Quoted from tacreno:

What makes you think prices are going to trickle downwards? I've only seen prices go up on every pinball machine in the last 5 years. Some of them are now double what they used to be.

Quoted from pinmister:

I had a friend who put a deposit down a TS4 LE, he has been wanting this title for years now. I had to explain to him that the limited edition is not really limited. With the number of LE units JJP will produce it makes little to no sense to pre-order a LE(he canceled and is going to wait) I think after the dust settles, so will the second hand market pricing. Do you want to pay 12K to have it today or do you want to wait it out as more and more machines become available on the second hand market and prices trickle downwards.
Pricing is high across the board with games so nothing surprises me anymore. Did anyone see the 9k Black Rose-nice! I have been priced out of a few games now-I gave up on the Big Lebowski, TX Sector, and Ice Cold Beer. Great games but are they really worth the asking price? That is up to the eye of the beholder. Toy Story will be fun-will it be 12-15K fun? MMM time will tell

Quoted from Rarehero:

I have a 2 1/2 year old, and we don’t have an iPad in the house

Quoted from pinmister:

We made it to the 6th grade until she starting getting teased about not having a phone.

Quoted from snaroff:

You seem to have a massive collection so I guess space isn't an issue for you

Quoted from frolic:

Wow. Times have changed.
One compromise we have in my house which still exists now even with teenagers are the phones get surrendered in the kitchen for charging in the evening and they’re phone free for the rest of the night. We watch family TV together because they aren’t pulled away by their phones.

Quoted from frolic:

We watch family TV together because they aren’t pulled away by their phones

Quoted from pinmister:

Space is becoming an issue-I am out of room. I don't live in a huge house but I love my neighborhood and schools and can't see living anywhere else. I have a really cool wife who has let me take over the house. Dining room was used once or twice a year-now it is an arcade room. Built out my back patio and enclosed it-now an arcade room, parked one of my trucks in driveway-now half garage is an arcade, basement full, etc. People always say I am out of room-and I always think to myself-are you really out of room? Make more space I say

Quoted from pinmister:

I tried to protect my daughter from the inevitable iphone/ ipad obsession that the majority of children are addicted to. We made it to the 6th grade until she starting getting teased about not having a phone. Now she has the iphone and it has taken over. People always told me-cherish the childhood days because they go by fast. This really is a true statement-time flies by and she is growing up fast. My favorite years with my daughter were age 3-5. Take time off work, take extra vacations, and cherish every moment. One of my best memories with my daughter was taking her to Disneyland and having breakfast with the princesses at Ariels Grotto. Soak it up Greg-it goes fast and keep her innocent as long as possible

Quoted from pinmister:

My favorite years with my daughter were age 3-5. Take time off work, take extra vacations, and cherish every moment

Quoted from pinmister:

I am struggling right now trying to get my daughter to interact and get off the stupid phone. She does not like watching TV at all and I have to force her to watch it. I had to almost drag her to the theatre to see Top Gun. This Tik Tok BS is taking over her life

Quoted from Rarehero:

I make her breakfast every day

Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Are there really no mini wizard modes in Toy Story 4? From the rule sheet I’ve looked at there doesn’t appear to be one which would be a first for a Jersey Jack Pinball game.
It just seems odd to not see at least 1 mini wizard mode for completing say 3 or 4 scenes or 6 of 12 carnival modes.
The only standalone mode in this game, where something isn’t being stacked with anything else, appears to the be the main wizard mode. It’s nice to have at least one mini wizard mode that offers players another standalone mode for those good - great gameplay sessions.

Quoted from Lermods:

I’m not an operator, but I don’t understand why it doesn’t make sense. What’s the going rate on games/play? $1? How many games per year are played typically? The only way it really doesn’t work is if the game doesn’t earn, but it Seems like everyone reporting they played it have liked it.

