(Topic ID: 183527)

Total Nuclear Annihilation production by Spooky Pinball

By Grizlyrig

3 years ago

Topic Stats

  • 7,250 posts
  • 628 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by jaybeedee
  • Topic is favorited by 178 Pinsiders


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Topic poll

“Would you buy this if Spooky Pinball built it? How much would you be willing to pay?”

  • Yes 156 votes
  • No 219 votes
  • Maybe 186 votes
  • $5500-5750 324 votes
  • $5751-6000 98 votes
  • $6001-6250 63 votes
  • $6251-6500 44 votes
  • $6501-6750 18 votes
  • $6751-7000 35 votes

(Multiple choice - 1143 votes by 941 Pinsiders)

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Topic index (key posts)

34 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items.

Display key post list sorted by: Post date | Keypost summary | User name

Post #11 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by APB_Enterprises (3 years ago)

Post #301 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by stevevt (3 years ago)

Post #360 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by trilogybeer (3 years ago)

Post #376 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by FalconPunch (3 years ago)

Post #1501 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by johnnyutah (3 years ago)

Post #1502 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by oohlou (3 years ago)

Post #1768 Comments from the artist about the game's art Posted by mandraws (3 years ago)

Post #2179 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by SpookyCharlie (3 years ago)

Post #2378 webcast info on TNA and Jetsons. Posted by SpookyCharlie (3 years ago)

Post #2515 YouTube vid. Great quality. Posted by DeadFlip (3 years ago)

Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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#92 3 years ago

I played the living crap out of total annihilation on the PC (it was the better version of command & conquer and red alert). Bogged the hell down if you had a couple dozen machines on the screen at the same time on a pentium 90mhz.

When Scott was asking for names on facebook, I mentioned this title was taken and suggested something like total destruction. Copywright or not, even Ben changed his pinball from ghost squad to AMH because there was a SEGA arcade game with that name. If this moves forward to a production game, it might need a derivative name change. LEGALLY speaking, trademarks are only good for 10 years unless you renew:

With that said, I'd totally be in on this. Awesome layout, awesome music, awesome story. The only thing that would put this over the top is some pink EL wire neon (maybe an aftermarket mod)?

#135 3 years ago
Quoted from bangerjay:

Anybody got any sweet mode ideas?

>Idiot in sector 7g mode<
To disable one of the nuclear reactors you have to keep track of 4 inserts flashing "eenie meenie miney moe" faster and faster. The last insert that flashes and turns off you have to remember. Scroll through the 4 inserts with flippers buttons until you have the right one.
Choose right, reactor achieved.
Choose wrong, and the core begins critical mass and begins firing massive multiball. Every ball drained is a penalty (points taken away). You have to feed 5 balls into the scoop to cool it down.

#184 3 years ago

So I've been obsessed with this table ever since watching the jack danger stream.. So much so I took dolly parton in future pinball (fitting) and mocked up the total annihilation layout with the top down screenshot. Keep in mind, the coding is borrowed from Dolly so don't expect RGB lighting or real rules.. But if you really want to know how awesome this layout, it IS flippable. I got Scott's blessing before I posted this:

ta-future_pinball (resized).jpg

#189 3 years ago

george gomez favorite game right now: Total annihilation

#247 3 years ago
Quoted from Chosen_S:

I would hope for more of a kit

In this case, it would probably be counter productive to have to mount the 4 segment displays and center LCD to an existing cabinet, plus you'd never get the awesome sub sound that Scott designed.

However, I've always thought if anyone wanted to get their project mass produced and wanted to do so the most cost effective way was to do a playfield kit (Gary started Data east by making conversion kits in his basement)

Put the scoring display in the apron, store the PROC/power supply/sound amp in a box that sits in the bottom of the cabinet, connect audio to existing bezel speakers, connect 4 wires to existing flipper buttons.

