I'd buy less than $6k
I don't understand the rules, and the music could get old fast. Looks good but the price needs to be decent.
Would be great for a larger collection and for party's I'm sure. I don't believe it would be great if it was one of 1-2 pins in a collection.
I thought The Jetsons was cool, but at $6K, I'm not interested, I had money just got a SM (like new) for $5K. If Jetsons was priced $5K, I might have thought about that instead. It all comes down to price.
No doubt TA can sell some at $8K it's great but it will be cutting off 90% of the pinball audience. I wouldn't buy, I didn't care about DI once I read the price was $9K. It doesn't exist for me anymore unless I find one in another Pinsiders collection or in the wild. I was going to buy MMr but realized to me it didn't equal $8K plus shipping plus colorization. They lost a sale.
If however if TA were to come in at $6K (or less) then all the sudden there will be a lot more people.
Yes, kind of like when Pac-Man first came out. Very simple rules but people kept playing. Only with this being real physical skill you never have the same game twice.
Quoted from stevevt:
Per Spooky's FB page, Spooky will be producing Total Annihilation.
"YES! Spooky is making Scott Danesi's Total Annihilation. More details to come over the next few months!"
I love the music but possibly it could be switched have a radio type feature to switch songs before playing in case you desire a more hard rock type music (would be cool).
I'm thinking some NIN type industrial or heavy metal/thrash.
Quoted from TheNoTrashCougar:
Thank you guys very much. I am so appreciative of the great feedback and comments! I am also extremely excited to see this thing make it out of my basement. I don't have too many things to reveal at this moment, but one very important and exciting thing I can reveal is that Matt Andrews will be handling the artwork for the entire project. He is a great guy and is extremely talented. Thank you guys once again, and thank you to all that helped me get the project where it is today!
Sorry if I missed it, but can you give a synopses or back story to the theme?
Quoted from 30FathomDave:
Very cool! I'm normally a "$50 ramps guy," BUT this admittedly looks pretty damn incredible.
Me too. I have all Stern typically ramps and whatnot. I like them and how same/similar layouts can feel different by rules and art and music etc.
TA is something else, I'd love to add this, like a whole new class of pinball than anything I own.
Quoted from Chosen_S:
This is just awesome. I'm excited to see the finished code, art and screen animations, I have a feeling that the whole package is far from finished and will be taking on some new shapes in the near future now that there is serious incentive to get the product to production, I'm also hoping for a few additions to the playfield, even if they are suttle; just cherries on top type of stuff. Way to go Scott !
I'm in, wife doesn't know it yet but unless it's crazy expensive I'll get it.
I'm going back to the excitement I had from earlier Predator footage, I'm not saying that in any bad way. Just that there was a newness, fresh air about Predator. Little guy makes something great against the normal establishment.
Great news Spooky is on board brings some needed stability to the table.
Quoted from FalconPunch:
From dead flip stream... Go to the start and he explains it . I held my phone with the android siri to my speakers and fixed some of the mistakes it made.
the storyline of this whole thing is you are from 1988 and you are sitting down with some scientists and they said "Hey man we got some bad news, but you're going to be able to fix this!". A future civilization have discovered reverse time travel (which we all know there is a big problems with Reverse time travel because you come back and screw everything up. Paradoxes and all sorts of stuff. They are going to use this for evil and we know this (they are scientists after all) they need you to go forward in time (which is fine because that's easily doable with cryogenics etc or whatever they have in 1988)
So they are going to send you in the distant to destroy the civilization before they invent reverse time travel.
So they have 9 nuclear reactors map on the (lower PF) on their land that you need to start and overheat (Upper PF). You are trying to destroy everything and everyone so it's a 1 way mission (there is no reverse time travel obviously so you cannot get back). If you win you're going to die. If you don't win, the world is f**ked.
Quoted from bangerjay:
You need to hit them multiple times to get the job done, with the drop down, you don't have anything to hit w/o the stand ups behind as well
Stand ups can be behind drops like ACDC TNT target or in TH.
Does this have a shaker motor? I'd bet it would be nice to have shaker feedback whenever you hit a critical target.
I was just asking if this has a shaker?
Sorry if this upsets some snowflake here.
Last I checked this was America not Nazi Germany where no one is allowed to ask a question.
Quoted from pinballholder:
Not sure where the rules are that state you can't evaluate an awesome machine and discuss what could make it better or worse? Why all the push back? This is a forum...to you know...discuss things.
I agree to all who are concerned about any question regarding this pin, Pinside is not your safe place, go to your safe place.
I'm 52 years old, totally down for TA but as I said although I like the music a lot (would not change that) but would appreciate an alternate soundtrack (industrial) or the ability to upload custom music easily (i.e. Not programming).
It could be a nice addition to an already great pin.
What is the purpose of the light field down towards the flippers?
Plexiglass + reactor would be bad ass.
What do the lights near the flippers do? I mean the square of 15 lights between the slings plus the three below those?
If Stern was making this, they'd probably only have 6 color changing lights.
Like $15k BM66 SLE
For those who have played it, does it seem like it has legs or would it be more likely fun to play occasionally but not like a game you're going to keep for long time?
