Toy Story 4 (CE)
Jersey Jack, 2022
Toy Story 4 (LE)
Jersey Jack, 2022You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider PanzerFreak.
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I'm a maybe in about 6 months which should be enough time to see what hardware issues occur (playfield issues for example) and then are resolved in later runs. I love JJP pins, they are incredible, but nearly every release (besides Hobbit) has had a portion of early games affected by playfield issues. At these insane prices I'll gladly wait 6 months to get a game that has factory fixes installed out of the box.
Quoted from Matt1724:Way to many unanswered questions.
1.) I need JJP to actually confirm the theme.
2.) I need to see the playfield layout.
3.) Are we’re getting real Tom hanks, Tim Allen character call outs?
4.) Reasonable price?
5.) What other characters got licensed from Hasbro? Slink-dog, Mr Mrs Potato Head?
As it stands today, I am out but a solid reveal and price could sway me.
4.) Reasonable price?
Stern and JJP
Quoted from CrazyLevi:They just need to get the gang Stern hired for X Men and Avengers and I think everybody will be happy.
“Look on me Mr. Potato Head, for I’m your oldest, deadliest foe”.
Quoted from Goronic:Ironic that Jack is over a Hobbit playfield - that playfield is gorgeous and damn near perfect.
However, the last 5 years have been total crap playfields. Hoping it is back to Hobbit playfield good but I am worried it won’t be based on Mircos responses in the Q&A. I won’t roll the dice to find out as a first day buyer.
If, and that’s a big if, they have corrected them and toy story is good pin I will consider it.
From what I've gathered Hobbit was the last screened JJP playfield, everything since has been digital print. It's now pretty clear that the Mirco digital print playfield quality isn't anywhere close to the quality of their screened playfields.
It's on JJP though for sticking with Mirco despite now having multiple titles with playfield quality issues. Four JJP titles in a row have now been impacted. Why JJP doesn't at least remove artwork around all posts, as Stern did to mitigate chipping / pooling, is mindboggling.
Quoted from Doctor6:Dialed in really is an awesome game, I just wish the multiball was more lucrative. Points potential isn't the greatest with the multiballs.
I hear ya there. Dialed In is a very fun pin but I'm happy to have sold it last year for a TMNT Premium. DI plays for the most part great. The center magnet draining almost 100% of the time in the black hole mode drove me nuts, no setting adjustments ever resolved that issue for me. After a while the theme just waned on me too. I know the DI is focused on disaster modes but the main theme of it is still one about a magical cell phone which now years later I can finally admit is a bit odd lol. My favorite part about DI was the SIM card shot, very few games offer an additional shot (LOTR comes to mind, Gift of the Elves) with a reward after completing a mode. Collecting SIM cards is a very fun hook. If I had more room and pinball funds I would still own one.
Quoted from romulusx:My center magnet rarely drains I would say 1 in 50.I don’t know what software version you were up to but they made it were the power company guy blocks ball from draining.
In the Singularity mode I noticed that the power guy toy would move to block the ball from draining. However, during EMP strike the power guy doesn’t move. During that mode the middle magnets are active but on my game they would rarely prevent STDM drains. I’m sure there was some other adjustments I could have made to have stopped the drains.
Quoted from Optimumsam:It should be half the price of Willy Wonka
If that's the case will give ya $3k each for your Halloween and JP lol. The market doesn't work that way.
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:I seriously don’t understand the disappointment. There look to be troll pop-ups, a playfield mini-display, some great metal ramps, the Whirlwind spinner, plenty of good shots. I think there’s a cross-playfield upper flipper shot. This game has more mechs even than Godzilla, almost as much as Weird Al. What am I missing?
I'm not seeing toys that are on the level of those in Godzilla premium / LE. Godzilla has a large moving building toy with a physical ball lock on top, a rotating ramp that shoots into another toy with a magnet on it, a collapsible bridge that the ball also passes through, and that vertical magnet mech that we haven't seen in a game before. I'm not seeing any big spectacle level type toys on Toy Story 4.
Looks like I'll be sticking with a loaded virtual pinball machine as my next "pin" purchase, wanted to see how this turned out first before proceeding. There's a huge tablet in Toy Story 4, figure I might as well just get a full screen at that point.
Quoted from ZMeny:Toy Story 4 Pinball Featurette (Jersey Jack Pinball, 2022)
An in-depth look into Jersey Jack Pinball's newest pinball machine release: Disney-Pixar's Toy Story 4
Hear about the game's creation from Toy Story 4 pinball designer Pat Lawlor, programmer Joe Katz, and marketer Ken Cromwell. They discuss working with Disney-Pixar, new technologies, and key features of this instant-classic pinball machine.
