I like my TS4CE , my wife actually wants to play this pin with me , my kids love it and play it daily . I guess if you don’t have kids or grandkids you will never realize the value TS4 can bring . Sometime you have to be able to think bigger than just yourself.

I understand that everyones preferences may be different, but honestly, TS4 is my favorite pin. I have a Godzilla which is a great pin as well, very fast, deep in rules, good lighting effects, but ... TS4 is just not only fun to play, but also a beautiful pin. I also have WW, DI and GNR from JJP, a couple of other Sterns and a 1993 Corvette, as I have a Vette as my fun car.
I sincerely believe that what has caused the adversity toward TS4 is the price, which I agree is high. Unfortunately, I don't think prices are coming down. Look at Stern and the price for their James Bond pin.
It is an expensive hobby, but lots of fun and if you play your cards right you can recover most of your investment. Enjoy your hobby and the excitement of buying, trading, and playing a good pin.

I agree with this as well.

Take for example Bond, I have been approached by several people to ask if I want to buy the LE at cost (not marked up). Normally I would be like sure, but the price has got out of hand. People were thinking (in the past) they could get an LE and it would go up in price. I see DP LE ads for $15K (or whatever) but this is not the case with Bond as the LE is already $13K and it's not as limited in number as most other LE games. So there is less scarcity.

I love Tron (I would compare it to TS4 or the new TNA). Sadly I did sell Tron before this time when prices took off. I sold a great example for $6700. this was over two years ago and now a comparable Tron would probably go for $10-11K with mods and the condition etc.. It's a different perspective because TS4 and TNA are both now being produced and Tron is not but the value proposition is similar where (to me) Tron is a $6-8K pins all day long or that's what I value them as so I am stuck without the ability to buy Tron at what I feel is a reasonable price. I saw this on the TNA thread where people were aghast that TNA was now being offered at $9-10K. If Stern did make Tron again and asked for $9K (this is stock so you'd need to spend another $2K on mods) people would maybe also be mad at that but the reality is that Tron is somehow a $10K pin now.

Great you are loving TS4. Pins don't go up & down uniformly. The great/scarce games go up much faster than so-so games that will be in production for years. Despite what you may think, TS4 is currently considered a so-so game by many Pinsiders at best (and it will be in production for years). Pinsiders are still paying up for GZ Premiums because Stern was unable to keep up with demand. Very low play TS4 LE's are already selling below MSRP. So while it's great TS4 is your favorite pin, the community apparently feels differently. As many of us have said in other posts, it's not just about price, either. Many of us are simply disappointed with the design point for the game. I do agree it's a beautiful pin...true for all the JJP games.

Simply put, if the game was based on TS 1-3 price would not have mattered and jjp wouldn’t be able to keep up with orders. Game is beautiful, probably really fun, but it’s a carnival game with toy story mixed in. Not what we wanted or expected. Price wouldn’t have mattered.

Top 3 most beautiful pin Ive ever seen (the CE). The game itself just didnt meet my expectations. Looking to get more time on it

So curious what the Steve Ritchie title from JJP is going to look like. I hope the change of scenery helps him go nuts with something wild. Much better to go out on a big WTF than a meh.

Curious what other games you have in the top 3?? To me the beautiful playfield (with sparkle inlays), incredible lighting, Chrome Red Armor, artwork, unique fiber optic topper, razor sharp animations on the back glass screen (better than any other pin in history), and the lighting (yes its so awesome it must be mentioned twice!), and the unmistakable Pixar Classic Plunger…it just stands apart from any other pin when in attract mode…again, I’d be curious what pin you’d rank higher on just purely aesthetics….that’s worth a lot to Collectors by the way…and a big reason why it is unlikely to drop much in the long run…~$13k is the bottom…

I didn’t rank any higher I just said top 3… could be #1. It’s like asking what’s your favorite movie or album hard to say definitively. GNR is a beautiful game, WOZ, Ghostbusters… just a few others tho I hate to throw a stern in the list. It’s damn impressive.

Magic Girl

Not OP, but I still think Cirqus Voltaire is the prettiest game ever made.

The colors of the silk screened playfield and the hand drawn artwork on the backglass can't be beat. I also love how the backglass art is uninterrupted and fills the whole space. Throw in some powder coating and a colored DMD to really make everything feel complete.

TS4 comes second in terms of beauty in my book.

Though Ghostbusters and Magic Girl are close behind.

RR Woz, CE wonka, pirates, gnr le, and hobbit are all equally as beautiful and I’d rank woz and hobbit above ts4 in looks.

So you have TS4 CE or have you seen it in person?

I’ve seen it sitting next to all those games and the attention it gets is second to none.

