Toy Story 4 (CE)
Jersey Jack, 2022
Toy Story 4 (LE)
Jersey Jack, 2022You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider PtownPin.
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Quoted from Manimal:If they hit this one out of the park, I will jump in at some point....but that is a big "IF". I have no idea if this is a "make or break" game for JJP, but they desperately need a win. Who would have thought WOZ would still be their best seller this late in the game?
My guess is GNR is their best seller although they've been making WOZ for years. They probably sold 3-4K GNR's if not more
Quoted from Goronic:Ironic that Jack is over a Hobbit playfield - that playfield is gorgeous and damn near perfect.
However, the last 5 years have been total crap playfields. Hoping it is back to Hobbit playfield good, but I am worried it won’t be based on Mircos responses in the Q&A. I won’t roll the dice to find out as a first day buyer.
If, and that’s a big if, they have corrected them and toy story is good pin I will consider it. After the playfields are proven good from buyers and personal inspection.
Totally agree....of all my JJP games Hobbit was by far the best play field
Quoted from screaminr:My Hobbit Playfield was excellent as well , but so is my GNR and the dimples are tiny .
Pity there were shit ones in the first batch .
My GNR play field is perfect as well with very few (if any) dimples....my Wonka and POTC were not....JJP provided new play fields for those machines (at their cost), which wasn't an ideal solution but at least it was something. I was willing to roll the dice on the past 5 machines knowing they would do something if there was a play field issue, but now that they've gone away from that I'll never buy another JJP NIB machine.
Quoted from screaminr:So your GNR Playfield is perfect and they replaced your faulty ones , and now you're never going to buy another game from them ....ok
Yes, but now JJP is charging customers for play fields. They did not do that prior to GNR
Quoted from screaminr:Totally get what you're saying .
I had the same concerns , and my distributor said he would look after me , same as what Zach says at Flip N Out . Go through a good distributor and that should help a lot .
I've heard a number of podcasters not happy with Stern responses to Playfield issues , it's not just jjp .
No doubt that JJP isn't the only one with issues, but they clearly have changed their tune on play field replacement. So you're saying Flip N Out will replace play fields on their dime? If so thats great customer service
Quoted from Deez:How many plays does your GNR have on it? I've never seen one with a nice playfield except when fresh out of the box.
My CE had a couple hundred and it was still perfect. You might be right that after many more plays it falls apart, but it was fine after a few hundred. My LE doesn't hardly have any games on it at all as I've been spending most of my time on TWD. That being said it's a late build so hoping it holds up.
Quoted from screaminr:This is my game with over 700 plays which = millions of balls
It was a later run with the "fixes" .
I'm not saying there weren't shit playfields and that JJP's response to the problem wasn't terrible .
But when they're done right , they're pretty good .
Even the unprotected front of the scoop still looks like new .
I don't think I would want a first run batch from any manufacturer , there always seems to be issues .
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Looks good! Not sure what Mirco changed, but the Hobbit play fields were the best by a long shot
Quoted from Elvishasleft:GNR sold a ton.. as has every pin that came out last few years.
it's also the most overhyped and worst playing game of the last number of years maybe second to Ghostbusters... cant think of any other that was more of a disappointment.
It's a pretty fun pin especially if you're a GNR fan. The beauty of having multiple games is their different i.e. AFM, MM, TWD all play quite a bit differently than GNR. I do however agree with GB 
Quoted from snaroff:I recently replaced my GNRLE with RUSHLE. Can't stop playing Rush...had to force myself to play GNR.
To each their own....I played a rush LE and thought it was boring
Quoted from jfh:I’m sorry I wasn’t more clear. I’m reasonably comfortable with what I’ve heard about JJP support regarding anything other than playfield issues so general support is not a significant concern for me
JJP is generally very good with anything other than play field issues.
Quoted from Colehvac1:Take a look at sterns production since JJP was formed, and even with a so called billionaire investor they still cant produce more than a game every two years. To each their own, but taking a no warranty stance on playfields and cabinets, plus lack of parts support for games from before the investors took over was a terrible corporate decision. The polls dont lie! I may be a broken record, but it’s obvious theres more than just me.
I've owned all the JJP games. The "No Warranty" stance on play fields was the last straw for me. Drawing that line in the sand might work in this supply constrained market, but it won't in the long run. Especially at the premium prices JJP charges.
