(Topic ID: 264704)

TOTAN no DMD, won't start a game

By bosticsp

4 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

Knipsel (resized).JPG
20200322_153457 (resized).jpg
20200322_153440 (resized).jpg
20200322_153419 (resized).jpg
20200322_153401 (resized).jpg
20200322_152517 (resized).jpg
#1 4 years ago

My Tales of the Arabian Nights has a blank DMD and will not start a game. CPU LEDs look good (top off, middle flashing fast, bottom on), AV board LED slowly blinking, heard the one bong when I powered it up. Machine doesn't respond to Start Game, but it goes into attract mode with the playfield lights after about 5 minutes. I replaced my power driver board with a Rottendog, but that didn't help. All the LEDs on the driver board are on. I tried reseating all the connections. I pulled all the ribbon cables and tested continuity on each pin. I'm not sure what to try next. Any suggestions are appreciated.

#2 4 years ago

Welcome to Pinside.

Has the game ever worked? Any work been done to the game recently?
Pinwiki is a good place to start. https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Display_problems
Double-check all cables.

My suspicion is you have a boot problem. If it were just a display issue you could still start a game if balls were in it.

#3 4 years ago

Yes, it worked fine for a few years, then it started having an issue where suddenly during a game, it would go dark and then reboot. It only happened once every 10 games or so, so I just lived with it. Then I decided to replace my incandescents with LEDs. I started with just the GI strings in the back box. After doing this, the back box looked great, but the DMD was kind of freaking out, then it went solid on. After power cycling, it was blank. (I am trying to recall this from about a year ago, so I am not totally sure of the exact order of the failures.) I thought it might be a power driver board issue (without any real evidence other than it looked burnt in a few places), so I ordered a Rottendog one and installed it, hoping for the best. No such luck. So I gave up for awhile. Given the recent quarantining, I decided to take another stab at it. Like I mentioned earlier, I reseated all the connections, I checked the ribbon cables for continuity, I checked the voltages coming into the DMD. Everything checked out. What I did find this morning was the ground mesh cable from the playfield was barely hanging on with a broken connector ring. I soldered on a new ring and reconnected to the strap in the back box, still same symptoms. So that's where I stand right now. Oh, I had also replaced the CPU with a newer version, but I swapped it back to cut down on the variables (too many already). I made sure it was seated correctly with no bent pins.

#4 4 years ago

When you replaced the power driver board your game likely did a factory reset which is why you heard the one boop. I bet if you put coins in the game would start. As for the DMD, double and triple check that the ribbon cables are not only tightly connected, but that they’re facing the correct direction, if you have it backwards the DMD won’t work.

#5 4 years ago

If you could post a photo or two of the boards that might be helpful. Especially where the ribbon cables are connected. And the battery holder area as well. Be sure they are well lit and focused so other eyes can check them closely for anything that looks out of place.

#6 4 years ago

Yes, you are right. I put in two quarters and the Start button came on. I hit Start and it fed me a ball. I shot the ball. No sound, no flippers. It fed me another ball when it drained. I'll get to work on those pics so you can see if I plugged the cables back in the correct orientation.

#7 4 years ago

I didn't mention it, but the DMD was still blank. I had to tilt each ball to finally get the game to end, but then I matched and the knocker activated. Then the flashers started working. I hadn't seen those in awhile. I guess that was the end of game sequence. But still no DMD, sound, or flippers. Here are some pics of the boards. Let me know if you want better shots of any areas. Thanks for taking the time to assist me.

20200322_152517 (resized).jpg20200322_152517 (resized).jpg20200322_153401 (resized).jpg20200322_153401 (resized).jpg20200322_153419 (resized).jpg20200322_153419 (resized).jpg20200322_153440 (resized).jpg20200322_153440 (resized).jpg20200322_153457 (resized).jpg20200322_153457 (resized).jpg
#8 4 years ago

Try rotating the cable at J102 on the driver board, I’m not 100%, if I’m wrong, no damage will occur it just won’t work. If this doesn’t solve, flip it back.
The side with a red strip should be on Pin 1 on all locations (there should be a 1 next to the pin)

#9 4 years ago

A small suggestion:
Cover the windows on the Eproms. This might avoid erasing due to light.
I know it is dark inside the top cabinet, but better be save than sorry.