Don’t forget we’re including the backbox & screen in the equation and there’s no way old Grainy Woz movie clips outshine cutting edge renders of beloved modern characters by Pixar/Disney….not even close.

I own
Stranger things Le
Godzilla LE
Jurassic park Le
Iron maiden Le
Mandalorion LE
Elvira prem
Deadpool prem
GnR ce
Annnnnnd TS4 ce…
I’ve own all the big Bally/Williams heavy hitters.
MM royal etc

I gotta say is my favourite pin out of everything I have right now, maaaaaaybe side by side with my Stranger things.

It has great replay ability, everyone that complained about it without playing, that played it at my place… ate their words.

Same complaints about Stranger things when it came out.

Not every theme can be rock or horror.

The only thing I didn’t like about it is the price.
That and I would of been happy with just a LE and saved some cash.

But over all. Killer pin that I play the most since it came out.

Hope that helps some people that are on the fence. If you can get it for lower then retail. You won’t be disappointed.

That being said, does anyone have the solution to the topper opto error?

Not sure what’s causing it, but I know I saw it mentioned in the thread.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

I think I saw someone mention it was 2 wires reversed.

From a different thread :

"or mine the Duke Kaboom wheel was not secured to the post. There are 2 set screws that need to be tightened against the flat part of the post, with the Kaboom wheel pushed all the way in.

Error is gone, and the Duke Kaboom works great. (Before my wheel would go around, but wouldn't always stop in the right place.) "

Also in settings you can turn off the red dot on the screen and the alert on power up. Hit the enter button once and any errors will still be there.

LTG : )

You do realize art is completely subjective right? The ts4 is gorgeous, but every jjp has been. As far as the grainy video on Woz, you obviously can’t appreciate classic film. I wouldn’t have it any other way. You sound like one of those guys that prefers the Star Wars special edition movies over the original films. Again, no jjp choice is wrong when talking about looks, and I’d put Woz and hobbit over all of them, but that’s simply my subjective opinion.

TS4 CE is about to debut at #1 and dethrone GZ in the pinside ranking. I expect JJP to take this as a sign that their pricing was correct and what people want is even bigger iPads covering their playfield.

Love this oxymoronic post. Classic example of a nefarious statement. Well done m00nmuppet!

Actually keeping the trend, jjp is a virtua pin manufacturer in a couple of years.
Less and less mechs and more screen and lights.

You do realize you didn’t answer my question right?

“ MM royal etc
I gotta say is my favourite pin out of everything I have right now, ”

You buried the headline bro….

Well, since you seem to value hi-def video so much, I’ve only seen it in hi-def and hi-res images. Yes, game is beautiful, but again all the jjp games are and again, it’s subjective. How you would fault a game like woz for using original footage is mind boggling to me. Woz and hobbit are possibly/probably the 2 best theme integrated games ever. Near perfect implementation imo. RR Woz and Hobbit LE imo are also the best looking jjp games, and the screen images play no part in anything. And, no I don’t have a tsce, or seen one in person, but again your value of images apparently is high, so just comparing images alone, I’m still sticking to my opinion.

Agreed. Stern added some very talented new blood to the roster in recent years, and still retained highly capable John Borg and George Gomez, who are still designing pins. With Elwin and Eddy, that’s a very solid team.

Ts4 is a super model that barks like a seal and lies perfectly still while you have sex with her. Of course it is going to get a ton of attention, initially, based on looks. But often times people dont wanna play it again after one or two goes.

lies perfectly still while you have sex with her. Wow WTF

The King of Clunk.png

That’s the only part of your post that was relevant…thanks for confirming!

That explains a lot…thanks for confirming.

Whew, bullet dodged. Alien ended up taking the #1 away from GZ, which is a nice twist, really glad Pinball Bros are getting more of those into the wild, it's a cool machine. And more sales will keep them polishing the code, which is already pretty good.

No problem, and thanks to you for being the authority on all things related to subjective pinball art opinions. It’s been helpful

Lol, you gotta be shittin' me. Oh well, I don't follow the top 100 anyway, sounds like I'm not missing much.

You’re welcome, and here’s some more help….The difference between seeing something first-hand vs in photos is not insignificant…and that’s not an opinion….

Not really sure what your problem is or why you seem to need to argue. I already said the game is beautiful. I also said art and looks are subjective. Do you know the definition of subjective? Look it up. I’m done discussing it with you. I’m happy for you and your subjective opinion.

TS4 is now # 24 on Pinside Top 100

Everyone is so sensitive I'm just saying you're saying you're getting a heck of Deal with a Corvette when comparing price and specs which means you were comparing price you're saying you're getting a good deal.

Ahows how flawed the rankings are. Top 24!! Dropping like a rock in price!!

