I don’t think any dealership in Europe is sold out of CE’s. Unlike GnR which was sold out day one all over Europe.

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12k outlay - not 12k spend because of residual value.

And the game in my example is being played by more than just enthusiasts.

The game’s flippers play fine for this playfield. No complaints here yet with feel or lack of power. Only shots that will fall short are the two long ramps if a shot is dirty. The right ramp shot is the full orbit across the top before it turns back to the player

My only point was if the cash didn't matter to you then the game should be fun. Nothing worse than getting on a list for an un-released game, having it delivered and realizing that you hate the gameplay. Personally the issues mentioned and the price puts me out. But honestly, I was never IN to begin with because wasn't currently in the market for a new machine anyway. It's really easy to say you're OUT when you don't even have the cash or arent in the market. It's like someone driving a salvaged title Ford Escort laughing at your new car.

I did have the ball hang up in a couple different places as well like others mentioned. Not just one place but at least 2, and I had to use 2 tilt warnings to get the ball loose. And paying a dollar or more per play...that sucks...that needs to be addressed for sure.

These are all important points you make. It would be nice to add to these kind of polls “I was in before release but now out” and I suppose “I was out before release but now in”. Two years ago I had named this as my next purchase for my arcade. And at predominant prices of the time I would have purchased it. I have no hate for JJP and am going to instead likely go get a Wonka when one shows up local. Similarly, having just bought Mando, I was out on Godzilla. Wasn’t a theme I was really all that interested in either. And then the gameplay and commentary showed up and I was in.

What should concern JJP and others is not how many were in and out, probably a lot of games have that 20/80 split. What they want to know is marginally how many are out that were in now that they jacked the prices and does that make up for the extra cash from each sale. If they sell out the run it’s a good move (for now). If the volume ends up significantly below say GNR or Wonka, then it’s not a very good move at all.

I’m gonna make a (likely wrong in full disclosure since I have no particular insight into much) prediction here: Pinflation is gonna take a breather. And I don’t say this just on some philosophical level. Looking at the market just anecdotally there are more pins that seem reasonably priced. Now maybe that is just me adjusting to a new norm and saying -huh that seems like a decent deal. But I don’t think so. I think people are reacting in a way that says “I probably can’t get as much as I could 6 months ago with what I see going on financially everywhere”. As I said probably wrong, but time will tell.

I was definitely in on a CE, and am now definitely out. Haven’t played it but have owned enough games to know this is not for me. Won’t bother chasing a used CE or LE either.

All good. Hope everyone who is getting one loves it.

Of course, but why outlay $12k on this when a Godzilla Pro for significantly less will not only earn as well, but also give better resale? Resale on a game like TS4, that is divisive and readily available NIB, would have to be relatively poor compared to a popular and hard to get title.

Other than POTC and WOZ, I don’t believe JJP is particularly known for holding high resale value. Hobbits price dumped, so did Dialed In, even GNR looks affected here. That’s probably anecdotal on my part. We know there have been some turkeys from Stern that struggled to get back the dollars invested. I’m a little worried that Spooky might be following suit given what we’ve seen happen with Ultraman/Halloween.

Gonna quote myself here. A lot of people say if you don’t Jack the price and flippers are selling for more then you are leaving meat on the bone. I think that’s a wrong way of looking at it. As much as “flipper” is a dirty word, creating FOMO can be good business for your product. You want your distributors too to make a decent buck to promote your product to their own financial reward. When other people profit that helps promote what you make. These threads do not help out JJP or even Sterns cause. Now Stern has largely buffeted the bad publicity from price increases and perhaps JJP will weather it as well. Limited market/ unique product helps in that regard. But every once in a while threads like these ate the sign that years later gets looked back upon in hindsight as “the beginning of the end”. That probably going too far here. Let’s just say as a company it’s a very tricky business to just keep increasing your prices and not necessarily providing a superior product in the process.

Can you imagine how great the acceptance would be if it were a $7-8K pin?

If it were a $4-5K pin I think the acceptance wouldn't even be measurable!

They did.

Same old shit

Played it tonight for the first time and still a strong pass for a home purchase even though I had fun playing it. The issue is simply a lack of mechs, 3D molds and code depth to justify a home purchase IMO. My wife was also dissappointed and said she enjoyed the Mandolorian pro and especially the Cactus Canyon remake that were there far more.

Also, I would say there’s a lack of shots on this game with that being 6 that pass through or drop into an area. Sure there’s a right ramp but it replaces an orbit. Also that area with the 4 pop bumpers…my goodness does the ball go back into the Buzz saucer far too often.

In regards to the 10” LCD just wow. It’s more of a disappointment in person. What a waste of space that should have gone to a mech and odd angle that it is placed at. The Tiki Party video mode played terribly with poor latency.

