(Topic ID: 192071)

Total Mylar removal Xenon

By pookycade

6 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 18 posts
  • 13 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by pookycade
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 6 years ago

So I am taking in a xenon which looks like it had day 1 mylar put down over the entire playfield top to bottom. Playfield underneath Mylar is perfect as best I can tell. Yeah ! But you can see it's bubbling and at the edges it's fraying some. So I've pulled some Mylar off my Paragon but not to this extent. I have read and executed on using the spray freeze technique. Any further advice other than to go slow ? Given the extent of Mylar should I just leave it and live with it ? Am I pressing my luck to try to keep paint and get this all off ?

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#2 6 years ago

Freeze spray works great, just go slowly and be liberal with it. I went through 3 cans on a playfield I just did. Plastic razor blades or credit cards for peeling. You have to decide if a little bit of paint loss is worth not having to play on sucky mylar forever. The mylar's only going to get worse so I don't think it's ever worth leaving on imo, particularly if the game is a player anyway. Besides, getting the mylar off is the easy part - it's the mylar glue residue that's a real drag to clean...

#3 6 years ago

I'd personally leave it unless you plan to fully strip the playfield, touch up the damage from removal and then clear coat. The Mylar won't get worse its been there this long.

#4 6 years ago
Quoted from canea:

Freeze spray works great, just go slowly and be liberal with it. I went through 3 cans on a playfield I just did. Plastic razor blades or credit cards for peeling. You have to decide if a little bit of paint loss is worth not having to play on sucky mylar forever. The mylar's only going to get worse so I don't think it's ever worth leaving on imo, particularly if the game is a player anyway. Besides, getting the mylar off is the easy part - it's the mylar glue residue that's a real drag to clean...

I'm ok with touchup and I'm thinking of putting down a playfield protector on it (yeah I know what's the point if you are taking Mylar off to put down something else on top but i like the look. Question is how much paint am I likely to lose here ? I had center playfield of Paragon covered in Mylar and kept pretty much all paint intact. So that leaves me optimistic but maybe unrealistic in my expectations

#5 6 years ago

In theory when you use freeze spray, the mylar seperates from the glue. (the glue remains on the pf) Then you remove the glue with alcohol or 50/50. I used this method on my FH and it worked perfect with no paint loss. The mylar in those pics is completely worn out and needs to be removed. Good luck man it should look great!

#6 6 years ago
Quoted from pookycade:

I'm ok with touchup and I'm thinking of putting down a playfield protector on it (yeah I know what's the point if you are taking Mylar off to put down something else on top but i like the look. Question is how much paint am I likely to lose here ? I had center playfield of Paragon covered in Mylar and kept pretty much all paint intact. So that leaves me optimistic but maybe unrealistic in my expectations

There doesn't seem to be a definitive answer on how much you'll lose and it's said to depend on variations in the manufacturing process or what sort of environment the machine has been kept in. Sometimes no loss, sometimes just a little loss around inserts, sometimes more. Looks like you've already got some paint loss anyway, so unless you're going for a CQ machine (in which case, you might need a new playfield anyway), I'd say go for it and expect a little loss here and there from the mylar and a little more scrubbing the glue off.

#7 6 years ago

Unlike automotive clearcoated playfields like FH or AFM, your Xenon only has a lacquer topcoat, and will likely lose a substantial amount of paint.

If the game was ever stored in an unheated garage, you may loose even more paint.

Adding to your dilemma, is that fact that back in the 80s there were several different brands of Mylar, all with different chemical adhesives. One brand might instantly loose it's grip by freezing while others will gladly pull the paint off in sheets.

In general, old 70s and 80s era games respond better to heat than freezing because of the lack of clearcoat.

Summary:

Leave the Mylar in place, you have an amazing looking original playfield.

#8 6 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Unlike automotive clearcoated playfields like FH or AFM, your Xenon only has a lacquer topcoat, and will likely lose a substantial amount of paint.
If the game was ever stored in an unheated garage, you may loose even more paint.
Adding to your dilemma, is that fact that back in the 80s there were several different brands of Mylar, all with different chemical adhesives. One brand might instantly loose it's grip by freezing while others will gladly pull the paint off in sheets.
In general, old 70s and 80s era games respond better to heat than freezing because of the lack of clearcoat.
Summary:
Leave the Mylar in place, you have an amazing looking original playfield.

Vid thanks so much. You constantly add knowledge that one can find nowhere else

This is what I am dealing with right now on the old playfield so even leaving Mylar in place it's a huge improvement

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#9 6 years ago

I used hair dryer method on my Firepower and had virtually no paint loss what so ever. The mylar just became soft almost melted and the glue became very soft.

#10 6 years ago

I got this post on my Pinbot restoration thread where I describe my mylar removal process a little bit.

Very little paint came off even though the playfield was quite planked and was advised to never pull this Mylar off.

Off course I was set for a full paint and clearcoat job afterwards but a playfield protector might be a good option.