Quoted from screaminr:Stern has way more employees and jjp puts more into their games , so of course it's gonna take them longer . ID rather see them take their time , than rush games out with less in them .
That used to be the case....Seems to me Godzilla has way more mechs and toys than the last few JJP games
Quoted from branlon8:they also raised their prices signicantly - that would also allow for a larger BOM.
True....yet they haven't reached JJP levels yet....
Quoted from romulusx:Ask anyone that owns one!
I own one....
Quoted from screaminr:Really ?
[quoted image]
Pic from the top side would be a better comparison
Quoted from yancy:They shoulda put some of that fun on top of the playfield.
Its a great game, but toys are lacking...although probably more than my GNR
Quoted from screaminr:Was being a bit cheeky , pic is of GZ pro .
But it goes to show you , you don't need a lot of Mech's to make a great game .
I would argue GNR has no Mech's ( does a non motorised spinning disc count ? )
But it is still packed with " stuff "
I agree....GNR basically has zero mechs.
Quoted from romulusx:Some how it ends up being the coolest most beautiful pinball machine ever!
its a fun game, but most beautiful pinball machine ever is a stretch
Quoted from Our_Man_in_Oz:Now we can have Lior make a whole set of custom sculpts that cost $399 each for it
Oh God please no more over priced mods from Lior
Quoted from Our_Man_in_Oz:Tell me about it! I made the mistake of buying into the IJ $$cupt hype and that didn't end well at all. Never again.
I dont blame you....He makes nice stuff, but its way over priced and he's very difficult to work with
Quoted from Our_Man_in_Oz:Yeah nail on the head. I ended up literally binning his product. He got me that offside about it, insulting me etc, when I found and posted about a real fitment issue.
I can totally see that...he got all bent at me for bagging one of his products when I said it wasn't worth it. He then said he would send me a free product of my choice so I can see the quality. He of course disappeared after that....
Quoted from Sunsfan23:I don’t think this creative product which appears to be incredibly intricate, well thought out, and aesthetically pleasing deserves all the vitriol it’s getting. Everyone wishes it was Toy Story (not TS4). I imagine the license was committed to already (likely paid for and set to expire). Given the constraints of building a pinball machine in the modern post pandemic era this is still a remarkable piece of amusement equipment. I don’t like that they are 12k and 15k but this was the obvious price point given the prices of past releases and the current pin market. The CEs still sold out in 2 minutes. It may not have the “magic under the glass” a lot of packed machines have but I do believe it will have magical moments, satisfying gameplay, and unique character like all JJP titles to this date seem to have.
I don't think the TS4 theme is the bigger issue. I believe most people could care less as long as the game was packed with game play stuff, and it shot well. The reality is JJP price points are crazy for what u get and thats 90% of the reaction. If this pin was priced like GNR people wouldn't be complaining, and that was a true under glass experience. That being said JJP went from a GNR LE at $9500 (sold a ton), and then for no reason kept raising the price throughout production (landed at $11K). My guess is they sold very few units at $11k and 90%+ of the buyers bought at the $9.5K price. Sales of this game will pale in comparison to GNR
Quoted from Sunsfan23:Very good point. It’s absurd in my mind that I’m coming to the defense of a manufacturer for raising prices. My thought process is this, when I got into this hobby a few years ago I imagined and experienced when buying new in box that if I sold it in the used market I would take at least a 5-10% hit. Recently this has not been the case and manufacturing continues to be sluggish, so maybe they are ok with out pricing some folks on nib and softening the used market value so there isn’t an absurd # of backorders which really means (like initially with GnR) you undervalued your product. Also, this game actually has more mechanical aspects than GnR and Wonka. I also am certain the TS license cost 2-3x that of GnR or Wonka.
you might be right on the license fees (I have no clue), but the world under glass on GNR is in a different league than TS4. Although both games really have no toys. Maybe JJP is happy building far less units with a much greater profit margin and moving onto the next game quicker. My guess is LE orders are way down compared to GNR, and thats probably just fine in their eyes as they can announce their next game in a few months.
Quoted from Sunsfan23:Godfather u think? One kid theme followed by one adult theme?
Pat sell me one of your two simpsons!
Yea we need to figure that out...I'll be in touch soon. GodFather or Matrix would be great although I don't have much faith in the "new" JJP
Quoted from Sunsfan23:Haha man they got me with the screens, radcals, and “sparkle” playfield. I love mechs more than anything but sometimes I get pulled by aesthetics. That said Pirates and WoZ are my favorite jjps and likely will remain so for a while given this trend.
