(Topic ID: 195784)

Total Nuclear Annihilation Club...Welcome to the future!


By Pinballlew

1 year ago



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There are 5232 posts in this topic. You are on page 82 of 105.
#4051 4 months ago
Quoted from Chosen_S:

Do you happen to have a stock number for them so I can walk right to them when I go to Lowe’s tomorrow?

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Hillman-2-Count-5-16-in-x-3-4-in-Neoprene-Standard-SAE-Fender-Washers/3012346

#4053 4 months ago
Quoted from Pinballocd:

Thanks for this. How many are you installing on the game and locations?

I am afraid to unscrew any posts that don't visibly have an issue.

Like was mentioned earlier - the ball doesn't contact the playfield area in question(what the washer is protecting)

#4054 4 months ago

I installed 8 myself. 3 on each sling shot and the two next to the center targets. I didn’t need to add onto all 3 slings but I figured that way everything would stay level as far as the sling shot plastics go.

If you go to the store for these, take note of the product numbers. These come in tiny bags inside a drawer at the store and could easily get mixed up with other sizes.

#4055 4 months ago

Or amazon link??

#4056 4 months ago
Quoted from AndHart120:

Here is what mine looks like with the neoprene rubber washers underneath.
[quoted image][quoted image]

That's awesome! I am picking these up today. Thanks for showing us this. This will help out a lot of TNA owners.

#4057 4 months ago
Quoted from HookedonPinonics:

That's awesome! I am picking these up today. Thanks for showing us this. This will help out a lot of TNA owners.

I went ahead and ordered a bunch on Lowes.com. Thanks again for the link. The wear by my scoop is really bad and has gotten worse. By the look of your pictures, the washer should cover the area and stop the playfield from wearing/chipping. I would suggest everyone who is having this issue pick these up now. They look nice as well!

#4058 4 months ago

3/4" PETG fender washer would probably do the trick too, unless it's too thick

https://www.pinballlife.com/clear-petg-fender-washers.html

#4059 4 months ago
Quoted from HookedonPinonics:

I went ahead and ordered a bunch on Lowes.com. Thanks again for the link. The wear by my scoop is really bad and has gotten worse. By the look of your pictures, the washer should cover the area and stop the playfield from wearing/chipping. I would suggest everyone who is having this issue pick these up now. They look nice as well!

Just ordered 12 to have on hand. Thanks!

#4060 4 months ago

Happy to see you guys like what I tried out. Hopefully it works out ok! I guess the jury is out if the neoprene/rubber will wear anything down at all itself but it definitely covers up anything that might already be there and it’s flexibility may help taking blows. I’d assume a soft rubber ring would do a lot less damage than sharp hard plastic!

#4061 4 months ago
Quoted from AndHart120:

Happy to see you guys like what I tried out. Hopefully it works out ok! I guess the jury is out if the neoprene/rubber will wear anything down at all itself but it definitely covers up anything that might already be there and it’s flexibility may help taking blows. I’d assume a soft rubber ring would do a lot less damage than sharp hard plastic!

Yeah, I started off with neoprene like you did. I then switched to nylon washers that are exactly the same size as the star post base, except for the post that doesn't cover all the damage. I left that with neoprene since the black doesn't stand out as much.

I would think both nylon and neoprene should prevent further damage but the rubber may be safer. Not sure.

#4062 4 months ago

I’m going to try these as I prefer clear.

amazon.com link »

#4064 4 months ago

Sometimes one of the orbit shots will light up pink seemingly randomly (before a reactor has been started at the scoop).

Is that truly random, or can it be triggered somehow?

#4065 4 months ago

Yep.

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#4066 4 months ago
Quoted from floyd1977:

Sometimes one of the orbit shots will light up pink seemingly randomly (before a reactor has been started at the scoop).
Is that truly random, or can it be triggered somehow?

