Since you brought that up… Was DI the only CE that was being sold for less that MSRP? Was there any others?

You gotta love this hobby, machines for all. I have the exact opposite opinion on each. I wish I didn’t though, as the wonky theme is great, just can’t stand how the pin plays.

I never looked at CEs, but SE & LE still sell for under OG sale price.

Got some good time on Toy Story 4 and here are my thoughts...

The plunger is good(not weak) and the skill shot is fun(2nd arrow mark on shooter). Got the skill shot several times and it reminded me of Adams, Tommy, and CSI skill shot configuration. The layout to me felt lackluster. All of the shots started to feel really repetitive and nothing really got me excited. I thought the Canada ramp would be a blast to play and it just felt flat? For some reason I thought the ramp would be really fun like Gophers,etc. but it did nothing for me. Then Gabby popping up randomly-again did nothing for me. Not sure if I just have done it so much with Gophers and Trolls that the magic has worn off for me? The flippers actually felt good and ball control was excellent. Long ball times with multiple multiballs,etc. The lighting does fit the theme well and my wife stated that it was mesmerizing to her and she loved it. I found it annoying and wish they were not projected upwards towards your face.

So what are my thoughts on owning one? Well it is not for me because of theme and I would get bored really quick with this one. It felt repetitive with lack luster shots and I would be chopping wood in no time. Now for a family that plays together this game would be a fantastic addition. I think the entire family would like it, especially children. I also think this game is going to absolutely kill it on location. If I was an operator-I would want a TS4 for my route. People keep saying they would rather have Wonka instead. Wonka may have a better layout and better code but the theme does not hold a candle against Toy Story.

Also got more time on Iron Maiden. Damn I am in love with the layout on the game and I want to say it is Elwin's best design yet. Seriously a dream to play but the music is like nails on a caulk board for me. My wife was like can't we just redo the music on it? I said yes but would seem out of place with everything else and would be a mish mash. If Stern does a retheme of Iron Maiden with a theme I like-it would be an instant buy-make it so Stern!

Agree with TS4 everything you said.

About Maiden, I’m thinking about getting that next. I never listened to them but on the pin I think it’s great upbeat music, great code. I would be nice as a different theme as well, even another Spiderman I wouldn’t say no. However that’s unlikely because it’ll cut the prospective buyers down if a lot already own Maiden.

Ever since I saw Steve's Iron Maiden masterpiece-I have wanted one. I keep telling myself-the music is not so bad and you should be able to tolerate it.

This particular machine that Steve created is an absolute masterpiece(one of the best I have ever seen)-and I want one
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Price aside, TS4 is the least fun-to-play game out of Pat's JJP trio for me. It's just not very exciting to play after a while. Most of the shots are sorta boring.

But if you've played it and like it, then more power to you.

I agree. It’s why playing the pin is the only way. Didn’t fall in love with Pirates. Love Godzilla (and have no connection to the theme). Didn’t really like Iron Maiden (but only flipped a couple times). I like Deadpool so far but the comic book aspect bothers me a bit (not into comics) so not sure if it’s a long term keeper for us. Really liked Hobbit. Really liked Big Lebowski. Flipped Rush a few times and was pleasantly surprised. If I just went solely on pinside rankings, I would have missed out…

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Played a little Toy Story yesterday.

1. Was taken aback that after inserting 4 quarters, I only had 1/2 a credit. But for $5, I could have 4 games! The new super saver! Ugh, I get it, operator needs to make that 13k back somehow.

2. Very smooth and easy shooter. Flippers felt like JJP flippers. Never missed a single kaboom shot. Great feel for novice players.

3. Hate the sound of this machine with an absolute passion. Oppositely, I just picked up a No Good Gofers (similar layout), and the sound / callouts on that machine are just pure fun, and full of character and life. TS4 is just so bland and cluttered sounding at the same time.

4. Theme integration just isn’t good. I loved TS4 the movie, but the whole carnival thing is just boring. I get it, it’s not for me. It’s for children. Also, the fact that it’s the 4th film just makes it feel like a part of the Hollywood advertisement machine, rather than a celebration of the series. It’s gonna feel awfully outdated when the 5th and 6th movies inevitably come along.

5. Couldn’t see the upper left spinner when I played. Blocked by the scoop decorations.

6. Tiki pinball just isn’t good.

I feel like this table is the worst of all worlds:

- make a family friendly game? Great idea!
- price it at 13k? Terrible idea!

TS4 should have been JJP’s answer to Stern’s home pin line - make a pinball machine that is easy for kids and easy for their parents’ wallets. Instead, we have operators charging $2/game to try and recoup their investment.

So after a disappointing time on TS4, I went over a few machines and had an absolute blast on Cactus Canyon. The fact that TS4 is almost twice the price is ludicrous.