I don't have any simple rule pins like Space Station so I don't know how I feel about TA.
I'm not saying TA is Space Station just that the rules seem more basic.
Is this initial euphoria for TA or do you think it's the real deal?
Quoted from aobrien5:
How do you feel about BSD? Simple rules, one basic goal, difficult to achieve, rewarding when you do.
TNA has the same feel to me. Simple rules, one (well, 9) basic goal, increasingly difficult to achieve, rewarding when you do.
Both of them make you want to play "one more game."
I've played BSD but can't say I really have played it enough more just shooting around.
I love IM and don't get tired of it, but I would probably not want to have it as my only game. For me adding TA would be adding to a large collection of pins with deep rules (Tspp, LotR, TWD, AcDc ... ... IM). so likely it would be fine.
I think that it's nice that they are not putting a limit like 500 (max) so I can play before I need to decide.
Quoted from lpeters82:
If you had to compare it with another game that's a good choice...and high praise. Starting the reactor does feels a bit like shooting for castle multiball.
I'm curious if TA rules are: start reactor and destroy the reactor (do that 9 times), would that be the same as if IM was the only (or main) rules are: raise Iron Monger and destroy Iron Monger (do that 9 times)?
Quoted from Cheeks:
My impression is that's the main objective, thus my earlier rinse and repeat comment. Now, easier said than done, but I think that's the general thing. Much tougher and more variety of shots than the IM example. Isn't Iron Monger raised by shooting the orbits (I don't have IM)? TNA uses the entire playfield as parts of the start/maximize your score while destroying the reactor, so that comparison isn't really fair.
Like a lot of early 80s stuff, it's all about the layout and how fun/challenging the objective is, since in reality there isn't a ton of variety in objectives. In the time I've spent, this game was a F'n blast and for people that can embrace the narrower focus, it seems like a home run.
Thanks, I don't watch the whole videos and I don't have any older type pins so your description helps.
Iron Monger is just started by raising Monger from the orbit shots. However as you described maybe if you took the whole pin and said Monger was raised by the side stand ups, Drone stand ups, Whiplash target, the ramps and the orbits all building different points but the goal is to raise then destroy the Monger 9x
Quoted from kvan99:
No...never. I was in an underground bomb shelter for that time.
This is what I asked earlier. I have played Space Station once seemed like I was close to solving the pin on my first play.
However maybe it's like video game PacMan or Q-Bert where it's same same but you can have fun doing the same same.
Quoted from trilogybeer:
Also more strategy involved , you can either just try to destroy the reactors one after another (which is tough on its own) or you can max out the reactor value before you start the reactor (which makes it tougher but the reward is great) Multiball is a multiplier so you also want to be in multiball when you destroy it .
Quoted from foureyedcharlie:
I have to keep my opinions to myself on this one....really not digging that backglass, I actually thought it was a joke. The game is brilliant , definitely going to wait to see the final product.
I was also not initially a fan, but have to see how the whole package comes together. At least it's better than DI (does that sound like faint praise)? In the end the pin will be done however they like and any bitching will just bring thumbs down.
It's not as if they ask would you rather have this or that style. It sounds like it is what it is going to be kind of like GOT pro or AcDc premium you have to accept what it is. I don't love AcDc backglass art but the pin itself is great.
Quoted from Aurich:
And then we have this gem. It must suck to not have any strong women in your life, I feel for you, but it doesn't make your comment any less stupid and ignorant. Happy Mother's Day.
It was a joke, some of you guys need unclench.
Quoted from lavmech1:
Wait, what?!? Thanks for the diagnosis Doc, but I can certainly "loosen up" and play any game I want regardless of theme. But shelling out a few grand to BUY a game with an art package that doesn't seem to fit quite right is a different thing. The fact that this entire thread is laced with insinuations of other people being sexist for not wanting a pink and purple cartoonish girl on the backglass of their doomsday pin is crazy. I guess this is what discussion has come to in the hyper-offended millennial age.
What's the urgency to be in the list now? I mean it's not even revealed or the price.
What is the benefit of one or the other to buy from?
regarding the artwork, initially I didn't care for the back glass, but as a whole package it's very nice, retro cabinet art and PF looks great.
As to the price, it's spot on, I (likely) will but and it's cheap enough (but it passes for cheap today) I bought Iron and IM for $4700 that was in relation to games like STLE $7700 and Woz RR or DI ($9K).
I believe it's the correct price to sell enough and yet still keep it kind of rare by cost alone, people will still buy big name brands like SW, GB, Guardians of the Galaxy etc.. but this is kind of the sweet spot just under Stern premium but just above a Stern pro.
I think (IMO) Stern pro are ok but they lack the features of TNA like the etched side rails, beacon topper, fully controlled color changing LEDs, metal apron, (probably service rails).
I have not played it, but 90% likely to buy its the price is right.
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:
You can set the number of reactors needed to be destroyed in the settings. Scott set it to one, just so we could see the ending. It's never been done in a game, that I know of, and I doubt anyone would guess what it is. There is SOOOOOOOOO much about this game that is so well done. We seriously couldn't quit playing.
