Yes, I was even hoping just for TS pin like JP kinda with the characters all having new made up adventures. I’ve not even seen TS4 but have watched 1 and 2 a lot.

Kind of looks like Wonka, but it’ll be in the arcades so no need to order before I play it. Also 1k CE sound like a lot.

They were saying how great it was to have Annie Potts!

As if anyone knows who she is?

Agreed

But it's got Annie Potts!

Who?

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I mean, Disney makes money from selling the rights to its content.

It shouldn’t really matter if it’s TS2 or TS4 it’s not as if one is in the movie theaters now and such it’s old movies. So why do they care if it’s Zerg or Gabbie?

To me JJP will sell a bunch but if it had been another way maybe it would have sold way more.

I was saying TS1-3 or even just TS2 would have been a great theme for me. I just watched TS4 is a lot of PC let the girl be the hero and the boy is just getting in the way. I know it’s the way we need to be PC bla bla bla. The last Pixar movie Red was about a pre teen or teenage girl getting slightly bullied at school or whatever. I lasted 20 minutes into that movie before I had to bail.

Give me the Incredibles or the early TS movies.

I’m curious about this, do you think JJP locked out the other movies or could Stern swoop in and do a TS2 pin?

I see Zerg raising out of the PF a la Iron Monger.

I just watched it, Bo Peep had all masculine energy and Mary Sue abilities. She was rolling her eyes at how Woody couldn’t do anything right much like Poe in The last Jedi.

I think maybe, it does take time tho.

I didn’t order but it certainly felt a lot less frantic than R&M or GnR CE. But this was both higher build and higher price plus the LE is fairly identical to the CE unlike GnR.

Well for me there is probably an auxiliary action of the new pin. I have 14 pins in my home I don’t need to go to the arcade period. However they get a new Toy Story I’m going to the arcade. Then I’m playing TS and other games. If not for TS they’d not have any of my plays on it or the other pins at that location.

I’m fortunate to have 2 great pinball arcades near me they both have TBL, R&M and all the Stern and JJP games between them.

My movie rank :
2
1
3

Long way down

4

I understand your point, and I do love JP as much as a JP sandbox not a movie recreation, and Dead-pool is not the DP movies but more of a DP theme mashup.

I have not played TS but it does look like it's just TS4 playing the scenes (meet at the carousel, Kaboom Jump, Find Forky) that is not a TS sandbox it's a flat out playing TS4 just like Ghostbusters.

I think many people (not me) but a lot of people don't think SW was ruined with the female leads womansplaning to the male leads (as a big example) but they would just look at the boxoffice numbers and say SW made a lot of money and TS4 made a lot of money therefore it's great. Maybe they feel like it's been a long time where the male characters got a lot of the credit as the hero archetype and so it's just time for all the male leads to sit down and get out of the way. That's a lot of what TS4 does.

TS4 movie reminds me of Godfather 3

Except I’ll probably watch GF3 again.

That’s weak sauce. At least nothing to break or adjust.

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If anything, this did take the wind out of the flippers sails.

-high CE number (they could have sold way more GnRCE than they offered but probably couldn’t sell any more TS4 CE). If you think they could’ve sold more than 1000 TSCe I’d say not because the more they offer the less FOMO and less flipper sales they get.

-expensive base model (more money than GZ LE at an practically unlimited number).

-FOMO has its limits. See Halloween and see TS4.

Not to say they’re bad but they are probably fully priced flippers and Kaneda need not apply.

I certainly don't understand this criticism. The game is about a number of disasters threatening the city. Not a lot in DI that reminds me of real life.

A lot of people justify how they don't like something because they have already formed an opinion about it, that's kind of normal I guess.

I think there are two opposing forces. You can have simple rules but the game can kick your ass on the regular. I have TNA which is about as simple as it can get, but that game is an ass kicker and I have only made it to 3 reactors out of 9.

Now if you have some easy goals and the game just allows you to walk through it like nothing that's not fun. Might be fun at first to get a lot of goals real quick or if you are a child, but to me not something that I am dying to add to my collection.

Hoping to pLt TS tomorrow and give my impression because it might not be super easy for me.

I understand, I like the phone charging idea (just me) it's kind of nest to think of all these disasters (maybe I played Sim City in the past).

Putting me in front of a DI is like placing a cucumber behind a cat and they turn around and notice it, yikes!.

This is me when playing GnR, I hate it but that's just my opinion.