I would imagine even mass produced with volume buying, a cabinet can easily add $600 to a BOM because of off the shelf parts beyond just the wood cabinet:
* side rails
* lockdown mech
* lockdown bar
* leg brackets
* legs
* backbox hinge
* speaker bezel hardware
* speakers
* coin door
* plunger

The most ideal cabinet would probably be Williams from 1985 (beginning of alphanumeric and the standard backglass size with high speed), going all the way up to 1998 with cactus canyon. Nearly every collector has at least one of those games from that timespan that could drop a playfield into one so long as it has the standard lockbar brackets on the front and can rest on whatever hinge mech in the back.

#251 3 years ago
Quoted from jwilson:

The cabinet isn't the expensive part of this game

Correct, the populated playfield is.. However $600 is a big chunk of final BOM cost (which seems to be the #1 thing people are complaining about).. It's not like deciding on whether or not to include a 2nd $50 ramp, or playfield pegs versus full slide rails. it's $600

Quoted from kursiv:

I will be making a single level Classic Bally style game that will have fully updated electronics

Yes, Bally "style" playfield, which it clearly is... and happens to be in a Bally Dolly Cabinet because he already had one. There's no reason it couldn't be put in a modern cabinet, but knowing how old school Scott is even if it did go into production he'd probably want to keep the same cabinet style which I respect. I was simply saying if someone were to do a "kit", Williams would probably be the most common pre-existing cabinet in someone's collection.

#261 3 years ago
Quoted from jwilson:

So, what exactly would you be able to re-use from your cabinet? Nothing other than the plywood box and some screws, ultimately

side rails cost $120
lockbar mech is $80
lockbar is $60
coin door is $150
Legs are $40
leg brackets are $16
playfield glass is $20 (more if it's shipped)

It adds up quicker than you think, and every time you buy a pinball all of those things cost money (and you're rebuying that hardware).

Quoted from jwilson:

who has an *empty* cabinet sitting around?

I'm not saying an empty cabinet sitting around doing nothing, I'm saying "a" cabinet. Though for instance, I have a high speed and an earthshaker both sitting in the shop area because I've been lazy about finishing shopping the playfields.

But let's suppose every single pinball I have in my collection is cherry. I'm bored of high speed, but I don't want to sell it off because I've put so much money and time into it, plus it's nostalgia for me. I'm out of room, what to do? conversion kit. Also I'm pretty sure a populated playfield could easily fit underneath the cabinet which is currently unused space. If you have unlimited room fantastic, most of us are quickly running out of space to put another pinball.

#284 3 years ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

My question is, are there compromises to the design decisions that would cut costs and make a close facsimile of the game experience be production viable at a price point people would be more open to?

Things like having an LCD and alpha-numeric displays is cool for the retro vibe, but totally unnecessary. The lightshow is awesome without a doubt, but that seems to be a place where a ton of the budget is going. Could that be accomplished more economically somehow without totally losing the spirit of what's been done? I just wonder if some less impactful aspects could be costed out to make the game as a whole available.

Gary Stern?

1 week later
#320 3 years ago

Would it be ironic if George gomez bought one?

#344 3 years ago
Quoted from TheNoTrashCougar:

one very important and exciting thing I can reveal is that Matt Andrews will be handling the artwork for the entire project

Couldn't think of a better artist than mandraws.. He did the original ben heck zombie adventure artwork. The glowing ambiance he creates is perfect for a nuclear theme. Scott Danesi was awesome, now he's going to be historic on IPDB.

4e4ae9a6e2e4933889a71e066c5d66ac6f1d69ac (resized).jpg

#420 3 years ago

You all need to stop making suggestions, especially any that would increase cost. Clearly this game is doing just fine as is. It won 1st place at MGC, and as far as I know is the first homebrew game to go into production (I don't count WOOLY because that was less than 10 built in a home by the buyers). Between Scott's skills and Charlie's ability to take a one-off (AMH) and make it optimized for building multiples this thing is going to be a hit at the best price it can be.

