Is there anyone who wanted a CE spot that was turned away?

I'm stick of waiting and want to buy a used LE, if anyone wants the CE hmu.

There're 3 CEs listed for $14k and 1 for $14.5 and distributors still have them in stock on the Pinside market place so if anyone wants it they can easily get one.

How can anyone be turned away when they didn’t sell out?

Ostensibly they did sell out - something like 90 seconds for the 100 JJP-sold units, and 900 to distros.

Now, how many of those distros collected the non-refundable deposits on those 900? Who knows.
Not to mention extra units distros bought personally to resell.

The 100 JJP sold online sold out. Distros did not sell out. They all have them available. Lots of people were on lists without deposits and instantly went NOPE.

My point is if you are valuing Halloween over GnR we question your judgement?

Based on the slots for sale, you're probably right.

I don’t think it’s going to be the hot property that GnR was, but they’ve already made a bank vault of cash.
Move on to the next game.Godfather?Strange choice
I’d rather see Sonic Spinball or The Matrix

My buddy Dougy (Ice), rationalizes all his JJP/DR/JPOP fanatical purchases. Whether they deliver or not, he defends/promotes as if a stock holder or sycophant…Stern be dammed. Lol

You’re right, the so called mislabeled “sell out” is all smoke and mirror lies by JJP. Just as the lies and promotion of GNR before it. Although GNR sold much better at around 2k plus or minus units in total. I know the fantasy that GNR sold many more is purported by JJP ignorant sycophants all over pinside. Prove the numbers, which no one at JJP has ever done nor will they ever let anyone see the real facts or numbers. Do the math of JJPs self reported 40 a week production capability and you’ll quickly see, its impossible to have made more than 2 to 2400 in total of GNR. TS4 will be a fraction of that, since there is zero demand. Those that have made non refundable deposits can’t get rid of them and will face the same fate as all the HWN/UM purchasers. Stuck losing a couple grand plus…

You’re an idiot for lumping JJP in with DR and JPOP.

You are 100% correct in your assessment of wett but be careful his goal is to get you banned.
He is the epitome of troll!

I understand all the negative comments on TS4 because of the price; it is highly priced, but the pin itself is a fun pin, entertaining and a beautiful pin as well. There are plenty of things to do in this pin. I've had it for over a week and have played it every day. It does not bores me, to the contrary, I want to keep playing more and more. There is plenty of excitement with a variety of multi-balls. Some shots are difficult although they may seem easy. The fidelity to the movie theme is right on. The shaker motor is very well integrated. The light show is second to none. The call outs by Tim Allen and Tim Hanks are very useful and funny. The sound of course it is repetitive, but it is the movie sound theme. The Caboon ramp is fun to shoot at and can easily surprise you in a fast moving ball. The ball flow itself is very good with the criticism that the ball time in the 4 pop bumpers is at times extensive, but it serves to help obtain the Buzz multi-ball. Gabby Gabby gets dirty from the hits, but it is easy to clean and it is an enjoyable bash toy. The Skill Shot is not easy, actually is very difficult to achieve. I am not trying to convince anyone that TS4 is a great pin. I'm simply stating my opinion. I bought an LE and do not regret it. I for one changing my collection slowly from other manufacturers to JJP.

Please don't say Tom Hanks; we can't stand hearing the story again!!!

It’s not just price - a lot of people wanted to see more mechanical elements in the game. I passed for this reason and not price. It is a fun game - glad to hear your enjoying it. I myself was looking to add more JJP as I love playing mine. I just can’t without more creativity as I have seen with JJP before.

DI shoots just as well with more magnets/toys for a fraction of the price. If this was priced at $10K/$12K people would still not love it but it would be more palatable.

When did I say that? And I assume you mean monetarily?

This may not be a popular opinion, but I think TS shoots way better and is a lot more fun than DI. The sim shot in DI is really poor, you make it more on luck from a rebound and it’s such a critical shot. The geometry of that shot doesn’t work. There is much more going on in TS than DI.

