usually he is quick to have them listed on his website.. Just thought it was odd there is no mention of Toy Story at all.

When the hack happened all my pinball friends said HARD PASS - IM OUT - NO WAY - I HATE TOY STORY 4 - WHY COULDN'T THIS GAME BE TOY STORY... the negative just swelled by the second.

THEN something happened... better videos got released then they said well I'm softening. Then something unheard of happened JJP had over 300 Limited Editions machines picked up in person or shipped day one. We got one at our facility and about 20 people showed up and played the game.

Comments like my kids would love this... this game is so much fun. It flows like butter. OMG the Kaboom ramp is just glorious. They saw all the interesting shots, heard Tim Allen doing all the call outs, and bam WE WANT ONE! No we have to HAVE ONE NOW!

Moral here is why would you do a car review from seeing a video of the car, wouldn't you drive it first. Why are there so many critics based on a photo or a short video. Isn't pinball a game you play?

Play the game and your opinion will change VERY QUICKLY!

Totally in because this game is a masterpiece. Don't take my word for it just find a place that has the game and have some fun.

Uh $12k plus shipping and tax for a bare bones pin is the problem if you get an LE, and $15k for a CE.This would be a pro model if stern did it. Well minus the tablet screen.

If you want one just wait for used one to appear. GNR LE’s are already dropping in price used well below $11.5k

A masterpiece? You came to this conclusion after a few games?

I agree that everyone should play the game - any game - before deciding whether or not purchasing makes sense. There are few games in pinball history that can be considered masterpieces. I’m pretty sure TS4 will never make that list.

I have a 2 1/2 year old, and we don’t have an iPad in the house. Thankfully, she rarely wants to grab our phones - usually she just wants to see pictures or videos of herself. She’s going to have such a different set of references than her friends …she loves vinyl records, Pee-Wee’s playhouse, and pinball.

Because if the car looked like this there would be no need for me to drive it to know that I didnt like it.

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Because most people can’t play before buying if everyone is FOMO crazy & the game is likely to sell out. We can only form an opinion based on the information we have.

I'm going to be totally honest ... I would drive that car in a heartbeat. I love Wacky Racers

Yeah that’s the obvious part because modern eras love screens and live through them but then putting digital pinball on it completely defeats the purpose.

Use it for a tonne of app like mini games between physical modes of pinball and you stand a great chance of drip feeding them into pinball.

Since it seems to play well, hopefully they will retheme it in the future.

True. I'd give this post a 1,000x thumbs up if I could. I was pretty tough on Stern about some things with the Rush release, ie. no expression lighting on the Premium, etc. but never Jon's game design, love it. I feel that's petty now compared to what JJP just did, an across the board price increase, again.
I'd bet between the 3 Rush models, Stern will bring in quite the revenue with accessories like toppers & expression lighting when available to easily hold their own vs JJP with TS4 in it's entirety. Hope Stern solves the issues with goods & materials, more things back in stock would keep many of us happy. Maybe wise -not- to do a price increase and simply keep selling a ton of games after this JJP debacle.
Toy Story '4' is a strange marquee name for the game isn't it? Boy would that be pretty weird to have this in the game room instead of 'Toy Story' for that price! but what I find even more strange is no SE model. A supposed family, kids theme with no value model? Yet they released an SE model for GNR? An adult-themed rock pin with cartoon graphics on it? I bet a lot of families with young kids and even myself might've been in on an SE for the first time with this one but no way now at 12-15k. Many other great titles out there for less if willing to wait a little bit longer.

You wouldn’t and no one is doing a full review of the game, just their initial impressions from photos and video.

I can tell you from a photo, video and the sound of a car I would rather own this:

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Over this:

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The real question is not about which one you would like.. Which one can you afford?

.

he could be on vacation..

