My kids eat what my wife puts on the table or they don’t eat.

Those guys aren’t rocket scientists…and yet they keep doing it. I wonder why?
And don’t they get to depreciate everything over time and probably write shit off too? Then sell it for what they paid!
Again, maybe it’s not the way to get rich, but there must be advantages, or no one would do it.

Hmm so have your considered that most of us do this because we have a passion for the hobby that transcends getting rich or doing much better than breaking even ? Capitalism isn’t everything ya know.

And I don’t know about you but if I capital depreciate a machine to zero and then later sell it, that’s called a capital gain on that revenue and the government expects me to pay taxes on that gain. There is no free lunch here despite what one might otherwise imagine.

What I and others are clearly saying is that if you jack up the price of the machine greater than 2X in the space of 4 years, and there is not similarly a corresponding greater than 2X increase in revenue then you are going to have a very hard time recouping your additional expenses here. I don’t think any of my customers would tolerate a 200% increase in the cost of admission. Adding on top of that, and returning to 4 years ago, I don’t seem to recall many threads from operators talking about how they were making bank in those “good ol days.” This is what we refer to as pricing operators (not all but clearly many) out of the market.

Really great post pookycade

Question: for the fixed price free play locations, would a machine like this help be an attraction to get more feet through the door playing other machines?

I agree, JJP seems to have abandoned the operators. This game needed a standard edition south of 10k…they didn’t make one sadly. Hopefully JJP will make one for their next title and hopefully that will be before the end of next year.

While my arcade is not a fixed price free play location.

Back in the day of the video game fad and later early 1990's resurgence. I always had a large video game attraction piece. It brought in people.

My experience with pinball is one game has never had the same attraction effect that a video game had. After a day or two the attraction is over. While a video game was good for a year or more.

LTG : )

I’m not smart enough to answer that question in general. I might expect it would help a pin centric place like PPM or Asheville to have the latest and greatest even on coin play. Obviously PHOF is gonna have everything but it’s all coin play for them. For us, it’s just IMHO not that big a draw. For sure we can get some to drive from out of town to come play the latest and greatest. We had an amazing turnout from all over the state for a memorial/charity pin tournament a couple of months back. That said, and no offense is intended to the pinaholics like myself that come to my arcade, pin players aren’t what generates the majority of the revenue for us. They are an important part for sure, but not the major part. I’m gonna say pin draw is 20% of the audience. Kids bday or private parties in general is 35%. General public just coming to the arcade for whatever is in it is the other 45%. That’s the reason 2/3 of the collection is not pins. If we were in DC or somewhere big, a pin only place would have that kinda draw with every new pin under the sun creating a splash. But we aren’t, we are Charlottesville population 47000. So for us no. But for many pin centric barcades, especially in larger cities, I can see what always having the latest and greatest is a huge magnet to their audience.

They need it too. If interest drops and alcohol sales drop. Pinball alone won't support the barcade operation.

LTG : )

Alcohol sales will do better in a recession Lloyd! Or just as good.

Plus, where else can you get such cheap entertainment.

I had no money while going to law school in the early 90’s but I’ll never forget the fun I had playing Funhouse at the local bowling alley. Went there a lot for cheap fun

Man, this is one of the better location games I’ve ever played. Sure the shots are easy, but that’s what I want on location. For the hard ass games those are the ones I wanna bring home. But when I’m out on location this is going to take my money

While this is a popular and common trope (people drink when they are happy and even more when they are sad) it is not true.

Overall "drinkers" decline during a recession and "binge drinking" increases. Beer sales fall, liquor sales climb. Home consumption rises, on premise consumption falls. In 2008 on premise volume fell 2.2% and off-premise climbed 2.9%. Total alcohol sales didn't reach 2007 numbers until 2012. That said, the decline in alcohol sales from 2008-2012 pales in comparison to the decline in other economic sectors.

While consumption might be "recession proof" for a brewer or distillery, anyone operating under dramshop license understands that this isn't good.

Yep, cheap forms of entertainment generally thrive during a recession. Things like book sales, video games, movies and of course alcohol.

Also, a younger customer base will not feel the same pinch and need to cut on their spending. Demographics like college kids are not so worried about making their car payment or mortgage as much as they are going out and having a good time with friends.

Large like you got an R-360 ?

If Loyd could afford a R360, let alone keep one running, I would very much like to submit my application to appear in his will.

Net net. Companies like STZ are Great Recession hedges.

Dram shop has been around since the 80’s and that liability doesn’t change

If more people drink offsite, then less liability for operators because sales are shifting

We aren’t going into a “recession” anytime soon.

As for the last one which lasted all of 33 days in 2020, it didn’t matter much

Actually, Dram is a unit of measure for alcohol dating back to the 18th century. "Dram Shops" were any British establishment selling alcohol. "Dram Shops" have been around in the United States, well... since before we were the United States.

