(Topic ID: 66261)

TOTAN registering double switches, help please.


By rockotaco1

5 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 28 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by schonb25
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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!cid__1013131233 totan test-970.jpg
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#1 5 years ago

I've got one issue to fix before I can relist this machine for sale. I've posted about the issue before, but I'm having trouble getting it taken care of. It's relatively simple, so I hope I can get some help.

When the ball is locked, it will spit 2 balls into the shooter lane. I'm almost convinced that what's causing it is a bad diode, I just can't pinpoint it. When I do a switch edge test, some switches will activate twice, like the left outlane will register as both outlanes, and vice versa. Both inlanes will register twice super fast as both inlanes with a single press of the switch. Some of the ramps register twice as well. I know this isn't normal.

Can anyone help me figure out how to identify the bad diode? I've been working on this all day long and I found one diode that was broken, so I replaced it. I thought for sure that was the cause of all my problems, but it wasn't. Only fixed the one switch. Thanks in advance.

#2 5 years ago

Provide a list (using the switch numbers) of all switches that cause a phantom closure (also list the phantom closure for each). Most of the time that will be enough to narrow it down.

Also test with all balls removed and see if anything changes.

Have you done any work on any switches before this started happening?

#3 5 years ago

Seems like when I hit a lot of the switches it triggers "ramp made rgt", not sure what that means.

I recorded a video of almost all of the switches in a test.

#4 5 years ago

Thanks for the video, but then I have to go through it and write down the information I requested previously. There's a pattern to phantom switch indications (if the problem is on the playfield) and spotting that pattern relies on the info I requested. I know it's tedious, but there's no way around it.

As I suggested, pull the balls out of the game and see what happens.

If there are that many problems use the following procedure (at the bottom of the page) for identifying if the problem is on the board or playfield. The procedure is for WPC, but you should be able to translate it to WPC95.

http://www.pinballrehab.com/1-articles/solid-state-repair/repair-guides/146-switch-matrix-theory-and-troubleshooting

And again, have you recently done any work on any of the switches?

#5 5 years ago

Sorry, I thought you wanted me to write the switch errors down for my self, which I did. Balls removed didn't change anything.

I wasn't working on the machine when this happened. It was random during a game session, been happening ever since. Thank you so much for your help. Starting to lose my mind over thus problem.

#6 5 years ago

These are the switches the double trigger together with each test, 16/17, 26/27, F1/F2/F6, F3/F4/F8, 66/67, 46/47, 31/41.

#7 5 years ago

I just had this problem with my TZ. First look for anything that maybe shorting any of the switches that double close. That means lamp sockets, leaf switches, micro switches, and all switch wires. If you can not find a physical short turn the game off, remove connectors j206 and 209 and power up the game again. After boot up check voltage on every slot on the female side of both connectors. there should be no voltage (or very low varying voltage) on any wire from either connector. If you read full voltage on any wire follow this link to finish trouble shooting
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Switch_Matrix_Problems
This post may help as well
http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/new-mpu-replacement-precautions
If your problem is anything like mine the main issue is your MPU has crapped itself for some reason, follow the WIKI, then decide if you can replace the U20 yourself, buy a replacement board, or have it repaired by a pro.
Good luck

#8 5 years ago

Buffalo, thank you so much. I really hope this is a simple fix. Gonna give it another go around tomorrow.

#9 5 years ago

You are welcome. Don't give up! I'm not familiar with TOTAN, but these type of problems are universal with most SS pins. from watching your video i think that you have the same problem I had. I recommend you build your own test jumper from a spare .156 IDC conector. Just cut it down to a single pin and punch down a wire into it. This way you have a simple jumper to test each pin with without having to worry about touching two different pins together at the same time. If you need more clarification I can post a picture of what I mean later.
JLB

#10 5 years ago

Since several of your phantom switches involve optos, I'd check to be sure your issues aren't being caused by your 7 opto switch board under the playfield. If an LM339 chip has failed (U1 & U2) it will cause wacky switch issues and can cause phantom closures. To see if that is the problem, unplug the power connector to that board and retest your non opto switches (16, 26, 36, 46, & 66). If those no longer have a phantom closure, the issue is one of the LM339 chips on the 7 Opto Switch board. From what I understand those chips are hard or next to impossible to test, so just replace them both. They are cheap. Use sockets if you replace them. I am curious if switch 36 (left cage opto) also causes a phantom closure, as well as switch 56 (lamp spin). It appears your entire row 6 is affected. Switch 32 is also an opto and you report it is phantom closing switch 41, so I wouldn't be surprised if the issue is a LM339 on that 7 Opto Switch board under your playfield.