When the ball goes down an inlane, the opposite orbit will light up. It doesn't stay lit for long - you *almost* have to send the ball through the orbit as it's leaving the inlane to get it in time, though I've managed to brick the shot and still get it up there with a second try occasionally.

#4067 4 months ago

Mine is supposed to be delivered today. I'm debating on just installing the neoprene washers immediately.

#4068 4 months ago
Quoted from atrainn:

Mine is supposed to be delivered today. I'm debating on just installing the neoprene washers immediately.

I would suggest it.

#4069 4 months ago
Quoted from aobrien5:

I would suggest it.

I'll go for it. Based on dimensions I think these clears would work as well: amazon.com link »

#4070 4 months ago
Quoted from atrainn:

Mine is supposed to be delivered today. I'm debating on just installing the neoprene washers immediately.

Nothing to debate, if you saw what my playfield looked like within a week and what it looks like now, you would cry....

#4071 4 months ago
Quoted from tomdotcom:

Nothing to debate, if you saw what my playfield looked like within a week and what it looks like now, you would cry....

Oh no :[. Mind posting pictures? Unless they're earlier in the thread somewhere and I missed it.

#4072 4 months ago
Quoted from atrainn:

Mine is supposed to be delivered today. I'm debating on just installing the neoprene washers immediately.

I would put something down to hold the playfield paint in place while you are unscrewing the posts. Be super careful.

I looked closely last night and it appears I only had 4 posts that had mylar around them. At least I only found 4 with residue left around them - 1 of which the paint has lifted up.

#4073 4 months ago
Quoted from Toads:

I had drop target 1 down error last night.
I removed all the balls.
I lifted the playfield up to the backbox( I usually put a towel or something across the top of the edge of the backbox)
I turned the machine on and went into switch test mode in the menu.
Now any switch I make, makes a noise and the screen tells you what switch was made.
Carefully push that drop darget 1 switch down with your finger, if the switch is ok it will make the noise.
You can check the others too.
Now does the switch make when the drop target drops?
With your finger on the top of the playfield push the drop target down.
Does it make a noise?
Mine did not make the noise.
You can push the target back up by pushing the rod in the coil up and back.
Now on your pic you see the two nuts holding the switch, one has a slot in it.
You can loosen the two nuts and adjust the switch to make when the drop target is down.
The slot is there to give you some adjustment on all the switches in the drops.(good thinking Scott)
I hope I have explained this easy for you to understand.

With the power off, the switches do click when I press them in. However, only 1 registers in switch test.

Spooky is sending me new switches so I am looking forward to getting this thing working as it should. I don't believe any springs were the cause of my drop target errors - just 2 switches.

#4074 4 months ago

It's strange that the playfield damage issue seems to be so common now. My game, #60, has seen a lot of play with no protection, and there is no visible damage.

#4075 4 months ago
Quoted from atrainn:

Oh no :[. Mind posting pictures? Unless they're earlier in the thread somewhere and I missed it.

It just looks like other pics that are posted here. Paint chips, missing art, multiple spots. At least 5 spots are missing art and chipped now, and you can see where its going to happen in other spots because the paint around the star posts is all bulged up. I'm gonna try these nylon washers, but the damage is done. Gonna need black ones I guess to cover it.

#4076 4 months ago

How much interest would there be in scoop protectors (similar to Cliffys)? My dad is a retired machinist and is going to take measurements on mine when he visits for Christmas so he can make me a set. I'd love recommendations for other areas that need protection as well.

#4077 4 months ago

I just cleaned and waxed mine again last night, and damn is she an evil b**ch freshly waxed. (I still love her

For the record, no playfield damage found, #95

#4078 4 months ago
Quoted from atrainn:

Mine is supposed to be delivered today. I'm debating on just installing the neoprene washers immediately.

Want to avoid all the problems everyone else is having? When you receive your game.....and I know this is going to be super tough.....don't play it. Wait a month. That's right, wait a month. The primary issue here, and I've confirmed this with Spooky, is that the playfields are clear coated only about 2-3 weeks prior to customer receipt. Playfields, regardless of who made them, should be allowed 6-8 weeks to cure, at minimum. That isn't the case here.