Join Woody, Buzz Lightyear, and Bo Peep into the world of Toy Story, under glass
Great overview video Zach, the SDTM team, and JJP! Thank you for putting this together, very informative.
I'll disagree with Pat Lawlor on the "In my world designing something in a pinball machine that no one ever sees except for 3 people is a waste of effort and time on our part" comment in regards to rules. A pinball machines ruleset can be approachable, offer multiple approachable modes, have more difficult modes, a mid wizard mode(s), and then also offer the insane Valnor and Somewhere over the Rainbow type wizard mode. There's a reason why many games have a mid wizard mode (or multiple) and then the super level wizard mode.
There needs to be things in regards to rules design that keeps owners coming back for years. A cousin of mine has 6,000+ games on his LOTR that he's owned since 2004, and he was blown a way a couple years back when he saw Valinor for the first time. Modes like that at these insane prices should be in games for long term value and fun. I want to own game that has a super wizard mode that may take me years to reach as there's still always something to go after. The mid wizard mode(s) offer a mode to reach for those great games and then the super wizard mode for a game of a lifetime.
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:although I respect the thought, I actually prefer games that offer a short to medium ball time and do not require a science degree in pinball to complete. It is just not fun for anybody else other than someone who owned the game for 18 years....
There's room for both in a game. I think that's why having at least one, ideally 2-3, mid wizard modes is important to have in game. The mid wizard mode is something that players can reach on a good to great game. Things cannot stop there though at these insane prices. Having that super wizard mode that is only reached on a game of a lifetime is one of the ultimate pinball hooks for me.
I like knowing the despite seeing Battle the Witch on WOZ that I've owned since 2013 that I still have Somewhere over the Rainbow to go after. The same goes for The Hobbit with it's 3 mid wizard modes that I've reached (haven't beat) yet still have There and Back Again, the games super wizard mode, to reach. Dialed In has a similar hook with having to collect the Dialed In letters by collecting SIM cards after completing modes. It's things like that which keep players coming back for years, and decades, to come.
Quoted from DaveH:I thought the exact same thing when I was watching the video. It sounded lazy to me. I own quite a few games that I will never see the Wizard Mode in. I'm not getting to Encore. I'll never see 5 year mission. Do or Die Multiball is just stupid, because I'll never finish enough drones (ok, that one is an exception because nobody will get to Do or Die Multiball). I want something to be there that I can pretend I'm working towards, even if I'm not going to get there.
You hit the nail on the head! I want to own games that have that crazy mode out there to reach super wizard mode. Hearing people reaching Valinor or Somewhere Over the Rainbow on default settings has always left me saying "Damn, that's awesome" and it's then something I want to go after. If it takes me years or never to reach it so be it as there's always the other 95% of the game to play. IMO there's no harm in putting a super wizard mode in a game if there's already some approachable modes up front. A game is actually less appealing to me if it doesn't have a super wizard mode.
Quoted from ECanup122:I have been pretty excited to see the next pin from JJP. Toy Story is not a dream theme for me, but I was still pretty bummed that it is based on the 4th installment. In addition, I was surprised by the "sculpts" which are no comparison to Oz, Pirates, Wonka... etc.
Besides the roof cover on the ball lock and the Gabby Gabby pop up target there are no custom sculpts in Toy Story 4 
Here's the closest thing to sculpts customers get for $12k - $15k. Pretty ridiculous considering the price of the game the custom sculpts that have been in past JJP games. Can't believe I'm using this term with JJP but it comes across as a cost cutting move. For a pinball machine that costs $12k - $15k the last thing that should be in the game are cheap store bought plastic figures. Cactus Canyon SE and LE look like a steal by comparison with the number of sculpts in both games.
Showed my wife a few Toy Story 4 gameplay videos tonight to get her thoughts. She's a casual pinball player and insisted on us buying GNR LE and Wonka LE. She was disappointed to say the least by the videos. There were a number of Forky complaints lol ("Forky is just stupid" for one), commenting how the giant screen is ugly and agreeing with me that a mechanical mech should be there instead, and just a general bewilderment why the game and content is solely focused on Toy Story 4 versus the earlier films. "So disappointing" is what she said by the end. If we are going to drop $12k on a pinball machine we need to love it and sadly this isn't it which is disappointing for us as we really enjoy the earlier Toy Story films.
Quoted from tacreno:What makes you think prices are going to trickle downwards? I've only seen prices go up on every pinball machine in the last 5 years. Some of them are now double what they used to be.
