(Topic ID: 193208)

TOTAN Ground Short Row 4

By TheLoungeKing

6 years ago


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20170722_221817 (resized).jpg
scope-u20.jpg
Col2 b.jpg
Col2 a.jpg
#1 6 years ago

I apologize for the newbie post. Our TOTAN that we've had for about 2.5 years has a ground short on row 4. It happened in the middle of playing a game. The game just rebooted in the middle of a game and came up with this fault.
We've figured out our previous machine issues, but I don't seen to be making progress with this one despite searching around online.
The ground fault does go away if I remove connector J212 on the CPU board or J3 of the coin door board.
I have checked the connections to the switches listed in the switch matrix for row 4 and I don't see anything touching ground. The exception being the ball through, which doesn't seem to have a white/yellow wire.
I've played with the multimeter, but I don't know that I've done anything terribly useful with it.
I guess I am hoping for a next step or two to further narrow down the issue. Am I right that a row 4 ground short means that the white/yellow wire or one of the switches it connects to is grounding somewhere? If I could at least be sure about that, it would be helpful so I can concentrate exclusively on those wires and switches.

Thanks for any help.

#2 6 years ago

Unhook the switches one at a time and see if you find it. A micro mini switch can be shorted internally that you can't see.

LTG : )

#3 6 years ago
Quoted from TheLoungeKing:

The ground fault does go away if I remove connector J212 on the CPU board or J3 of the coin door board.

Can you check the 'plumb bob' for a short to ground or disconnect J9 on the coindoor board to see if the short goes away.

#4 6 years ago

Disconnecting the plum bob doesn't make the ground short go away, nor does disconnecting any of the connectors on the coin door board, except for J3. I took the coin door board out and inspected it for damage, or burns, but it looks fine.
By "unhooking" the switches you mean de-solder them, right?

#5 6 years ago
Quoted from TheLoungeKing:

nor does disconnecting any of the connectors on the coin door board, except for J3.

Did you check if the error remained with the whole coin door disconnected ?

I ask to be sure. Easy to have a short inside the coin door harness you can't see.

LTG : )

#6 6 years ago

Another small test,

In switchtest T.1 you have a GND-short on Row4, but do you get a GND-short row2 when you close the coin-door during this test?

If so, there is possible a problem with U20 on the CPU-board or indeed a GND against a switch.

#7 6 years ago

Thanks for the responses.
So I tried disconnecting the coin door again, and it doesn't change anything.
I tried closing the coin door, and yes, I suddenly have a ground short on row 2 as well.

#8 6 years ago

Col2 a.jpgCol2 a.jpg
Col2 b.jpgCol2 b.jpg

So it looks like Column2 is no longer pulsing but is 'LOW' all the time.
Because sw#24 is always closed, it did activate all switches on row4.
And by closing the coindoor sw#22, all switches on row2 as well.

To find out this is a problem on CPU-board or Playfield, unplug J212,206,207,208,209.
Go into switchtest T.1 and put a wire from J207-2 to J209-1

If this results in an active single switch in display, the problem is very likely on playfield. Could be a switch against GND
If it gives a bar of 8 switches, likely U20 on CPU board needs to be replaced.

In case of a problem with U20, there is possible a cause on the playfield that damaged this chip.

#9 6 years ago

Thank you Zaza. When jumping J206-2 to J209-1 I get the whole row 1 grounded. I will buy a few U20 chips. Thanks for the help!

#10 6 years ago

New chip arrived today. I replaced it and there is no change. All switches are activating a whole row in the T1 test. Seems like one switch grounded would not cause this. Is this a board issue?

#11 6 years ago

Some possibilities.

-the new chip is already blown because the reason the original chip blew is not taken away.
-the pre-driver for U20 is also damaged. That's U23 74HC237

Check with a logic probe or oscilloscope the outputs of U23 (= same as inputs U20) , they should be pulsing.

#12 6 years ago

Mini oscilloscope should be delivered tomorrow so I can check it out. Thanks!

#13 6 years ago

nice !
With a scope on inputs and outputs, you'll see something like this :
scope-u20.jpgscope-u20.jpg

#14 6 years ago

I didn't realize the circuits were high voltage. The oscilloscope I got is low voltage. The readings were off the screen.
I put together a crude voltage divider and was able to get readable input. The chips were giving 50v, but the image below shows much lower voltage because of the voltage divider. The U23 and U20 outputs all look like the attached image. Just for camparison I tried the house 110v AC and got a similar dirty looking waveform. I tried the DC calibration point on the oscilloscope and got crisp square waveforms. I'm not sure what all this means.

20170722_221817 (resized).jpg20170722_221817 (resized).jpg

#15 6 years ago

If it is truly 50 Volts on U20, then you know for sure this IC is blown. The switch-matrix logic runs on 12V+5V and not 50V

(see post #11) Find the source of the problem, then repair the CPU and measure U20 without plugs on bottom of CPU-board.

1 month later
#16 6 years ago

I replaced U20 and U23. Switch matrix tested normally. Everything seemed fine. Started a game, and within a second of shooting the ball it reset. Then when it came back displayed:
Check fuses F101 and F109, J127 and opto 12V supply
I couldn't find any issues. Beat my head on it for a while. Took things apart. Put them back together, still had error. Decided to start a game and manually trigger playfield switches to see if one in particular blows things up and nothing broke. Played a whole game just fine. And the error disappeared. Seems fine, for now.

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