When you don't wait proper cure time, you get a playfield that scratches very easily, chips everywhere, and dimples where it otherwise would not. This is exacerbated by the fact that every manufacturer is using inferior clear coats these days. All of them. Compare a playfield clear coated with PPG/Omni with 1000 plays to one put out by JJP, CGC, Spooky, or Stern (though Stern's are by far ahead of the rest) and the same number of plays (or fewer!) and the difference is remarkable. Source: I did this.

#4079 4 months ago
Quoted from herg:It's strange that the playfield damage issue seems to be so common now. My game, #60, has seen a lot of play with no protection, and there is no visible damage.

Agree. I wonder what's changed in the PF manufacturing process?

I'm no expert but I'd expect the clear-coat to give a bit and not for the paint to release from the wood like that so completely. Or is it a more gradual process where the clear is chipped away and then the paint after it's let unprotected? Almost like the posts aren't secured tight enough to prevent movement from occurring.

#4080 4 months ago
Quoted from atrainn:

How much interest would there be in scoop protectors (similar to Cliffys)? My dad is a retired machinist and is going to take measurements on mine when he visits for Christmas so he can make me a set. I'd love recommendations for other areas that need protection as well.

I think you'd sell a lot of these. Cliffy currently isn't making these yet, so you'd be a primary source. I've had some chipping on the left side of my scoop, but overall not too bad yet. Would like to get something to prevent it from getting worse... but really want to make sure scoop doesn't become more difficult to hit than it already is. Who knows, maybe it would help if designed right. My scoop in Deadpool sucks the ball in every time I'm even close. Of course it's twice the distance as the TNA scoop, so the ball isn't moving at the lightning pace it is for TNA.

#4081 4 months ago
Quoted from mrgregb123:

Want to avoid all the problems everyone else is having? When you receive your game.....and I know this is going to be super tough.....don't play it. Wait a month. That's right, wait a month. The primary issue here, and I've confirmed this with Spooky, is that the playfields are clear coated only about 2-3 weeks prior to customer receipt. Playfields, regardless of who made them, should be allowed 6-8 weeks to cure, at minimum. That isn't the case here.
When you don't wait proper cure time, you get a playfield that scratches very easily, chips everywhere, and dimples where it otherwise would not. This is exacerbated by the fact that every manufacturer is using inferior clear coats these days. All of them. Compare a playfield clear coated with PPG/Omni with 1000 plays to one put out by JJP, CGC, Spooky, or Stern (though Stern's are by far ahead of the rest) and the same number of plays (or fewer!) and the difference is remarkable. Source: I did this.

I was wondering if it was a cure time issue with the clear. I can probably hold off on playing it for a few weeks in that case, though I'll reach out to them to see how long ago mine might have been cleared.

Quoted from Pinzap:

I think you'd sell a lot of these. Cliffy currently isn't making these yet, so you'd be a primary source. I've had some chipping on the left side of my scoop, but overall not too bad yet. Would like to get something to prevent it from getting worse... but really want to make sure scoop doesn't become more difficult to hit than it already is. Who knows, maybe it would help if designed right. My scoop in Deadpool sucks the ball in every time I'm even close. Of course it's twice the distance as the TNA scoop, so the ball isn't moving at the lightning pace it is for TNA.

Good to know. I'll let everyone know how that goes then. I'm sure there are other areas I'll discover need protectors by then too.

#4082 4 months ago
Quoted from atrainn:

How much interest would there be in scoop protectors (similar to Cliffys)? My dad is a retired machinist and is going to take measurements on mine when he visits for Christmas so he can make me a set. I'd love recommendations for other areas that need protection as well.