Quoted from Deez:

Let's say you charge $1.00 a play. Of that dollar you have to give .25 to .50 back to the location. So liberally you're taking in .75 cents per game played. The moment a quarter is dropped thru the coin slot the game depreciates by %20 in the eyes of the collector community regardless of how well it is cared for and maintained.
So I need the machine to reach 3200 plays to reach an even point on the purchase. It would take my machines like a year and a half to get that many plays if it remains popular.
In the past this wasn't as big of a deal because the price of the machine raised faster than that depreciation hit on it not being HUO. I have a hard time seeing this title get more expensive over time at this price point. Dealers having them in stock after release day is a pretty good indicator.
I can buy a Godzilla pro for 6800 that has the exact same math but the starting purchase price is so much lower. I don't even typically purchase premium titles because the price vs earnings gap has never made sense as they all earn around the same. I will buy every single CGC game because they are rock solid quality and play amazing and at a lower price point.
The other piece is how awful JJP customer service is. I had the driver board on my GNR go back and JJP straight up accused me of frying it and wanted to charge me $400 for a new one. Eventually after berating them on pinside they sent me a new one but you imagine that a $400 hit with such thin margins isn't a small deal. The playfield just chip away as well when I've never removed a post or done any modifications but JJP blames the customer.
The next logical step is that I need to charge 1.50 or $2.00 a game. I'm just not a believer people will pay it at this point. Maybe I'm wrong. I'd love to hear ideas on how to make it work.

Quoted from Rarehero:

I have a 2 1/2 year old, and we don’t have an iPad in the house. Thankfully, she rarely wants to grab our phones - usually she just wants to see pictures or videos of herself. She’s going to have such a different set of references than her friends …she loves vinyl records, Pee-Wee’s playhouse, and pinball.

Quoted from Deez:

Let's say you charge $1.00 a play. Of that dollar you have to give .25 to .50 back to the location. So liberally you're taking in .75 cents per game played. The moment a quarter is dropped thru the coin slot the game depreciates by %20 in the eyes of the collector community regardless of how well it is cared for and maintained.
So I need the machine to reach 3200 plays to reach an even point on the purchase. It would take my machines like a year and a half to get that many plays if it remains popular.
In the past this wasn't as big of a deal because the price of the machine raised faster than that depreciation hit on it not being HUO. I have a hard time seeing this title get more expensive over time at this price point. Dealers having them in stock after release day is a pretty good indicator.
I can buy a Godzilla pro for 6800 that has the exact same math but the starting purchase price is so much lower. I don't even typically purchase premium titles because the price vs earnings gap has never made sense as they all earn around the same. I will buy every single CGC game because they are rock solid quality and play amazing and at a lower price point.
The other piece is how awful JJP customer service is. I had the driver board on my GNR go back and JJP straight up accused me of frying it and wanted to charge me $400 for a new one. Eventually after berating them on pinside they sent me a new one but you imagine that a $400 hit with such thin margins isn't a small deal. The playfield just chip away as well when I've never removed a post or done any modifications but JJP blames the customer.
The next logical step is that I need to charge 1.50 or $2.00 a game. I'm just not a believer people will pay it at this point. Maybe I'm wrong. I'd love to hear ideas on how to make it work.

Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:

I feel sorry for the folks who are scammed into buying this while expecting a rib sandwich.
[quoted image]

Quoted from rai:

Well for me there is probably an auxiliary action of the new pin. I have 14 pins in my home I don’t need to go to the arcade period. However they get a new Toy Story I’m going to the arcade. Then I’m playing TS and other games. If not for TS they’d not have any of my plays on it or the other pins at that location.

Quoted from Rarehero:

That’s the Boomeriest of Boomer takes. If kids wanna look at a screen, they all have screens. It’s a normal part of life, not something that’s going to impress them in a pinball machine. They’ll either like pinball or they won’t. On top of that, this game is too expensive for operators. You won’t see them in kiddie locations.