#461 3 years ago

I didn't mean to sound brash.. I just know that people like to armchair quarterback a lot, and for some projects clearly they need help. I just don't imagine Scott making many changes, if any. I also don't want to see this get delayed, people want it now.

Quoted from benheck:

"If I had asked my customers what they wanted me to build, they would have said a faster horse" - Henry Ford.

I was just watching american pickers last night, and they brought up a fact that Dillinger wrote Ford a letter, thanking them for building a fast car so he could watch the other cars (police) fall behind you. I thought that was hilarious!

#495 3 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

Pin sales boil down to one thing - Will a 50 year-old man buy it?

Could always do an alternate art package for a gottlieb reactor (which is amazing one showed up at MGC last weekend. I grew up in arcades and never once saw one, only played it on atari 2600).

gottlieb_reactor (resized).jpg

#561 3 years ago
Quoted from bangerjay:

You have your whole life to make your first game, six months for the second

That is so true

#592 3 years ago
Quoted from foureyedcharlie:

Will it run on P3 or Spooky platform?

I think the jetsons display (more pixels, but far from the HD Scott has now) is as far as Ben can currently push the hardware. Maybe that's ok for this game seeing how this is supposed to be retro 80's?

2 weeks later
#724 3 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

I think it would be clever to "brand" the pinball with Scott's name, and keep it going for all future games... like
Sid Meier's Civilization
John Carpenter's The Thing

Scott had a design company before all this.. I'm assuming it'll have his name on it, maybe even a logo.. sort of like when pat lawlor was designing for stern and you'd see PLD on the back glass.

#729 3 years ago
Quoted from fastpinball:

On the Spooky Podcast they said it would be a Spooky Title, not a contract game release.

Right I get that.. and CSI, roller coaster tycoon, family guy, nascar, ripley's were all official Stern releases but Pat got his company logo on it because he was the contractor that designed it. Spooky is officially building TNA, which is a game designed by someone not directly working for spooky.

2 weeks later
#1076 3 years ago

I think there should be multiple art revisions, maybe even hire 2 artists working simultaneously... Heck, maybe even respin the theme and call it retro atomic annihilation with zombies! Oh wait, I seem to remember that not working out for someone.

#1163 3 years ago
Quoted from bangerjay:

And who wants to play bttf? Nobody

I do.. Clay does

bttf_clay (resized).jpg

3 weeks later
#1224 3 years ago

another show winner, great job scott!

sfge_winner (resized).jpg

2 weeks later
#1323 3 years ago
Quoted from c508:

Interesting short video (06:17) which may appeal to fans of the 1980s artistic vibe on TNA

great find! That design makes me think of "saved by the bell" and swatch watches

27355201436_bedc22679f_k.0 (resized).jpg

Standard-Swatch-Watch-Montage.png (resized).jpg

#1328 3 years ago
Quoted from jwilson:

TNA isn't Memphis but instead Neon Noir, a different but also very 80's style

Yea it does seem to be closer to that.. This youtube channel has a lot of that art and music style:

#1358 3 years ago

Wouldn't you rather play a nice game of chess?

1 week later
#1432 3 years ago
Quoted from pinballlife:

my guess is you'll see this game sooner, not later

I'm guessing it will ship with complete code too, not a blank usb stick #starcouldbewars

#1442 3 years ago
Quoted from SLCpunk2113:

Did I hear somewhere that the musics for this game was available on Spotify?

Close.. soundcloud:

#1449 3 years ago
Quoted from Chitownpinball:

Yall need to put one of those fancy plasma caps on that pop bumper

I'm guessing since the pop bumper also has RGB, that it somehow ties to the modes. Plasma looks neat, but it has one color.

1 week later
#1468 3 years ago
Quoted from johnnyutah:

Interesting interview-

I saw this posted on facebook but thanks for reminding me to watch. Scott says hopefully full artwork shown at chicago expo.

#1511 3 years ago

That MSRP is a little weird, don't remember if they've used that before? Spooky pricing (at least direct) has always been a fixed price.. And I bought AMH direct so I can pickup in person and not pay tax. At $6k I think its' priced right.