I played TS4 today around 20 games and overall it was fun but nothing I feel like I would ever buy, even it was only $9K like a Stern premium, it's just not for me. I think people who like it will like it but just not my cup of tea, I would rate it as one of the lesser JJP games kind of ok not worth $12K imo but some people will surely love it and that's all that matters.

As for the price, I understand it because it'll sell in this pinball market, I was thinking that the price is crazy to me but I am not buying it, someone who likes it will likely see fair value. I want a nice Tron myself and would pay a good deal, but if you look at the number of switches or coils and the the code or what you get in Tron, it's not really worth $8/9/10K but that's what a nice one would go for nowadays.

TLDR:

I got a chance to play TS4 today, there are 3 arcades within 5 miles of each other in Oviedo FL they have many nice pins LE versions of Elvira, JP, GB, TBL, CCR, AFM, Mando, etc.. they have quite a few pro versions and premiums but I think they buy to get the games as quick as possible. I mean they got GZ LE because that was the first out.

One arcade (Arcade Monsters) is an all day pass which was $24 (that's a bit pricy imo) but I support them for getting nice pins. Another (District Eat and Play) is $36 for the month which is much better deal and they have many more pins but they didn't have TS4 yet but they have every other JJP pin.

The third arcade has the most pins (The Pinball Lounge) but they are pay to play like $1/game or $2=3games.

That is just to set the table so to speak that ops can't buy these pins. There were two TS4 LEs within 3 miles of each other.

Here is what I found from playing like 20 games on TS4..

Pros:
TS4 looks nice and well built and solid feeling like every other JJP. The shots were nice the captive ball and ball lock felt nice and rewarding. The Kaboom ramp was very nice and probably the funnest shot on the game. The lights were nice especially the hot rails (or whatever they are called). The game is fun enough to play on location, I wouldn't regret putting $$ into it. I had been worried that the game or the code would be too easy but not to me, it seemed OK difficulty and enough code. I will play TS4 again to me this game is funner than GnR but I really don't click with GnR.

Cons:
The rules are just ok, the call outs are not my favorite ("hit the magenta and yellow shots" or "hit the cyan and green shots" or 'Hit Everything"). I guess they are instructuve tell me to hit the inner orbit or ramp but they don't make me laugh or have anything extra special for me. Maybe because I don't care for the theme being TS4. I am a huge fan of TS 1 and 2 and 3 was good too but TS4 is the weakest BY FAR and didn't use all the characters I really liked. The Theme is a minus as is they theme song played over and over and over. It also suffered form having every shot list up in different colors too much (to much for me) and I hated the digital pinball game. I think the iPad display is a waste everything in it could be on the big display and they virtual game is not for me. I don't like most video modes in pinball but this especially because it takes up a lot of real estate.

The game I played the inner loop feed to the small flipper was not feeding the flipper the ball was typically a quarter inch away from the flipper so it wasn't easy or consistent to make any shot with the small upper flipper. I am not holding that against the game but it didn't play 100% to me. Also don't know if this is typical but the slings seems to be oriented a bit off (to my eye the right sling was a bit more laid back) and the ball would volley back and forth a lot, not always but one time the ball volleyed back and forth like ten times, god I hope that's not normal because it's almost a game killer in my opinion of that's normal. I will again chalk that up to maybe the setup or this specific example.

I like the side rail lights personally. The pin is very colorful and stands out nicely, should kill it on location especially for casual players.

I am not an OP either but these will get more like 30-50 plays a day not a week. I was there an hour and played 10-15 games on TS4

there's a ST pro that had 35,000 plays in like 6 years and you have to figure it was less as it got older.

The games I see on location the shooter lanes look chewed up after a few months that would indicate thousands of plays in a few months.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/stern-star-trek-with-4938-plays-pics/page/11
96c8619df19a3361fbce8baaa409b087eeac8ab8 (resized).jpeg

I’m sure it would depend on the location, some places I go to charge a flat fee all you can play. Other places charge per game. Also I’ll go to an arcade and some games won’t get a single play the entire time I’m there. I’m sure these first few months are the golden time and maybe it’ll fade out.

A recession doesn’t mean everyone is on line to get soup and handouts. It could mean a few percent more unemployed. Sad as that might be that doesn’t mean you are unemployed or even impacted by the recession. I remember during the Great Recession, everything was very dire but we were at Disney World and it was as packed as ever.

Back on topic of TS4 seems like the flippers/scalpers are in a recession.

forward for the Hitler video.

I had the same with the slingshots where the ball was volleying back and forth at least 12 times. It didn’t happen all the time but when it did it was total buzzkill. It looked to me like the slingshot was angled back more than typical.