I think he may just mean buy an HUO LE in 6 months to a year for $10k. One problem with these crazy increasing prices on basically unlimited models is that a greater hit is then taken on the secondary market. A $2k hit isn’t terrible I suppose compared to a new car but then again a few years back it was a $500 - $1,000 hit as pricing was lower.
Are there really no mini wizard modes in Toy Story 4? From the rule sheet I’ve looked at there doesn’t appear to be one which would be a first for a Jersey Jack Pinball game.
It just seems odd to not see at least 1 mini wizard mode for completing say 3 or 4 scenes or 6 of 12 carnival modes.
The only standalone mode in this game, where something isn’t being stacked with anything else, appears to the be the main wizard mode. It’s nice to have at least one mini wizard mode that offers players another standalone mode for those good - great gameplay sessions.
Quoted from frolic:Wow. Times have changed.
One compromise we have in my house which still exists now even with teenagers are the phones get surrendered in the kitchen for charging in the evening and they’re phone free for the rest of the night. We watch family TV together because they aren’t pulled away by their phones.
Thats a good idea, will try to remember that one.
I remember my mom telling me when I asked for a cell phone or pager in middle school (this was almost 25 years ago) “If you want to look cool you can wear the garage door opener”. Damn lol.
Quoted from Deez:Let's say you charge $1.00 a play. Of that dollar you have to give .25 to .50 back to the location. So liberally you're taking in .75 cents per game played. The moment a quarter is dropped thru the coin slot the game depreciates by %20 in the eyes of the collector community regardless of how well it is cared for and maintained.
So I need the machine to reach 3200 plays to reach an even point on the purchase. It would take my machines like a year and a half to get that many plays if it remains popular.
In the past this wasn't as big of a deal because the price of the machine raised faster than that depreciation hit on it not being HUO. I have a hard time seeing this title get more expensive over time at this price point. Dealers having them in stock after release day is a pretty good indicator.
I can buy a Godzilla pro for 6800 that has the exact same math but the starting purchase price is so much lower. I don't even typically purchase premium titles because the price vs earnings gap has never made sense as they all earn around the same. I will buy every single CGC game because they are rock solid quality and play amazing and at a lower price point.
The other piece is how awful JJP customer service is. I had the driver board on my GNR go back and JJP straight up accused me of frying it and wanted to charge me $400 for a new one. Eventually after berating them on pinside they sent me a new one but you imagine that a $400 hit with such thin margins isn't a small deal. The playfield just chip away as well when I've never removed a post or done any modifications but JJP blames the customer.
The next logical step is that I need to charge 1.50 or $2.00 a game. I'm just not a believer people will pay it at this point. Maybe I'm wrong. I'd love to hear ideas on how to make it work.
Great points and interesting insight from an operator. The price per game needs to go up due to NIB pricing, especially the higher end ones. One way of doing this IMO is for JJP and Stern to install a device from the factory (or offer it as a cheap option) that supports Apple Pay and credit card touch pay support. People will pay $1.50 - $2.00 a game but I think it needs to support some type of wireless payment system that makes it easy for customers to pay. Have the device right on the coin door with Apple Pay and credit card touch support logos.
IMO if people see $1.50 or $2.00 per game they won't be willing to pay in cash (or even have the 50 cents for $1.50 games) on location but there's a far greater chance of them using a credit card or wireless payment system using their phone.
Quoted from cooked71:Can we all just agree nobody likes Stern Family Guy as much as Rarehero ?
I think he likes Ghostbusters more 
Quoted from jdlang11:There is an LE for sale for 7500 right now.
That’s clearly a fake ad
I'm officially out for now. Have room for 1 more pin and will be picking up a low play HUO Mandalorian Premium. Will happily save about $5k and enjoy a game with more mechs in it, one that actually has mini wizard modes (there are none in Toy Story which is odd) and one with a deeper story based ruleset.
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:Listened to Tripple Drainers and Travis described beating this game like a dead horse, over and over and over. An example he gave is most games feel like you are battling them and they are fighting back. In TS4, the game is not fighting back. Does that effect long term how much enjoyment you’ll get by playing it? It shouldn’t impact desire to play on location but it might if this is going in your home. I generally prefer games that are difficult and I derive pleasure when finally having a good game. Guess that is why my dominatrice is always asking if I want a little more pain. The game has straight forward rules that are easy to learn and understand and game play is easy without having a difficult shot. Buy what you like for your pinball collection. I’m still waiting to play one.