#1518 3 years ago
Quoted from KingPinGames:

Which part is a little weird? As a distributor i would like to understand peoples concerns and questions.

MRSP means suggested retail price, which is what Stern does.. then you get a distributor price. There's no suggestion correct? $5995 IS the price?

#1611 3 years ago
Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

I also LOVE the 3D perspective of the fuel rod cooling pool in the playfield core artwork!

Good eye, didn't notice that.

#1675 3 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Can somone post a side by side of the current pf and the whitewood? Would love to see the comparison.

TNA_whitewood_vs_art (resized).jpg

#1682 3 years ago

what gomez is doing right now

gomez_TNA (resized).jpg

#1757 3 years ago
Quoted from Grizlyrig:

Case in point..how long does it take Stern to assemble say 300 machines? And how long for Spooky? Maybe the fast production line is the problem.
This is all opinion and speculation on my part but it is also food for thought

I think this is absolutely the issue. Stern moved to thicker clearcoat because that's what people want (old playfields used to wear), now they're dealing with all the issues that rushing a thick clearcoat comes with (ghosting, cracked clear).

Spooky I believe is up to maybe 2 games/day, Stern is around 50-60 per day.

All of this is a moot point though because every manufacturer (even spooky, unless they have a different method) should be ordering cleared playfields 2 weeks before production starts so that they fully cure, and playfields should be continued to order ahead of time. The playfield is the most crucial part seeing how it has the most labor.

1 week later
#2088 3 years ago

Don't know how many people watched Scott's livestream on Sunday where he was working on the music, but he previewed the first 5 reactor songs. Soundtrack is really coming along.

#2103 3 years ago
Quoted from johnnyutah:

Is there a link to the live stream?

There's a link to his page, but he didn't save the stream unfortunately. It was mostly him just messing around with his software tweaking one of the songs but it did sound like the 5 tracks were relatively done as he previewed them. They are all very cohesive in that one song doesn't sound completely different than the others, but they are all unique.

#2135 3 years ago

Though I've been very vocal about not suggesting changes, I would at the very least request there be a specific audio queue when you do complete one of the reactors (whatever that may be) so it could be swapped out later by uploading a new wav file. I would love it if there was some sort of nuclear power plant siren to really get you pumped that you completed that goal

1 week later
#2597 3 years ago

The last 12 minutes of last night's stream is the most worth watching. Charlie talked about how the new higher quality wood + better clearcoat he hopes to hit 2 million hits (with a much more brutal testing rig). Also Scott showed the diagnostics screens which probably give even a router way more information than he could ever imagine, like timestamped switch errors :-0

#2642 3 years ago
Quoted from benheck:

If you roll the score it should start displaying in hexadecimal.

wouldn't you need alphanumeric displays for hexadecimal?

#2646 3 years ago

forgot about lowercase trick

Quoted from benheck:

though the b looks like a six

guess you blink the "b" then. blinky b!

2 weeks later
#3110 3 years ago

Not a bad price, that's got to be at least a 2 or 3 hour print job. Lot of surface area there.

#3125 3 years ago
Quoted from TheNoTrashCougar:

That would be insane to make a machine that does not fit standard glass...

magic_Girl (resized).jpg

#3163 3 years ago
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

Now I'm hungry for a Kraft dinner.

I would buy you a k-car.. a nice reliant automobile

#3176 3 years ago
Quoted from jwilson:

No custom pinball booth this year, none of the people I know are going.

Homebrew is about the only reason I go to expo (that and any new reveal). This year might suck more than it ever has.

#3193 3 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Can someone summarize details from the stream?
I was not able to tune in, but sounds like they delivered the first production game to ed?

#3244 3 years ago
Quoted from xizor:

What is the build quality like with a spooky pin?