Quoted from Deez:

Let's say you charge $1.00 a play. Of that dollar you have to give .25 to .50 back to the location. So liberally you're taking in .75 cents per game played. The moment a quarter is dropped thru the coin slot the game depreciates by %20 in the eyes of the collector community regardless of how well it is cared for and maintained.
So I need the machine to reach 3200 plays to reach an even point on the purchase. It would take my machines like a year and a half to get that many plays if it remains popular.
In the past this wasn't as big of a deal because the price of the machine raised faster than that depreciation hit on it not being HUO. I have a hard time seeing this title get more expensive over time at this price point. Dealers having them in stock after release day is a pretty good indicator.
I can buy a Godzilla pro for 6800 that has the exact same math but the starting purchase price is so much lower. I don't even typically purchase premium titles because the price vs earnings gap has never made sense as they all earn around the same. I will buy every single CGC game because they are rock solid quality and play amazing and at a lower price point.
The other piece is how awful JJP customer service is. I had the driver board on my GNR go back and JJP straight up accused me of frying it and wanted to charge me $400 for a new one. Eventually after berating them on pinside they sent me a new one but you imagine that a $400 hit with such thin margins isn't a small deal. The playfield just chip away as well when I've never removed a post or done any modifications but JJP blames the customer.
The next logical step is that I need to charge 1.50 or $2.00 a game. I'm just not a believer people will pay it at this point. Maybe I'm wrong. I'd love to hear ideas on how to make it work.

Quoted from Deez:

Let's say you charge $1.00 a play. Of that dollar you have to give .25 to .50 back to the location. So liberally you're taking in .75 cents per game played. The moment a quarter is dropped thru the coin slot the game depreciates by %20 in the eyes of the collector community regardless of how well it is cared for and maintained.
So I need the machine to reach 3200 plays to reach an even point on the purchase. It would take my machines like a year and a half to get that many plays if it remains popular.
In the past this wasn't as big of a deal because the price of the machine raised faster than that depreciation hit on it not being HUO. I have a hard time seeing this title get more expensive over time at this price point. Dealers having them in stock after release day is a pretty good indicator.
I can buy a Godzilla pro for 6800 that has the exact same math but the starting purchase price is so much lower. I don't even typically purchase premium titles because the price vs earnings gap has never made sense as they all earn around the same. I will buy every single CGC game because they are rock solid quality and play amazing and at a lower price point.
The other piece is how awful JJP customer service is. I had the driver board on my GNR go back and JJP straight up accused me of frying it and wanted to charge me $400 for a new one. Eventually after berating them on pinside they sent me a new one but you imagine that a $400 hit with such thin margins isn't a small deal. The playfield just chip away as well when I've never removed a post or done any modifications but JJP blames the customer.
The next logical step is that I need to charge 1.50 or $2.00 a game. I'm just not a believer people will pay it at this point. Maybe I'm wrong. I'd love to hear ideas on how to make it work.

Quoted from Rarehero:

That’s the Boomeriest of Boomer takes. If kids wanna look at a screen, they all have screens. It’s a normal part of life, not something that’s going to impress them in a pinball machine. They’ll either like pinball or they won’t. On top of that, this game is too expensive for operators. You won’t see them in kiddie locations.

Quoted from Haymaker:

Yep, 50/50 location split is very common. So thats 24,000 plays to break even at a buck a game, and thats not taking into account maintenance (which there will be plenty) and time/gas/ect collecting and all the other things that go into running a route. The location I play at now is charging $1.50 a game on stern premiums because the price is so high. I can't imagine trying to operate a 12k game. I'm sure there are locations out there that could turn a profit, but they are not common by any stretch of the imagination.

Quoted from pinmister:

This game has classic simple elements with what looks to be great flow.

Quoted from PanzerFreak:

I think he may just mean buy an HUO LE in 6 months to a year for $10k. One problem with these crazy increasing prices on basically unlimited models is that a greater hit is then taken on the secondary market. A $2k hit isn’t terrible I suppose compared to a new car but then again a few years back it was a $500 - $1,000 hit as pricing was lower.