It is fun, but at $12-15k?

I paid $6k for TNA and you can get DI for less than $8K.

There are just over 100 combined TS4 listed in people collections. Not sure if they just aren’t out in big numbers delivered yet or if it’s just not for us type of sales where they are selling but not to pinball people who are on Pinside.

It does look anemic at this point and the fact that the owners thread is fairly quie tells you something, at least to me it says Pinside is not overly pumped about this title.

I agree that people are still buying this at 12/15K and there is minimal flipping.

I think flipping while bad also points to something that is more desirable and in short supply.

We can obviously see a game like Ultraman while in short supply is NOT a good game to flip because it is not viewed as more desirable than (xyz lets say DP premium), I mean put them both on sale even DP is more common but you will be able to sell DP for more money.

GnR CE was much better (as a flip candidate) than TS4

GnR CE
-less made
-lower MSRP
-has a physical mechanism (Como lock) that is not in the LE

With TS4 JJP took all the air out of the flip balloon. Zero FOMO after seeing the release pictures I had zero interest in CE (zero). I was still considering the LE until I played it. Now to that point at $12K, I could get a lot of pins. I paid less than that for Godzilla LE (most expensive pin I have bought). I paid $4K less for my AFM LE etc.. I just bought DP premium and BM66 and JP premium all were several thousand less than TS4. I could afford TS4 but several thousand dollars is real money.

I’d bet they don’t make all the 1000 CEs

Agree with TS4 everything you said.

About Maiden, I’m thinking about getting that next. I never listened to them but on the pin I think it’s great upbeat music, great code. I would be nice as a different theme as well, even another Spiderman I wouldn’t say no. However that’s unlikely because it’ll cut the prospective buyers down if a lot already own Maiden.

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I agree it's meh.

Nothing about this game is above average except the price.

Probably flippers will see it’s a loss, will just give up the deposit and not take delivery and JJP will decide if they even need to build all the 1000 units.

It's crazy, I can see someone getting bored with with it after 50 games, that's why I like to play first. Best to sell before there is a flood of HUO TS4 to compete against.

Lots of people trying to get out of their CE and LE order spots, it’ll be interesting to see how low they will go to get out of taking delivery. Who would buy a spot (send money to a stranger to cover their deposit) when you can buy directly from a dealer for the same price?

Also if they had made just 500 CE they would be harder to find, but at 1K units they are more common than any Stern LE (except Godzilla which cost $5K less when new). TS4 is priced as the most expensive game ever produced but has none of the toys or rarity that would indicate that ultra high price.

I said on the JJP survey that I would consider future JJP pins when they add back in toys and some price value into the pins like was in the past.

They did make a lot of mistakes on the CE (IMO) it could have had a better topper for the price (look at CGC toppers for gosh sake). I am not a topper guy but a nice topper like AFM is really a selling point.

Look at GnR they had at least one unique feature that was not on the LE. At least the CE guys could say they wanted the full experience so they got the Coma lock.

The CE should have shipped first or predominately first so the buyers who really wanted one and spend the fat dollars would get the game first. I understand making some LEs first to get on route but to have CE buyers say they already have the LE and therefore they don't need the CE that they also have on order is just insane. Also who the heck is so hyped up on TS4 that they need to order both LE and CE versions.

I understand that TS is a big theme so they wanted to raise the price but to make it the most expensive pin ever (not counting limited Supreme or Elvira 40 small run pins) and then it's not the best of all time except in price doesn't add up. I played it, it's fine it's not any better than Wonka or DI or GnR all of which are significantly cheaper.

That’s a change of tune, had wanted $200 premium a few weeks ago.

I agree, most who wanted a CE would have easily got one on sale day 1. They were not hard to find, so if I didn’t want one then, I’m really not going to want one now at MSRP. It’ll be a huge discount for sure from the would be scalpers. The scalpers will get scalped on this pin. Non-refundable deposits indeed.

Just look at CCR for $8K. That’s just coo-coo to think that TS4 would cost $4-7K more when you are obviously getting so much more for less money with CCR.

DI shoots just as well with more magnets/toys for a fraction of the price. If this was priced at $10K/$12K people would still not love it but it would be more palatable.

I’ve been playing DI a lot lately, my game has the factory hole protector that makes the SIM shot harder, super hard to make as a direct shot and I’m often aiming it off a post hoping to get a lucky bounce. But while that may seem like the game wasn’t designed correctly to me it just makes that time when SIM is lit more action packed. I was having the SIM lost when the ball drained so it was even more frustrating but the point to me is that shot just becomes more exciting when I do hit it. It’s hard like the hyper loop hurry-up on SW.