Yesterday I played three JJP’s I don’t own -
Wonka, WOZ and DI. Wonka is my fave of the bunch and I had lots of fun. I played DI for first in a long time. Man that layout is spectacular. I have trouble caring about the rules because I come to pinball to escape life not to feel like I am grinding through a real day. WOZ surprised. It was much smoother than I remembered shooting and game is packed with mechanical wonder. Rules are deep, assets are well done and sculpts pretty. But I don’t care so much for the theme. No game will have everything you want but most have enjoyable aspects.
Good points. The ruleset design in Toy Story 4 is too easy and not deep enough IMO. It's great JJP wanted to make a wizard mode for casuals to get to. Are casuals the ones spending $12k - $15k on a pinball machine? Not likely. I'm not going to spend $12k+ on a pin so one of my non pinball friends can reach a wizard mode...Many of the 7 scene modes are not even scenes at all from the film. Bo Peep loops, Super Super Spinner, and Buzz Quick multiball (hit the pops area while a static Lightyear logo spins)...how are any of those scenes from the film? I don't get it.
I know there's all of these multipliers and other formulas behind the scenes for increasing scoring by completing modes versus attempting, collecting characters, etc. None of that is really interesting IMO compared to having mini wizard modes in a game. Where's the mini wizard modes for completing X number of carnival modes and other objectives? There are none. Modes like Battle the Wicked Witch from WOZ, Into the Fire from Hobbit (+ 2 other mini wizard modes in that game), the 3 album mini wizards modes in GNR, and Wonka's office add depth to games, fun, and a sense of accomplishment for those great games yet there's nothing like that with Toy Story 4. Why? So the ruleset can be easier and more approachable? As someone who puts games into their home that doesn't offer value but rather takes away from it.
Quoted from Deez:I love DI but I feel the same way about the rules. Wtf is spider value? What do the drones signifiy? I have no clue.
Something from the world of Dialed In where there's magical cell phones that grant super powers. Crazy Bob is a futuristic cell phone dealer and you end up with a magical phone. There's drones in the world as I guess it's the future, there's spiders because no one really likes spiders and they are fun to shoot a pinball at, there's a Quantum Mechanic because why not, and then there's the power company guy who...yeah I give up. The theme of Dialed In is very weird, for the years I owned it I felt that I was the only one that understood it while friends and family had a "What the hell is this" look lol. Fun game.
Quoted from Reznnate:For those who keep commenting on the difficulty as 'too easy' for them.... Rumor has it the ACTUAL game designers (from the factory!) have included more-difficult gameplay settings for the 'pros' out there. This is a common feature in video games where the experience is EXACTLY the same PS5 to PS5 which is not true with pinball tables due to pitch, manufacturing differences, rubber types, flipper settings, socks in the outlanes, etc. etc. etc. So it's not like there is any purity of pinball scores game to game.
CHANGE THE DIFFICULTY SETTING if it's too easy for you.
Frankly, if true, it's about time JJP lowered the default setting a bit. Most prior JJP owners will never see the end modes of Woz/Potc/DI, etc. (unless they change the difficulty to super-easy).
No difficulty setting change will add mini wizard modes, add other modes, or improve upon mode choreography. What those settings do is require 5 ramp shots to be made instead of 3, hit the pops 4 times instead of 2, etc. None of that is very interesting.
What you are not mentioning about the other JJP pins is that those games have multiple mini wizard modes in them (well 1 in WOZ). In Toy Story 4 there are none which IMO is disappointing. Mini wizard modes are for those great games and then the super wizard mode for a game of a lifetime (Keith Johnson said something similar). Myself and other owners of the games you mentioned want the crazy super wizard mode to get to as it helps with game longevity to always have something to go after.
Quoted from guitarded:I see about 8-10 people on this site repeating this relentlessly but I have yet to meet a pinhead who has once mentioned BTTF as a Theme they want to see. Not one.
Back to the Future for pinheads would destroy Toy Story in terms of sales and interest. At this point I hope Stern is making it with Elwin designing and Dwight on code. If you think Godzilla is selling well just wait for BTTF pinball assuming it’s done right.
Quoted from Bud:Bahahaha, it’s coming and soon, just wait and it’s going to be bad.
Unemployment is still below 4%, we just a had a nearly 400,000+ new jobs report last month, sure the stock market has tanked a bit but this past week has put the DOW back over 30k. If there is a recession coming it’s going to be mild and to be honest after 10 years of economic growth seems normal. All of this talk of a severe recession is extremely overblown IMO.
It's been 2 weeks since the reveal and I don't feel anymore inclined to buy this game. I've bought every JJP pin but this is the first I'll be passing on. There's a lack of mechanical features and code depth to justify the price tag IMO. Within a week there's already been multiple reports of people reaching both ends of the wizard mode...