WOZ was the good old days....
Quoted from robotron:got out from my CE spot i refuse to be part of another money grab. status quo is not acceptable. going to buy my self a nice c6 corvette as a hobby. pins are out of touch with the working man this was supposed to be a special pin. for 15000 i dont see one thing that seperates it from the rest except the crazy price.
My guess is you will be one of many over the upcoming months. Its a total money grab from JJP that my guess will back fire.
Quoted from Noma2017:My guess is it is priced right at or just slightly above where it needs to be in today’s market. Godzilla LE, Deadpool LE and Stanger Things LE all command north of $16k used and higher for NIB. It’s just where the market is. I’m not hesitating on this one because I have unfortunately paid those insane prices for some of the good Stern LEs.
Market is crazy, but many people buy these NIB games under the assumption they can spin at or above MSRP therefore no downside on a sight unseen purchase. Those games u list are established very highly rated pins that have been in the market for sometime, and Stern is slow to market on the premiums. JJP priced this unknown product waaaay too high, and my guess the market will reflect that over the next 6-8 months.
Quoted from Noma2017:Only time to tell but if he “got out of” his CE spot my guess that is only because there is someone waiting for and eager to take that spot. I would like to believe it was out of the kindness of that distributor’s heart, but…
Possibly? I passed on my CE and have been offered spots sense release....I'm sitting this one out, and will wait until the dust settles.
Quoted from Rarehero:Normally I’d agree - but after JP, I’m open to a new pinball narrative, especially if Elwin did it…and they got the real Doc & Biff for callouts, and the player was Marty or a new kid to go on new time travel adventures….it could work.
Could be a home run if Stern actually gets any assets, but thats probably wishful thinking? That being said I bagged on JP for a long time for not getting any assets, but that game is the real deal.
Quoted from Bud:Yeah, I didn’t mention the “cut” and I did hit on repairs. Those two issues would consume a chapter each in a book. I just might know from experience or maybe I’m just full of poo-poo.
So I'm curious on a $12K+ machine how would it have to perform to make financial sense?
Quoted from Bud:Depends on an operators agreements and costs. A general rule of thumb is $100/week, per machine in total earnings.
At 12k plus $500 shipping, $400 dollar bill acceptor makes TS a 12.9k machine. Total earnings would be $5200/year if it maintained $100/week with zero maintenance time or costs (unrealistic)
Now figure the cut at say 20%, earnings are now $4160 with no maintenance time or costs.
If an operator only spent time in driving to the location to collect earnings, give the location its cut, drive to bank to deposit money and drive back home and only spent an hour (unrealistic) there is 52 hours time plus fuel. Currently gasoline is $5.20/gal here, let say 1 gallon per collect trip, that’s $270. $3890 remains, now it’s time for taxes and that’s such a huge variable it’s going to be extremely subjective, let’s say 20% and call it $780, $3110 remains.
Let’s figure business loans. When I had a business loan it was 7.25% so I’ll just use that number but I’m sure it’s more now. On 7 years that’s $3600 in interest or $43/month. $3070 now remains. All that gives you $255/month. None of this figures in maintenance cost, operators time, insurance, equipment depreciation or permitting.
An operator can’t survive let alone support a family on $250 a month. $250/month is not worth the headache to set out one machine either. It takes a lot machines at this rate to just stay afloat and that’s considering a constant $100/week for 7 years. Machines break so to expect a machine to run problem free for 7 years is unrealistic. Pins also get stagnant at a location so you either have to add more machines or replace them with other machines and that another bowl of worms with figures, especially with rising costs of machines and gathering the capital to acquire more machines.
Sorry for the lengthy post, I tried to make is short and simple.
I appreciate the response. Makes total sense....one would need 20+ machines performing at the above in order to make any kind of sense .. although I'm sure residual value plays a significant factor as well
Quoted from iceman44:At that price, 1,000 is WAY too many. At any price really
And the “LE” edition? It’s time to drop that term with JJP. Yes it’s “limited” to 5,000, so what.
Also, going backwards from GNR in terms of the wow factor imo, charging more and producing more “CE’s” was a HUGE mistake
I think they are paying for it now but the bigger price will paid in the future.