#10 4 years ago

I will take both of those suggestions, but first, the symptoms have changed. Yesterday, after I used coins to go through a game, I left the machine on for a few hours, then powered it off. Just for kicks, I powered it back on and it blew the fuse in the universal power assembly. Now it does that every time. Here is a play by play of what it does now. Power on, I see the CPU LEDs got to (top off, middle fast blink, bottom on), the AV board LED comes on, I hear the single bong, the flippers activate and hold, the playfield GI comes on for less than a second, then poof, the fuse blows.

The fuse is a 5A/250V. Is that correct? Looking at page 2-29 of my Operations Manual, it makes me think the fuse should be an 8A.

#11 4 years ago

I don’t own this game nor have I worked on one but most WPC are pretty similar guts wise, does this game have EOS switches for the flippers or flipper opto boards?

#12 4 years ago
Quoted from Jmckune:

does this game have EOS switches for the flippers or flipper opto boards?

Yes it has both EOS switches normally open and flipper button opto boards.

LTG : )

#13 4 years ago

So, I should check those switches and make sure they close when the flippers are activated? Can I just test that by moving them by hand? And if anyone knows the answer to my fuse question from above, let me know. Thanks.

#14 4 years ago

I don’t think your problem is the EOS switches on the flippers. Those are normally open which mean that in their normal state or “off” position, there is a gap. When the button is pushed the gap closes and causes them to energize and flip. If anything, I’d check to make sure there is a gap but I don’t think that’s what’s going on.

#15 4 years ago

About the 5amp slo-blo fuse it seems correct according to the manual.Is that fuse blown/blowing?

#16 4 years ago

What i might suggest is to disconnect all cables to switches, lamps etc...
Keep only flatcables and power to the boards connected.
Power on and see what happens. Then reconnect cables 1 by 1 and check what happens.

#17 4 years ago

With the flipper coils activating and locking at start up, this almost sounds like a transistor issue which is what I would go to if it were the original board. But with it being a new board, this doesn’t make sense to me unless somehow the board is defective. Let me know if anything changes although we are reaching close to the end of what I’ve been able to teach myself about the electronics of these things in the year I’ve been messing with them.

#18 4 years ago
Quoted from Jmckune:

With the flipper coils activating and locking at start up, this almost sounds like a transistor issue which is what I would go to if it were the original board. But with it being a new board, this doesn’t make sense to me unless somehow the board is defective. Let me know if anything changes although we are reaching close to the end of what I’ve been able to teach myself about the electronics of these things in the year I’ve been messing with them.

This is why i suggest to disconnect all lamp, switch, etc... cables. If problem persists, then its a board issue. I figured that out on my board also. However mine is a Data East, but after all, it comes to the same results. I had a bad logic IC.

#19 4 years ago

Ok, I covered my EPROM windows, replaced my batteries, unplugged everything, replaced the line fuse, and started plugging things back in, one by one. At the end of all that, the machine works except no sound, no DMD. The flippers work, all the playfield gadgets, lights, flashers. I did hear the bong when the AV board came up. I pulled each AV EPROM one by one, and it bonged the number corresponding to each chip. So, I'm assuming it is happy with those EPROMs. So I'm thinking something may be bad on the AV board? What are my options at this point? Thanks for all the suggestions so far.

#20 4 years ago

Are there any loose pins on the connectors from that board? I don’t think the game could start if it was fully dead as all the EPROMs are on that board.

#21 4 years ago

No pins are loose. The board is not dead. It's LED is slowly blinking and it plays the single bong at startup. It just doesn't send any game sounds to the speakers, or any video to the DMD.

#22 4 years ago

Maybe someone else that knows more than I can offer something better. I might look at getting new sound Roms and see if that fixes the sound. We know it’s sending a signal to the speakers or I’m not sure the startup confirmation bong would work. Unless that sound comes from the CPU. Was the sound working before the issues came up?

Edit: also do you know anyone you could pull your DMD to test In another game to make sure it still functions so we can try to isolate that problem to either the DMD or the board?

#23 4 years ago

I would go over all the ribbon cables in the backbox and the ribbon going to the DMD. Remember those ribbon cables have to be placed in the correct way.If you look at the cable ribbon you will see a red stripe on one side of that ribbon.Then,on the boards you’ll see a number 1 and a number 2...The red side of the ribbon has to be placed on number 1 go over your ribbon cables and see if they are in the correct order.

#26 4 years ago

Any updates on this? I love we’ve been able to make a little progress but don’t want to leave you hanging!

#27 4 years ago

With power off, press on all the socketed chips on the MPU board.