Overall my wife and I enjoy everything about our Willy Wonka LE far more then anything on Toy Story 4.

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You hit the nail in the hammer for me. I have the exact same feeling my 2nd go around. Played about 2 hours overall at the Korean bbq place in West Hills, ca.

The iPad was Wow.. agree it’s much larger than in person. The photo does no justice how big that thing is. Seriously, you gotta see this iPad in person to understand its size.

I did have a lot of fun playing the game and I was able to progress 1/2 through the modes in my time playing. The Kaboom shot is a little booger.

Many times I was slow seeing the ramp and was too late or I keep hitting the damn post. I’m sure with time it will get easier…

Or, maybe I should stop drinking the Mules. Haha

The slings were Bally style (aka slow), which is common JJP theme… I actually had a few ball sticks where I had to nudge it to get it out.

Here is a photo of Gabby… she needs a washing.

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Showing the size of that iPad relation to my sunglasses and mule. Still the photo cannot due it justice.

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Here is a photo near the slings… look closely at the post under it… notice something different?? They put clear washers underneath. Guess that is to prevent the pooling?

Not every post have them… seems just the large ones.

You might have to zoom into the photo to see it.

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Still waiting on my kid's dream theme, a Disney Princesses Pin.

Overall, I would play this on site in a location. I’m very happy I was able to give my CE spot to someone else wanting the game.

I swapped my CE order and bought NIB Willy Wonka LE as I also liked that game and knew it’s code would last me in a home setting.

TS4 light show was nice, but personally the light show is not a reason I would drop $$$ on a game. I can care less for it.

Toy Story was surrounded by these games. I can say that I really enjoyed many Stern Pros over TS4… like Godzilla and JP.

Even if JJP swapped out the iPad for a mini-pinball playfield, still would not buy the game.

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Try playing one on route with the iPad thing not working.. looked like a giant chalkboard.. lol

I played it this weekend. Put two games on it and felt like I saw everything I needed to see by the second game. Very little desire to continue playing.

Also, did anyone have this ball stuck problem? Left ramp plastic stopper (forgot the actual name) to temporarily stop the ball.

When it was time for the plastic piece to drop that allows the ball to continue to travel… it fails to sit flush.

Thus, causing a repeated ball stuck. Just annoyance.

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Then the up post needs adjusted. This is a simple setup issue.

Can be binding on the ramp - ours did this out of the box. 30sec fix

Get a TS4. Swap out the cake toppers with Snow White, Ariel, Cinderella and others. Done. $12k + $2.99.

If you purchased this pin to have fun at home ,Bravo ! If you purchased this pin to route it ,Bravo ! If you purchased this pin to flip it a short time and swing your $ elsewhere ……..Houston We have a problem GnR LEs are going for 9k what do you think was going to happen ? I’m not trying to be a dick but WTF were they thinking with the pricing of this pin ?

Greedy

Same thing when Jack said customers fault.

Do you think this problem is caused by the customer?

Also do you route any EM’s, I was at IO bar in Madison and their EM machine was in constant play, while TS4 sat idle, whats some advice to get more plays or heavy action on a new game? Thanks

Last visit the due to play field angles on most games set almost to the top line on bubble level.

Seems like most people still have fun playing the game without tons of mechs and it may have a good layout

Now are you willing to overlook overpriced price tag, annoying giant ipad, upside down rainbow lights, Gabby getting a brown nose(such a brown noser), and all the other faults with this title-this may be the game for you -hurry supplies are limited!

Gabby is getting bashed up good really quick and honestly it does not look good. When I first saw the picture with brown nose I thought maybe they went overboard with the freckles-no just a 'brown noser'

I’m definitely out. $12,000 is way too much money for a pinball machine for an operator. I was looking forward to getting a standard to put on location, but can’t justify a purchase now. I got a GNR standard for 6k and it’s doing great on location- wish it was around $7500 for a toy story standard model.

I really enjoy JJP games, I’ve owned 4 - but with new prices, I’m priced out

Gabby's face looks like ass

I would have to get Silver Jets and have a magic eraser nearby to keep her face from turning black

I can see a green troll or brown gopher but a light skinned girl-looks like ass and would bother me personally

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This story is similar to mine , though I was priced out immediately. My 7 year old heard Toy Story and reacted with "I'm too old for that now." He wanted to see it anyway and after seeing it said "that's not Toy Story" because he associates Toy Story with the first 2 movies. We actually love Toy Story 4 and have seen it many times. That said, once my kids declared the theme a miss, I knew we would pass, even if I could justify the high price, which I couldn't even do sight unseen.

I will have to note when I was on site playing games, every time I see a parent bring their child to the pinball machines.. guess which game they gravitate to??