Quoted from pinmister:

I had to almost drag her to the theatre to see Top Gun. This Tik Tok BS is taking over her life

Quoted from blacklightprod:

When the hack happened

Quoted from flynnibus:

They can’t turn a profit using 1990s logic in 2020
Unless a spot is gods gift to the earth in coin drop… no way should you be splitting 50/50 anymore. It’s not uncommon to have operator slanted deals if bringing in halo pieces.
The 80/90s logic no longer applies.

Quoted from Haymaker:

I don't know what the split is, just seems common around these parts. I know my dad still does 50/50 on his small route but all his stuff is garbo anyway

Quoted from flynnibus:

Let's just say.. if someone is splitting 50/50 with pins and complaining about profitability, ESPECIALLY with new equipment... self inflicted wounds.
Classic Vids are similar... you can't make any money with the old arcade mindset. The good news is for pins and vids recently is the appreciation of residual values.. so you can retire a piece with very high resale these days. But in turn, it makes it expensive to expand.. so you can't just go and invest for a location with just simple hopes of 60/40 or 50/50 splits. Minimums, etc are all in play now.

Quoted from flynnibus:

Let's just say.. if someone is splitting 50/50 with pins and complaining about profitability, ESPECIALLY with new equipment... self inflicted wounds.
Classic Vids are similar... you can't make any money with the old arcade mindset. The good news is for pins and vids recently is the appreciation of residual values.. so you can retire a piece with very high resale these days. But in turn, it makes it expensive to expand.. so you can't just go and invest for a location with just simple hopes of 60/40 or 50/50 splits. Minimums, etc are all in play now.

Quoted from flynnibus:

Let's just say.. if someone is splitting 50/50 with pins and complaining about profitability, ESPECIALLY with new equipment... self inflicted wounds.
Classic Vids are similar... you can't make any money with the old arcade mindset. The good news is for pins and vids recently is the appreciation of residual values.. so you can retire a piece with very high resale these days. But in turn, it makes it expensive to expand.. so you can't just go and invest for a location with just simple hopes of 60/40 or 50/50 splits. Minimums, etc are all in play now.

Quoted from galore2112:

Can you really get a good price for heavily routed equipment? The local barcade has a Godzilla LE and that is so beat up that I would not buy it even if it was super cheap. The games on pinside that are listed for top dollar are usually very nice and not sloppy seconds from months or years of abuse in some barcade.

Quoted from flynnibus:

Yes - you take care of your gear and it will hold up and retain value. Don't forget... all those $10k TZs were routed games too... You don't need HUO values to offset a huge portion of your up-front cost.
Take a JJP game for instance... if you sold for $1500 less than a HUO version of a game.. you're still likely getting $5-$7k in the residual value. You're getting like 75% of your initial investment back just in the sale of the game. All those purdy HUO games for sale help because they keep prices high relative to the initial cost of the game.
Too much of the hobby is "oh I'll just buy new instead..." which inflates prices like crazy. But they can't keep doing that once a game is not in production.. yet they are all conditioned to pay NIB level pricing.. so they pay high used prices too. Offer a discount vs the HUO prices and games sell easily.

Quoted from galore2112:

I have three games off route, TZ, IJ and CV but those have no (IJ, CV) or minimal wear whereas the GZLE apparently has thousands of plays and damage down to bare wood. Do people really pay $$$ for worn games? I felt conflicted paying $2k for my CV back then because it has a chip or two on the back box but I would have never bought it if it looked trashed like that GZLE.
I really never see heavily routed damaged recent pins for sale. Do you have examples of chewed up recent LEs or CEs and how much they sell for?

Quoted from ZMeny:

NEW SDTM: Toy Story 4 Pinball First Impressions!

Quoted from Fizz:

Toy story 4 is a fantastic film?

Quoted from Fizz:

Toy story 4 is a fantastic film?

Quoted from ZMeny:

Yeah great great film.