Reconcile that with games on the marketplace not selling at 2K off MSRP.

Proof that this rating system means nothing.

Do we really believe it is better than TWD, BM66, BSD, Star Trek, or Spider Man?

And Alien being currently number 1: Chef's kiss.

The market is terrible right now, for sure.

I don't think this invalidates the entire rating system. New games have always been a wild card. How many times did we see the latest Stern release debut in the #1 spot over the last decade? It used to be as predictable as the sunset. Cactus Canyon had it's moment recently too. It doesn't take long for them to settle into a more realistic spot as more people enter their ratings and it's easy enough to just ignore them until then.

Easy: Great game but price was higher than most willing to pay…FYI: rankings don’t even take MSRP/value into account…

And you completely missed the point….

You're right, there's not a category for that.
I guess because it really only matters when NIB, after that point the market drives the price up or down based on supply/demand.

That is why the CE’s will outperform LE’s in the long run…

I really like Stern SW, it’s ranked in the 40’s or so. It did pop up to #1 once the Comic edition rating was added. But it has since settled back down to where it was rated before. I believe Alien will settle back down in time, it’s just the 50 owners or whatever number it needs to get on the official list that drives it way up.

yeah... NOPE. The code for Alien is completed and has been for years.
\PB is only updating THEIR OWN side of the code, which runs their OS and respective hardware - which is very buggy - but these updates do nothing to the game modes or actual playability.

I spent way too much time on the Alien thread as I waited for my machine. Finally cancelled my order 1 month ago and I am happy I did.

I also joined this club today, I played this game non-stop for hours at a friends house. The game is fantastic. I also own most of the top 10 machines ever made. I like TS4 a lot!
The price was fine with me as I did not pay MSRP. I respect that, would not pay that for a game so hated but the truth is, if you think this game is bad, you know little about what makes pinball fun - yup, that was a little troll move on my behalf - Now, I go to bed I will dream of the people who can't own this game but made a poor review of it because they watched it on a stream.

Sleep well.

There are several unspoken positives in TS4 that even the haters cannot deny….playfield has zero issues…the shots are ultra smooth but still challenging—just not to the point of frustration, and no mechanical issues beyond minor easy adjustments….and of course the beauty (especially the ce) of the unit is second to none…just curious what you think of the TS4 depth vs your other pins…what gives this the “just one more game” factor since all we hear is how “easy” or “shallow” it is…

I am shocked the routers are not snapping these up, all we heard was how much money they were taking in week after week.

Not many in the wild, and I would think this cash cow would be all over at these discounted prices.

You nailed it. It is the one more game factor that many of the deeper games do not have. Easy shots? sure, maybeeee, but can you get them? lol. Can you score well? Try and report back lol.

IT is very much ok to have one or two very deep games in your collection... But how many times am I gonna save Nublar island tonight? Zero is the norm, everybody dies in Nublar lol or gets eaten by Dinos BUT TS4 is refreshing, easy to listen to and just plain fun that can deliver a quick or moderate longer game depending on how good you are or how lucky. The animations in the game are absolutely the best in pinball, with custom made scenes for the game for the most part I think - but might be wrong -. The dang thing will be worth 30K in 5 years mark my words. There is no way around this, the last Pat Lawlor, you gotta live in some distorted reality if you think otherwise. The game shoots great, I have played most JJPS, and I never liked them before. This thing pulled me in like no other JJP ever before.

I also, really do not want all my collection to be impossible mission after impossible mission and this one isn't that easy either... Neither my friend or I got to any wizard modes and we are not bad players nor we were drunk, lol. We played for hours unsuccessfully.

I enjoy it, I think my kid might enjoy it to and could be a good excuse to play together. She hates all my other pins (6 year old) so it is now or never and this theme is great.
Hate all you want. TZ has a few magnet and mini playfield that is boring as hell and gumball and it is regarded as the one of the best. Have you played it lately, I had not touched one in 30 years and I nearly completed the game at a friends house recently on ball 2 I had nearly 1 B points, it's gotta be one of the easiest pins to play. Still is top 10.
People are hating the price and the lack of mechs, I get it. I would not pay MSRP, I did not. all good.

Who cares! play what you like not what the top 10 says. I never followed that stuff! I owned themes I didn't even like just because the game was so fun, JP Stern is one of them, Iron Maiden another (dont even care for the music!)....

Watched all the Toy Story flicks again in order. Was shocked to find that Toy Story 1 was easily the best, I thought it might be dated in terms of execution and animation but nope, it rules the roost. Such a shame we'll never get a pin for it. No Pizza Planet, No Sid's backyard. What a wizard mode that race to get on the moving truck would've been. Damn.