Movie from 2007 and can’t find any service showing for free!

I don’t think the code is an issue and depth is overrated. How many people have been to somewhere over the rainbow in woz? I like my game a lot, have had it now maybe 2 months or so and its been getting the most play. The game shines because of how approachable it is, very easy to understand and rewarding to progress. If you are a world class player, this game probably isn’t for you, but if you are an average player, it’s a lot of fun. I don’t want a 25 page rule sheet, which is why I sold my AIQ. People seem to be upset about the game because of the price, which I understand.

The purpose of modes like Somewhere Over the Rainbow in WOZ is for that game of lifetime, Keith Johnson has said that. That's why there's also mini wizard modes in games that are for those great games. There's still approachable rules for novices, depth for those that progress deeper into the game (Battle the Wicked Witch mini wizard mode), and then a far out there mode that may takes months or years to reach (Somewhere Over the Rainbow). It's those types of games that I want in my collection and that will earn my money.

Having a mode like Somewhere over the Rainbow in a ruleset only enhances a games value IMO. Pinball rules are static, once the code is considered complete there's no expanding on the ruleset. The deeper the ruleset the better for me as I keep games in my collection for years and always want something to go after. With WOZ your normal to good players can focus on collecting the 4 gems to start Battle the Wicked Witch. For the advance players there's collecting all of the diamonds to start Somewhere Over the Rainbow. WOZ today wouldn't be as well regarded if it didn't have that diamond collect and Somewhere Over the Rainbow hook in its ruleset. I would also bet that the game wouldn't have sold as well if it hadn't been for it's depth.

Take LOTR for example, I've used this example before but a cousin of mine has 6,000+ plays on his. He's played that game for years, never reached Valinor, but when he did after years of ownership he was blown away that he got to a play a mode he had never seen before. There's a game that also has fairly easy to start main modes, an excellent mini wizard mode for those great games (Destroy the Ring), and then a mode for a game of a lifetime (Valinor). There's no harm in having modes like Valinor in a game when there's approachable rules in front of it.

A great game should be both approachable and deep.

Looking at your collection, the best example of this is EHOH. It is easy to figure out and very approachable, while being very deep with code. There is a lot of new and interesting code to find behind almost every mech in the game. Look at modes like They Came from Space, Phone a Fiend, the 5 Gappa Angry modes, creepo the clown, attic multiball, super hand of fate, directors cut, the three secret room haunts and even selling the house. I don't know about you, but most these modes I see once ever 20 or so games and whenever I get to experience them, they are treats. Having modes like these that you rarely see make it so that during good games, you're likely going to experience something you hadn't experience within the last 50 games. This not only is fun but makes it feel like you're accomplishing something. Plus, if you get bored of the main objective, you can then start trying for other side objectives.

AIG fails to be approachable. It's deep, but not approachable. I've watched hour long tutorial videos on it and I still barely know what is going on.

Yep...DTR is fairly easy achieve, "There and back again" is much tougher (for completing all the modes), and Valinor REALLY tough. I've owned the game since 2004 and still haven't been to Valinor, but get to TBA once in a blue moon. The beauty of LOTR is not only the depth, but the ease of understanding each specific mode. Today's games where "everything is blinking" can be pretty manic

LOV is great. I've barely touched my other games since picking up LOV.

Are Rush LE's really selling below MSRP? I haven't seen any. If you like Borg music pins, it's one of his best (and the expression lighting is stunning and not yet available on the Premium). I paid 11.4k NIB IIRC and couldn't be happier with the purchase...just a great game.

Yes, not by a large margin though. Most are around the $11,099 MSRP.

I agree with it being one of Borg's bests.

https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/140946

You said it well! Lord of the Rings does such an amazing job of letting the player simply enjoy each mode on its own and the mode choreography within it. So many modern pins now have multiple modes running at once, and with the same animation running or flying all over the place. It all ends up coming across as a mess at times.

Well, at the moment is seems that perhaps TS4 CE's could remain around kinda like how Wonka CE's did. Could JJP seriously alter TS4 code such that it can become a bigger hit like Wonka? I doubt it as JJP repeatedly said the game comes with nearly completed code. Injecting a new Wizard mode, multi-modes, etc... does not seem to fit the bill with "nearly completed code".

Given JJP said sales have made ATH earner, I don't think they have an incentive to push major code update.

Well said and agree 100%!!! This is what I look for when buying games for my home setting. Does every game need this? No, but providing this option enables the game to live longer in a home setting.

Many people can still enjoy the game for short and long games.

Remember the big 2.0 update on Wonka was not adding modes, just adjusting difficulty thresholds and balancing points.

Tell that to top players in the world who noticed a difference. Keith Elwin thought he was drunk playing MMr

Marathoned toy story with my 4 year old before playing it for the first time. Interestingly enough she thinks Toy Story 4 is the best one.