One of the primary uses of the 10" screen appears to be for a virtual Tiki Pinball. Instead of an iPad size screen a mini mechanical pinball mech should have been there instead, (Family Guy 2.0 mini playfield) and it would have actually fit the theme much better considering there's a physical Tiki Pinball machine in the movie. Something like that is what would get me to drop $12k on a pinball machine and is what I expect from JJP after past releases. Much of what is played on the 10" screen is redundant information that could be played on the 27" LCD. More often then not there are moments where something related to a mode is being displayed on the 10" screen and then very little on the 27" main display...
Kaneda has leaked the new Toy Story 4 2.0 edition the features the LCD being removed in favor of the Family Guy mini playfield. Stern apparently had a warehouse of the mini playfields that were never used, JJP bought them all and is retrofitting them into Toy Story 4. An existing owner of Toy Story 4 can buy a retro kit for $1,999.99.
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Quoted from jeffgoldstein2:Though the family guy mini playfield gets old fast, it is so much more impactful compared to a ipad screen.
Why waste the corner of the game with no mechanical toy? Put the damn virtual pinball game on the massive 27 inch screen.
2 for 2 now with no good mechanical mechs. Last 2 games JJP released is just a box of excessive number of led lights. GNR prices are tanking and Toy Story 4 will be next.
It is a bummer as JJP has always been the company I looked most forward to with reveals. Now I can careless. Rooting for Stern. They bring the most excitement to the hobby for me.
Yeah exactly, just a bummer to have that area wasted.
I have to disagree about GNR, own an LE and IMO it has far more in it versus Toy Story. GNR has a large upper playfield in the shape of a guitar that features a VUK to a habit rail in the shape of another guitar, a 6 physical ball lock, and 2 ball lock release posts in the shape of bullets. There's also two concert stage light mechs that move all over the place versus just being stationary, a magnet in the back, the main ramp divertor, the moving symbols above one of the pop bumpers. Then there's some items such as one of the ramp rails being drum sticks, habit rails being catwalks, the concert stage LCD, the spinning record disk (no motor though), and on the CE the Coma lock. Plus there's also actual high quality 3D molds that are not cheap off the shelf items.
Quoted from rai:It is fun, but at $12-15k?
I paid $6k for TNA and you can get DI for less than $8K.
Dialed In hasn't been sub $8k in a long time (at least LE's which are the more desirable model). Sold my HUO LE last year for $8500 and it's probably around that or maybe $9k at this time.
Quoted from Ivanhoe:Its fun to play, but JJP jumped the shark with the price; even though I can afford it, the price killed it for me. [quoted image]
Bingo. Fun alone doesn't = I'm going to drop $12k+ on a pinball machine. If fun alone mattered people would happily pay $100 for a pizza lol.
The value for Toy Story 4 in terms of physical mechs, 3D molds, and code depth just isn't there IMO. Have read more reports of average to good players (not pro's) already getting to the wizard mode within 250 plays...pass. Cheap cake toppers all over the place...pass. A back 1/3 playfield with no physical mechs...pass. I'll enjoy this game on location but as I said before the value just isn't there IMO for a home purchase.
The Doc gave some good advice to Marty about Griff asking him at a coin op shop if he's in or out in regards to buying a Toy Story 4. That single purchase ruined Marty's life and the Doc was willing to take him to the future to reverse it. In the end The Doc helps sway Marty into buying a Cactus Canyon Remake.
Played it tonight for the first time and still a strong pass for a home purchase even though I had fun playing it. The issue is simply a lack of mechs, 3D molds and code depth to justify a home purchase IMO. My wife was also dissappointed and said she enjoyed the Mandolorian pro and especially the Cactus Canyon remake that were there far more.
Also, I would say there’s a lack of shots on this game with that being 6 that pass through or drop into an area. Sure there’s a right ramp but it replaces an orbit. Also that area with the 4 pop bumpers…my goodness does the ball go back into the Buzz saucer far too often.
In regards to the 10” LCD just wow. It’s more of a disappointment in person. What a waste of space that should have gone to a mech and odd angle that it is placed at. The Tiki Party video mode played terribly with poor latency.
Overall my wife and I enjoy everything about our Willy Wonka LE far more then anything on Toy Story 4.
Quoted from Dr-pin:Looking at the owners thread. 99% seems to be out.
Has there ever been an owners thread for a new game on pinside beeing more silent?
Will anybody talk about this game in three weeks?
I find it a bit sad after such anticipation.
Guess it´s a combination of things.
Hard times coming.
Way way overpriced.
Lack of imagination and new fun stuff in the game.
Summer isnt optimal for pinball release.
Toy story 4 is clearly the weakest of the four.