Some can say the SIM shot is poorly designed maybe it is but it to me that’s just another obstacle to overcome. And making that shot is always a cause for celebration. And it’s not a shared shot like the mode start on DP so it’s only needed for that SIM collection so it makes sense that it’s not an easy shot. It could have been the Big Bang Target instead but I like how that BB target works as it is.

That’s too bad, I lost $2K on XMLE those were hard to sell, but at least I keep it for 3 years so got a good number of plays. Would suck loosing so much in a few weeks.

Say you love it so much you’re getting a CE.

Cactus Canyon by a mile.

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Toys and features should be a C

Theme C+ for me, because it’s the worst TS movie, do you like Forkey more than Zurg?

How cool would it have been to have Zurg rise up from the PF like the Iron Monger bash toy?

They could have done some cool code like pick a character T-Rex, Mr Potato Head, Buzz etc and had different starting modes or scoring like SW or Potc has.

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I agree that they wanted to take the flippers profit but they misunderstood that in doing so they ended up squashing all FOMO and any potential for owners to break even. I fully expect these to change hands under $10K, where they’re still more cost than CGC and Stern premiums.

Also, I understand they went big on the price but they should have backed it up with a tour de force of best rules and toys. If it had been like TBL or Potc with toys and BM66 on rules most likely it would have been better received. But they get lots of so-so reviews saying it’s fine but… nothing stands out except it’s price.

If they want a basic game, charge like $8-9-10K fine.

I am in the middle of the review, I like they way you shoot and edit these reviews, well done..

I will say you are probably correct it's a solid B/B+ overall not the best not bad at all. My main issue with the pin is the price and the because TS4 is not my favorite film with Forkey and Gabby.

I like Zack and Greg and the reviews. I am aware they might not agree with my personal reviews, but that's fine, I like to watch the streams and the reviews, play the games and see them with my own eye and make my own opinion. I know some people don't like SW at all and yet it's my top pin (or one of the top5). If I made a review video it would be different than Zack or different than Flinnibus or Iceman. But the point is we all love pinball and love playing most machines some more than others. I didn't care for GnR and not a huge fan of TS4 but they are still fine games. One thing, I only rate games I have owned. I see a lot of reviews where they say they played a few games and then they rate that game sometimes super low or even super high, one guy I see here on Pinside will have 50 games rated and he has them all rated as 10. That is just clown talk to me, if every game is 10 the rating has no meaning.

In fact now that I watched the review, I think TS4 is better than I had thought (I played it an hour but didn't know half of the details they talk about on the review). Now when I play it in the future I will probably like it more.

Two out of three ain’t bad..

I put an order for CC SE + topper. After seeing and playing both games it’s clear I’m getting a lot more for the money with CC.

It’s not all about money I’d buy CC over TS4 if they were the same price, but look at the lowest price available $8k vs $12K everyone can see CC is the better priced game.

As I say it’s not about money with me because I like the old school (nearly 30 years old) gameplay at least for a change of pace from my more modern games. I own AFM LE it’s super fun and CC has that fun campy vibe. I’d have gotten an LE but think they’re all sold out by now. But funny enough I’ve seen one LE spot for sale at the same price as TS4 LE ($12K).

I just ordered CC SE plus topper but no idea when it’s shipping. I actually hope it’s later because of all the other pins I bought this year. I’d love to get a CC LE if it shipping later don’t mint that.

Is nice seeing people buying this pin. Not my cup of tea but some people will love it.

Unknown but there were

400 Tron LE produced and 255 are represented on Pinside (more than half)
550 XMLE and 292 on Pinside (more than half)
1000 Godzilla LE and 468 on Pinside (almost half)
500 LotR LE and 263 on Pinside (more than half)
500 GnR CE and 238 on Pinside (almost half)
500 DP LE and 255 on Pinside (more than half)

550 TNA produced and 428 on Pinside most of TNA are represented on Pinside

Pinside is not the whole world but it seems to buy a lot of the LE/CE pins and if the majority of Pinside is walking away from TS4 CE they will have to find some other buyers somehow. There are just 64 TS4 CE represented on Pinside, I know that not all have received their games but there is nothing preventing people from adding it to their collection (BTW only 27 wishlist TS4 CE and 39 wishlist LE) meanwhile 717 people have DI on their wishlist.