Can't speak for later titles, but as AMH owner #93 it's pretty dam near flawless. Cabinet solidly built, no manufacturing flaws like you see on pins from bigger companies (switches not installed right, flaws in clearcoat, decals falling off). Every game goes through a huge list of QC checks before it goes out the door. One thing about a boutique builder (even though charlie is starting to ramp up to some bigger numbers in recent years), they know that quality can make or break your reputation.

#3248 3 years ago
Quoted from TKDalumni:

Updates are a PITA.

really? I plugged a laptop in, ran the software, was done in under a minute everytime. Updating the sound files is easy with SD cards. Though I have seen some people with issues of a certain version of windows have issues. Like Mr68 said, since this is a PROC based system, it's completely different (but easily updated).

1 week later
#3377 3 years ago
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

How about we let Charlie and Kayte take a breath now and then. I guess 12 hour days 7 days a week isn't enough?

I don't know how they do it. I mean everyone gets tired, or at least sick once in a while. I'm guessing they push through it. Hardest working people in pinball.

#3415 3 years ago
Quoted from Chitownpinball:

Put it in a small cab like SMMW, make the reactor area smaller, change the total reactors to 4 instead of 9, and make the danesi lock only 1 ball (for 2 ball multiball). No screen, just the alphanumerics

that's not how cost reduction works. Making a smaller cabinet means redesigning both the cabinet and playfield layout. How do you even justify the time it takes to do that (which would likely not even reduce the cost that much), and then you create a a new problem in that I'm not sure how easy it would be to source shorter side rails (and non-standard glass).

Removing the LCD screen would eliminate about $35 in cost, eliminating 2 drop down targets would eliminate $80 retail (probably more like $50 in volume)

2 weeks later
#3610 3 years ago
Quoted from gstellenberg:

Multimorphic's new website is live with the new lower pricing on the boards used in TNA. The site is: http://www.multimorphic.com. Here are direct links to the relevant board pages:
P3-ROC ($175): https://www.multimorphic.com/store/circuit-boards/p3-roc/
PD-16 ($85): https://www.multimorphic.com/store/circuit-boards/pd-16/
PD-LED ($70): https://www.multimorphic.com/store/circuit-boards/pd-led/
SW-16 ($45): https://www.multimorphic.com/store/circuit-boards/sw-16/

At $375 prices do seem to be more reasonable now.. I'm guessing a similar setup a few years back would be more like $600?
Is the price break due to higher volumes as of late?
I'm also assuming if someone were to buy all the above boards, they could build an equivalent homebrew game to TNA (IE same coil count, switch count, RGB lighting, etc)?

2 weeks later
#3692 3 years ago
Quoted from Shapeshifter:

Spooky now seem to have the best playfields of any manufacturer.
Who makes them? Guessing that is a trade secret....

Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

he does not make the playfields.

I'm guessing he also doesn't clear them, but he has chosen the clear type and process for his vendor. His trade secret on this alone is going to make his games desirable compared to many other manufacturers. That million cycled TNA playfield is crazy.

Would love for charlie to chime in whether those marks cleaned up with novus, or is he going to continue to run the cycle test another million hits?

1 month later
3 weeks later
#4246 3 years ago
Quoted from ViperNation:

When the final reactor is destroyed, instead of the game just ending

*spoiler alert*

Why is there not a "hide text" option on pinside?

2 weeks later
#4527 3 years ago
Quoted from flashinstinct:

FLAC Files is a form of audio file that's superior

mp3 is loss compression.. FLAC is lossless (I think it's maybe 1/4th the size of a redbook audio CD) while mp3 can be easily 10-12 times compression. There was also a yamaha audio standard that was pretty good but it never caught on. It's usually always the first accepted format that wins.

#4547 3 years ago
Quoted from snakesnsparklers:

If the 1's and 0's are the same it's a lossless format by definition.

This.. Yes, technically any digital format has loss over analog because you've gone from curves to peaks of on/off. But as far as digital goes, FLAC does not add any noise when it compresses. If you were to compare it to a photo.. Putting a TIF file in a zip file would be FLAC, JPEG would be mp3.

1 week later
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