Rio Rancho, NM
Hoping to document my journey swapping out to a CPR gold playfield. But much of what I’m hoping is for insights and support from the experts.
(Topic ID: 234742)
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Tales of the Arabian Nights
Williams, 1996
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I’ve already removed everything and in the process of reassembling. Today I’m tackling the posts on the upper playfield.
I’ve run across my first challenge with these posts.
They don’t easily screw in. Assuming they should be flush with the pf, any insights into how best to get these in?
Scared shitless to use a drill 
82273491-4D9C-468F-A5C8-63580B3F68F1 (resized).jpegI have always found a bit just a little smaller and put in the whole and trim around the hole in slow speed and seems to work well and use wood new drill bits.
or some times to can tab but can cause a crack in clear if not careful. However, I use the first method all the time and works well. trim a little then see if it slides in and then try again until it fits nicely.
HEP covers it in this:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/hep-totan-build
He has detail about each and every type of post and how he installs it.
Quoted from wdpvideo:I have always found a bit just a little smaller and put in the whole and trim around the hole in slow speed and seems to work well and use wood new drill bits.
or some times to can tab but can cause a crack in clear if not careful. However, I use the first method all the time and works well. trim a little then see if it slides in and then try again until it fits nicely.
You are the best for taking the time to share. Can I hit you up for more tips of this nature?!
This weekend I'm going to try the drilling- still a wee bit frightened but I'm going to take the plunge. Will update my progress.
My next question is about these slingshot switches- from what I can tell from the manual, this switch on the left is the correct one however there is not a metal bracket like the one on the right. Is it possible I have the wrong switch or is there a technique for removing this bracket?
#mydumbquestions
IMG_5585 (resized).JPGQuoted from pintechev:Drill out the rivets and replace with new rivers or small screws/nuts
so much drilling! i'll be a pro by the end of this (hopefully I'll also have a working game)
Heres the proper ones ... or, as stated, you can use the brackets off your old ones.
rd
https://www.pinballlife.com/williamsbally-set-of-slingshot-switches-with-brackets.html
Quoted from pintechev:HEP covers it in this:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/hep-totan-build
He has detail about each and every type of post and how he installs it.
Post of the week for certain- spent a good hour reading through this post- SO helpful. thank you for mentioning it. That post technique is absolutely awesome and worked like a charm.
Quoted from Tmezel:Thanks to everyone helping. It allows me to sit in the corner and drink beer.
This is not a revelation. 
And downvoted by the Mrs!
Bruuuuutal! Lol!
rd
Quoted from rotordave:This is not a revelation.
And downvoted by the Mrs!
Bruuuuutal! Lol!
rd
I cant upvote on my own posts to help me out. Come on!
Quoted from mrs_mezelmods:Post of the week for certain- spent a good hour reading through this post- SO helpful. thank you for mentioning it. That post technique is absolutely awesome and worked like a charm.
Glad to help. Good luck with the rest of the work. Great game and worth the time!
1 week later
Was excited to make progress yesterday but had two steps forward, one back.
Two challenges- pulled out the bench buffer and don’t really know how to use it. Used an 80 grit sanding ball on the drill with these parts (showing with and without). They are noticeably better but is this as good as I should expect? Should I finish these with the buffer?
Second, I broke off a post in the playfield- no clue what to do. It’s a screw, not a through post . Any tips would be appreciated.
3625D26E-9F8F-400E-BE77-5B0C87BC726D (resized).jpeg3B1FF101-7EFE-4D5E-994B-112D2434779B (resized).jpegD22E9E7F-51B2-4C80-BAB5-62CF316AAA03 (resized).jpegYou should be able to remove all marks on the ball guides unless it’s a dug in groove. The finish comes with the progressive higher grit passes.
Yep, good start on the ball guides.
Keep going till they are nice and smooth.
Then I use a metal polishing kit in my drill press and polish them up nice and shiny.
Like this one:
https://m.harborfreight.com/14-piece-aluminum-polishing-kit-98707.html
rd
Ok, so the consensus is to keep on rolling with the ball guides. Stay with the 80 grit then- what say you all. It is looking really great and want to continue without wrecking it.
No luck yet on the broken post- tried vice grips but can't get a bite. Tomorrow will ask our machine shop neighbors for input.
One more question- then I'll have more photos of my 'progress so far' - its slow and steady, not like Rotor Dave is so fast- but that's ok, I'm learning.
Should these orbits be coated so they don't get that ball groove? Thought I read somewhere about that as an approach but can't remember.
Quoted from mrs_mezelmods:One more question- then I'll have more photos of my 'progress so far' - its slow and steady, not like Rotor Dave is so fast- but that's ok, I'm learning.
Should these orbits be coated so they don't get that ball groove? Thought I read somewhere about that as an approach but can't remember.