Not every game is for every person that is something in pinball community people start accepting. A lot of people think every game should be made just for them, to their tastes and their likes. A lot of people would tell you the next 10 pinballs should be Megadeath, Judas Priest, etc. Jersey Jack has been pretty steady in their pinball choices such as Wizard of Oz, Wonka, Toy Story or even Pirates all family movies. The detour was Guns N Roses but honestly they did a fantastic job there as well. The theme appeals to a different crowd it really is that simple.

However I would promise you this play the game you'll love it. If Pinball is supposed to be fun this game embodies fun. As for the theme being Toy Story 4 opposed to Toy Story 1 or 2 play the game... it feels like its just Toy Story. Tim Allen does all the call outs, Tom Hanks brother is Woody it feels like a Toy Story adventure. Stern does Jurassic Park and it has NOTHING to do with the movies what so ever and people love it. Hmmm... so!

Just play the game and have some fun the game is really a lot of fun!

I thought I'd mention since at one point I'd posted about trading my jjp Pirates to get a Toy Story. And I keep getting offers. I'm no longer interested in a trade for my Pirates.

Thank you.
LTG : )

I have fun playing almost every pin, after all it is a game. However, when I spend $20,000 CAD on a game it has to meet certain criteria. TS4 does not excite me nearly as much as the past dozen pinball releases. But it should have, that’s all I’m saying.

Playing the game and having fun is not the issue.
PAYING for the game is the issue.

I don’t have to own every game I enjoy. But I have to love every game I own.

TS4 reminds me of Rush in acceptance. Rush had many people play it, who just don’t get it. I’m in that camp so can empathize. Rush fans on the other hand, really enjoy their game. And here is the part that kills me - they don’t care if anybody else likes it and buys it, they are just content. They don’t try to sell you or convert you. In fact if you ask them to be specific about what they like … they are very general and say it feels good and I like it.

So that brings us to TS4. Some like it, some don’t. Some like it a lot and some dislike it a lot. For those that don’t like it or think they won’t like it, they can’t believe other people who said it is really good do. For those that like it, they have been unable to pinpoint why, only that it is fun and enjoyable and it feels like TS. So frustrating. Well, everyone will need to play one and decide for themselves. This was kind of JJP’s strategy imo, to get everyone to try it and believing that will generate enough interest to sell out of games, eventually. Also they want their games on location earning money, because these games are $pricey.

I would posit that with TS4, we actually have the opposite situation.

I think that true Toy Story fans like myself and my family, will, in general, not be fans of this pinball machine. Because most Toy Story fans are actually NOT fans of the film Toy Story 4. And the game does not contain most of the characters, settings, etc that are loved within the world of toy story.

That being said, the game itself looks fun! When the game itself is judged by pinheads based on gameplay, it may turn out to be a winner. ( Or not, I haven't played it yet so I don't know).

Therefore, people who are just casually into toy story or not really into it at all may very well like this game more than actual toy story fans. Because if you don't care about the theme then you can just judge the game itself.

Of course there are also some people who will be turned off by what they see as a "kids" theme. But that would probably be true no matter how well the toy story theme was executed.

Showed my wife a few Toy Story 4 gameplay videos tonight to get her thoughts. She's a casual pinball player and insisted on us buying GNR LE and Wonka LE. She was disappointed to say the least by the videos. There were a number of Forky complaints lol ("Forky is just stupid" for one), commenting how the giant screen is ugly and agreeing with me that a mechanical mech should be there instead, and just a general bewilderment why the game and content is solely focused on Toy Story 4 versus the earlier films. "So disappointing" is what she said by the end. If we are going to drop $12k on a pinball machine we need to love it and sadly this isn't it which is disappointing for us as we really enjoy the earlier Toy Story films.

I'm confused. Isn't coin-op even more price sensitive (than selling to collectors)? Isn't that why Stern still has a "Pro" model in the mix? I realize arcades have come back in many places, however I imagine JJP sells more games to collectors than arcades...

