Bump.

But you implied you were giving up pinball in general, not NIB purchases. Big difference.

Missed this.

You still need drugs lol.

*Probably* not giving up pinball in general, but it has certainly dropped in stature on my priority list by a lot.

Because of price? I mean, there is more to pinball than the newest release. Just saying.

Everyone's engagement with the hobby is different.

Mine is: I like modern LCD-era games, especially JJPs as they (before Toy Story) had the rule depth I liked.

I've played what's out there so, unless new product comes out I'm done with the segment of the hobby I care about.

New and fresh.

Fyi. New Lambos and Ferraris are expensive af. What hobby are you moving into?

Not my bag, I'm a Porsche guy.

Not sure which hobby is next, might focus on something productive and revenue-generating instead.

No interest in golf or other sports.

You should stick with pins. Maybe they dont appreciate at 25% anymore, but still fun?

Ugh. Living your life one .25 percentage point at a time.

You are misunderstanding my position on this.

I don't need pins to appreciate. I buy them for what they are, at the price they are.
But people have thresholds for what a specific thing is worth TO THEM.

Example: Some people are content to drive Camry, some drive Porsches. To the Camry people, paying more than 35K (or whatever they cost) is not worth it because in their mind and for their preferences, "no car is worth more than that."

This is where I am with pins. They've pushed the pricing up to a tier that just doesn't interest me. I won't get 15K fun out of a CE pin.

Totally agree!!!

I would 2nd this statement. It is getting very hard for me to fork over $$$ and justify to the wife why I must buy pinball X. That happened recently with the re-run of TNA.

She knew i've been wanting it for quite some time so this is probably my pass. However, after paying $11.5K for Wonka LE this summer, I just can't anymore.... Can't. I'm sure I can stick with 90's machines, but then I have the good ole California space issue.

Wish I was located closer to a pinball center to play loads of games, but I'll stick with the few machines a local eatery has to offer for now.

Maybe after global recession resell market will go back down again?

Well, not hoping for global recession but hard not to deny what is happening globally.

Exactly my feelings. Pound for pound, the pinball machine price to fun ratio has turned into a terrible value as prices keep going up.

Played TS4 a lot last night at the expo and I’m turning into a big fan. I think I’ll try to pick one up sometime this coming summer.

So every new release that was once a Porsche, cause it was new and fresh and fun, is now a Camry cause its not new, but still fresh and fun. Or like many classics, not even fresh?

Is TS4 a Porsche to the Godzilla Camry just because its newer?

Anyway, bummer to see ya go, you were always pretty level headed!

Nah. TS4 is a Ford Pinto that thinks it’s a Porsche.

This is getting old

Pinball is a small and loyal community and manufacturers basically told them to go fuck themsleves for short term greed

I wasn't going to re-engage but damn you COMPLETELY missed the point of the analogy.

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The point is that all goods have a price point at which it's no longer worth it to a consumer.
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That price varies with each consumer based on their own personal financial situation and preferences.
For me, pinball has hit that threshold.

If you go on vacation and spend $9k then you have spent $9k. If you buy a TV for $5k and after x years it’s worth zero you have spent $5k on the tv.

If you buy a pin for $9k play it for a few years and sell it for $8k it only cost you $1k.

Now true a $15k CE could lose more than a $9k premium pin but it’s still not going to cost you $15k unless it’s worth zero on resale.

Couldn't agree more. I love tech and sports cars, but grew up in a very middle class family. Just can't justify the cost of owning a Lambo/Ferrari/McLaren. I'm happy with a Corvette. Love the way Chevy cares about making a world-class sports car that is fairly affordable to the masses. Unlike Acura, who decided to make the NSX almost as expensive as a Lambo/Ferrari/McLaren. No thanks. When it comes to autos, my range is 75-125k. My latest Corvette was 77k IIRC. A Ferrari is ~4x the cost...the upkeep and insane depreciation if you actually drive it is for folks that like to burn $$. Not my vibe

IMG_3968 (resized).jpeg

At that price I'd be back in.

But priced like a Bugatti.

You imply that Pinball is not for you, because you cant justify the peice for new pins. That is the vibe i get from you. To be clear, do you still like playing your current pins?

Wonka won't go anywhere. We still play that one a lot.
Pirates, we'll see. For the right exorbitant price I'd let it go.
Guns is on the way out in trade for TBL. We'll see what kind of staying power TBL has.

Oh yea i think good move on the Guns! TBL looks amazing and what a story. Ive never even seen one though....