Don't coat them. They will get ball grooves slowly and that's just fine. The ones you're cleaning now took 20 years
Quoted from mrs_mezelmods:Ok, so the consensus is to keep on rolling with the ball guides. Stay with the 80 grit then- what say you all. It is looking really great and want to continue without wrecking it.
No luck yet on the broken post- tried vice grips but can't get a bite. Tomorrow will ask our machine shop neighbors for input.
Sorry about your broken post. Maybe High_End_Pins has a good solution.
On the post.
It looks like it is this one. image (resized).jpg
There are a couple ways to handle it
The easiest would be to drill a new pilot hole directly in front of the broken one and install the post.
In front is the best choice because it will cover or at least mask the old broken one and likely have no real impact on game play in that location.
Going behind could creat a ball trap on the target.
Trying to extract it would likely do more harm than good if you are not well practiced.
Here is a crude example of what I propose. Get as close as you can to the broken post but not so close that you would run into it with the new screw once placed. Just a sliver apart
No guarantees of course but it is what I would do in this circumstance if extraction isn’t ideal.
image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpgQuoted from mrs_mezelmods:not like Rotor Dave is so fast
Ive been doing it for a long time though.
My process these days - I won’t start anything unless I have 2-3 clear days. Then I smash it all out in one go. If I discover I need parts that I haven’t got (it takes 3-4 weeks for parts to come to NZ) then I’ll get it 99% as finished as I can and add the parts as soon as they come.
That’s the best advise I can give to anyone - do the whole job, start to finish in one go, while it’s all fresh in your mind. Over a weekend for example. It takes commitment, and some long days, but it’s the only way to go IMO.
rd
Quoted from High_End_Pins:On the post.
It looks like it is this one. [quoted image]
There are a couple ways to handle it
The easiest would be to drill a new pilot hole directly in front of the broken one and install the post.
In front is the best choice because it will cover or at least mask the old broken one and likely have no real impact on game play in that location.
Going behind could create a ball trap on the target.
Trying to extract it would likely do more harm than good if you are not well practiced.
Here is a crude example of what I propose. Get as close as you can to the broken post but not so close that you would run into it with the new screw once placed. Just a sliver apart
No guarantees of course but it is what I would do in this circumstance if extraction isn’t ideal.
[quoted image][quoted image]
Wow, many thanks to you for the suggestion and the candor. I'm clearly not practiced enough to do a more elaborate fix- thankfully this isn't a piece where the exact placement is critical.
And a huge thanks for all you've done documenting your restorations- I've utilized several of your photos and suggestions with great success, learning the gaps in my own skill and also documentation. I'm gushing with admiration and appreciation 
Wire ball guides all installed, except for the two near the trough- they need to be replaced or reformed.
Buffed all the stainless ball guides- sounds like I'll be picking up that polishing kit @rotordave. Hoping Harbor Freight has parts for using that kit on Tmezel workbench buffer (I unboxed it for him today after 2 years).
Next weekend my goal will be to install all those guides- and maybe the pops. #turtle #slowandsteadywins #juniorwoodchuck
IMG_5749 (resized).JPGIMG_5750 (resized).JPGSuggestion: you don’t need that playfield protector. In home use, that game will stay clean and perfect.
Quoted from pintechev:Suggestion: you don’t need that playfield protector. In home use, that game will stay clean and perfect.
Well- this won't be an HUO (good news and bad news I suppose). We run a small arcade- 505 Pinball- and have seen our share of wear and tear on the collection. Really want to keep this one in good shape! I went back and forth given advice on both sides of the protector vs. not. Because we are going to be carrying a similar product in our webshop, I thought this would be a great test case for the product in an arcade environment.
You’re making good forward progress! The broken post issue is super annoying. I’ve had some success with drilling small holes next to hole to get pliers in to remove. You may have to glue in some skewers or toothpicks in after, but with a new screw and maybe a washer underneath, it will be good as new.
I like the protectors. And despite even home use, some of the new playfields chip in short time. I’ve seen personally this way more than I wish.
Quoted from mrs_mezelmods:Well- this won't be an HUO (good news and bad news I suppose). We run a small arcade- 505 Pinball- and have seen our share of wear and tear on the collection. Really want to keep this one in good shape! I went back and forth given advice on both sides of the protector vs. not. Because we are going to be carrying a similar product in our webshop, I thought this would be a great test case for the product in an arcade environment.
In that case, that makes a ton of sense. Good luck with the rest of the work - it's going to be great when completed.
finished polishing all the brushed parts this weekend and mounted a few to the playfield. Ran into a bit of a snag with two of the t-nuts which mount on the playfield side. Pulled out the originals from the old playfield and they are coated (inside and out with what looks like clear coat). Would like to replace them however can't seem to sort out what size they are or what they are used for.
