(Topic ID: 315473)

Toy Story Pinball - You in or out?

By Vino

1 year ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

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Linked Games

Topic poll

“Toy Story Pinball - In or Out”

  • In 231 votes
    18%
  • Out 970 votes
    77%
  • May-be (please explain) 57 votes
    5%

(1258 votes)

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There are 3,033 posts in this topic. You are on page 54 of 61.
#2651 1 year ago

I wonder if TS4 was intentionally simple to appeal to more casual players and kids. As many avid collectors there are out there like all of us, there must be sooooo many more casual players, newbies, kids and families that have never owned a machine. Just thinking out loud. Could that be the real target?

#2652 1 year ago
Quoted from Pinkitten:

I wonder if TS4 was intentionally simple to appeal to more casual players and kids. As many avid collectors there are out there like all of us, there must be sooooo many more casual players, newbies, kids and families that have never owned a machine. Just thinking out loud. Could that be the real target?

Could definitely be the target. I just think it's foolish to think (many) casual players will have 12-15k to dump on a toy. The other problem is marketing a 12-15k toy to casual players...where? Pinball sales are dominated by operators, pinball nuts and distributors. Beatles was a simple game and the casual Beatles fans never turned out...sales were "meh". I owned Beatles for a few years and liked the 80's vibe, but the game overall was not very successful considering the limited number produced. JJP wants to produce many more than Beatles...

#2653 1 year ago
Quoted from snaroff:

I owned Beatles for a few years and liked the 80's vibe

As a child of the 80s, I believe you meant 60's vibe.

#2654 1 year ago

If JJP puts out another game like TS . I think they will be done in a year or two....

I know I won't be buying unless I see a loaded game .

#2655 1 year ago

C22E409F-4FC6-43D7-8050-8BF04848D249 (resized).jpegC22E409F-4FC6-43D7-8050-8BF04848D249 (resized).jpeg

#2656 1 year ago
Quoted from zaphX:

As a child of the 80s, I believe you meant 60's vibe.

80s gameplay, with 60s styling.

#2657 1 year ago
Quoted from rai:

[quoted image]

We'll see. If I've learned anything, it's not to judge a game until we see gameplay and code.

And ideally, not until playing it myself.

#2658 1 year ago

I heard Bond will simply be a Goldeneye reskin. New code tho. But it was from a completely unreliable source. And I made it up.

#2659 1 year ago
Quoted from zaphX:As a child of the 80s, I believe you meant 60's vibe.

I was referring to gameplay (i.e. Seawitch rework).

Quoted from DakotaMike:

80s gameplay, with 60s styling.

Exactly.

#2660 1 year ago
Quoted from snaroff:

Could definitely be the target. I just think it's foolish to think (many) casual players will have 12-15k to dump on a toy. The other problem is marketing a 12-15k toy to casual players...where? Pinball sales are dominated by operators, pinball nuts and distributors. Beatles was a simple game and the casual Beatles fans never turned out...sales were "meh". I owned Beatles for a few years and liked the 80's vibe, but the game overall was not very successful considering the limited number produced. JJP wants to produce many more than Beatles...

Agreed. Maybe JJP thought they would be reaching a wider audience with a more “approachable” game. It may have the reverse effect.

#2661 1 year ago
Quoted from zaphX:

We'll see. If I've learned anything, it's not to judge a game until we see gameplay and code.
And ideally, not until playing it myself.

I’m going to play it before making any decisions. They’ll make it for years and of course I’d like to see what Keith has up his sleeve.

#2662 1 year ago
Quoted from Pinkitten:

I wonder if TS4 was intentionally simple to appeal to more casual players and kids. As many avid collectors there are out there like all of us, there must be sooooo many more casual players, newbies, kids and families that have never owned a machine. Just thinking out loud. Could that be the real target?

If you watch this:

It does seem like that was a clear goal of Lawlor.

#2663 1 year ago
Quoted from explosiveegg:

If you watch this:
It does seem like that was a clear goal of Lawlor.

Balancing a good experience with newbies with challenge for enthusiasts is tough.

Guns did a pretty good job of this, IMO - even if you're trash, you will see a song, get the concert experience and feel like you did something...but actually completing the goals and modes leaves tons for enthusiasts to work on.

#2664 1 year ago
Quoted from rai:

[quoted image]

Beating a dead horse

#2665 1 year ago

A much better objective review….going just on the pinside concensus, you’d never know Godzilla has less than half as many coils as TS4….

#2666 1 year ago
Quoted from Freakyguy666:

A much better objective review….going just on the pinside concensus, you’d never know Godzilla has less than half as many coils as TS4….

Are coils a measure of fun or value? Sounds silly, but I'll watch anyway, WTH.

#2667 1 year ago
Quoted from snaroff:

Are coils a measure of fun or value?