I have to agree with you that TS4 can be fun. I just question the long term, especially in a small collection like mine.

Jimmy, take a peek at how many Stern games I own. I’ve got a lot of great ones. I sold IM primarily because I spent more time fixing it than playing it. And it didn’t vibe with me.

I am looking to get an AC/DC back though

I’m hardly a JJP “cheerleader”. I hated DI because of the theme.

I’m a huge GNR cheerleader and Wonka is really good too.

I have a larger collection and I’ve been playing it more than any other game over the past month. I just find it to be really fun and I like that it’s easy to know what to shoot. I have a harder time with GnR and get really frustrated when I’m in a song for 5 minutes with no jackpot to show for it.

Wtf are you talking about Jimmy.

I love my Stern pins.

Let’s see, JJP, Spooky, CGC, Stern, AP, PB, yep I like em all!

As for TS4, it looks like fun.

Now why don’t you run along back to the JJP playfield thread or wherever else you are “trolling” these days.

Pretty much true with any game no?

Played my TWDLE again this weekend. My most played game in the past and one of my favorites.

Got to Last Man Standing again. But only Good for a play now here and there versus every day.

Creativity like Dialed In!

Peace troll brother Dougy, as you haven’t appeared to be loving much of anything Stern. Most any pinball game is “fun”, no one is debating that, but at the price/value equation, most everyone questioning most anything JJP.

Your beloved JJP has backed themselves into a major corner. There is no bigger morons on the planet than JJP. They always do a great job shooting themselves in the foot. Now what’s next? By now they know they’ve way over priced their pitiful offerings, so the next machines is in a very tough spot. Maybe they’ll innovate like, doubling cheap LED’s, add double Dogfather cake toppers, increase and triple the multiballs to make the sycophants happy….typical JJP moves.

Yeah JJP overpriced TS4 big time. What I’ve heard is a bit of GNR arrogance got to them.

They did the math and thought hmmmm, if we can sell 5,000 GNRs then we can sell at least that many TS4’s with that license.

And pinball pricing going nuts, we can get away with hiking the price across the board AND raise the quantity of CEs.

Said it plenty of times since the launch. It’s a terrible move on their part.

Now Stern is doing the same thing on a lesser scale.

1,000 LEs at these increased prices is just too many for MOST titles.

Rush, as good as many think it is, are plentiful in LE and will be forever. It’s also going to experience an eventual “loss”.

For people that care about that type of thing aren’t gonna be happy as the wheels get a little wobbly.

As for Stern, I still have, because I love them, TWDLE, BM66LE, GBLE, ASLE, WPT, MUNSTERSLE, JPLE, STHLE, GZLE, EHOHCE, and a BEATLES gold game. And I’ll be buying BOND and JAWS regardless. Is that enough Stern love for you? So quit making shit up!

Now just for you Jimmy, since you are on top of these sort of things and I assume you can do basic MATH, what do you see when you look at my collection of pins?

I buy what I like, have for years, sell what I don’t like most people. But if you want to scoreboard it then there you go buddy! Post yours up so we can see how smart you are.

I wouldn't say arrogance as much as miscalculation.

We all saw the Guns CEs going for 20K on the open market, raising the price is a natural response to that.

I would argue though that Guns blew everyone away.

Agree. Dialed In shoots even better imo and is the more balanced pin. Sim card shot is great as well. No boring 4 bumper action with kick out holes. No boring virtual pinball, DI is not boring at all. DI is just fun.

Upper Playfield on no good gofers is so much fun with the hole in one shot as well... On Ts4 the upper playfield is... Yes... It is there...

GNR still blows me away. Wonka great too for me. So is WOZ at $6500.

Why can’t we get JJP to go back to that pricing. Lol

I know what they tried to do with a couple of big game distros like Betson. Betson said F U.

Had insider tell me they thought TS4 sales would exceed GNR.

A “miscalculation” and/or a bit of “arrogance”?

ALL NIB pinball has reached heights too high, especially in a period of high inflation and a country in a “recession”.

The flippers that drive the FOMO are just about done and that is just beginning to show up.