If unplugging that board doesn't affect the problem, next go check every switch in row 6. You mentioned that you replaced a broken diode on a switch. Was it a switch on row 6 and did you put the diode on the correct way? The non banded side goes to the switch wires on the outer leg. If you did install it correctly and all the switches look ok, time to get out your meter and test the diodes on the switches in row 6. To test the diodes while installed on the micro switch, first TURN OFF the machine so you don't accidentally short something. Disconnect the center lug wires (should be a quick connect). Put your meter on diode test and put your black lead on the banded side of the diode, red lead goes on the non banded side. Activate the switch and you should get a reading of .4 to .6 volts. Any other reading and the diode is no good and needs to be replaced. Be sure to install them correctly. Swap the leads and keep the switch activated and you should get no reading. Check all the diodes on row 6. The lamp spin switch 56 is a leaf switch. You don't need to disconnect any wires or activate a leaf switch to test the diode. A shorted diode can cause an issue on an entire row or column.

Try that and report back with your findings.

#11 5 years ago

You guys are great. I'll report back my results a bit later today. I'm really excited to know that I still have lots of options left to fix this. I think I will make some progress today thanks to everyones' excellent advice. I can't thank you enough.

Big, the diode I replaced was on skill shot 3, and I made sure the band was facing the right direction. I thought for sure that would fix all of the problems, but it just fixed the one switch. Still, one problem down though so that's good.

#12 5 years ago

The Totan I had was the single most unreliable machine I ever bought (routed to death). I too had phantom switch closures (amongst many other issues) which, in my case, were caused by a faulty LM339 at U1 on the 7 opto board under the PF.

Big70 is bang on with his advice. Hope you get it sorted.

#13 5 years ago

Tried my 7 opto board from ToM, same issues, so I know it's not that.

I could try my MPU board from Scared Stiff. Would I just need to swap the 2 scared stiff chips out with TOTAN chips? Bad idea?

#14 5 years ago

Checking diodes on it, they are generally reading 200.0, even the ones I replaced not even 30 minutes ago. When I measure opposite sides of the diode they show no reading.

#15 5 years ago

Tried the U20 chip swap from my Scared Stiff, didn't help.

Would it be ok to attempt a MPU swap using my Scared Stiff board?

#16 5 years ago

They look swappable.

image.jpg
#17 5 years ago

hope this will help. heres a pic of what my switch test screen looks like. coindoor open.i see row3 lit in vid but you my have the balls out. !cid__1013131233 totan test-970.jpg

#18 5 years ago

Thanks big law. Yep I have all 4 balls out on my vid.

Can anyone please let me know if it's safe to try the mpu swap? Just kinda waiting for the go ahead.

#19 5 years ago
Quoted from rockotaco1:

These are the switches the double trigger together with each test, 16/17, 26/27, F1/F2/F6, F3/F4/F8, 66/67, 46/47, 31/41

I think you may have a couple of problems. First, notice the pattern between row 6 and row 7. So when you close switch 16, both 16 and 17 indicate closed. Does this also happen in the other direction. If you close switch 17, what happens?

The left cage opto and right cage opto are on those rows. Not that familiar with the game, but when you swapped out the 7 opto board, does that board control those two optos?

With the game off and both the row and column connectors removed, test for a short between the row 6 wire and the row 7 wire (at the switch, not at the board).

The procedure I referenced earlier will allow you to test the board without replacing it. I would do that first. If you have questions about the procedure (again it's for WPC, but the theory is the same), just post here.

#20 5 years ago

Anyone with a TOTAN know if it's okay for both of the lamp spin switches to be closed (on the bottom right)?

They don't show closed on the bottom pic. A closed (normally open) switch will give you symptoms exactly like that.

#21 5 years ago

A-20119, A-21377 and A-21369 where used on WPC-95 games and should be interchangable between all games. Label all the connectors and make sure you don't get one offset by a pin when re-installing.

#22 5 years ago

Thank you terry and fish. Heading back down to try again!

#23 5 years ago
Quoted from rockotaco1:

Thank you terry and fish. Heading back down to try again!

Carefully rotate the lamp while in switch test to make sure both of those switches open, like it shows in the bottom pic. Bottom right two closed switches in your pic.

#24 5 years ago
Quoted from phishrace:

You still have two switches closed that shouldn't be closed. Those are likely causing your problems. If you look at the pic you posted and the pic below, Lamp Spin CCW and Lamp Spin CW switches are showing closed when they should be open. Bottom right two closed switches.

This is the comment that fixed it all. THANK YOU!!

One of the wires was barely touching a part of metal, shorting it out. I looked at every single possible switch BUT that one apparently. Amazing how something so simple can be such an easy fix.

What a relief. Thank you all so much!

#25 5 years ago

congrats now you can enjoy once again.

#26 5 years ago
Quoted from rockotaco1:

This is the comment that fixed it all. THANK YOU!!

You're welcome, lol. I edited that post because I wasn't sure after I posted it. Glad you got it working.

#27 5 years ago

What a massive relief. Such a simple stupid problem lmao.

#28 5 years ago

Great thread! This is what makes Pinside awesome.

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