I played that Tron LE must have been like 5 years ago it was totally blown out and dirty as hell. No idea but could have had ten's of thousands of plays by the look of it. But it was sad they didn't keep it clean.

You can say Pinside does not represent the entire world of Pinball but by gosh it does represent a lot. I only know like 7-8 guys real well (through Pinside) meaning I've been to their house multiple times. And of those guys like 3-4 own TNA and that's a game that only 550 exists in the whole world and yet 3-4 guys out of a handful that live in Maryland own TNA. Sure a few guys in Maryland probably owned TNA that I didn't know of course but my point is at least for TNA likely 80-90% of the market is/was Pinside.

Other games likely will be a different mixture of who buys it, but I do know if you eliminate 90% of Pinside that's not going to do well with sales and you can not argue one bit when there are a dozen for sale ads and zero (ZERO) wanted ads for a pin. When all the F/S ads are at $1K discount and zero sales.

I owned R&M for one year, and like a lot about it (the code, the art, the lights, sounds, rules and maybe a lot of the shots) but overall to me couldn't keep it because the shot geometry was not ok. I could only make the garage shot like 1 out of 10 attempts maybe not even. So they say take it apart and drill and relocate this and that but that's not me, I'm not drilling my pin to make it shoot like it should have from the factory. I love Spooky but they are really hit and miss on the build.

I sold it, miss it, if it was shooting ok I would have kept it, but no loss get another game in it's place, I love R&M but love JP, Godzilla, DP and BM66 just as well.

I agree that you can’t 100% say about the owners on Pinside. Some may have on order and not list it as owned but some might.

I agree also about casual grandparents, heck it’s possible. But also possible they’ll see JP the pin or SW the pin at $4500 vs TS4 at 3x the price and figure ‘the pin’ is good enough.

I am not sure either about ‘the pin’. It’s not for me, I bought Tron, Iron Man, TWD, Met pro for under $5k. I’m not in the mood to but ‘the pin’ for that money. I’d rather get a pro for $6k or whatever they cost.

But a new buyer might just look at ‘the pin’ as a nice entry point.

I’d bet if JJP went more basic and price at $6-7k they’d have a lot more casual buyers just on theme.

I could have bought TS4 but it was such a high price comparison to a Stern premium or CC remake so I did just that ordered a CC remake. After seeing the price of TS4 and playing it, just made CC remake seem like a deal.

TS4 does not exist in a vacuum, it has to compete with JP, CC remake, Godzilla, the next Stern pin etc. ****all costing thousands less****

It’d be one thing if all pins were $12-$15K you could say that’s what they cost. But when everything else is $6K, $9K, $11K (Stern LE) then you see TS4 as several thousand extra it just doesn’t add up unless you are really dedicated to TS4 as a theme.

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I think it’s better than Gangs of NY.

Danielle Day Lewis is in most of the movie and it’s a rags to riches story like Goodfellas or Scarface.

AMAZING!

I think the real disconnect with this pin is 10000000% the cost that it's so darn expensive.

CCrLE with topper, side art, shaker, color trim, fancy arch, molded toys $9250 then you have to spend another almost $6K for the TS4 CE that's like 60% more expensive than CCrLE. And the CCrLE arguably has a topper worth $1200-1500 as toppers go, but TS4 CE topper is that worth a grand heck I don't think so.

Look at CCr SE at $8K and TS4 at $12K that's an entire 50% more money for a pin that's arguably stripped down compared to CCr SE.

What the heck? I can almost buy a whole other machine, I can almost buy a Stern pro and Stern premium for $15K.

This is not PotC not a super loaded pin by any means it's DI-lite it's Wonka-lite but it's priced as the best pin of all time. People have eyes, they can see. People have bought Wonka or DI or GnR they know what you get for $9K, 10K, 12K they know they are not seeing that on TS4.

I think $9-11K is fair LE-CE price.

I own both Woz and DI both have been nearly trouble free. But you can’t say about the new games who knows?

Well whatever. I’m looking at the game, CC has more stuff for far far less moneys. Also back in 98’ there was money spent to design the game so that part is redundant to me. Likely CGC had to pay for the rights to the game it’s not like they are free public domain.

You want to bet CCrLE is completely sold out and people want + $1-2k to sell their spots. While TS4 people all are selling at a loss.

JJP has removed toys like the Monkey from Woz. I’d bet you could remove the troll dolls and the screen and nobody would care. Charge $8k maybe as a SE (or $7500)?

So now dealers are emailing me to say they have CEs available when before they were ‘sold out’.