Yup. What it comes down to is if you are going to charge $12k - $15k for a pinball machine of all things then at least make it feel like a $12k - $15k pin with mechanical features, custom 3D molds, and code depth. For many TS4 falls short in those categories.
I’ve never felt letdown by a JJP game but Toy Story 4 broke that streak. Come on JJP, $12k-$15k+ for a game with a spinning disk, a pop up bash target, and a pop up ramp? What happened? This game doesn’t represent what fans of JJP are used to.
Quoted from Roostking:Toy Story 4 is that boring it's already died off people's radar. Nobody even wants to talk about it anymore lol
Toy Story 4 pinball? What's that?
Quoted from srmonte:Looks like JJP might be looking for some guidance from the market. I just filled out a survey that was emailed to me from them. I was honest and fair but delivered brutal truths to them. From no mechanics, price, playfield quality just to name a few. Not sure if they will listen but likely TS4 is going to be a black eye for them.
And full disclosure. I spoke with Jack at Texas pinball festival about buying the next machine. Me and my family were really excited. I also like toy story and can get over ts4. But what they gave the Market is embarrassing for them and pat Lawlor.
Also really wanted to buy a Wonka when it was announced. I passed for the same reason. No innovation no newly created mechanics and toys. All I see is lazy cash grabs. Thankfully godzilla is changing the industry. Setting the standard of what a whole package looks like! Theme is last place when the game is amazing.
Wonka LE has been pretty darn cool IMO. There's 6 magnets under the center of the playfield with two clustered areas of 3 magnets. The spinning Gobstopper toy is neat, there's a rotating ball lock underneath the Gobstopper that reveals a shot into a subway, there's the large Wonkavator ball lock mech, a kickback, and the Wonkavision mini LCD in compliment the game. There's far more mechanically going on in Wonka versus in Toy Story.
Quoted from ZMeny:NEW SDTM! Toy Story 4 Pinball Review
Appreciate the video review as always. I can see falling into some of these same scores. Toy Story 4 isn't some terrible game, it's very fun hence the enjoyability score.
The issue many have is value. I think a value category for the review system would be very helpful, especially at today's insane prices. Greg made a comment about sometimes toys being good and sometime being bad. The example of Champion Pub was used for having too many toys and not the best gameplay. The problem there is you can buy a Champion Pub for $7k - $8k while Toy Story 4 starts at $12k...That's $12k for a pinball machine that is void of any toys in the back 1/3rd of the playfield, uses a 10" LCD versus a mech (in an area typically reserved for a mech), has a spinning disk, and a couple pop up mechs. It's just not what customers are used to from JJP and to make matters worse the price is now higher then ever.
Quoted from djsolzs:The only part that made me cringe was trying to compare a watch or gucci shoes and the exorbitant cost of those luxury items to this pinball in terms of value. I just cant get behind that.
There's been a good amount of that with Toy Story 4 (more then usual compared to other releases) which right there should say "Ok, something is off with this game". People are starting to reach with comparisons like that and or just trying to justify the purchase. To be fair we can probably make those comparisons with any pin as all new games are expensive but its those games that are more feature loaded (Godzilla for example) that make us feel that we are getting more value for our money.
If money was no object many of us could care less about the price tag and the features in the game. That's not reality though so I think a good number of customers look at value in terms of what is included in terms of features, mechs and code. Toy Story 4 falls short in all of those areas and in a way that no other JJP pin has before IMO. That's fine, the game isn't for everyone, and there will always be the next title.
Quoted from JSC:Completely disagree with that price convo. Jersey Jack is not Rolex….they do not have a reputation that them apart from other pinball makers and there LEs are bit difficult to obtain. Rolex’s market is driven by demand, reputation and low supply. Jersey Jack completely misread their reputation in the community and the market with their crazy price increase.
Yup. The equivalent to what JJP did would be Rolex coming out with a scaled back watch (less features, no gold, whatever) and then charging more then ever versus previous more feature packed watches.
Quoted from Jaytech10:If you don't believe me there is a thread on pinside about it. Chromecandy.com did the testing. Twenty84 is his pinside name.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/why-remakes-dont-play-like-originals#post-3993478
A .05ms - 4.5ms delay flipper delay versus the original? That's an awesome test no doubt but also seems extremely minimal. I'll happily take updated hardware, RGB lighting, a larger display, and everything being new over an original.
Good comparison.
Quoted from Freakyguy666:That Red CHROME finish looks stunning in person…and that Topper is very unique—unlike any other topper ever made…and the game itself is very fun…Code will only get deeper…and once we put more time between the hate—which is at a fever pitch right now—I predict Toy Story will be viewed in a much better light…bottomline: I think your CE sale price will prove to be the low watermark…
BTW: You could possibly get an LE now from Robby (who’s waiting for the CE, like me) for just over $10K…why wait?