I don’t really care, I just want to see great games/themes made.

Same. Wonka is approaching 13,000 plays for us and is still a game we work on nightly.
The long term value we got from the last Lawlor/Katz combo was what made me jump into the CE immediately.

I don't care about the theme being TS4. I don't care about the theme at all, no matter which version of Toy Story is represented.
I don't care about clips, and I don't care TOO much about mechs if the code makes up for it (which was the case in Wonka IMO.)
I don't care if the movie scenes are represented on the screen without audio.

In short, the normal Pinside whines are not applicable to me.

I care about fun, deep code, and rewards that keep me reaching over time.

The real problem is, time has let us all know that “gun” as you call it, was only a peter-ring BB gun, lol. Now that most people are waking up, GNR is not blowing anyone away. Plunging 2nd hand prices prove that point. The wake-up on TS4 has happened much quicker, lol.

He doesn't own any games...

That's the weirdest thing I've heard in years....

Wha? The fact they claim DI has an "Upper Playfield" is insulting enough; now NGG has one?

I love reading the conversations of 5 people in one thread. Just went to the local pub…oh wait wrong whale thread. Forgot to mention I don’t fuck around with beer just straight whiskey. Thinking about a build with the help of 4 mini whales. Can’t disclose it just yet.

When Companies made 500 Le's/Ce's people complained they weren't able to get one and bemoaned the scalpers. Now Companies are making more and people are complaining there are too many. Did people forget how angry people got when their GNR CE order was canceled due to overselling or how many people was trying to get a Mando LE? Don't understand what the community wants at this point.

Based on what we’ve seen from Karl, wouldn’t think “deep code” currently applies to TS4…I do like the RED CHROME finish on the CE…

This is one of the very few times JJP did something right, even though they badly messed up on the theme. Also selling and making a nice little profit on WOZ at $6500 was good, even though it shoots so lousy and had failing PC/Node boards coming out the whazoo. Apologists misguide everyone by saying WOZ almost tanked the company. No, it was the stupidity of an owner than knew nothing about fiscal responsibility, that tanked JJP 3 times, till a deep pocket benefactor came along. Every WOZ shot is straight up the middle, with ball lost much of the time, lol.

This sums up my sentiments. Complaining for the sake of complaining rather than appreciating and speaking with their wallets. These designers and engineers are doing some incredible stuff, TS4 included. I’m not a big fan of the theme but am I a major fan of every theme in my collection, no.

This is the basic problem with all JJP layouts, flawed wide-body designs, done by newbie’s like Eric. Exceptions Pat’s designs, even though they have almost nothing on the PF mech wise, except DI. Widebodies are the main issue spoken by the respected quintessential expert in all of pinball design, George Gomez.

“I didn’t know then but in my opinion, wide-bodies are inherently flawed. The kinetics are compromised. Shots outside the standard 20.25“ width are weak shots, given the available stroke on standard flippers. The stroke of a flipper is approx. 50 degrees. You can rotate the entire flipper to help that but then you compromise the shots in the center of the playfield. One constraint is that the flipper is a lever and it accelerates thru its arc of travel as a function of the force applied by the solenoid. The position of the ball on the flipper, combined with its weight and velocity when you engage the solenoid, is what determines the direction of the shot. All of the widebodies I’ve played feel really soft on those outside shots and fairly unsatisfying. The reason the older ones from the 70’s and before feel fine, is because the nature of those old games was slower and the ball was what we now call “floaty”. Neil Falconer who was a software developer at the earliest versions of our company, used to say: “when the company you work at starts talking about making wide bodies, its time to dust off the resume because they are a recipe for disaster”.

Wide-bodies are a major reason besides ownerships poor fiscal choices, that tanked JJP 3 times, not what the games were selling for. $6500 was plenty of money to make a nice profit if nonstop idiot moves had not taken place.

Widebodies are just more pinball; that isn't the issue.

...Eric....yeah I can agree there.

It doesn't matter how you call the area for the Airballs via slam ramp and that thing on ts4.