I don't disagree with you and as I said not every game is for everyone. A lot of old school pinball guys wanted Rush, but Rush honestly isn't a very popular band with only 4 million spotify listeners per month compared to say Queen at 30 million. Why no Queen? I dunno. But the people who wanted Rush wanted it very badly, and they're happy as a lark. Good for them. I can think of 50 bands/groups with 2 to 10 times more popularity than Rush I certainly didn't want to see a Rush pinball especially before say Nirvana. C'mon already. But Rush has their base and their base was on cloud nine. The rest of us Nirvana or Queen fans will have to wait I guess. Point being everyone has their tastes but Rush is still a really nice pinball game despite not really being a fan... I was like OH NO RUSH, but I got the game played it and liked it. Rush is no dream theme for me but its a really nice game all the same.

Toy Story might not be for you but at least PLAY TOY STORY and see what you think.

I found these arguments foolish because we see people on this very site asking for $20,000 for their Jurassic Park LE. What is so much better about Jurassic Park LE than the Premium some powder coating??? We see people asking for 20k for Deadpool, some whacko wanted 25k for Tron, someone just put up a Batman 66 SLE for 60k... yeah I said that right 60K.

Obviously they didn't sell but right now people are asking a lot for their games. RIGHT NOW NEW GAMES cost LESS than USED GAMES... think about that. How can anyone complain about Toy Story at 12k considering people want $12k for Led Zep with a topper. HUH?

The price is high but its not out of line with what the secondarily market is asking for used games. I see someone wants 10k for a Stranger Things PRO... we're talking 2k difference for Toy Story which has a massive screen, powder coating, all the JJP typical bells and whistles.

I can agree I don't like where pinball is heading but look at prices for rent in New York 4k a month average right now, nearly 7 dollars for gas in California, everything is out of control right now including pinball.

Yep, it's all very confusing. No SE model for this release basically makes the LE model a Pro so no way at 12k + and that's a lot of quarters/dollars for an operator to break even on. One might be able to sell the LE and not lose anything later on if they don't like it but I can't see how it would rise in value at 5-6,000 made when GNR LE still breaks even a year after release. I think the whole release was insensitive to the economic situation on JJP's part & just wreaks of greed to me but not in the funny Addam's family type of way!

Yeah, I think that JJP could have pretty easily made a "Standard" version of TS4. Maybe take out the spinning disc and move it to the screen, and lose the powdercoating. That would probably be enough for JJP Standard.

I think a sub-10k TS4 would be an easier pill to swallow for a lot of people, and locations. Buuuut, what do I know?

Subtract $100 from the BOM and charge $2k less? I'm sure the investors love that idea.

For anyone that ordered directly from JJP.. any idea why when I log in I don’t see anything in my order history? I have a confirmation number?

Me too. If Pedretti makes a Woody's Nightmare 2.0 only then would I consider it.

Cause the Pinball Brother, that has the Queen license, can’t get the Alien run finished to make Queen.

Yes spending another 2.5K on it should make it worth it then!

Yes fully aware of the Queen demo game that is out there. No one has ever confirmed they have the Queen license but what I actually meant was why hasn't there ever been a Queen pinball before Rush? Rush to me never made sense its a niche band with a loyal following. Where is Queen? I could go down a list from Prince to Nirvana to Korn to Bee Gees... but whatever.

The overall point however was I'm not into Rush never understood why put the effort out on a game that probably won't sell but a couple thousand units when Nirvana could sell 10,000 units. But whatever I'm only saying it is what it is... I'm not going to be relentless and bash the actual game because I don't like the theme. Toy Story just isn't for everyone and its FINE! The next game from Stern is Venom is that for everyone I don't think so.

JJP has made games honestly that appealed to a different group of people, and they've done wonders to grow pinball. You can't tell me that ANYONE saw Wizard of Oz Pinball coming? HUH... coming from the days of Rock n Roll, Horror and Action movies WIZARD OF OZ a movie 75 years old? HUH!