Played TS4 at On Tilt for a while yesterday (only $.75!). I found it quite attractive but a bit of a drain monster for me. Felt like a Pat Lawlor game! I do like the theme and the aesthetics, but would never consider buying one because of price; there are just funner, prettier, more appealing games for me at that price. I think it will do well on routes at family amusement centers and I will probably always play a round or two when I see it. It's an interesting choice to make a game so squarely aimed at kids but priced for millionaires. A beautiful, fun machine though.

Yes but you can also turn the music far down and turn the call outs up. Helps put the music in the background and helps a lot.

Tilt in MPLS? I always enjoy their pricing on all the games! And set up, I actually destroyed Mars on the AFM they have so they must have the games set up easy!

Back to TS4, So after playing TS4 (opps what happens when you hit shift and the 4 key LMAO) for my second round I learned more about the game and wanna play it less. I am thinking in the home environment where I can hear the call outs I may enjoy this game more. But for some reason it was not just boring it was like why? I am going to watch some more tutorials so maybe learning the rules can help me. Why does Gabby's face get so dirty? Every one I have seen now she needs a cleaning. And for Newbies wouldn't it be more fun if the code was hey hit Gabby 3 times or 5 times or tell one the objective to smashing a little girl in the face.

I’ve never felt letdown by a JJP game but Toy Story 4 broke that streak. Come on JJP, $12k-$15k+ for a game with a spinning disk, a pop up bash target, and a pop up ramp? What happened? This game doesn’t represent what fans of JJP are used to.

Complacency & greed, perhaps? The market is stupid hot with more and more stupid money being thrown around.

I guess I'll have to continue to enjoy my WOZ & POTC.

I remember Jack saying "this will be our worse machine (WOZ). Every thing from here on out will be better & better". What happened w/ that?

If TS4 is a sign of things to come....I'm out.

...

Yeah. Sigh.

I played ts4 and it is fun. Similar to ngg in a few points. The wheel, the popping figures, the ball lock are more exciting on ngg than ts4. The ramp shot on ts4 is very disappointing imho. The hole-in-one-shot on ngg is so great. On ts4 you just have to hit the ramp... The only one advantage to ts4 compared to ngg is the software/rules. Even if ts4 is not bad, I think ngg is more fun overall.

Anyone else feel like the spinning disc is kind of wasted? It doesn't really do a whole lot, or come into play much.

Not compared to the spinning discs on games like Whirlwind, Tron, or even Beatles.

I agree it's meh.

Nothing about this game is above average except the price.

So my question is this if a CE buyer walks away from their deposit will the distros sell a CE for 13k since they already collect 2k down?

If I was a distro, it’s a non-refundable deposit. So, distro keeps it and resells the game for MSRP.

After all, the distro now has to find another buyer (assuming no waitlist) and assumes the risk to not sell the product.

Is this the thought process of a distro?

Probably flippers will see it’s a loss, will just give up the deposit and not take delivery and JJP will decide if they even need to build all the 1000 units.

Alright I am going to have to pull an AIQ prem on you. That game is similar to TS4 in that it has no major toy. It has a spinning disc, but it raises and balls get pushed along a trough where you can see it thru playfield. It doesn’t have a jump ramp but it does have a cool reverse 360 ramp. I could care less about the Avengers theme. But the game is fun as hell to shoot. If I want to play modes I can shoot the blinking lights. That game cost $9k and I am seriously considering getting one

I didn't think Godzilla was that great either after playing the Basic version, when I played the Premium version recently it really did feel like something special.

Very few Toy Story 4 LE’s listed in owners section. I know obviously pinside doesn’t represent everyone but the numbers listed are crazy low. Currently 69 owners listed and 34 locations.

Guns and roses LE: 908 (+75 se’s) owners listed and 80 (+ 42 se’s) locations.

I know GNR has been available longer but initial launch sales when FOMO is at the highest generally will be the largest amount of sales. Toy Story 4 LE seems to be a major sales flop. Also a handful of CE’s are being sold now with little to no markup in the Pinside Market.

I didn't list mine in the owners section until the delivery was scheduled a few days ago. I should have it on Monday. Guns and Roses has been produced for more than a few weeks.

I was at my local pinball place AYCE Gogi last night for a few hours and from my brief observations I'll say this much. Between it's very colorful artwork and bright light show making it easy to spot across the room, kids gravitating to it the minute they walked into the room, it's comparatively easy play allowing novices decent ball times and it being in use the entire time I was there makes it seem to me like this will be a very good earner on location. It is a pricey machine however it seems like it will still be great as a value add / talking point / attraction for locations that offer other services like food, etc. This is speculation on my part, but it has the feel of a game taht can bring new novice players into pinball rather then kick their ass and scare them away like other games do.

I did play it as well and liked it, not enough to buy one but I'll definitely toss quarters into it every time I'm there.

