(Topic ID: 224470)

TOTAN Ramp magnet coil in test fires Ramp diverter & flashers pulse

By arqpuebla

3 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 5 posts
  • 2 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by arqpuebla
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 3 years ago

Good day great community.

I have a very Odd symptom. Got this totan, and I'm finishing repairing it. And I need some help with this problem.

On solenoid test, IF I test solenoid #8 "Ramp Magnet Coil" It fires solenoid #21 Ramp diverter (fire and release, fire and release) .And flashers #16 I can see them make some pulsing, I mean they flash about 5 times.

What I tried.
IF I test solenoid #21 It works ok.
Unplugged J113 which controls flashers #16 and same symptoms, they pulse, even If I open the coin door after testing solenoid #8.
Chequed flashers #16 sockets and seems ok.
checked schematics solenoids #21 and #8 are controlled by different ICs. on the PDB, U5 for #21 and U7 for #8.

Background.
MPU had a little acid damaged that was neutralized like TerryB recommends, And changed U5, c1, r90, d25, r4, r94, r120.
PDB changed Q26 and Its associated pre-transistor, because Coil #21 burned, and was installed a tip122 on Q26.

Next , I was thinking to check continuity for the flashers #16 , coils 21 and 8 to the connectors, and continuity checks between them, and with ground.
Maybe will try with another PDB.

I saw a post https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/totan-fireball-mystery that had the same symptom, but I don't a blown fuse problem.

Will apreciate any help!. thank you

#2 3 years ago

Hmmm I do have f104 blown.

But its strange, f104 controls solenoids 9 to 16.

I tested each of those coils (9 to 16) and are working.

#3 3 years ago

Well, Did some diging.

F104 must use a 6amp fuse, because the magnet has peaks of 10amp.
And when f104 blows, its normal that coil #8 fires.

Found this interesting article.

Fuse F104 investigation
After playing our first few games on the newly restored machine, F104 blows as soon as the ball passes the magnet ramp (when the magnet is energized). This fuse does not blow in test mode. In investigating this problem on RGP, I found some interesting questions being raised about this fuse. They were:
What is the proper part to use for F104? Depending on where you look, it can be specified as a 2.5 Amp SB (slow-blow), 4 Amp FB (fast-blow), or 4 Amp SB. The fuse I was using was a 4 Amp FB.
When F104 is blown, and the Ramp Magnet (Solenoidis tested, it is the Ramp Diverter (Solenoid 21) that fires! Why is that?
When F104 is blown, and you disconnect the Ramp Magnet, when the Ramp Diverter is activated, it stays pulled in. Why?
Here are the results of my investigation:

Question 1: What is the proper size for F104? Answer: Using a clip-on DC current probe, the current pulse (in test mode) through the ramp magnet is shown below.

Current trace through the Ramp Magnet (Solenoidin test mode.
Note peak current of about 10 Amps, and the
ripple of the full-wave rectified 60 Hz line power.

Looking at the blow curve of fast blow fuses, and slow blow fuses we can understand how long the fuse will sustain this 10 Amp current. The data is summarized in the table below.

Type of Fuse
Average Blow Time @ 10 Amps (sec)
4 Amp SB
4
4 Amp FB
0.2
5 Amp FB
0.4
6 Amp FB
0.8

I would prefer to use a fast blow fuse if possible. That sentiment is shared by Martin Reynolds, another RGP member with electronics experience. After trying a 5 Amp FB (which was not successful), I installed a 6 Amp FB. After a few games, I realize that the Ramp Magnet is energized for as long as 2-3 seconds (!). It remains to be seen if the FB fuse will survive. Updates to come in the weeks ahead.

Question 2: Why does Solenoid 21 fire when F104 is blown? Answer: The schematic below was obtained by tracing the wiring in the machine and consulting the schematics of a WPC-95 machine. Note that the protection diode D41 is not directly connected to +50V, but is connected via F104 (!). When this fuse is blown, and the Ramp Magnet is activated, the two Solenoids are put in series and connected to +50V. This is the reason why Solenoid 21 fires when F104 is blown. The current path in this case is marked by the dotted line.

Current path when F104 is blown and the Ramp Magnet is activated. It causes the Ramp Diverter to pull in.

Question 3: Why does Solenoid 21 stay pulled in when the Ramp Magnet has been disconnected? Answer: Note that in the circuit above, that the coil collapse current is passed through the ramp magnet. If this magnet is disconnected, a potentially very large voltage can be created at the anode of D41. This may cause damage to Q26, and is probably why S21 stays energized if it is pulsed when S8 is missing.

5 months later
#4 2 years ago

Thank you for documenting this. Working on TOTAN with same issue. Can you provide an update is a 6 amp fast blow fuse the long term solution.

3 months later
#5 2 years ago
Quoted from dzrossi:

Thank you for documenting this. Working on TOTAN with same issue. Can you provide an update is a 6 amp fast blow fuse the long term solution.

Yes!! Still running with 0 issues.sorryfor the delay commenting this post. And glad that helps you!

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