(Topic ID: 112590)

Totan spikes dont raise

By Pinmeister

9 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 29 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 years ago by jwo825
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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#1 9 years ago

The right ball save spikes on my TOTAN only raise about 1/2 inch on activation. I have replaced the coil and sleeve but this has had no effect. The lowered height of the spikes is properly adjusted and the mechanism moves freely manually. Not an opto issue as the spikes trigger properly. What should I be looking for?

#2 9 years ago

Look at the parts diagram in the manual and at yours. Anything different or missing ? Coil stop or rubber grommet maybe ?

LTG : )™

#3 9 years ago

Can you lift them by hand? It might not be a problem with the coil if they are binding.

Post edited by herg: Should have read closer
I missed it the first time through. Time to get some sleep, I guess.

#4 9 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Look at the parts diagram in the manual and at yours. Anything different or missing ? Coil stop or rubber grommet maybe ?
LTG : )™

All parts present. It used to work properly.

#5 9 years ago

The spikes are sitting just below the surface of the playfield?

#6 9 years ago

I'd check connections from the coil to the power driver board. Maybe a wire in an IDC connector not making good contact anymore.

LTG : )™

#7 9 years ago

Thanks. Getting too late to work on tonight.

#8 9 years ago

Here's a problem I had with mine. The set screw that adjusts the height has a plastic tip that the plunger rests on. The plastic tip broke off of mine and it was making metal to metal contact and wouldn't fire. I could put a thin piece of plastic between them and it would fire. I just changed the set screw and it fixed the issue. Maybe check that?

#9 9 years ago

Since you say they raise about 1/2" when activated, it doesn't really sound like an electrical problem to me. I'd be focusing on mechanical issues.

#10 9 years ago

Couple of questions:
1) does it move freely as an assembly both out of the game and installed in the game?
2) do you get more than 1/2" travel when moving freely outside of the game?
3) when the spikes activate, do they move up really quickly, or does it take time to get to the "up" position
4) have you checked to see if there is any dirt or other gunk in the holes for the spikes, there is not much clearance between the holes and spikes so anything trapped in there could cause it to bind
5) any bent spikes that don't seem to be in alignment, or parallel with the rest of the spikes
6) did you check voltage at the coil on firing

I'm assuming, based on your notes that you can get more than 1/2" in game if you move it by hand. I'm also assuming that when you move it by hand in game you don't feel any resistance during travel. Weird.

Scott

#11 9 years ago
Quoted from herg:

Since you say they raise about 1/2" when activated, it doesn't really sound like an electrical problem to me.

Unless they don't get enough power to go up. And since it's both of them, not too likely they'd both have the same problem, starting the same time, and apparently not after they have been worked on.

LTG : )™

#12 9 years ago
Quoted from Pinmeister:

The right ball save spikes on my TOTAN only raise about 1/2 inch on activation

Sounds like it's only one set.

I'm not trying to argue; that would be pretty stupid considering your experience. I'm just putting forth my best guess. Your own first guess was mechanical issues as well.

#13 9 years ago
Quoted from toyboy6:

Couple of questions:
1) does it move freely as an assembly both out of the game and installed in the game?
2) do you get more than 1/2" travel when moving freely outside of the game?
3) when the spikes activate, do they move up really quickly, or does it take time to get to the "up" position
4) have you checked to see if there is any dirt or other gunk in the holes for the spikes, there is not much clearance between the holes and spikes so anything trapped in there could cause it to bind
5) any bent spikes that don't seem to be in alignment, or parallel with the rest of the spikes
6) did you check voltage at the coil on firing

1 & 2: Moves freely, have not removed full assembly from game
3. Spikes move slowly
4. Holes are clean.
5. Spikes are straight
6. Need to check. Next on things to do as well as looking for broken wire.

Left assembly works perfectly and fast.

#14 9 years ago
Quoted from herg:

Sounds like it's only one set.

Right you are. Thank you.

Left assembly works, then look it over and look for any differences to the right one.

LTG : )™

#15 9 years ago
Quoted from jwo825:

Here's a problem I had with mine. The set screw that adjusts the height has a plastic tip that the plunger rests on. The plastic tip broke off of mine and it was making metal to metal contact and wouldn't fire. I could put a thin piece of plastic between them and it would fire. I just changed the set screw and it fixed the issue. Maybe check that?

This is why I was asking if the spikes are just below the surface of the playfield.
The lower it is down in the cabinet, the tougher it is for the assembly to kick it up to the correct height.
Try adjusting the set screw upward anyway and see what happens.

I worked on a TOTAN with one assembly that would not kick up at all. Found it was completely missing that set screw.

#16 9 years ago

Set screw present, has nylon tip present, and is adjusted so that spikes are just below surface of the PF.
Has to be a voltage or connection problem. Just need some uninterrupted time to trace everything. Of course the machine is in the worst corner to work on. Appreciate the help though.

#17 9 years ago

Thank you for the confirmation on the height adjustment.

Does it only kick up that same amount in the coil test as it does in game play?

If it kicks correctly in coil test, I would think your optos for that right spike could use a cleaning.
Hell, clean them anyway.

#18 9 years ago

Does not kick up properly in coil test. Q68 transistor checks out OK.

#19 9 years ago
Quoted from Pinmeister:

Does not kick up properly in coil test

It gets more power in test.

There has to be something different from the working one you just aren't seeing.

LTG : )™

#20 9 years ago

MB, CC, and MM have the same driver board if you want to try it in TOTAN to narrow it down to playfield or board issue.

#21 9 years ago

Swapping with spare board tomorrow. Wonder when Borygard will be in Denver.

#22 9 years ago
Quoted from Pinmeister:

Does not kick up properly in coil test

And the rubber grommet is there that the plunger rests on ?

LTG : )™

#23 9 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

And the rubber grommet is there that the plunger rests on ?
LTG : )™

The plunger rests on a threaded pin that has a nylon insert where it touches the plunger. It is intact and properly adjusted. Can you substitute a 14525-06 power board for a 14525-07 board?

#24 9 years ago

Did you ever get around to measuring the voltage at the coil?

I don't especially like doing this, but you could manually fire the coil using a test lead. If that still didn't work, you could eliminate the control circuit as a possible cause.

#25 9 years ago
Quoted from herg:

Did you ever get around to measuring the voltage at the coil?
I don't especially like doing this, but you could manually fire the coil using a test lead. If that still didn't work, you could eliminate the control circuit as a possible cause.

Next on the list.

1 week later
#26 9 years ago

TOTAN cage spikes finally working. Problem was that the assembly where the spikes are attached to the armature had become loose. Fixed with a cold chisel upside down, and a 2 lb. sledge. Special thanks to Borygard's diagnostic skills.

#27 9 years ago

Could you post what Borygard said? Chisel and sledgehammer are not usually in my pinball toolbox.

1 week later
#28 9 years ago

The spikes are press fitted onto the collar that the plunger attaches to (with the threaded screw). That connection had loosened over time the reverse end of the cold chisel could apply even pressure onto the joint without damaging the spikes. A few taps of the sledge (with the flat bottom of the assembly siting on the concrete garage floor) press fitted the pieces back into a solid unit.

#29 9 years ago

Awesome. Be sure to mark this thread as resolved in case someone is searching for the same problem later. That way they know it leads to a known solution.

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