TBL not gonna have the staying power the way you guys play em Derek.

Fun game but not thousands of games fun.

Wonka is phenomenal. Can TS be that bad by comparison?

It's not a bad game at all, it's just too easy to get through AND too expensive for such a short-termer.

Wonka is great value = years of playability. JJP's best code.

I agree with this line of thinking and really enjoy my 700 HP normally aspirated C-5 for 1/3 of your range. 0-60 in 2.9, 205 top speed, and still crushes it in auto cross. I can't see why to spend more. Maybe a Tesla Plaid that is a real value for speed and ease.

When you think of what Toy Story pinball could've been ---> a pinball machine that was actually about Toy Story.

With actual cool toys in it.

And instead it's a bland layout with colorful lights - and the top of the playfield is half-buried under a tablet screen, which is such an anti-toy gesture it's almost a bad joke.

Im not there myself, But if you have to ask how much something cost you can't afford.

That’s a reasonable trade, I’ve owned both and Lebowski is excellent, especially with the new code, however it may not hold your interest for thousands of games. GnR is gorgeous but like some other JJP games, I’m not really sure what the point is. TS4 does seem pretty easy, played only one ball and was over 10M when the arcade kicked us out for a private party, drained on purpose. Not worth the price when so many better and cheaper games are out there. Don’t rule out pre-lcd games, recently picked up a Tron Pro and it is great.

I ask how much everything cost. Heck I can’t remember buying anything where I didn’t ask what it cost. Confused on that on I guess.

Your behavior is reflective of most humans. From my perspective, the notion that "if you have to ask how much something cost you can't afford." is trite BS. It's a quote by someone at JP Morgan that somehow is still part of our culture. Problem is, it's not how most humans behave in practice...especially when purchasing high value items. If you've ever participated in a Pinside FS ad, you know how much people care about what something costs!

Your probably right on staying power,but didn’t DP just release a big code update?Man what a cool theme and an awesome looking game!Its too bad it got so bogged down in the muck that happened

TBL is decent for a few plays here and there, but I don't find myself continually hitting the start button.

After getting to the wizard mode a few times in fourteen plays, it's time to sell....

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/fs-tyo-story-4-le-with-invisi-glass-and-only-14-plays

I don't even know who you are anymore!

You clearly don't like JJP games. You have most new Sterns rated perfect 10s and have JJP's Pirates, TS4, Gnr, and Hobbit all under 6. Just for more context, you rated one of the worst games ever made, Thunderbirds a 7...

What do you get out of the unrelenting negativity you bring to these threads?

As far as the post, it's almost like some people buy games and don't really play them.

They also have a MBr LE listed for sale with less than 80 plays on it... and I'm sure that has been in the collection much longer.

That was exactly my concern about TS4 and why I backed out.
For the price, I need a game with staying power and I just didn't feel like it was going to be there.

Wow. I was asleep at the wheel on the recent code update! Thx

You don’t need to get 15k fun out of a ce pin…it will likely resell for close to $15k after years of enjoyment and it would have cost you a tiny fraction of the $15k…

10mil on ts4 is not great. guy in socal streamed his 500+ million game. The carnival multi ball is setup by factory to play for a long time. You can adjust the settings to eliminate some of the multi ball power ups. Put the machine up to7.5 degrees steep and adjust the flipper strength up 2 on all and the jump ramp strength. 1st time JJP made the standard settings easy.

JJP purposely set the factory settings easy for kids to enjoy. Set the pitch to 7.5 degrees and upper the flipper strength 2 all around. What is your ifpa ranking?

Must have been set up badly, only got to play that one ball, maybe I'd have liked it better if it were dialed in.

Lawlor essentially did a copy/paste on his NGG layout, but in such a way that it really highlighted how far JJP has fallen. It took NGG, removed toys (two wisecracking gophers down to one bland Gabby), simplified the ramp shot for kids (from hole-in-one skill shot WITH golf-cart bash toy to just a big hole in the back you can't miss), and then stuck a big cheap tablet in the upper corner. The graphic design on the machine is gorgeous, and the topper on the CE looks fantastic. It's actually stunning how good the machine looks from all angles, based on the graphics alone. But we were hoping for an actual Toy Story pinball machine based on all the beloved movies, and a playfield that would be Lawlor's magnum opus (since it was his last) - instead of a dumbed-down playfield with a ridiculous price tag.

re-used mechs/concepts does not make a copy/paste layout. They are both fan layouts... and beyond that you'd find just as many differences as you'd find similarities.