My game has been on location since February and the only protection I added was laying down pieces of Avery Self Adhesive Laminating Sheets over high impact area, such as in front of the slings, pop bumper, around the scoop, outhole, and shooter lane. This stuff is a fantastic alternative to Mylar IMHO because it is so easy to work with. You can lay it down and take it off with no glue residue being left on the playfield, it is virtually invisible once applied cleanly, and it's dirt cheap as well. When it gets dirty you just replace it with fresh, though I haven't even had to do that on my game yet.

https://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/avery-self-adhesive-laminating-sheets/6000016953590

This will NOT protect the edges of the scoop hole however and I don't think a metal protector would work well there as it would likely make the scoop shot even more difficult to make. Ideally game designers would enlarge the openings for these types of shots such that a factory installed metal protector would not also reduce the size of the opening (see the SIM card shot on Dialed In).

#4083 4 months ago

Good to know! I'll definitely play around with making a protector regardless.

Anyways, I've reached out to Spooky and they've told me they sorted out the issue of wear around the posts (I linked specific comments in the thread), so supposedly it won't be a problem with new machines.

#4084 4 months ago
Quoted from atrainn:

Good to know! I'll definitely play around with making a protector regardless.
Anyways, I've reached out to Spooky and they've told me they sorted out the issue of wear around the posts (I linked specific comments in the thread), so supposedly it won't be a problem with new machines.

Did they explain what the problem was and their solution?

#4085 4 months ago
Quoted from Fytr:

Did they explain what the problem was and their solution?

Nope, just that they've corrected them and they're confident new machines won't see it. Regardless I'm still going to install the washers. When I get mine today (or tomorrow) I'll take a look and see if anything looks different around the posts compared to my friend's machine (early 300s).

#4086 4 months ago

I’m curious about those who have no damage....do you have no dimples as well? This I don’t really care about but I’m just curious. To me I’d expect this to be a common thing unlike the chipping issues.

#4087 4 months ago

Also for those installing washers right away, you might want to take the Mylar circles off too before they peel themselves off.

#4088 4 months ago
Quoted from AndHart120:

I’m curious about those who have no damage....do you have no dimples as well? This I don’t really care about but I’m just curious. To me I’d expect this to be a common thing unlike the chipping issues.

Plenty of dimples, just no chipping at posts. I do have one small spot on the right edge of the scoop where the ball repeatedly rolls in. I'll try to take a good picture next time the glass is off.

#4089 4 months ago
Quoted from AndHart120:

I’m curious about those who have no damage....do you have no dimples as well? This I don’t really care about but I’m just curious. To me I’d expect this to be a common thing unlike the chipping issues.

I have not observed any post damage on mine (yet). I am seeing the dimpling. However, I assume that to just be a realistic expectation.

#4090 4 months ago
Quoted from atrainn:

Nope, just that they've corrected them and they're confident new machines won't see it. Regardless I'm still going to install the washers. When I get mine today (or tomorrow) I'll take a look and see if anything looks different around the posts compared to my friend's machine (early 300s).

Hope so. Mine is on the line now. If the answer is to give longer cure time I'm happy to wait. I fail to see how a short term manufacturing process would correct this.

#4091 4 months ago

Yeah I figured that was what was going to happen regardless since that is the norm. No big deal.

#4092 4 months ago

I have no chipping but lots of dimples above the reactor numbers. Cant see them while playing but definetly can when looking at it from the side.

#4093 4 months ago
Quoted from damadczar:

Hope so. Mine is on the line now. If the answer is to give longer cure time I'm happy to wait. I fail to see how a short term manufacturing process would correct this.

Spending 6 to 8 weeks shipping to Australia and curing, mine also has paint loss.

#4094 4 months ago
Quoted from damadczar:

Hope so. Mine is on the line now. If the answer is to give longer cure time I'm happy to wait. I fail to see how a short term manufacturing process would correct this.

My thought is that maybe they now have a backlog of playfields ready to go and those have by now had adequate curing time? I can't imagine they're making playfields on demand rather than in bulk. Either way I'm toying with the idea of messaging them to buy a playfield. It was $500 iirc.