Code will only get deeper? This is the new JJP, there’s rarely code updates released that add anything new in terms of gameplay and polishing existing modes. Here's the changelog for the last four Toy Story updates...To be fair the game seems fairly code complete at launch. The games code is also purposely not as deep as past games to somehow make it more approachable, a huge mistake IMO considering the number of people that buy these games to put in their home.
Quoted from Lermods:I don’t think the code is an issue and depth is overrated. How many people have been to somewhere over the rainbow in woz? I like my game a lot, have had it now maybe 2 months or so and its been getting the most play. The game shines because of how approachable it is, very easy to understand and rewarding to progress. If you are a world class player, this game probably isn’t for you, but if you are an average player, it’s a lot of fun. I don’t want a 25 page rule sheet, which is why I sold my AIQ. People seem to be upset about the game because of the price, which I understand.
The purpose of modes like Somewhere Over the Rainbow in WOZ is for that game of lifetime, Keith Johnson has said that. That's why there's also mini wizard modes in games that are for those great games. There's still approachable rules for novices, depth for those that progress deeper into the game (Battle the Wicked Witch mini wizard mode), and then a far out there mode that may takes months or years to reach (Somewhere Over the Rainbow). It's those types of games that I want in my collection and that will earn my money.
Having a mode like Somewhere over the Rainbow in a ruleset only enhances a games value IMO. Pinball rules are static, once the code is considered complete there's no expanding on the ruleset. The deeper the ruleset the better for me as I keep games in my collection for years and always want something to go after. With WOZ your normal to good players can focus on collecting the 4 gems to start Battle the Wicked Witch. For the advance players there's collecting all of the diamonds to start Somewhere Over the Rainbow. WOZ today wouldn't be as well regarded if it didn't have that diamond collect and Somewhere Over the Rainbow hook in its ruleset. I would also bet that the game wouldn't have sold as well if it hadn't been for it's depth.
Take LOTR for example, I've used this example before but a cousin of mine has 6,000+ plays on his. He's played that game for years, never reached Valinor, but when he did after years of ownership he was blown away that he got to a play a mode he had never seen before. There's a game that also has fairly easy to start main modes, an excellent mini wizard mode for those great games (Destroy the Ring), and then a mode for a game of a lifetime (Valinor). There's no harm in having modes like Valinor in a game when there's approachable rules in front of it.
Quoted from snaroff:Yep...DTR is fairly easy achieve, "There and back again" is much tougher (for completing all the modes), and Valinor REALLY tough. I've owned the game since 2004 and still haven't been to Valinor, but get to TBA once in a blue moon. The beauty of LOTR is not only the depth, but the ease of understanding each specific mode. Today's games where "everything is blinking" can be pretty manic
You said it well! Lord of the Rings does such an amazing job of letting the player simply enjoy each mode on its own and the mode choreography within it. So many modern pins now have multiple modes running at once, and with the same animation running or flying all over the place. It all ends up coming across as a mess at times.
What's a bit odd with that armor is that Andy really isn't in Toy Story 4, the movie is not about him at all.
Quoted from Freakyguy666:Flynn’s breakdown boiled down to a confirmation of my statement: TS4 has more than double the number of coils as GZ….sorry to break it to ya, but BOM is a factor in pricing…but keep on hatin’…it’s fun to watch…[quoted image]
We all know by now though that more coils doesn’t necessary mean a better or an even more loaded game. Same goes for value.
Let’s compare motorized mechs, magnets, and detailed molds in GZ and Toy Story 4. Would you rather have 4 pop bumpers or a large motorized moving building with a motorized moving physical ball lock on top of it? Would you rather have a pop up bash toy (Gabby Gabby) or a motorized moving ramp that reveals a shot to a mechagodzilla mold with a magnet that captures the ball? Would you rather have a kick out shot or a breaking bridge mech? Would you rather have a ramp divertor or a magnetic newton ball mech? Would you rather the custom molds in GZ or the $20 Amazon cake toppers in Toy Story?
It’s toys, mechs, and molds in the examples above that help show coil count alone doesn’t mean more fun (or even more value). Motorized mechs, magnets, and molds mean just as much if not more then coils.
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:have not met anybody that disliked it yet. World under glass for me. It is fun.
That’s good to hear, yeah it’s definitely a fun game. I still understand and agree with the value arguments. For the price there really should be more in it but it is what it is at this point. That doesn’t take away from the fun factor but the pricing is still pretty ridiculous. Same goes for Stern. It’s hard to argue value anymore when all of these games are priced so ridiculously high.