Deliver the CEs months later on a weak offering equals big problem
A better theme might help a bit next time BUT they are in BIG trouble if they don’t significantly raise the bar with what’s in the game or simply reduce the price again.
Tough to put the horse back on the barn.
I’ll say the same thing about Stern. It takes the #1 game in Godzilla to maintain a price above retail for “LEs”.
RUSH, a very good game, ranked in top 20, won’t hold its retail price just like TS. There are a lot of LEs for sale by the flippers and others.
For most titles, 1,000 is WAY to many and they are bastardizing the whole “collector” market and it will come back to haunt all of them.
CGC? The FOMO is there because they take FOREVER to announce a new game and then deliver.
Cactus LE will be my last game from them. There you go CGC, don’t even need a survey monkey
Its crazy how bad CGC is at getting games out the door. People will blame covid and the supply chain, but the reality is it's always been this way with CGC. Possibly this is due to the fact they don't seem to consistently make games and theres a lot starts and stops? Not really sure, but they NEVER make schedule. It looks like it will take them almost a year to start getting the LE's out the door.
Quoted from mtp78:This game will be around for a while in NIB form if anyone ever wants to grab one down the road , I am waiting to see what the next release before I would even consider it.. I can say if 12k is the new LE price than JJP lost a customer who bought 5 of their games previously. I will just stick with CGC and Stern.
Funny I'm in the same camp as u, and I told them that in the survey they sent out
Quoted from explosiveegg:It doesn't have to. As they'll eventually sell it and the game ought to maintain some level of value.
In fact most locations near me get the limited run versions of games when they can because they maintain their value better. In most cases they've been able to sell their beat-up games after a few years of earning well at a busy location for a couple grand more than they paid for it.
I have a hard time believing a TS4 LE will grow in value, but I don't think it's going to drop more than a couple grand. As JJP will likely only make enough to fill demand from their distributors before they switch over to their next title.
You're saying the operator is selling a beat up routed LE for more than what they paid? I find that really hard to believe a routed Stern LE or JJP with thousands of games and in rough shape sells for more than what they paid
Quoted from flynnibus:Take out the 'beat up' portion of your assertion and some titles yes, the title has appreciated enough to make even routed games worth more than purchase price.
The thing is an operator can't COUNT on that... but when it does happen, you analyze if the appreciation gain is worth more to you than the future earnings. Sometimes timing the market is really valuable.
It boils down to availability and demand for the title... just like every other sale.
I hear what you're saying, but thats not what he said in his comment as he used the words "beat up" ..... the current market is a bit of an anomaly so I can see a popular routed Stern LE in good shape selling for more, but I don't see a beat up version of the same game selling anywhere close to MSRP. Most buyers of these games value condition probably more than anything.
Quoted from sanctumwear:Started off wanting a $1k profit 31 days ago.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/jjp-toy-story/page/105#post-7001216
Be interesting to see how many CE buyers drop out prior to ponying up $14K
Quoted from smokinhos:Not so sure comparing GnR to TS4 is fair. GnR had crazy hype and has since kinda faded especially on gameplay. I know many collectors that have one and moved on pretty quick. There's plenty GnR available at $9500 and $11k new. If TS4 was $11k new and selling used at $9500, this would be a very different conversation. I dont love TS4, but its fun and seems on the surface a pretty easy shooter. But it needs more code, and with more objectives and modes might sneak into more homes..
Totally disagree....GNR was released at $9.5K, which is probably where 90% of the sales took place so the reality is its holding value very well. My guess is JJP sold very few GNR LE's at $11K....GNR CE's are still way above MSRP
Quoted from smokinhos:Agree and disagree... the hype surrounding GnRs release was absolute insanity. GnR at $11k is another pricing mistake for JJP, and then they doubled down on TS4 at $12k. There are plenty of pins from all the major manufacturers that have similar or better success.
I'm not sure what your point is? If your point is JJP pricing structure is misguided than I agree.
Quoted from iceman44:That’s true too. Glad to have picked up a Wonka CE on close out.
It might take a few years to have market absorb TS4
My guess is distributors will be sitting on CE's for years. I wonder if distributors got wind of JJP's pricing structure prior to purchase?
Quoted from smokinhos:I am sure you are right.. but with this.. I feel like I'm not missing out...