I saw videos of the game online that didn't get me too excited but I had a blast playing it and my daughter was enjoying watching me play. It's pretty much a sensory overload with all the colors and the shots are fairly enjoyable. Ball bounces like a pachinko machine off the rubbers at the bottom it seems.

Honestly I barely played it but if I had unlimited cash I would definitely consider it. Obviiusly the reactions from my daughter is the biggest reason. But would need to play it way more than I did.

I've abandoned my boy!

I wonder if it's because Pixar had the audacity to ruin the childhood of a bunch of grown men by making the girl a lead character.

Huh? Who? Bo Peep?

Yea and that red headed woman on Roadshow bosses me around!!!

Maybe, but her favorite character is Gabby Gabby, not bo peep.

Finally got a chance to play TS4. It seems like a fun game and reminds me a lot of Dialed In. I’d love to have a CE but $15k is way too steep. Too bad the price isn’t closer to the GNR $10.5k and $12.5k

Looks like the first delivered CE has officially hit the classifieds. Pictured on a pallet and ready to ship....I wonder how long it will sit at the $16500 asking price.

https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/141521

AMAZING!

I will say, if he gets it...

arrested-development-will-arnett.gif

Hurry up. 10k by Christmas.

Game in hand is a big deal. Only takes one impatient buyer who wants a new toy for the family this weekend.

I'd probably buy a CE at that price.

I 2nd that. I’ll force room to happen. Who needs a formal dining area anyways?

Finally played a TS4 last night.

Likely the game a lot, felt high quality. iPad didn't bother me but I don't love it. 2 ramp shots hit the glass though - kind of unnerving.

My buddy and I left and agree, $12,000 is just too much. If I can pick up a used for $9-10K some day - maybe!

The ramp shot should not be hitting the glass. The operator can adjust the flipper power for the ramp shot. In this case they need to lower it.

That all being said. Pinballs do hit the glass all the time on games from odd bounces. It's unnerving, but ultimately harmless. Some games intentionally make things hit the glass for effect (such as the EHoH gargoyles).

Finally an OP that raises the power. I'll take it!

Now that CE are shipping, wonder how many walked away from their deposits???

I think I'd buy it, play it, sell it for a $2k loss rather than eat the $2k deposit with no fun to show for it. Assuming you can get $13k for a HUO CE, who knows.

May be more than a $2K loss if you have to pay tax and shipping???

I’d probably pull the trigger at $13k - I think it is overpriced at that amount, but i would be tempted

I’d pay 13k for a NIB CE if I could pick it up and avoid shipping cost.

I think the real disconnect with this pin is 10000000% the cost that it's so darn expensive.

CCrLE with topper, side art, shaker, color trim, fancy arch, molded toys $9250 then you have to spend another almost $6K for the TS4 CE that's like 60% more expensive than CCrLE. And the CCrLE arguably has a topper worth $1200-1500 as toppers go, but TS4 CE topper is that worth a grand heck I don't think so.

Look at CCr SE at $8K and TS4 at $12K that's an entire 50% more money for a pin that's arguably stripped down compared to CCr SE.

What the heck? I can almost buy a whole other machine, I can almost buy a Stern pro and Stern premium for $15K.

This is not PotC not a super loaded pin by any means it's DI-lite it's Wonka-lite but it's priced as the best pin of all time. People have eyes, they can see. People have bought Wonka or DI or GnR they know what you get for $9K, 10K, 12K they know they are not seeing that on TS4.

I would pick up an LE in the $9K range at some point. CE's are going to plummet in value once they all hit the market. The only good news for TS owners (as far as value goes) is I don't think JJP is going to make very many. Once they get through the initial orders I wouldn't be surprised that they stop production on LE's, finish the CE build and move onto the next title. My guess is distributors at some point will be forced to discount CE's in order to get off their books.

I think all of this is true. I would pay $9-10 also.

I'm still shocked JJP went so high with pricing. Game is being received well but the cost is a complete buzz kill.

I think $9-11K is fair LE-CE price.

It’s not just the $15k price tag on the CE it’s the fact that they tried to sell 1,000

Even at 500 this game would sit.

The Wonka CEs had to get “closed out”, I bought one years later from the distro that scooped up what was left at JJP.

What did they think would happen? Guess they figured the pinball market had changed that much in 3 yrs. It has but you still have to deliver and you were already at $12,500!

I don’t see how they follow through with producing 1k units that people won’t want at those prices.

I stayed in because I’ve done well with my distro over the years.

Get past the price and I’m sure I’ll have some fun with the game.

Just saw on marketplace someone has a $3500 deposit on a CE.

When I was going to order it was $1000 deposit.

I wouldn’t say it is reasonable… but I like the theme and would definitely be tempted at 10k for nib LE or at $13k CE

You can get $13500 on marketplace now for a CE. If You want one look for someone with $3500 deposit and make offer.

Yeah, I have been thinking about doing just that. I may wait until Stern does their reveal.

I haven’t owned a JJP but am cautious based on the comments about poor quality. The last thing I would want to do is pay a premium for a pin that won’t last that long.