With that being said the CE is one beautiful damn pinball machine, just wow! The way the playfield and radcals pop is pretty jaw dropping. I’ve never seen my reflection in a pinball decal but did tonight lol.
Quoted from Roostking:TS4 is
Prett bold move If you consider the supposed high ranking of GB. I personally never really liked it much so I could see you moving onto something new. Interested in your thoughts.
Yeah I may live to regret it but a straight up trade for a Toy Story CE was hard to pass up. I’m not sure if I left money on the table with my GB Premium (I had already sold the topper earlier in the year) but felt that the trade was fair. It was nice trading a game for a change and not having to bring a bunch of cash, felt good.
Quoted from explosiveegg:If the machine was set to factory settings, then the unlimited kickback is an award you can get from the wheel.
In settings, you can adjust it so that the unlimited kickback is on a timer, it really ought to be set that way by default as the left outlane is how ~80% of ball are lost.
In a home setting, you can physically tweak it to be more difficult by increasing the right outlane spacing and remove the post or just the rubber on the left outlane and there are hundreds of gameplay adjustments that can be used to make it more difficult in settings.
Thank you for the tip, I'm going to change that setting!
Finally got my CE setup. TS4 CE is definitely the most impressive looking game I’ve owned, I’m pleasantly surprised. The topper must weight 30lbs or more lol. Absolutely stunning.
A998687C-C389-4532-9B8A-C1927F8FE722 (resized).jpeg
Quoted from Oneangrymo:Got my ce coming Wednesday are they still pretty hernia causing heavy ?
Quoted from explosiveegg:Yes, JJP games are still noticeably more heavy than games from other manufacturers.
For sure. I moved Ghostbusters premium out the same night I brought Toy Story in and the JJP game must weigh 50 - 100lbs more. JJP definitely uses some heavy duty components but I think most of the extra weight is in the head which is completely made out of wood versus Stern's heads that are mostly sheet metal.
Quoted from Dr-pin:Finally had a chance to play this at location......
Not much in it. I was kind of schocked actually.
Place this next to a dialed in and most would bet dialed in cost the doubble.
On shots not much there either.
If i bought it, it wouldnt stay for more then a month.
Really? There’s a jump ramp with two moving Benson posts, spinning wheel, pop up character mech, real mechanical kickback, one drop target, 4 pops, the 10” mini LCD, and a physical ball lock. Sure it doesn’t have a ton but it’s comparable to a lot of modern games.
Dialed In doesn’t cost twice as much as the theme is terrible…that’s always held that game back. Both games are great shooters thanks to Pat.
Quoted from Dr-pin:i´m a 57 years old senior consultant pulmonologist, i assure you, in my world nothing regarding pinball is considered cool.
If you like it, it´s great. I really loved hobbit and had it here for a long time, due to immersion and rules.
For me, there was nothing in it.(TS)
Would you really say compared to Woz, hobbit, pirates and gnr, that it didn´t lack effort?
I've owned all of those, Hobbit just left (just grew tired of it, fun game) while Toy Story 4 CE is never leaving. The one area that I think shows a lack of effort in TS is the 10" LCD. That area should have been used for an actual physical mech. JJP's uses a 27" LCD as the main display yet somehow the game needed a 10" LCD in a prime real estate area of the playfield? I don't get that decision. At least there's a bunch of unique animations for it and it's implemented well across all the game modes.
The game has a decent amount going on it, see my post above. I would make that case that Toy Story 4 has 2x the number of toys that interact with the ball as JJP's latest title Godfather (a smaller spinning disk and a basic lift ramp). Most of the mechs in TS are at and or below the playfield which at first glance can give the illusion of the game coming across as rather bear until those items activate. That jump ramp is now one of my favorite shots in pinball. The main mechs that are there, the jump ramp with the two posts, the spinning disk, and the character pop up mech all feel fairly substantial. Like Toy Story 4 or not the jump ramp is a substantial interactive mech, there's really nothing like that in GNR or Godfather.
Code wise the ruleset is more approachable compared to some of JJP's past titles yet still offers a lot to do. It's cool that there's 7 objectives clearly laid on the playfield for how to get to the games wizard mode, which has multiple stages and two different paths to it. There's also 11 carnival modes, and I think 5 or 6 multiballs in the game. Overall the ruleset in TS feels more focused and far less generic IMO compared to Pirates and GNR. JJP also went out and hired Tim Allen, Annie Potts, and Tom Hank's brother for custom callouts. I wouldn't describe any of that as a lack of effort.
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