I could see how you’d be brainwashed into thinking that were the case, based on all the TS4 bashing on pinside…

18
#2668 1 year ago

If TS4 has double the coils of GZ, that's everlasting proof that coil count has nothing to do with fun or design excellence.

-1
#2669 1 year ago
Quoted from m00nmuppet:

If TS4 has double the coils of GZ, that's everlasting proof that coil count has nothing to do with fun or design excellence.

The only ones claiming that they did were the TS4 bashers claiming there was “nothing in it”…even though the facts proved otherwise…that should tell you all you need to know about the disingenuousness of the bashers…

#2670 1 year ago

12k pinball for kids and casuals, lmao great business model

#2671 1 year ago
Quoted from snaroff:

Are coils a measure of fun or value?

That is a good observation. For me it would be which game provides more fun, better value secondary.

I've been thinking of moving a pin and picking up a new one. TS, Godzilla, or James Bond. I'd play them all first and lean towards the one I think is the funnest. Because that has always been a good earner for me.

LTG : )

26
#2672 1 year ago
Quoted from Freakyguy666:

A much better objective review….going just on the pinside concensus, you’d never know Godzilla has less than half as many coils as TS4….

Because it takes cites and applies them poorly.

ToyStory has a lot of coils - but it doesn't have a lot of actual play features. TS4 is complex in that most of those drivers are tied up in elements players don't find exciting

It has 4 pop-bumpers to GZ's 1
It has a knocker to Sterns' fake knocker
It has two coils tied up in Benson posts
It has a lock post and the divertor
two saucers
Plus 7 more coils tied up in general playfield stuff (flippers, trough, slings,etc)

So 18 them are kind of boring...

Then you get into the real 'play features' and you get
a kickback
a scoop
jump ramp
gabby (which takes 2 coils)
drop target (which takes 2 coils)
spinning disc

So you really only get people seeing a spinning disc, jump ramp, gabby, and a controlled drop.. and if you want to highlight the ramp diverter and a physical lock. TS4 didn't bring play elements people weren't already very familiar with.

While TS4 has 18 coils of mechs tied up into boring almost pedestrian stuff.. GZ optimizes to only spending 9 coils on vanilla playfield stuff
3 flippers
1 pop
2 slings
trough+plunger
VUK

Feature wise godzilla delivers a all-time play experience only using
1 saucer
1 bridge coil
2 magnets
2 motors (shield and building)

So Godzilla using only 4 coils and 2 motors packs more experience than TS4's 7 coils and one motor in that same category of fun.

If anything it shows how TS4 spends a lot of BOM on elements that don't resonate with players as necessarily exciting (saucers and more controlled drops) vs the punch of Godzilla's design where one motor serves multiple features and there is more levels and play variation.

Godzilla shows how you can get so much more by being savy and TS4 shows how you can spend a lot and get a lot flatter experience.

Coils can be a indicator of complexity - but an indicator that shouldn't be extrapolated in all directions (see Hobbit too)

#2673 1 year ago

Nice write up flynnibus , thank you !
LTG : )

-15
#2674 1 year ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Because it takes cites and applies them poorly.
ToyStory has a lot of coils - but it doesn't have a lot of actual play features. TS4 is complex in that most of those drivers are tied up in elements players don't find exciting
It has 4 pop-bumpers to GZ's 1
It has a knocker to Sterns' fake knocker
It has two coils tied up in Benson posts
It has a lock post and the divertor
two saucers
Plus 7 more coils tied up in general playfield stuff (flippers, trough, slings,etc)
So 18 them are kind of boring...
Then you get into the real 'play features' and you get
a kickback
a scoop
jump ramp
gabby (which takes 2 coils)
drop target (which takes 2 coils)
spinning disc
So you really only get people seeing a spinning disc, jump ramp, gabby, and a controlled drop.. and if you want to highlight the ramp diverter and a physical lock. TS4 didn't bring play elements people weren't already very familiar with.
While TS4 has 18 coils of mechs tied up into boring almost pedestrian stuff.. GZ optimizes to only spending 9 coils on vanilla playfield stuff
3 flippers
1 pop
2 slings
trough+plunger
VUK
Feature wise godzilla delivers a all-time play experience only using
1 saucer
1 bridge coil
2 magnets
2 motors (shield and building)
So Godzilla using only 4 coils and 2 motors packs more experience than TS4's 7 coils and one motor in that same category of fun.
If anything it shows how TS4 spends a lot of BOM on elements that don't resonate with players as necessarily exciting (saucers and more controlled drops) vs the punch of Godzilla's design where one motor serves multiple features and there is more levels and play variation.
Godzilla shows how you can get so much more by being savy and TS4 shows how you can spend a lot and get a lot flatter experience.
Coils can be a indicator of complexity - but an indicator that shouldn't be extrapolated in all directions (see Hobbit too)