So, while Dram Shop liability may be a more recent thing, that wasn't what I was referring to.

Circling back to your reply to LTG: While constellation might be a good place to park your money during a recession, it's little consolation to a dram shop location where your business is predicated on sales that shift away to off premise consumption during a recession.

By it's very nature "more people drinking offsite" is bad for business. And going back to your comment on actual dram shop liability, less total drinkers, "pre-drinking" and more "binge drinking" is also bad for business liability.

There's no way to know if you are in a recession until you've already been in a recession for two straight quarters.

It’s a minuscule difference. And Dram shop laws didn’t exist, here in Texas, until 1986

And Illinois? A social host law went into effect in 2013

And we aren’t going into a 2008-09 type recession.

In Texas? The Covid effect was short lived and minimal

I’d start a barcade today if one was thinking about it if it’s their passion

Gotta have the liquor to go with the pins.

Again, I was not referring to liquor liability laws (Illinois Dram Shop Act establishing liability dates back to the 1870's btw, Social Host liability relates to hosting a party in your house or similar circumstances not covered by a liquor license). My usage of "Dram Shop" was strictly to reference places with on-premise liquor licenses.

At this point, I'm just waiting for COGS to come back in to some semblance of order. Additionally, not having 10% of your order not show up on the truck because it's not available would be a boost too.

Couldn't speak to the "Covid effect" in Texas but the effect here (across multiple industries) with regard to labor is still present and quite pronounced.

Texas does have that dope ass TABS reporting system though. Any type of research on doing a pro-forma for a liquor license in Texas is considerably easier than any other state.
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Not that one.

Sega Hang On, Out Run, Afterburner, Thunder Blade, Virtua Racer, 3 monitor Ferrari. Games like that, the big version or ride on type.

A few of them I had to take a couple windows out to get them in here.

LTG : )

I know, I know, comparing aftermarket prices is “irrelevant” for some people who prefer to stick their heads in the sand and pretend they aren’t “real transactions”….news flash: they ARE real sales and a better indication of fair market value than a set price from the manufacturer….that said, Godzilla LE (limited to only 1,000 units) is selling for the same price as TS4 CE (also limited to only 1,000 units) yet the BOM on TS4 CE is definitely higher than GZ LE….so if BOM is all that matters, TS4 CE has actually been UNDERPRICED…..unless…there is more to “value” than BOM….and is actually subjective….nah, that couldn’t be it…

Supply chain issues will get better 2nd half

No doubt Texas is a great place to do business and the TABC at the direction of the Governor, helped to ease Covid issues.

Drive thru alcohol was implemented early on to help establishments survive.

Isn’t it all about “location, location, location”?

What your wife puts on the table?

Is Eisenhower president?

It's the 21st century, my dude. Take your ass to the kitchen and make your kids some food yourself sometimes.

Location helps. Its really COGS COGS COGS

Yeah as of now pinside only has 19 places that you can play this thing. More will trickle out to locations eventually, but I doubt it'll be as widely available as GnR.

Bahahaha, it’s coming and soon, just wait and it’s going to be bad.

When everyone & their grandmother is predicting something (recession or otherwise) the odds of it actually occurring drop…”bigly”…

Seriously.

You get the feeling some people
Around here are praying for a recession. Bizarre.

Unemployment is still below 4%, we just a had a nearly 400,000+ new jobs report last month, sure the stock market has tanked a bit but this past week has put the DOW back over 30k. If there is a recession coming it’s going to be mild and to be honest after 10 years of economic growth seems normal. All of this talk of a severe recession is extremely overblown IMO.

A recession doesn’t mean everyone is on line to get soup and handouts. It could mean a few percent more unemployed. Sad as that might be that doesn’t mean you are unemployed or even impacted by the recession. I remember during the Great Recession, everything was very dire but we were at Disney World and it was as packed as ever.

100% - giving your kids separate choices for dinner every night just entices them to be come more picky.
Absurd how much control parents have given kids over their adult lives.

Our problem was the quarantine and pandemic. We all got burnt out on the basics like lasagna, meatloaf, taco soup,etc. Now I feel I need to diversify the menu to keep everyone interested. Last night I made a tasty meal with tikka masala chicken that I had grilled with skewers accompanied by saffron rice with roasted brussels sprouts, squash and diced onions. The kids came down and all of the sudden they said they were not hungry. OK I said, you are excused but you are not eating anything else the rest of the night. Hours later they are microwaving the dinner to eat. I remember my parents making me sit at the dinner table until I would give in and eat-I am not that cruel to my kids but am able to get the same results.

