Well, I'll admit... Toy story was a dream theme for my family.

Until the travesty that is toy story 4.

I had been assuming that this theme from JJP would be based on the entire franchise, and I was just hoping that they would lean heavily toward the original movie or at least the first three.

But the whole theme is 4 only? Wow. I am truly dumbfounded.

I seriously get the feeling that sometimes, JJP literally goes out of their way to misunderstand what the actual fans of a theme would want in a pinball game.

Here are some examples of TOYS that most toy story fans would want in a game, and could also make great interactive pinball toys:

Woody
Buzz
Jessie
Zurg! (Imagine the battle opportunities)
Andy (seriously, where is Andy??)
Mr/Mrs Potato Head
Slinky Dog
The aliens and the claw
Bullseye
Etch a sketch
The pig (I forget his name)
Little green army men

This is off the top of my head but the list could go on. All of this seems pretty under represented. I guess it could show up on the screen but this stuff needs to be physically represented. At least some of it.

Here's a list of things most toy story fans probably don't give a crap about:

Carnivals
Gabby Gabby
Benson??
A rabbit and duck
Weird ventriloquist dummy dudes
Forky (ok I admit some people do like Forky)

You are a lucky, lucky person.

Lol. That's actually a pretty good idea, I like it. BUT--- I'd think that if the player is Andy then some of Andy's actual beloved toys should be on the playfield and interactive so that the player can actually play with them.

Plus the game would need to be based on the earlier films.

Well that's why they need to be interactive and only come to life when Andy hits the shot.

Kids know Rocky and Bullwinkle?

I would posit that with TS4, we actually have the opposite situation.

I think that true Toy Story fans like myself and my family, will, in general, not be fans of this pinball machine. Because most Toy Story fans are actually NOT fans of the film Toy Story 4. And the game does not contain most of the characters, settings, etc that are loved within the world of toy story.

That being said, the game itself looks fun! When the game itself is judged by pinheads based on gameplay, it may turn out to be a winner. ( Or not, I haven't played it yet so I don't know).

Therefore, people who are just casually into toy story or not really into it at all may very well like this game more than actual toy story fans. Because if you don't care about the theme then you can just judge the game itself.

Of course there are also some people who will be turned off by what they see as a "kids" theme. But that would probably be true no matter how well the toy story theme was executed.

Toy story 4 is a fantastic film?

Well at least you're sticking to your guns. I can respect that!

I'd say that WOZ has more than one mini wizard mode. It depends on how you define "mini wizard mode" I guess.

I assume you're referring to the melt the witch mode.

In my book, all of the following are also mini wizard modes:

Munchkin multiball
Haunted multiball
Flipper frenzy

I don't know, maybe they should be called "mini-mini wizard modes", since each of them is sort of a wizard mode for one particular feature.

I view them as full on mini wizard modes because I reach them very infrequently - far less frequently than melt the witch.

Ok, fair enough.

For me, these mulitiballs in WOZ are pretty hard to get to. So my overall point is that there is a lot in WOZ to keep players engaged within the ruleset.

As a toy story fan, let me say that this is simply not true. On the playfield, the game features all the wrong characters. Most toy story fans do not want Gabby Gabby, or the ventriloquist dude or the motorcycle guy or the rabbit and duck.

Honestly, most toy story fans watched the fourth movie once, and proceeded to erase it from their minds as if it never existed.

Yeah, maybe so.

Hey at least he's a lot better than the supposed big new character who literally thought of himself as garbage and repeatedly had to be stopped from killing himself who was supposed to be comic relief.

But yeah... Being people's "favorite new character from TS4" is not a big achievement and certainly doesn't mean that he is a beloved character from the franchise.

Even the best characters from TS4 are less loved by toy story fans than almost any other character from the series.

Well I just played TS4 for the first time yesterday. From my posts earlier in this thread, you can see that I was very disappointed in the choice of TS4 instead of toy story, and the implementation of said theme in the game (as I'm a fan of the toy story franchise, and therefore NOT a fan of toy story 4, the movie).

Anyway, I didn't discuss the game or theme at all with my family, I just wanted to see what they'd say with no influence from me. Here are some quotes from my wife and kids while playing:

'Aren't Woody and buzz in the game?'

'why do they have that rabbit and duck but not buzz and Woody?'

'where are the little green men?' - which in their language actually means the aliens who say "the claw" all the time

'who is that little girl sticking her head up? Am I supposed to hit her in the face?'

'Ohhhh, it says 'Gabby Gabby'. I think that's the doll from that, like, store with all the old toys.'

'why does that thing keep spinning?' (the disc)

The game ended and they all went to play mandalorian, gotg and dialed in !

Personally, I thought the game shoots pretty well and it's fine, as a pinball game. Nothing special in any way. Big miss on implementation of toy story theme. Because, well, it's NOT.

Did you even read the thread you linked?

If you read the whole thread you'll see that the flipper delay they was debunked. The OP of that thread initially did the test incorrectly.

Just jump to post #460 in that thread for the conclusion.

These are some great points, and I just want to add that there are a LOT of people who READ pinside, but do not have accounts. I was one of them for years. Before that, I also read RGP religiously for many years, but never posted.

At the moment I'm writing this, there are 789 pinsiders online, and 624 guests online. So, I don't think just looking at the number of games owned by pinsiders is reflective of pinside's overall influence on the market.

So, yeah, a license like TS4 might have legs outside of pinsiders. I guess the target non-pinside market would be families (maybe grandparents) who want a family friendly game just for kicks, but at the same time, are only casually acquainted with the toy story franchise?

"Ooooh toy story! The grandkids will love it, let's get that one!"

Yeah very true. I have no idea if any of "the pin"s are selling well, that'd be interesting to see.

I just think for TS4, there was a big opportunity to capture a good portion of the pinside market by making a killer game with awesome toys, while at the same time capturing fans of the toy story franchise as first time pin buyers.

But with TS4, I think they're going to miss out on large portions of both of those markets.

Umm, ok? I'm not sure what this even means. Send me all of the top players' contact info, and I'll tell them, I guess.

Or just point them to that thread, where they'll be able to see that the CGC flipper delay myth is just that. It's right there in the data.

ETA:. On second thought, don't even bother. I'm sure all of the top players in the world are already hanging on my every word and following this thread religiously. So, we're covered.

I completely agree with this statement, however, as with most things in life there are probably gray areas. Or at least, different interpretations of who broke someone's trust.

I think it depends on each individual situation. For example, I can imagine a scenario where a dealer tells a buyer something like "JJP will be releasing the Toy Story pin next month. We don't have a lot of details but I can put you on the list if you want ". The buyer agrees and says he's definitely in for Toy Story, knowing full well that he hasn't seen the game and there's some risk.

Then the game comes out and it's... NOT toy story. It's TS4. And now the buyer wants to back out.

So, who broke trust here? In the dealer's mind, hey, it's still toy story. But to any toy story fan (and even most casual fans) TS4 is not the same as the full toy story series.

It all comes down to the ridiculous "buy before you even see the game" mentality. And this goes two ways, because the dealers are selling them before they've even been seen.

So yeah, I'd say sometimes a dealer is going to get burned, and the customer is not always in the wrong for backing out of a "deal".