#4095 4 months ago
Quoted from hayrebear:

I have not observed any post damage on mine (yet). I am seeing the dimpling. However, I assume that to just be a realistic expectation.

All playfields dimple. Its pinball. Over time you will have so many that they will all blend in and smooth out. When I got my MMR it was dimpling like crazy. I have played that game so much that now you can not see any dimples except for a few that are in weird spots that it would take another 5 years for the ball to reach that spot enough to smooth it out.

#4096 4 months ago

All playfields will dimple. The difference is those playfields that use high quality wood and/or clear coat (JJP uses the former) will have fewer dimples than those that do not (Stern's wood from Iron Maiden on is absolute junk).

Do a comparison between a DILE with 500 plays and an Iron Maiden with 250. The DILE will have far fewer dimples. IMDN will have hundreds of dimples, many shallow because the wood gives easily even for light airballs.

#4097 4 months ago
Quoted from mrgregb123:

All playfields will dimple. The difference is those playfields that use high quality wood and/or clear coat (JJP uses the former) will have fewer dimples than those that do not (Stern's wood from Iron Maiden on is absolute junk).
Do a comparison between a DILE with 500 plays and an Iron Maiden with 250. The DILE will have far fewer dimples. IMDN will have hundreds of dimples, many shallow because the wood gives easily even for light airballs.

Oh God, here we go. Dimpling is normal and will happen on any game. It is more noticeable on new games because of the very clear/shiny and thick clear-coats used these days. A few dimples on a new game will really stand out and may even be alarming to look at. However, in all cases, over time and with enough plays the dimples will accumlate and essentially "flatten" the playfield and will become much less noticeable. If your HUO game is never played all that much the dimples may always be more noticeable.

There are controversial opinions that certain eras of PF or manufacturers playfields may be more susceptible to playfield dimpling than others, but none of this has been proven in any substantive sense. Modern games with shiny playfields and bright LED lighting show the dimples more than in the past. Games that tend to trigger airballs will dimple more than ones that don't etc.

My TNA has dimpled heavily. I have a year old Metallica that was on location that looks like a 90s wms game already, mostly flat not a lot of noticeable dimples per se anymore.

#4098 4 months ago

I was assuming we would be getting the same playfields that they did their testing on that showed over 1,000,000 hits to the scoop without chipping it.

22554945_1587462981314923_6813432946561869941_n[1] (resized).jpg
#4099 4 months ago
Quoted from Toads:

I was assuming we would be getting the same playfields that they did their testing on that showed over 1,000,000 hits to the scoop without chipping it.
[quoted image]

I am willing to bet those tests have the ball going in that scoop at the same angle and speed while during normal play the ball is hitting that scoop at all different angles and speeds.

#4100 4 months ago
Quoted from Fytr:

There are controversial opinions that certain eras of PF or manufacturers playfields may be more susceptible to playfield dimpling than others, but none of this has been proven in any substantive sense.

I'm not going to argue with you but there are substantial differences between playfields and clear coats and these differences have an impact on in the amount of dimpling the playfield has. I restore machines as a hobby. I've seen it all. I've worked on playfields from everyone (except Spooky). There are huge differences. New Stern's are going to dimple like crazy because their wood is cheap, light, soft, and crap. A new JJP won't have this problem. It will still dimple as all pfs will, but it won't resemble the moon after a few hundred plays.

Cure time affects dimples as well. As an experiment, I cleared a Dr. Dude which was completely flat from dimpling over 27 years. I waited exactly 3 weeks and then played it regularly. Next, cleared a TAF the exact same way (also perfectly flattened from 26 years of dimpling), but waited 2 months to play it.

The result? Across roughly the same # of plays Dr. Dude has lots of dimples. My TAF has about 15 even though the chair creates tons of airballs. "[Gasp!] But how?? The wood was already flattened! How could it dimple more??" Because the clear coat also dimples....not just the wood. Quality makes a difference. Cure time makes a difference.

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