It's more fun on ngg for sure with that really cool hole-in-shot without a doubt. That does matter. What's cool on ts4? Just have to hit that jump ramp anyhow and it will hit that wide area and that's it. Ah... Well...

I’ve been playing DI a lot lately, my game has the factory hole protector that makes the SIM shot harder, super hard to make as a direct shot and I’m often aiming it off a post hoping to get a lucky bounce. But while that may seem like the game wasn’t designed correctly to me it just makes that time when SIM is lit more action packed. I was having the SIM lost when the ball drained so it was even more frustrating but the point to me is that shot just becomes more exciting when I do hit it. It’s hard like the hyper loop hurry-up on SW.

Some can say the SIM shot is poorly designed maybe it is but it to me that’s just another obstacle to overcome. And making that shot is always a cause for celebration. And it’s not a shared shot like the mode start on DP so it’s only needed for that SIM collection so it makes sense that it’s not an easy shot. It could have been the Big Bang Target instead but I like how that BB target works as it is.

So TS4 is "fun", but not sure with or without more code how long it will last in collections. BUT, the good news is that as pricing increases seemed to be accepted by Stern following JJPs price increases, maybe this price jump and the ensuing collective WTF by this community will slow Stern and others. Here's hoping...

Yes, that's it. The first machines came with a thick metal protector. They changed to Cliffy Protectors later. I think cliffys are well in that game, some prefer mantis oder just mylar at risk of a chip in the playfield. Everyones own choice

For Sim card: yes, it's really hard to hit and punishing. But it's not impossible. If a Sim card is lit, you can take the risk and try to collect it or start a Multiball and collect your Sim cards there. Everyone is excited if you can get Sim cards. But it can be frustrating... Love and hate... I think that's exactly like Lawlor wanted that shot.

But back to topic: What are the rewarding, exciting shots on ts4? What's really cool? The ball lock? The jump ramp? The loop with the little third flipper? The little wheel? The four bumper? The play pinball video mode? The kick out holes? The flow? Could someone explain? Maybe I am missing something?

Ts4 is not bad at all. It's just missing that special, addicting things to me, Pat Lawlor Pins are known for.

I thought the sim shot was supposed to be like the camera shot in TZ, but clearly it’s not. Lawlor games don’t typically have difficult shots. As for why TS is fun, for me it is because the rules are easy to understand, the call outs are very clear on what to hit, the tablet shows you very clearly how many shots are left in a mode and the sounds, lights and video are well integrated. It’s a nice change from games like AIQ and others where there is a 25 page rule sheet and you need a cheat sheet next to you to know what to do. As for satisfying shots, it’s more about the flow of the game, it’s very smooth, which is typical of most lawlor games. Scared stiff and TAf are great games, but do they have satisfying shots? Are they hard? No on both, they are both just well integrated overall and that’s what TS offers.

Ok great game aside, does anyone else get the urge to rip their own ears off at this Toy Story theme song? Here it is in case anybody needs help.

At least the clarinet isn't in maximum overdrive on the original song. I can see why people play other music when playing pinball now after hearing TS4.

It's an award winning Randy Newman composition that fits perfectly with the movie it was written for.

Do I want to hear it while playing pinball? Not really.

Do I even want to hear it outside the scope of seeing the movie? Nope, but "rip their ears off?"...

I prefer Randy's other works:

1 month later and the TS4 I installed at the company office is doing well. Since getting all the kinks worked out, we have only had one stuck ball this month requiring the glass to be moved.

I am still not personally a huge fan of this game, but the casuals in the company office are gravitating towards it and there are around 200 plays on the machine so far.

Is it the greatest most awesome pinball machine to a pinball fanatic? No.

However, it is an easily approachable game that appeals to people that don't know where to find the start button.

I am of the opinion that Stern would be well served by making a pin like this every 3 years or so to have something that appeals to casuals on location. I do not think this machine would last long in a basement lineup though, which is everyone's bread and butter. But without some easily approachable pins it is very hard to grow the hobby.