(Topic ID: 193420)

TOTAN Fireball Mystery

By TopMoose

6 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 4 posts
  • 2 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by arqpuebla
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FlashCircuit (resized).jpg
HighPowerCircuit (resized).jpg
SpecialCircuit (resized).jpg
SolinoidTable (resized).jpg
#1 6 years ago

Attention hive mind: I need some tech help with my TOTAN.

It started simply enough when I noticed during a game that the fireball magnet stopped grabbing the ball - the ball would just continue down the left ramp during the Fireball hurry-up. Self test confirmed this on the next start-up: "Fireball Magnet Broken."

I went into diagnostics and did a coil test and this is where things get weird. When I selected "Ramp Magnet" and closed the door, the ramp magnet did nothing, but the diverter coil to the right of the genie pulsed! The ramp diverter also pulsed when its own coil test was selected

When checking out the boards for physical signs of distress, I noticed that fuse 104 had blown. I replaced it and started the game, keeping an eye on the open backbox. Sure enough, as soon as the ball was sucked into the fireball magnet, fuse 104 blew again.

Next test: Under the playfield, I unpluged the connection to the ramp diverter coil. Then I installed a new fuse and started the game back up. No error message! The fireball magnet worked several times in a row! But, of course, the diverter did not. So it must be a problem with the diverter! I checked the manual and discovered that the wrong coil had been installed - Williams recommends an AE-30-2000, but a Black Beast 090-5015-00 was installed, with the diode cut out. Probably a bad coil.

I ordered a new AE-30-2000, installed it along a new fuse F104 and, sure enough, the fuse blew again as soon as the fireball magnet activated. Back in the coil test, I was getting the same result: the ramp diverter pulsed during the fireball magnet test as well as its own test. Right now, the diverter coil is plugged in but the fireball magnet is unplugged.

Electrical schematics make my eyes cross, but it appears that the fireball magnet and the ramp diverter coil are on two completely different circuits and shouldn't even be related. Any thoughts on what's happening? Any ideas about further tests? Any more specific information I can give?

#2 6 years ago

Looking at the manual, I see that the Ramp Magnet Coil (#8) is on the high power circuit and the Ramp Diverter (#21) is on a low power circuit - actually on the same circuit as most of the flash lamps.

SolinoidTable (resized).jpgSolinoidTable (resized).jpg

Here's the high power circuit that controls the magnet:

HighPowerCircuit (resized).jpgHighPowerCircuit (resized).jpg

And here's the flashlamp circuit that includes the diverter:

FlashCircuit (resized).jpgFlashCircuit (resized).jpg

HOWEVER, neither of these circuits involve fuse F104. That's found on the special (general purpose) circuit.

SpecialCircuit (resized).jpgSpecialCircuit (resized).jpg

Back on the solenoid chart at the top of this post, we can see that the special circuit controls four flash lamps at the very top of the playfield. My guess is that one of the lamps (probably one that fires at the same time as the magnet) is shorting something out. I'll test it this weekend.

#3 6 years ago

I started testing by removing the bulbs from the four Special Coil circuits. I plugged in the magnet and installed a new fuse and everything ran perfectly!

Next, I added one bulb back at a time, testing in between each one. Jet flashers: no problems. Ramp flasher: no problem. Top flasher: no problem. Must be the Start Tale flasher, right? Nope. I ended up with all four bulbs back and all the coils plugged in and the game ran fine. No fuses blown, no components failed. I'm calling this problem solved.

I guess it was just a matter of jiggling one of the wires while messing with the bulbs? We may never know.

1 year later
#4 5 years ago

Hello TopMoose !.
Got the exact same problem as you.
Its all about f104! if it blows, that strange thing happens with the diverter.

Found this interesting article, and after puting a 6amp fuse on f104, no more problems.

Cheers.

Fuse F104 investigation
After playing our first few games on the newly restored machine, F104 blows as soon as the ball passes the magnet ramp (when the magnet is energized). This fuse does not blow in test mode. In investigating this problem on RGP, I found some interesting questions being raised about this fuse. They were:
What is the proper part to use for F104? Depending on where you look, it can be specified as a 2.5 Amp SB (slow-blow), 4 Amp FB (fast-blow), or 4 Amp SB. The fuse I was using was a 4 Amp FB.
When F104 is blown, and the Ramp Magnet (Solenoidis tested, it is the Ramp Diverter (Solenoid 21) that fires! Why is that?
When F104 is blown, and you disconnect the Ramp Magnet, when the Ramp Diverter is activated, it stays pulled in. Why?
Here are the results of my investigation:

Question 1: What is the proper size for F104? Answer: Using a clip-on DC current probe, the current pulse (in test mode) through the ramp magnet is shown below.

Current trace through the Ramp Magnet (Solenoidin test mode.
Note peak current of about 10 Amps, and the
ripple of the full-wave rectified 60 Hz line power.

Looking at the blow curve of fast blow fuses, and slow blow fuses we can understand how long the fuse will sustain this 10 Amp current. The data is summarized in the table below.

Type of Fuse
Average Blow Time @ 10 Amps (sec)
4 Amp SB
4
4 Amp FB
0.2
5 Amp FB
0.4
6 Amp FB
0.8

I would prefer to use a fast blow fuse if possible. That sentiment is shared by Martin Reynolds, another RGP member with electronics experience. After trying a 5 Amp FB (which was not successful), I installed a 6 Amp FB. After a few games, I realize that the Ramp Magnet is energized for as long as 2-3 seconds (!). It remains to be seen if the FB fuse will survive. Updates to come in the weeks ahead.

Question 2: Why does Solenoid 21 fire when F104 is blown? Answer: The schematic below was obtained by tracing the wiring in the machine and consulting the schematics of a WPC-95 machine. Note that the protection diode D41 is not directly connected to +50V, but is connected via F104 (!). When this fuse is blown, and the Ramp Magnet is activated, the two Solenoids are put in series and connected to +50V. This is the reason why Solenoid 21 fires when F104 is blown. The current path in this case is marked by the dotted line.

Current path when F104 is blown and the Ramp Magnet is activated. It causes the Ramp Diverter to pull in.

Question 3: Why does Solenoid 21 stay pulled in when the Ramp Magnet has been disconnected? Answer: Note that in the circuit above, that the coil collapse current is passed through the ramp magnet. If this magnet is disconnected, a potentially very large voltage can be created at the anode of D41. This may cause damage to Q26, and is probably why S21 stays energized if it is pulsed when S8 is missing.

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