Yup, Toy Story. So, it has eye candy appeal for its familiarity and child friendly theme.

Big plus to JJP for this. I saw this over and over while I was there.

Or better yet, skip the pin and just buy the toys.

Played TS4 today, it’s a fun pin, I didn’t experience any ball hang ups. The slings are soft for sure and get stuck in that volley phase and will work it’s way to the out-lanes. Pat has mentioned danger on pins when the ball goes East/west so maybe that’s by design. Was not impressed with the gabby bash, didn’t seem to register unless it was a solid square hit.

I believe this pin will do great on route if it holds up, but the ROI will be a long road with the initial cost and general lack of fevered desire to own one. I think my kiddos and non pinball people will enjoy it, it’s a good introduction pin to get people playing.

With all that said, I’m of the opinion this pin has done what it was designed to do. My biggest complaint like most is the price tag. I don’t see a lot of people going out to buy it. I don’t see operators justifying buying one unless they have the extra time (for a ROI) and money to invest in it and they already have the other titles they desired purchased.

I like it and walked away more pleased than expected. I was expecting a big let down with all the negative talk and reviews of it.

Meh

Well I always like the price pumpers before games come out. They constantly encourage manufacturers to do this bull shit. They should definitely charge an increase I think the msrp should be 15k le and 20k ce, i mean last time the charged 7k for gnr so it has to be more (said the dumbass collectors whining about the prices). And yes the real msrp on this game should be 6k and 10k. But hey the next game that comes out should beat the ts4 prices right dip shits

It’s a little ironic that the one game most here won’t mind playing on location but won’t necessarily add to their collection , is the game most operators won’t add to their locations due to a low ROI

Not at all. It just shows that many think the price is out of line with the perceived value of ownership.

If I had the $12K, there are other games I'd consider.

LTG : )

Played about 10 games of TS4 Saturday.

I’m in the “TS4 isn’t Toy Story” camp, as I’ve detailed previously in this thread. I passed on two CE's based on the theme alone. But I still looked forward to playing it and went into the game with an open mind. In fact, I played it less than 24 hours after the game was set up at a local barcade.

The game is fun to play/shoot. I’m not a great player, but was able to enjoy the game and get pretty deep once. Though some count this as a negative, I see it as a positive.

It also looks very sharp. Though I dislike the movie, the presentation is solid. And the Tim Allen call-outs are a HUGE positive for me.

Like most everybody else, I'm confounded by the price. There's just not $12,000 of value there, let alone $15k.

Most importantly for me, it doesn’t feel like a Toy Story world under glass. If it did, I could justify the price. But it feels like a carnival, not Toy Story.

Still, I could see buying one at a lower price. I doubt used LE's fall enough for me to consider it, but you never know.

I enjoyed playing as many games on the one in the VIP room. Seemed to always have people waiting along with those in the vendor area. Told Jack I thought it was a good pinball machine. Enjoyed playing Guns & Roses also, that was fun!

Well get ready for JJP’s Little Mermaid 2: Ariel’s Beginning!

Is there a pre-order list?

Looking at the owners thread. 99% seems to be out.
Has there ever been an owners thread for a new game on pinside beeing more silent?
Will anybody talk about this game in three weeks?

I find it a bit sad after such anticipation.
Guess it´s a combination of things.

Hard times coming.
Way way overpriced.
Lack of imagination and new fun stuff in the game.
Summer isnt optimal for pinball release.
Toy story 4 is clearly the weakest of the four.

Yup. What it comes down to is if you are going to charge $12k - $15k for a pinball machine of all things then at least make it feel like a $12k - $15k pin with mechanical features, custom 3D molds, and code depth. For many TS4 falls short in those categories.

Just came back from holidays to check whats going on here

I think the sentiment in this thread is not representative for the buyers group. The CE is sold out everywhere in europe, although also I did not buy one and am not looking for one, out of interest I asked around a bit.

You see a few posts up the screenshot from Freddy pinball paradise ‘not available’ you can click on price on request but you will probably get a price with additional aftermarket markup (thats why no price is mentioned on the site)
I saw some adds for the CE’s selling at 22K euro here in NL.
So the demand is crazy for even hogher prices here!

So of summer is a bad time to release a pinball, it would’ve been more crazy in the winter. I think the 3 mins for selling 1000 CE’s wont be beat any time soon.

You’re wrong it says ‘not available’ (nicht verfügbar) the buy option for the CE. it’s sold out. You csn only buy if you pay more than MRSP.

There are just over 100 combined TS4 listed in people collections. Not sure if they just aren’t out in big numbers delivered yet or if it’s just not for us type of sales where they are selling but not to pinball people who are on Pinside.

It does look anemic at this point and the fact that the owners thread is fairly quie tells you something, at least to me it says Pinside is not overly pumped about this title.