[quoted image][quoted image]
I have a BIB with the same setup....its a fun game and my favorite band, but GNR is on a whole different level
Quoted from smokinhos:My point is YES GnR sold a bunch at $9500.. and YES JJPs pricing is misguided... AND GnR is not anymore successful than many other pins...
I'm sure your correct as Stern as put out some really nice games recently (DP, JP, GZ to name a few)
Quoted from jimwe5t:Paul M’s song is the only decent one in the whole bunch and a cover at that. But after playing it for the 50th time, its a snooze fest. People are now realizing the shots are lame and slow as an old dog. You should have discover this by now Dougy.
Just like this thread, GNR owners will defend a game that should have cost no more than a Pro. Sorry owners a $10 greatest hits GNR CD with a thousand string $20 LED light kit, fulfills the same GNR JJP dog and pony show. Throw in a steel ball to toss around and wala, you have GNR for $32 dollars, not crazy priced at $12k +. Lol JJP games sucker priced as the most expensive mirages in all of pinball. Only WOZ was value packed at $6500. TS4 NIB will be around for many years to come, till distributors get tired of cleaning all the dust off the boxes and off load them at big discounts.
Upgrading the sound system of any machine is a must! Soooo much better!
Nah....I guess its easy to throw stones when u don't own any games
Quoted from jimwe5t:Oh I own plenty of games, even JJP.
Oh...typically people who dont show their collection dont own many machines and just like to throw stones. I own many games from multiple manufacturers and I find most are fun...some better than others depending on my mood. I can't say I've ever played or owned a modern game that wasn't fun in some way.
Quoted from jkashani:Man I could not wait for drains to ball with G and R. It is a belay game and for me it ends there. To each their own.
Not a lot of credibility considering you bought Halloween 
Quoted from jimwe5t:This is too funny and the reason I don’t list my games,
Well if I had one game and it was Halloween I wouldn't list it either
Quoted from Roostking:Is it still even on the line?
Thats funny! They will probably build out LE's until CE parts arrive, and then move to the next title
Quoted from jimwe5t:IM is a top game in every regard. Dougy ol buddy, you never stop bashing Stern slyly/sideways do you… We get it, you’re a top cheerleader for JJP fanboy club and have epic hate for Stern. It’s a wonder you’ve not sold your remaining Stern machines. Why not just keep one, since their all similar/same, according to you??? Lol!!!
I had an IMLE for a while, and thought it was fun, but the music sucked so I sold it....I mean I know u don't own any games but why can't u like them all? JJP, Stern, CGC, BW, Spooky.....they all make fun games, and they are all guilty of making games that weren't so good (at least to me)....the only complaint I really have about JJP TS4 is the price....if JJP didn't price gouge people wouldn't be bashing the title so much.
Quoted from iceman44:Yeah JJP overpriced TS4 big time. What I’ve heard is a bit of GNR arrogance got to them.
They did the math and thought hmmmm, if we can sell 5,000 GNRs then we can sell at least that many TS4’s with that license.
And pinball pricing going nuts, we can get away with hiking the price across the board AND raise the quantity of CEs.
Said it plenty of times since the launch. It’s a terrible move on their part.
Now Stern is doing the same thing on a lesser scale.
1,000 LEs at these increased prices is just too many for MOST titles.
Rush, as good as many think it is, are plentiful in LE and will be forever. It’s also going to experience an eventual “loss”.
For people that care about that type of thing aren’t gonna be happy as the wheels get a little wobbly.
As for Stern, I still have, because I love them, TWDLE, BM66LE, GBLE, ASLE, WPT, MUNSTERSLE, JPLE, STHLE, GZLE, EHOHCE, and a BEATLES gold game. And I’ll be buying BOND and JAWS regardless. Is that enough Stern love for you? So quit making shit up!
Now just for you Jimmy, since you are on top of these sort of things and I assume you can do basic MATH, what do you see when you look at my collection of pins?
I buy what I like, have for years, sell what I don’t like most people. But if you want to scoreboard it then there you go buddy! Post yours up so we can see how smart you are.
He doesn't own any games...
Quoted from romulusx:Jimwett doesn't own any games? That's so sad jimmy maybe we should take a collection and buy jimmy a John popadick pirates of the Caribbean so he doesn't hate so much?