It also seems like its time for me to put the back panel on as several pieces cannot be completely installed without it in place. Any tips on how to have this in place and still use my rotisserie?
Sorry for all the dumb questions.
UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_2576 (resized).jpgUNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_2577 (resized).jpgUNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_2579 (resized).jpgUNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_257b (resized).jpgT nuts are really more about thread than anything, so put bolts through them and see to be sure what size they are. Pretty sure things mount under the PF and attach through the T Nuts.
As for the back panel, it’s tricky, but you can clamp just in front of the back panel and have it still work. Sometimes you need a clamp with a wide enough mouth, etc.
Quoted from EEE:I’m glad to see that you’re finally getting to this project.
Me too- was organizing photos this morning and I started this almost 3 years ago! I know so much more now than I did that is for certain.
Anxious now to get done. If only repairs to the games in the arcade would stop getting in the way.
There are generally just two sizes of T-nuts used in the PFs... a #6 size and #8 if memory serves.
For the rotise... sometimes parts are just blocked by your clamps and you defer those pieces until its off the rotisserie - the back panel included. Sometimes it helps just to take the PF off and put on table then put back on. Some people use wood extensions bolted onto their angle iron to make the lip bigger so they can clamp the PF further away from the edge of the PF. Every PF is different.. usually there are mechs in the way, etc. You just gotta do what works for that particular PF.
Mrs Mezel, just checked (and I’d still double check as who knows what may have changed over production runs), but looks like there is 28 8-32 T nuts used in TOTAN. I’d get yourself equal amount of new 6-32 as well as they get used a lot. Once you have this under your belt you will likely do more. I stopped reusing T nuts for the most part due to the clear and other issues I’ve had.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/totan-playfield-swap-with-new-cpr-gold#post-3301558
I just saw this post and am wondering if you ever got that post out? I have a screw extractor set that should do the job. LMK - Jacob
Quoted from dmacy:Mrs Mezel, just checked (and I’d still double check as who knows what may have changed over production runs), but looks like there is 28 8-32 T nuts used in TOTAN. I’d get yourself equal amount of new 6-32 as well as they get used a lot. Once you have this under your belt you will likely do more. I stopped reusing T nuts for the most part due to the clear and other issues I’ve had.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/totan-playfield-swap-with-new-cpr-gold#post-3301558
So far all the t-nuts in this game have been the same size- I learned my lesson on this when we were reassembling that donated Earthshaker a while back- found out the hard way that the game had two sizes after some of the posts wouldn't fit the smaller 6-32 size.
For this one I did buy new and pulled these two out just to be sure they were the same size- its still not obvious to me as I can't get anything inside of it to test.
What I really can't tell is what the heck goes in these two nuts!! I think it might be where the rails for standing the playfield up attach. Going to check that out (if customers can leave me alone a little this week) and hopefully, that solves the mystery.
Quoted from Jahkub:I just saw this post and am wondering if you ever got that post out? I have a screw extractor set that should do the job. LMK - Jacob
This could be really handy! WE haven't tackled that post yet- maybe I can borrow it from you? I'll send you a FB message to coordinate
Quoted from mrs_mezelmods:So far all the t-nuts in this game have been the same size- I learned my lesson on this when we were reassembling that donated Earthshaker a while back- found out the hard way that the game had two sizes after some of the posts wouldn't fit the smaller 6-32 size.
For this one I did buy new and pulled these two out just to be sure they were the same size- its still not obvious to me as I can't get anything inside of it to test.
What I really can't tell is what the heck goes in these two nuts!! I think it might be where the rails for standing the playfield up attach. Going to check that out (if customers can leave me alone a little this week) and hopefully, that solves the mystery.
Yes, pretty sure that's exactly what those are for. It's funny how we don't realize where the go since they're usually hidden by ramps and plastics. But pretty sure you're right on them.
Quoted from mrs_mezelmods:I started this almost 3 years ago!
Oh my! 
1 week later
Oh and what is the best technique for these dumb pop bumper lamp socket wires.
Just shoot me and put me out of my misery.
Quoted from mrs_mezelmods:I feel like quitting today. Feeling incompetent, incapable and frustrated . Pretty sure I’m going to personally discover everything that can go wrong.
What in the hell do I do with this now? How do I install these going forward?[quoted image]
You won’t really see that anyway
I’d countersink the underside of those before pounding them through
Great trick for those is to install them lightly enough so that the threads just pole out of the underside of the playfield. Then get a nut and nut driver and slowly draw the pop bumper nail down by tightening the nut.
Stops you from having to hammer, etc.
If the holes are too small and you hammer the screws in, the wood can split like that. Jay is right that you won’t see it once done.
Quoted from mrs_mezelmods:Oh and what is the best technique for these dumb pop bumper lamp socket wires.
Just shoot me and put me out of my misery.
What sockets? Bare flat wire or braided/insulated.
Marc
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