But it worked! Toy Story is the new Wizard of Oz for a different generation it ushered in CGI animation. Toy Story has entire sections of Disney with lands, rides and merchandise.

When all is said and done JJP licensed one of Disney's biggest licenses and their most beloved. Toy Story in a way pushed Disney into a bigger company and launched Pixar. Disney had a LOT of control over what could be done in a Toy Story pinball. So you like it you buy it or you don't and you wait for the next game on deck which will be Venom.

The sky isn't falling on pinball... its falling with inflation across the country. Toy Story is a magical game for a certain kind of home!

And yet none of it was updated with components from TS4.

No. JJP either licensed just TS4 or managed to completely misunderstand that most beloved license.
What they did with the pinball game is like saying Snow White is about an apple tree.

Just not the homes of most Toy Story fans.

if i must have a lawler, ill go buy Whirlwind. Shoots like butter, more innovation than TS4 and saves me 12k, no brainer !

You could probably get a Whirlwind and Gofers for <$12k. Then you could have two great shooting Lawlor games with a bash toy (and a spare), two spinning wheels and the jump ramp. I’ve got both so TS4 doesn’t really offer me anything I haven’t already got.

Uh huh.

I’ll spin the wheel of chance on losing out.

With this being I think the 2nd Disney license maybe it’s best not to deal with them them overall. I mean we hardly got any Pirates footage and or voices of actors In that pin and we got a little more in Ts4 but maybe it’s just not possible to mark a superior game if not released with everything from them to bring the game it’s true life. I always ask why impersonator’s voice actors can’t be used in all games. But not being allowed to use all access of the movie hurts any game being made no matter how good the layout.

Pie in the sky requests. Even if one I D 10 T paid 60 grand for anything would still not interest me. California and NY are exodus states and Rich flexing is just that. And this ain’t 30 years ago when folks cared.

Pinball is AT where it was headed with pricing and I have faith that my fellow cooler heads will prevail. Or not. I’m still enjoying the show.

Depends what’s in the back though lol

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Meh

I love your optimism. The reality of the situation is the game is too expensive at 12k. As an operator I cannot justify buying one because there just isn't an ROI that makes sense at that price point. The other local operators I know have also said they are not buying.

The game looks good from the videos and I believe it will play great like most JJP games do. I agree with your points that not every game will appeal to every person but if you're going to charge so much for a game, you'd think it'd be reasonable to expect you'd center the theme around the most popular piece of that IP vs the most current.
I don't see anyone saying the game sucks, they're saying it's not the right theme choice they expected and it's too expensive for what you get.

I had a friend who put a deposit down a TS4 LE, he has been wanting this title for years now. I had to explain to him that the limited edition is not really limited. With the number of LE units JJP will produce it makes little to no sense to pre-order a LE(he canceled and is going to wait) I think after the dust settles, so will the second hand market pricing. Do you want to pay 12K to have it today or do you want to wait it out as more and more machines become available on the second hand market and prices trickle downwards.

Pricing is high across the board with games so nothing surprises me anymore. Did anyone see the 9k Black Rose-nice! I have been priced out of a few games now-I gave up on the Big Lebowski, TX Sector, and Ice Cold Beer. Great games but are they really worth the asking price? That is up to the eye of the beholder. Toy Story will be fun-will it be 12-15K fun? MMM time will tell

What makes you think prices are going to trickle downwards? I've only seen prices go up on every pinball machine in the last 5 years. Some of them are now double what they used to be.

I’m not an operator, but I don’t understand why it doesn’t make sense. What’s the going rate on games/play? $1? How many games per year are played typically? The only way it really doesn’t work is if the game doesn’t earn, but it Seems like everyone reporting they played it have liked it.

I could be totally wrong-it is all supply and demand. JJP is pushing out some good quantities and if more and more start hitting the market prices will adjust. If I had to guess probably 9-10k used years from now? I do not have a crystal ball and inflation has thrown a wrench in everything. Houses doubled, cars doubled, but my paycheck has not?