The benson posts are not boring at all! They individually mess with the player in their very own mode—apart from the caboom ramp—and have sound effects to boot! And most people really love the “laser effect” of the ball “shooting around” in the 4 bumpers…it’s one of the best designed pops in history! Clearly your post is biased…unlike these guys…

#2675 1 year ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Because it takes cites and applies them poorly.
ToyStory has a lot of coils - but it doesn't have a lot of actual play features. TS4 is complex in that most of those drivers are tied up in elements players don't find exciting
It has 4 pop-bumpers to GZ's 1
It has a knocker to Sterns' fake knocker
It has two coils tied up in Benson posts
It has a lock post and the divertor
two saucers
Plus 7 more coils tied up in general playfield stuff (flippers, trough, slings,etc)
So 18 them are kind of boring...
Then you get into the real 'play features' and you get
a kickback
a scoop
jump ramp
gabby (which takes 2 coils)
drop target (which takes 2 coils)
spinning disc
So you really only get people seeing a spinning disc, jump ramp, gabby, and a controlled drop.. and if you want to highlight the ramp diverter and a physical lock. TS4 didn't bring play elements people weren't already very familiar with.
While TS4 has 18 coils of mechs tied up into boring almost pedestrian stuff.. GZ optimizes to only spending 9 coils on vanilla playfield stuff
3 flippers
1 pop
2 slings
trough+plunger
VUK
Feature wise godzilla delivers a all-time play experience only using
1 saucer
1 bridge coil
2 magnets
2 motors (shield and building)
So Godzilla using only 4 coils and 2 motors packs more experience than TS4's 7 coils and one motor in that same category of fun.
If anything it shows how TS4 spends a lot of BOM on elements that don't resonate with players as necessarily exciting (saucers and more controlled drops) vs the punch of Godzilla's design where one motor serves multiple features and there is more levels and play variation.
Godzilla shows how you can get so much more by being savy and TS4 shows how you can spend a lot and get a lot flatter experience.
Coils can be a indicator of complexity - but an indicator that shouldn't be extrapolated in all directions (see Hobbit too)

Nice well thought out post Flynnibus!

#2676 1 year ago
Quoted from wcbrandes:

Nice well thought out post Flynnibus!

Damn, that was impressive. Best TS4 post yet.

#2677 1 year ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

It has a knocker to Sterns' fake knocker

Some people like fake knockers, especially after a few beers. I prefer the real deal. More bang for your buck.

#2678 1 year ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

you can spend a lot and get a lot flatter experience.

Exactly!

#2679 1 year ago
Quoted from snaroff:

Are coils a measure of fun or value?

Currency.

-3
#2680 1 year ago
Quoted from zaphX:

It seems like there are different complaints for everyone.
- Some are upset it's not all TS movies.
- Some are upset about the game not having enough mechs.
- Some are upset there's no audio with the video clips (I'll never understand this, but ok).
- Some are upset about the game's lack of difficulty and longevity.
- Everyone is upset about the price.

It's all about the cost. I have a Godzilla and play TS4 many times over Godzilla. In fact of my 4 JJP pins TS 4 is my second favorite after WW. Playing a JJP and playing a Stern is like driving a Cadillac vs a Volkswagen.

#2681 1 year ago
Quoted from AvidPinPlayer:

It's all about the cost. I have a Godzilla and play TS4 many times over Godzilla. In fact of my 4 JJP pins TS 4 is my second favorite after WW. Playing a JJP and playing a Stern is like driving a Cadillac vs a Volkswagen.

What agree with you there I really love my Willy Wonka and when I was on location playing Godzilla and TS4, I loved the shots on Godzilla but I could not enjoy the theme and the cut scenes were just too silly for me. To me TS4 will probably last As a classic pinball machine years to come because the franchise is such a beloved title

#2682 1 year ago
Quoted from AvidPinPlayer:

It's all about the cost. I have a Godzilla and play TS4 many times over Godzilla. In fact of my 4 JJP pins TS 4 is my second favorite after WW. Playing a JJP and playing a Stern is like driving a Cadillac vs a Volkswagen.

Only a true JJP fanboy would sum it up this way. You are wrong!! I have some affluent collector friends who were crying on my shoulder recently about this being their dream theme (same for me) and sitting on the sidelines because the game is so "meh" (I'll spare you the details, since many have come up on this thread). These are guys that can afford ANYTHING they want. Would these same guys pick one up if the price plummets 3k? Possibly, but they've also said it would likely be a game to putz around with or they'd get it for other family members (i.e. not a keeper).