He claims he owns games, but who really knows. He's definitely a JJP hater thats for sure. Personally I dont hate any of these companies, and most of the modern games are fun in their own right including TS4. That being said I'll never purchase another NIB JJP pin due to their shitty warranties. I was always supportive of paying a premium for JJP (I've bought 6 NIB JJP games), but that came with the assumption they would provide a solid warranty. Not only has JJP pricing got out of whack they changed their warranty support.
Quoted from zaphX:I wouldn't say arrogance as much as miscalculation.
We all saw the Guns CEs going for 20K on the open market, raising the price is a natural response to that.
I would argue though that Guns blew everyone away.
This is true, but there were only 500 CE's versus 1000 TS's and the price was $12.5K and not $15K .... the overall GNR CE package (+ extra mech) was far superior to TS, which basically has a shitty topper, glitter play field, and red powder coating (looks like the same as Wonka ?)
Quoted from iceman44:The color choice of red powder coating on the CE was a big miss. Come on. After Wonka.
The run from 500 to 1,000 is huge. Stern included.
I’m giving the TS4CE to one daughter of mine after I play it for a while.
Middle daughter is a big STH fan so she’s gonna get that one.
Youngest one likes NBAFB! Still in school though and I can’t give that one up.
NBA FB is a great game....
Quoted from Freakyguy666:It’s a CHROME red…not flat red like Wonka.
yea whatever....it would look weird next to my already red Wonka ...
Quoted from Freakyguy666:Ya Wonka CE Red is shiny “Candy Red”…I prefer the sparkles that are embedded in the wonka Sparkle Blue LE (my personal favorite in the Wonka line).
The Chrome Red in TS4 should be next level…
Ahhh... makes sense...now I get why they had to charge $15K
Quoted from Freakyguy666:Incorrect…but it does look great…
How do you know as they haven't hit the market yet? The good news is u can get one pretty easily
Quoted from iceman44:Post up your pins Jimmy.
What are you afraid of?
You know we are gonna laugh our asses off. Lol
I mean you get a break just from originating from LA/Cali. It explains a lot.
Easy Cowboy !
Quoted from jimwe5t:If I post them up, you’ll all be super jealous. BTW, LA is where its at, just ask any Rams fan…(I will admit to buying HWN/UM, huge mistake, lol. That you can laugh your heads off about.) (wanted to buy TS1-3 with actual toys in it, but when I learned it was 4 and empty as can be, with a ridiculous price tag, it became an easy pass.) The rest of my games would send you into fits of jealousy for sure.
Anxiously awaiting the reveal
Quoted from jimwe5t:LA Rams number one rule, don’t show your secret playbook or the opposition will crème you… Haven’t you Texans learned that by now? Wasn’t there something to do with the Alamo that taught you about that important principle?
Come on man...don't be embarrassed...its all good
Quoted from jimwe5t:You guys will be relentless, even though my line up is awesome. I will be ridiculed some how over and over….I must keep up my integrity with some mystique…
u can do it Jimmy....
Quoted from jimwe5t:The only fun will be, you guys making it towards me somehow...I’m loaded with integrity, that’s why I don’t reveal my total playbook.
Do u have a play book? I mean thats the real question
Quoted from jimwe5t:For 2 different houses is the reason why. Here’s a pick of one of my JJP sitting right next to it just for you Dougy…
Nice pin....
Quoted from zaphX:Yes, but only due to price. Watching the market tank before I even take delivery makes one feel a bit down.
Hoping the hype gets re-ignited when they hit the line and I can feel better about it.
This is a tough call....unless this is a dream theme I'd punt on the CE, take your loss, and pick up a nice HUO LE for $10K ish
Quoted from Jaytech10:CGC is a pos company that can't figure out how to fix the flipper delay(button pressed to flipper coil activating) which is inconsistent anywere from 1.5 to 4.5 milliseconds. All 4 remake are cheap licensed to begin with. Don't get me started on stern premiums. I bought a ts4 and gz premium. Packed and shipped. Stern does not put the tipsy tell or shock detection or the 2 straps where the forks would hit
It and a extra layer of card board on the bottom on the their boxes[quoted image]
I think you've been drinking too much .... I've owned all CGC remakes along with most of the originals, and I can't tell the difference nor can the dozens of people who have played my games.
Quoted from Jaytech10:If you don't believe me there is a thread on pinside about it. Chromecandy.com did the testing. Twenty84 is his pinside name.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/why-remakes-dont-play-like-originals#post-3993478
I don't as I had a HEP restored MM and a new MMRLE sitting right next to each other and they both played basically the same. Are there subtle differences? yea probably like every game, but nothing that really stood out
Quoted from zaphX:It's really not a bad game at all - my concerns are about difficulty/longevity for the price.