Nice

To be honest this is the are you ‘in or out’ TS4 thread and most are out.

TS4 is a good pin but at $12/15k is a horrible pin because you can get almost any other pin for that much.

There’s another ad from a guy wants out of the CE at a $2k discount. I guess the dealer will just keep the deposit if nobody wants to pay the remainder, at that point if I already paid the deposit might as well buy it. But with Bond our next probably people want to get TS4 in the rear view mirror.

I just hope dealers are not getting hurt by this, maybe next time JJP will put in premium toys and code for it’s extra price. I don’t think collectors mind paying top tier price but they expect better execution. Theme, toys, code, etc. C62E977C-846D-435D-B29C-72840B735F93 (resized).jpeg

It’s super murky to me, every dealer was ‘sold out’ of GnR CE but you might think some dealers held back CEs to sell themselves or to their friends to flip.

Yea but they’re going to only make 100 units (or whatever number) it’ll be rare.

LoL manufacturing rareness on something no one wants. It’s one thing if it’s a topper that everyone would like but you make it rare so it’ll be Fomo and you can charge more. Or like the Supreme pin. But you can’t just manufacture people to want something by making an arbitrary limit.

JJP got greedy with the CE both both the price and the number produced (and not enough added content).

If they had said only 200-300 CE will ever be made they would have had a scarcity component and have been snatched up in a minute. But once people saw the game (at least to my eyes and mind) realized it was not an instant sell out there was no fear of it becoming worth more than the list price. After that people begin discounting CE price and dealers hit you up with extra units they still have for sale 2 months after launch it's more clear than ever. FOMO (zero) scalpers (zero) the game will find its floor in price in the market.

As I said before dealers still have Beatles Diamond and Platinum years after they were made, people don't want to pay super abundance of money for just cosmetic difference and a little plaque. Stern missed the price point for Beatles and JJP missed the price point and limited number for TS4 CE.

Hopefully it’s not another 18 months, they may have to make some more Wonka to take up the empty capacity.

I do hear Disney pushes the latest products like Eternals or Ms Marvel over the classic characters (that are popular) like Iron Man, Captain America etc.

But TS4 is already old movie and Stern was able to get original SW trilogy which is the best license ever. Can’t see why JJP couldn’t get TS1-3 or even just TS2 if they wanted to do a single movie. Can have Zurg at least instead of Gabby.

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I’m going to play it before making any decisions. They’ll make it for years and of course I’d like to see what Keith has up his sleeve.

Except when Stern cabinets were splitting in the past.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/cabinets-still-splitting-wtf/page/6

You hit the nail on the head.

IMO JJP had a window when nothing new was out and some people got to have the newest pin.

You are a poor judge of pinball machines.

If you go on vacation and spend $9k then you have spent $9k. If you buy a TV for $5k and after x years it’s worth zero you have spent $5k on the tv.

If you buy a pin for $9k play it for a few years and sell it for $8k it only cost you $1k.

Now true a $15k CE could lose more than a $9k premium pin but it’s still not going to cost you $15k unless it’s worth zero on resale.

I agree with this as well.

Take for example Bond, I have been approached by several people to ask if I want to buy the LE at cost (not marked up). Normally I would be like sure, but the price has got out of hand. People were thinking (in the past) they could get an LE and it would go up in price. I see DP LE ads for $15K (or whatever) but this is not the case with Bond as the LE is already $13K and it's not as limited in number as most other LE games. So there is less scarcity.

I love Tron (I would compare it to TS4 or the new TNA). Sadly I did sell Tron before this time when prices took off. I sold a great example for $6700. this was over two years ago and now a comparable Tron would probably go for $10-11K with mods and the condition etc.. It's a different perspective because TS4 and TNA are both now being produced and Tron is not but the value proposition is similar where (to me) Tron is a $6-8K pins all day long or that's what I value them as so I am stuck without the ability to buy Tron at what I feel is a reasonable price. I saw this on the TNA thread where people were aghast that TNA was now being offered at $9-10K. If Stern did make Tron again and asked for $9K (this is stock so you'd need to spend another $2K on mods) people would maybe also be mad at that but the reality is that Tron is somehow a $10K pin now.

I really like Stern SW, it’s ranked in the 40’s or so. It did pop up to #1 once the Comic edition rating was added. But it has since settled back down to where it was rated before. I believe Alien will settle back down in time, it’s just the 50 owners or whatever number it needs to get on the official list that drives it way up.

1-2 were the best.

sweet, can you take a picture with all three turned on?