The awesome part is they only charge .75 cents a game. I hate odd numbers, but not bad to pay one quarter more than the rest to play a $12,000 game.

I almost crapped myself when I thought you were comparing avengers to toy story for a moment. You're getting a hell of a lot more game for way less money with avengers premium.

I would take Toy Story 4 over Avengers-so there is that

Different strokes for different folks

One thing is for sure. This will not end up like POTC

I think POTC is not a good comparison. POTC was about supply and demand and when they cut off production-supply shrunk. I love the franchise but the game did nothing for me and I prefer the Stern version

Wow.. So soon? Typically you would CE's selling later down the road with this low amount of plays. Huh....

I spent $30 in quarters to know this game is not for me. Was there that many Sight unseen buyers for a $12K common pinball (LE version)?

Apparently there were. The FOMO is real for a lot of people.

Also, I had a good Army buddy who's last name was Zermeno, I wonder if he was any relation? He was a really good dude. Still miss him.

It's crazy, I can see someone getting bored with with it after 50 games, that's why I like to play first. Best to sell before there is a flood of HUO TS4 to compete against.

I hope Pat Lawlor does not retire and makes another game. It's not the best way to end his career. I did watch toy story 4 and looking at what he had to work with, I think he did a great job with the assets. Definitely needs more of the right toys and JJP pushed the price limits to the max,but it's a great game at the end of the day.My guess is they will turn out the CEs and make about 1200 les and release the next title sooner than they expected. If it's another Eric Meunier game then it's a win for us.

I guess FOMO was strong for some spite the initial developments of the game.
Huh… not too many Zermeno’s living on the state side. Majority of my family live in Mexico so it’s a surprise when I find another individual with my last name.. however, my old man did say our last name is common in Mexico (not like Sanchez).

I am not aware of any relatives that served in USA military.

Well damn, Bayes theorem, here on Pinside.

Mandatory relevant thread content: I'm making a trip to Rio Rancho tomorrow, and will stop in on the one TS4 in the Albuquerque area that I know of.

Looking a little closer, I see that they have 12 pins currently listed for sale and 298 archived sales. Currently they have 2 Toy Story listed, Rush, 2 Cactus Canyon, Guns n' Roses, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Theater of Magic, Twilight Zone, Jurassic Park, Elvira and Deadpool. They have sold 11 games so far this year and 59 overall. Looks like they go through a lot of games.......

Shhhh?

Toy Story 4 is that boring it's already died off people's radar. Nobody even wants to talk about it anymore lol

This week I played American Pinball’s: Oktoberfest, Hot Wheels and Valhalla. All were enjoyable but I strongly disliked flippers and overall feeling of shooting OKT. Hot Wheels is very exciting to shoot, easy to figure out and code fits it like a glove, but I dislike the theme. Valhalla was fun to shoot and had great callouts, but it is without a main toy or interesting technology. A day later and I can remember having a good time playing HW but not the other two. I will play HW whenever I can.

I also played JJP’s GNR and TS4. GNR was spectacular on all levels, so no additional comments are necessary. TS4 is well lit but gameplay is rather bland. Collected 4 to 5 scenes but couldn’t start carrousel. A few modes are not intuitive unless you’ve had someone explain it first. A day later and I can’t think of a single memory on TS4. In contrast I had many moments to cheer or curse GNR. Rules need to be explained to first timers on GNR but once you know how to lock balls, collect band members and to start and select a song - you have what your need. disclaimer I own GNR.

I also played Stern’s: SW, AIQ, DP, Mando, GZ & Rush. All were good but I really enjoyed playing DP & GZ. Next day I remember all about DP and GZ and disclaimer I own both.

Finally hit up Spooky and played Halloween. Enjoyed playing through modes and three levels of achievement. Did not start House mode to kill Jason. Next day I remember many fun times on Halloween. I am not planning to buy Halloween but will play it whenever I can.

To answer question raised in title, I am out on TS4. I rolled my deposit over to JJP’s next game (all faith in Erin M, even though he hasn’t made my Ozzy pin yet).

That’s too bad on TS, I actually like the game and the modes a lot. They are important to complete as they give you benefits in carnival mb. I’ve been playing my game at home every night, just a couple games, but it’s been a lot of fun. Skill shot is tough, but has significant benefits if you hit it. The call outs are very helpful, more than wonka, hobbit and GnR, which I own and find very difficult to know what to hit and build jackpots. Of all the jjp games, Ts is the easiest to understand yet it’s not that easy to score.

This might be the lesson flippers need on the CE's.

I think when they start to ship and they realize they have $2500 deposit in them will be a cluster F***.

I had one on order day one. That afternoon showed it to My 12 YO Granddaughter thinking She'd love it.

She told Me She had watched TS 1,2 and lost interest after 2. Cancelled same day.

Toy Story 4 pinball? What's that?

double post