS4.

Well, his distributor wanted a deposit to get locked in. Oh well!

Of course he's complaining...he thought it was going to be actual Toy Story and Lawlor's best ever...but it turned out to be "Carnival with Toy Story 4 assets sort of" with nothing cool on the playfield.

I enjoy Toy Story 1-3

How can anyone be turned away when they didn’t sell out?

The 100 JJP sold online sold out. Distros did not sell out. They all have them available. Lots of people were on lists without deposits and instantly went NOPE.

You can’t base MSRP on the flipper market. Flippers may be selling for over MSRP, but to how many buyers? 10? 50? 100? JJP wants to sell 6000 units. 6000 people aren’t ready to pay “flipper prices.”

B+ for BUY BUY BUY!

I give the game an F- for FLOP FLOP FLOP.

If pinball people “don’t understand how to play” a game - that’s on the game, not the player.

Revenge from Mars, Goldeneye, No Good Gofers.

Stop lying, please. R&M has great code, tons of modes, and just got an update with a bunch of new dimensions. R&M’s code, rules, sound & theme integration run circles around TSBore.

Have fun seeing all of TSBore on the first play, Liar McLiarson.

Most people don’t see past a mode or two per game on R&M due to the difficulty….and like any game, difficulty can be adjusted thru physical settings or code.

Super weird that you pick on R&M’s code. It has more mode content than most games. Did you sell it before Scary Terry, Rick Potion No 9, and Moonmen were added? The multiballs are extremely difficult as well. The game is a constant fun challenge. But hey, you got $15k Bo Peep Loops to look forward to!

So you wanted it to be linear? That would be super boring. The incentive to reach was to play, get points, complete the mode, and advance to the next adventure. Getting to the 10th is the only way to play Rick Potion #9 - essentially the wizard mode. You’ve also got tons of dimensions which all have fun/funny gameplay effects & allow you to collect mega seeds - another fun goal. Plus Meseeks, plus Gromflomite MB. We don’t care that you don’t like the game - but it’s just a flat out lie & insult to Erik’s great work to call it “paper thin” and that you see everything in an hour. You’re telling me in 12,000 plays on Wonka, you haven’t seen everything? Your comparative logic is just baffling.

But but but you can see everything in 1 ball!

Unachievable wizard modes might as well not even be there. HOT TAKE.

Usually true. I really waffled about bailing on UM after playing it on location with early code. I'm pretty happy with the game as it stands today -and I've had some long-time hobbyists over to play it, and they enjoyed it.

Also the theme. Guarantee if it was TS1 or 1-3 or 1-4 it would be selling like crazy regardless of price. TS4 is what’s killing it.