I'm glad you dig it and agree that JJP games are built like a tank (at least DILE and GNRLE were). Unfortunately, their reliability and gameplay are no better than Stern games (for the most part). Frankly, the 400lb. weight kind of sucks for home use. I had 2 movers carry my WH20 and LOTR up 18-steps yesterday with no problem. No way they could do that with a JJP game, which is ~150lbs heavier. MANY of these games are going into homes and 400lbs. is a minus, not a plus.

#2683 1 year ago
Quoted from AvidPinPlayer:

. Playing a JJP and playing a Stern is like driving a Cadillac vs a Volkswagen.

Yes we all know they are much heavier.

#2684 1 year ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Yes we all know they are much heavier.

And big smoooooooooooooooth

1E51ED02-BDAE-4515-83FA-1759D9224AB9 (resized).jpeg1E51ED02-BDAE-4515-83FA-1759D9224AB9 (resized).jpeg
#2685 1 year ago
Quoted from snaroff:

Only a true JJP fanboy would sum it up this way. You are wrong!! I have some affluent collector friends who were crying on my shoulder recently about this being their dream theme (same for me) and sitting on the sidelines because the game is so "meh" (I'll spare you the details, since many have come up on this thread). These are guys that can afford ANYTHING they want. Would these same guys pick one up if the price plummets 3k? Possibly, but they've also said it would likely be a game to putz around with or they'd get it for other family members (i.e. not a keeper).
I'm glad you dig it and agree that JJP games are built like a tank (at least DILE and GNRLE were). Unfortunately, their reliability and gameplay are no better than Stern games (for the most part). Frankly, the 400lb. weight kind of sucks for home use. I had 2 movers carry my WH20 and LOTR up 18-steps yesterday with no problem. No way they could do that with a JJP game, which is ~150lbs heavier. MANY of these games are going into homes and 400lbs. is a minus, not a plus.

The do not weigh 400lbs.

#2686 1 year ago
Quoted from romulusx:

The do not weigh 400lbs.

POTC came close…

#2687 1 year ago
Quoted from romulusx:

The do not weigh 400lbs.

Stand corrected...most are apparently closer to 325lbs., which is still ~100lbs. more than a Stern. Same effect...the extra weight makes them much harder to relocate upstairs.

#2688 1 year ago
Quoted from snaroff:

Stand corrected...most are apparently closer to 325lbs., which is still ~100lbs. more than a Stern. Same effect...the extra weight makes them much harder to relocate upstairs.

Get an Escalara from Zack!
Buy Buy Buy

#2689 1 year ago
Quoted from Freakyguy666:

The only ones claiming that they did were the TS4 bashers claiming there was “nothing in it”…even though the facts proved otherwise…that should tell you all you need to know about the disingenuousness of the bashers…

The game is a turd, we all know it and deep down so to you.

Comparing it to Godzilla is laughable.

-6
#2691 1 year ago

The game is a turd we all know it and deep down so do you.

Totally laughable to even think to compare it to Godzilla lol

#2692 1 year ago
Quoted from Roostking:

The game is a turd we all know it and deep down so do you.
Totally laughable to even think to compare it to Godzilla lol

What did you say?

-3
#2693 1 year ago
Quoted from romulusx:

What did you say?

You heard me! You feel me!

#2694 1 year ago
Quoted from Roostking:

You heard me! You feel me!

Oh I see you said it time and time again now go play that pinball machine

#2695 1 year ago
Quoted from romulusx:

Oh I see you said it time and time again now go play that pinball machine

Yea i was having posting issues lol.

#2696 1 year ago

Soon I’ll have Godzilla LE next to Toy Story 4 CE. No regrets, never wavered and very excited

#2697 1 year ago
Quoted from Roostking:

Yea i was having posting issues lol.

That’s your body trying to resist typing your bs…

#2698 1 year ago
Quoted from Freakyguy666:

That’s your body trying to resist typing your bs…

My logic is stronger than my body!!

#2699 1 year ago
Quoted from romulusx:

Get an Escalara from Zack!
Buy Buy Buy

Doesn't solve the problem. I had a professional pinball mover (and pinball buddy) over with a high-end Escalara type device and after seeing him struggle with my DILE, told him to fuck it...I'll live with it downstairs. They don't deal well with a curvy stained staircase...

I guess my point is the extra weight is unnecessary and not reflective of "quality"...just a PITA.
IMG_1560 (resized).jpegIMG_1560 (resized).jpeg

#2700 1 year ago
Quoted from snaroff:

Doesn't solve the problem. I had a professional pinball mover (and pinball buddy) over with a high-end Escalara type device and after seeing him struggle with my DILE, told him to fuck it...I'll live with it downstairs. They don't deal well with a curvy stained staircase...
I guess my point is the extra weight is unnecessary and not reflective of "quality"...just a PITA.
[quoted image]

JJP’s are built stronger then Stern pins are!That’s not saying they’re more fun or better it’s just stating a fact.I was a cabinet installer and woodworker for many years.

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