Are we hoping for a recession? Well a correction is needed-so I guess so. People think a recession is like doomsday-but in reality in today's world it is just a marginal temporary correction. Is it a depression or recession? and will it ever be a depression-no. Allocate your investments to a conservative fund for the next few months during dip and then get back in. Wall street has too many people's livelihood involved and investors will always be there to fill the gap with highs and lows. Will this correction do much? Time will tell but with unemployment at record levels and business continuing the struggle to find workers-it is unlikely. I am not worried at all about this 'recession coming'. I am more concerned on who will be making BTTF pinball and will it be epic(real world problems).

True. Let's not let our kids become individuals with their own personal likes and dislikes.

I do find it humorous when I am out at a restaurant with my children and they want to order 'Mac and Cheese'. I say sorry kiddos-but we have mac and cheese at home-so if you want mac and cheese as the main entrée at restaurant-no dice.

If I left it up to my kids it would be pizza, mac and cheese, and ruebens(my son loves ruebens)

Trying to expand their palate to appreciate the good things in life is interesting. When they looked at the tikka masala last night they instantly got turned off and would not eat. Hours later they are forced to microwave and give it a try-mmm not so bad? Slowly but surly they will become foodies like me

Agree, but lets not forget that Grandma/Grandpa can also influence this habit as well. My kids are staying with my parents during the summer to spend some quality time while the Wife and I acclimate with Baby #3 we just had.

I facetime my family the other day to check on the kids and I heard my oldest say she does not want to eat X, but rather have Y.

And.... my mom caved in. I'm sure it will be fun for me to break the habit when they return to my home.

I got lucky with our three kids and their food likes. Their favorite meals are Thai, Indian, and hot wings. They all love spicy food…even the 5 year old. I am very grateful.

You can nurture you children to "become individuals with their own personal likes and dislike" without catering to their every desire and making them think they are entitled to have Mom make them special dinners becuase they don't want what she prepared for the family. IF you want, you can also raise your kids to think they are entitled to get what they want all the time.

Great thing about having kids, you can raise them however you would like .... but like all choices in life, you also must deal with the consequences of what you raised.

Yes, but even young kids are smart enough to know there are 2 sets of rules and what flies at the grandparents house may not pass at home.

Weird but both my kids like spicy snack foods(current kid craze?) like spicy Cheetos, spicy Pringles, Takis, but when it comes to trying Indian or certain French sauces they reject them? Meanwhile I can't stand the spicy snack foods and prefer just good chips with salsa.

How do you come to that conclusion? Predictions are derived from indicators i.e dark clouds and high winds usually indicate a storm is coming. If a lot of people see those indications and state them, the odds for rain don’t drop. Opinions and observations have zero bearing on the storm.

Sorry for stepping out of line, it’s sunshine and lollipops, nothing to see here. We all know you are the gate keeper and official for all things price wise from pinball to economy and everything in between.

Well, recession is defined as “a period of temporary economic decline during which trade and industrial activity are reduced.” GDP is not the only indicator but is what’s generally used.

I guess trade and industrial activity are up. Weird how so many items are out of stock or prices have skyrocketed in everything from groceries to raw materials for manufacturing due to lack of supply.

Back on topic of TS4 seems like the flippers/scalpers are in a recession.

…a LOT of ‘economics talk’ going on here. Reminder: Don’t anyone DARE mention possible CAUSES of a recession, or the moderators “ALERT: POLITICAL TALK IN SECTOR SEVEN!” warnings will surely sound.

Let me guess, you and your kids act like the wife is a short order cook and they get whatever they want, whenever they want, great.

Right. It’s against the rules to talk politics here or promote political agendas.

Not sure why that’s been causing you to melt down for a month. You know this is a pinball forum right?

Most commodity prices have rolled over last week.

A “recession” is defined as 2 consecutive quarters of declining GDP growth.

It lasted 33 days in 2020.

It’s difficult to have a recession when there is full employment. Layoffs are happening in some sectors and hiring in others like travel and leisure.

This is a run of mill bear market sell off and if a technical recession comes in 2023 then it’s likely to be shallow and not as a result of structural issues.

In other words, it’s not the end of the world

Gotta love it when Lawyers do Economics.

Go watch the news, and share your opinions on a thread that gives a fuck.

Was "surly" instead of "surely" a Freudian slip?
Or do you expect them to have bad attitudes all the while?

Not that it’s relevant here but..

Fwiw, I actually do financial planning and “economics” for a living.

And as a CPA as well I get numbers. Just saying.

So, toy story…. You in or out? I enjoy when threads don’t even notice they’ve threaded away.

If you do the math on 2 Quarters of Negative Growth and come out with the answer : The Recession only lasted- 33 Days!...

not for me you don't.

Lol. Yeah that’s a good thing!

The Bear market lasted 33 days.

Haha. They love those takis and spicy Cheetos too.

I’m still out.