(Topic ID: 38782)

Tournament play... A question of ethics


6 years ago

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  • 84 posts
  • 30 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by bkerins
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    Topic poll

    “Tournament play... A question of ethics”

    • Cheat sheets/ strategy cards are fine 35 votes
    • Hell no, part of the skill is having a good memory 3 votes
    • Its ok as long as everyone has access to it 12 votes
    • Its only fine in between games/balls 21 votes

    (71 votes by 0 Pinsiders)

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    #8 6 years ago
    Quoted from RGR:

    Your playing in an event either at a home game, PAPA, Pinburgh, IFPA etc etc. The game of choice is ACDC and you are playing with 3 other people. One of the players has some "cheat sheets" which he places on either side of the game which cover the menu cards.. One sheet has the song associated with the tours and the other has the songs assoicated with the albums. When he finishes playing he takes the sheets/cards off the game.
    Is this unethical or against the rules to have strategy sheets or cards which help you learn the game whilst playing it in a tournament. I know there are applications that are allowed when playing online poker to help you and given that ACDC is so complicated I was wondering what anyone thought if this????

    It's totally allowed. In fact, if you know the lineup for a tournament in advance it's a good idea to watch whatever tutorials are available and print off the rule sheet at pinball.org. People used to bring the shuttle cave pattern for ST:TNG.

    #14 6 years ago
    Quoted from RGR:

    What if those notes where given to a player that had never played the game before and followed the strategy given to them from an A grade player and went on to win Division D in Pinburgh???

    Yeah, coaching and sharing info is encouraged (between balls but not during actual play)

    During the warmup at pinburgh last year myself and the other league players hit different banks of games and then reported back our findings via group text. "loose tilt on Transformers" "claw disabled on demoman." On games I didn't know at all, I would try to find one of the other league players who already played it and get some pointers. Twice that resulted in wins.

    #16 6 years ago
    Quoted from RGR:

    Yeah strategy cards that are on the game could be considered coaching during the game?? I understand that shots have to be made however you could have an A grade player who knows nothing about ACDC getting smashed by a B grade player who knows the strategy. Its one of those games where knowledge and strategy have a massive advantage...

    In a nutshell, that's pinball.

    And actually, the situation is even worse than that. At pinburgh/papa, the "usual" big scoring strategies for games will often times be made more difficult through software or mechanical adjustment. For example on Family Guy, I can spinner/mode/spinner/mode on most route games for 50M easy before I ever think of other shots in the game. But the one at Pinburgh was extremely hard to control off the loop. Nobody scored well and the guys who finished top 2 basically did so because they shot the right ramp several times for a few extra million so their suck was a little better than our suck.

    #19 6 years ago
    Quoted from RGR:

    Down here we had the national ACDC championship and I was debating whether to have a set of notes on the game. I decided not to do it...

    Did you win?

    #26 6 years ago
    Quoted from ifpapinball:

    I tend to agree with MHS as far as writing whatever you want on your hand, or whipping out a piece of paper with some info on it, etc.
    Personally I think the line is drawn at 'electronic devices'.
    I know I have the AC/DC song list bookmark'd on my iPhone for reference during the game, but I actually think that is crossing the line for tournament play, because I could just as easily look at my iPhone to read a text from my brother giving me coaching tips 'live'.

    Uh oh slippery slope. How do we know that's an mp3 player the guy is listening to?

    #34 6 years ago
    Quoted from RGR:

    I think ACDC is the only game that you may need a cheat sheet during the game since its so hard to remember which song to play depending on what album/ tour you are upto... Not sure that an mp3 player would be affective here...

    No, what I was implying is what if those headphones are going to a phone, not an MP3 player.

    It's a bit far-fetched but in a tournament like pinburgh where there are literally over 100 tournament games, almost every player runs into an unfamiliar game.

    One time I was playing with the danish pinball champion (seriously, there is one!) and he had not seen Creature since it was originally on location. He remembered nothing about it. I talked him through the shots and on his very first game he got just under a billion.

    #36 6 years ago

    Well, because until the last year or so, you could count the public pins in denmark on two hands!

    It's actually seen a bit of a surge in the last year, which is really great. They formed a league. When my danish friend comes to visit we hold a special tournament for him. When he was leaving we held "Ban Danish Pinball". When he came back for a visit we held "Import Danish Pinball".

    The italian guy is frankly amazing because he only gets limited interaction with the rest of the top players. If they guy lived in one of the hot spots of the US I can't even imagine how hard he'd be dominating. Obviously a true pure talent.

    #62 6 years ago
    Quoted from bkerins:

    But they're not doing their homework. Doing their homework would be actually learning how to play the game and remembering it when necessary. It's not called a "cheat sheet" for nothing.
    At Pinburgh players will be allowed to use any reference material they like, videos or sheets or other players, anytime they are NOT playing their turn. No reference material will be allowed during play other than the material the game already provides on its playfield or instruction cards.

    Eh... I disagree with this. There are so many games at Pinburgh and most players have access to a few, particularly new-comers. Who is going to memorize the ST:TNG video pattern? But that can be a game maker. Just an example, but it happens.

    #66 6 years ago
    Quoted from bkerins:

    But a player can see that they're about to play STTNG, and use that time to re-learn the pattern by asking a friend or looking it up. (It's not hard, actually: 2-2-2, 1-1-1. 2 lefts, 2 rights, 2 lefts. 1 right, 1 left, 1 right.) But using a cheat sheet during the turn is like having someone behind you yelling LEFT and RIGHT. I don't think that's fair.

    Bowen, are you honestly capable of remembering that pattern RIGHT before a game?

    You probably are - you're a math wiz.

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