#28 4 years ago

Here's the current situation. I bought a Rottendog AV board, installed it. Still no sound, no DMD. The LED501 was blinking slowly like it was happy. Voltages at the DMD are still checking out. Even though I checked every pin on the ribbon cables, I am replacing them. I didn't have enough ribbon cable around to get them all, so I still need to do the IO Extend and the DMD. But my hopes are not high. The only board I haven't replaced is the CPU/MPU, so maybe something is up with that. I will try pressing on all those chips, although I think I did that already.

But first, another problem. I swapped out the G11 chip for my 1.4 version one. Now it won't boot fully. Top and bottom lights are solid. I swapped back to old chip. Still won't boot. Is there a procedure I need to follow when swapping G11?

#29 4 years ago

No specific procedure, you should just be able to plug it straight into the socket.

Did the game stop booting up straight after you did this? If so I would make sure the ROM is not corrupted and that none of the pins are broken.

#30 4 years ago

Did you install it with the notch pointing to the top of the board?

#31 4 years ago

Yes, it stopped booting as soon as I installed the version 1.4 CPU ROM. And even if I put the old ROM back in, it still will not boot. The notch is lined up correctly and no pins are bent. I'm not sure how to test if the ROM is corrupted or not.

#32 4 years ago

Try unplugging the ribbon cables from the MPU. Does it boot now?

#33 4 years ago

I think I know what it is now. Because you changed the CPU or G11 ROM, you now have basically the generic factory settings loaded. Changing a CPU or G11 ROM or even a RAM is the same as having dead batteries. Since you cannot see your DMD, press the far left service button several times until the game resets. Then it should go into attract mode.

#34 4 years ago

OK, not sure abouth Williams but i think the Blanking LED should be flashing
or the DIAG led should be flashing, better check that out in the manual:

This info i have found:
D19 – Blanking,
D20 – Diagnostic
D21 – +5VDC

D19 – At game turn on, this should be on for appx 3 seconds, then should go out AND STAY OUT! This indicates that the blanking circuit is disabled and therefore the machine cannot energise solenoids etc.
D20 – After D19 has gone out, this should stay flashing permanently while the game is on. This indicates (when flashing continuously that the CPU is running)
D21 – This should always be on. This indicates that the 5VDC power is on the CPU board.

Knipsel (resized).JPGKnipsel (resized).JPG

#35 4 years ago

@Roverius, That is for WPC. WPC95 is different.

His MPU LED203 is blinking, though LED201 is off and should be on (original issue).

#36 4 years ago

Sorry for the delay in response. I haven't had a chance to try your latest suggestion regarding the service button. I should have some time later today to give it a try.

#37 4 years ago

Alright, I threw in the towel and bought a new MPU board with a new CPU ROM, U4, ASIC, and NVRAM. Swapped my security chip, installed it, and voila! Everything works again including sound and the DMD. So it was definitely something on the MPU board. I could start swapping chips to find out, but I don't really want to jack it up again. Is there a place I could send the board to have it tested and repaired? Then I would have a spare. Thanks everyone for your help!

#38 4 years ago

ChrisHibler will be happy to repair it for you and install NVRAM. The blanking signal definitely is an issue with this board. I think the issue is possibly with U5, but that is not normally socketed on the board.

#39 4 years ago
Quoted from bosticsp:

Is there a place I could send the board to have it tested and repaired?

@bosticsp, I'm happy to take care of that for you.
If you'd like to ship the board, see this link for the shipping form and instructions.
LMK.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
$ 16.00
Boards
Lermods
 
$ 36.95
Wanted
Machine - Wanted
Van Alstyne, TX
$ 399.00
Cabinet - Decals
Mircoplayfields
 
From: $ 9.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
 
From: $ 110.00
Playfield - Other
Arcade Upkeep
 
$ 89.99
Lighting - Led
Lighted Pinball Mods
 
$ 225.00
Cabinet - (Alt) Translites
FlyLand Designs
 
$ 84.99
$ 54.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lermods
 
$ 10.00
Playfield - Other
Nezzy's Pinball Prints
 
Wanted
Machine - Wanted
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
$ 119.99
$ 1,059.00
Flipper Parts
Mircoplayfields
 
From: $ 209.00
$ 9.95
11,000 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Seward, AK
$ 89.99
Lighting - Led
Lighted Pinball Mods
 
$ 27.50
Boards
Pinball Haus
 
$ 4.99
Playfield - Plastics
ULEKstore
 
Great pinball charity
Pinball Edu

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/totan-no-dmd-won-t-start-a-game and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.