Use plenty of freezing spray, Mylar should come off easy. Use 99% alcohol and flour. Say sorry to your fingers for me.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinbot-restoration-underway/page/2#post-3507038

P.s: Good results are not guaranteed, do not remove your mylar ; )

#11 6 years ago

I never mind when an older machine has day 1 mylar on it. The playfield is usually in way way better shape than if it didn't have it at all. I would 100% leave it as removing it sounds incredibly risky.

#12 6 years ago

Imo, I'd leave the mylar on. Strip the pf down and give the mylar a good polish. It'll look nice and shiny and you won't possibly tear up that great looking pf.

#13 6 years ago

That playfield is already pretty worn under the mylar. I've done a few. Even ten cans of duster you will lose paint. From what I see, you already have lots of paint loss under the mylar. My guess, you lift that....disaster.

#14 6 years ago

Please post pics if u do...
I believe the result has to do with how much sunlight or heat the pf saw and who knows what it saw. They all respond a bit differently.
Learning experience for all of us.

#15 6 years ago

Even though this might be a bit late, there is value here in this example.

The mylar sheet on this PF does not look like D1M from the factory.
There are all sorts of indications.

Many (not all, dependent the period of the 11K+ production run) Xenon D1M sheets were not cut to the top of the button rollovers and saucer on factory option games due to the mini buttons.

It looks like a operator installed decision afterwards, and a poor job.
Corners and edges are very sloppy and rough.
Playfield was not prepped correctly before Mylar application.
Worn areas under Mylar indicate an operator choice, after the game was routed and already wearing.

Verdict.
You will lose substantial paint.
A LOT.
How much will be dependent on adhesive resistance around inserts and corners, along with existing worn areas.
Freezing spray is not a good solution.
Neither is Goo Gone, flour, or anything else.
Freeze spray will actually promotes paint loss in this case caused from flaking on the paint layer as the lacquer is weakened!
People are guessing and do not have experience with 40 year old playfields. This was evident here.
This is not a CCd game.

Don't ruin another playfield.

This is not the time to give a test run on mylar removal techniques for the impatient.
This is not a learning experience playfield session, you do this only with JUNK playfields!
Do not apply bad advice restorations recommendations on this game or games like this one offered in this thread to remove this mylar.

Previous playfield sunlight exposure is not a determining factor in the success rate of mylar removal.
Yet even more guessing!
Heat from bulbs on inserts is the number one cause for mylar-playfield paint sticking with older games along with friction in high traffic zones such as pop bumpers, top of shooter lane, and slingshots!

Trim mylar edges cleanly with an xacto, pop bubbles with a pin, seal where needed, buff the playfield to a high shine with cutting compound, Novus 2, then wax.

You will be surprised with the good results.

#16 6 years ago

+1 to everything vid and tbk said. If you do proceed, use heat and then naphtha to remove the glue. If you use alcohol you will remove the lacquer as well as glue. This will result in a dull finish that is only fixed by re-clearing the field. Polish first, remove as last result.

#17 6 years ago
Quoted from xTheBlackKnightx:

Even though this night be late, there is value here in this example.
The mylar sheet on this PF does not look like D1M from the factory at all.
There are all sorts of indications.
Many (not all, dependent the period of the 15K production run) Xenon D1M sheets were not cut to the top of the button rollovers and saucer on factory option games due to the rollover buttons.
It looks like a operator installed decision afterwards, and a poor job.
Corners and edges are very sloppy and rough.
Playfield was not prepped correctly before Mylar application.
Worn areas under Mylar indicate an operator choice, after the game was routed and already wearing.
Verdict.
You will lose substantial paint.
A LOT.
How much will be dependent on adhesive resistance around inserts and corners, along with existing worn areas.
Freezing spray is not a good solution.
Neither is Goo Gone, flour, or anything else.
Freeze spray will actually promote paint loss in this case from flaking! People are guessing and do not have experience with 40 year old playfields! This was evident.
This is not a CCd game.
Don't ruin another playfield.
This is not a game to give a test run on mylar removal techniques for the impatient.
Do not apply bad advice restorations recommendations on this game or games like this one offered in this thread to remove this mylar.
Playfield sunlight exposure is not the determining factor in the success rate of mylar removal. Yet more guessing! Heat from bulbs on inserts is the number one cause for mylar-playfield paint sticking with older games along with friction in high traffic zones!
Trim mylar edges cleanly with an xacto, pop bubbles with a pin, seal where needed, buff the playfield to a high shine with cutting compound, Novus 2, then wax.
You will be surprised with the good results.

So I am pretty much inclined to follow this advice. Why ?

1) it clearly was an amateur hour job done on the Mylar under uncertain conditions so who knows what will happen
2) the pin was stored in a shed at least for a few years so paint condition is iffy at best
3) it is a remarkably good looking original playfield. I would hate to screw it up
4) some novus will bring the shine right back.
5) I believe it can be cleaned up with xacto knife and such

I don't actually have the playfield in my hands yet. I am just a bit concerned that the Mylar is pulledup already in large swaths and thus a reglue in those areas may not be easy. Will post more pics

#18 6 years ago

More pics. You can see inside the cabinet some rust and leaves indicating not so great storage conditions. Cab was pretty trashed

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