I would get one of the discounted LEs and just play that if I could.
I still have a CE on order - not gonna burn my distro by walking away - but it's not a great feeling knowing I've overpaid.
You're in a really tough spot .... really hard to commit to a $15K purchase when u know the game will probably depreciate faster than a new car Especially when u can pick up a discounted LE
Whats the dealer cost on these games? My guess is many will sell at their cost just to get it off their books. Would the distributors know the MSRP before committing to buying CE's and LE's ? If not they got screwed
Quoted from romulusx:Wow this thread really went off the rails!Now back to the regular scheduled TS4 bashing.
Seriously speaking of JJP I wonder what conclusions Ken and crew came up with?
In my mind the only real mistake JJP made was over pricing the game. My guess is distributors are worried they'll be stuck with a shit ton of inventory once CE start shipping. That being said JJP probably doesn't care if they have the next game ready to go? Probably planning to stop LE production early, move to CE's, and then go to the next title.
Quoted from sepins:Can distributors cancel their orders on TS4???
Good question although I doubt it especially if they were aware of the game details and price prior to committing ?
Quoted from AvidPinPlayer:TS4 is a good pin. I own a LE, and I am really enjoying it. The main reason that it is being rated as it is, is not because of the play, theme, or "lack of toys," but rather because of the price; it has little to do with the game itself. I noticed that many raters do not own one and are basing their rating by playing a few games at an arcade or bar. I've been playing pinball for a long time, and can attest that it takes more than a dozen games to evaluate a pinball machine. Maybe the marketing strategy was not par with the expectations, but the machine is really a beautiful pin with lots of fun. I respect everyone's opinion, but disagree with the negative characterization this pin has received.
Totally agree with the rating part....whether u like the price or not its supposed to be about the game...TO be honest I think its a "FU" to JJP for pricing the game so high, and not loading it up with a bunch (or any) of unique toys.
Quoted from Rarehero:Also the theme. Guarantee if it was TS1 or 1-3 or 1-4 it would be selling like crazy regardless of price. TS4 is what’s killing it.
I don't think its TS4...yea it doesn't help, but its really the entire package. If this game was loaded with innovative stuff with Lawlors name behind it, and was priced reasonably it would sell like hot cakes. Raising the price from $9.5K to $12K in a year is simply a bad move on JJP's part, but I'm not sure it won't be considered a fiscal success for JJP? If the CE's are truly sold out (most to distributors) my guess is the profit per unit set a new JJP record by a lot. I mean how many units do they need to sell in order to make $
I would pick up an LE in the $9K range at some point. CE's are going to plummet in value once they all hit the market. The only good news for TS owners (as far as value goes) is I don't think JJP is going to make very many. Once they get through the initial orders I wouldn't be surprised that they stop production on LE's, finish the CE build and move onto the next title. My guess is distributors at some point will be forced to discount CE's in order to get off their books.
Quoted from rai:So now dealers are emailing me to say they have CEs available when before they were ‘sold out’.
I got the same emails....no thanks .... my guess is many distributors will be stuck with these games for a long while
Quoted from jeffgoldstein2:I don’t get it. When these dealers say they sold out right away if they all got non refundable deposits day one? Do dealers not know how many CE’s they will be getting or you think that many people walked away with money on the table? Or is it just a hype thing from the dealer side?
Who really knows? All I know I was told by multiple distributors that they had a list 100+ long, and once everyone saw the $ and game people couldn't get out fast enough...my question is did the distributors see the game and pricing before they committed? If so then I don't feel bad for them....if not then its a JJP issue
Quoted from zaphX:In a world where someone is harmed by extending trust to another person, it's the person who broke that trust who is in the wrong.
I hear what you're saying, but whose really in the wrong? I could argue all three parties (customer, distributor, JJP). Since JJP insists on complete secrecy (like others) with regards to game play, and pricing its kind of hard for a customer to really commit to anything. I told my distributors that I was interested since I own other CE's, but it was contingent upon seeing the game and pricing. I feel zero issue with dropping out after I saw the details...my guess is you'll see this game heavily discounted over the course of the next 6th months as distributors will need to move inventory.
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