Also told Scott he needs to work in a dollar mode.
this is a fantastic idea.
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:
I hear you. My thoughts arent for you to remove what you enjoy, but perhaps a way that myself, and maybe others
might be able to buy the game.
Seriously, some of us old farts on meds, get hearing issues...for me, its a constant ringing. So, games with soundtracks that are repetitive like Tron or TnA, simply produce headaches.
Again, Im speaking for myself, and i dont know if I can Mod this myself, but as much as you dont like AC/DC, I can see playing this game to heavy sounds I can handle...SOAD, or Excision, as my son asked, as an example.
» YouTube video
Just a thought...Id love to add more...not take away, but I appreciate the feedback!
I love the music in the pin but also hope there could be some custom music mixes that would be fantastic as well.
This would keep the pin fresh and allow some creative people to tinker with the audio much like was done with TWD. Not saying TNA sound music is bad at all, but I like to mis things up as well. Like what Old guy has picked too.
I'm selling my STLE because I don't play it as much, but I figured maybe let me see more of the pin before it leaves. So I put it on 6-balls (instead of 3) just for the heck of it. But my point is, yes I am seeing more or getting deeper but it's just more of a grind. I mean it doesn't seem like playing longer games on it make it any better, it's not like LotR when I destroy the ring. I get to KM multi ball more often but it doesn't knock my socks off. I understand that KM is just an intermediary mini wizard whatever you want to call it (like BR on SM) but just trying to say, I think some times deep games like ST (to me) deep just means more work. I'd have as much fun playing a three minute game on TWD as I would on a 15 minute game on ST.
Likely (I hope) TNA will be the type of short playing game like BigD says like BSD short on rules maybe but intense. I love that about IM it may have way less rules than ST but I like playing it more.
I'm on record that I love the pin, probably buy one so I'm not a hater in any way.
I think (maybe) what he's saying is that it looks homemade. I mean it's not detailed. Look at the center, I mean everything below the center standup bank and the flippers.
There is a map (?) that looks like it's been drawn by hand with 9 lights in it. I think maybe the idea was this was map that was drawn by the resistance so they just drew a crude map. I would think maybe it would have been done with a little more pizzas or flair but as it is everything in the middle of the PF is very simple. Not a ton of depth or detail.
I am not saying it's bad either, just a design choice and it reminds me somewhat of the flat aspect of T2.
I like the art a lot but it looks homemade, may have been the look they were going for, very simple style.
My feeling is the art is good but I don't care for the logo down by the flippers, it detracts from the immersion of the game. IMO
Quoted from RandomGuyOffCL:
Couple questions come to mind when I look at this pin...
1. Say instead of Scott/Spooky, it was Gomez/Stern that designed/produced this same exact pin...Would it be as well received?
2. This is the pin to compare to Star Wars considering after shipping it will be $1000 more than a pro & only $900 cheaper than prem.
Is it a better deal than either of those?
Stern would *never* put so much quality in a pin. If Stern did this pin it would be like WNBJM which is around the same price, and low run game.
Stern does not have flipper button extended etched side armor on SW premium or pro and no beckon/topper so if those were bought separately would add several hundred dollars.
Stern probably does not have as good of sound system, I can't say about the Spike sound system because I don't own one.
I think this is a better deal (IMO) because it lines up closer to the pro. I say that because I've often contemplated adding extended etched side armor to my Tron, TWD, IM and other Stern games and that's usually a $200-400 price. The topper, I can take or leave but if it was an extra cost option likely would be $100 or so. Plus add in the sound system and the full color lighting it's like a premuim at a pro-memium price.
I'm not big into toppers but as far as this goes, I think TNA hit it out of the park, I mean it's not too huge and likely will be used in attract mode and during the game. If it was an extra cost option I'd get it so being included is like (imo) having an extra $100-200 feature added. The side armor is $200-$300 all day long.
Regarding the question of how many TNA will sell?
Pinside has 40K members not sure how many active but must be a smaller number. I believe for a boutique pin like this Pinside is a major market, likely most Predator, AMH, and RZ were sold to Pinsiders.
I was looking at the wish list number and there are only 40 for TNA.
Maybe that's because the game is not near production and the game was just added to the database a few days ago. So if you plan on getting one might add to your wish list now this will give me an indication of how many people want one but have not thought of putting it in their collection wish list. So for example if next week there is 50 that tells me some your if next week there is 150 on wish list.
-Jetsons: 4 own 4 wishlist
-Houdini pin has 63 wishlist
-DI has 198 wishlist plus several hundred owners
-Alice Cooper (not a popular theme especially after RZ) plus we don't see the layout of AC yet but only 16 wishlist
-WNBJM (quite expensive and not mainstream) 38 owners and 31 wishlist (I would buy WNBJM for $3300 but not any more).
Stern probably the last big seller was
-GB all versions
860 own and 500 wish list
103 own 135 wishlist
Quoted from Whysnow:
I am guessing they will run them in batches of 50, so that means 50 will sell to start... then another 50 after that... and so on, till they stop selling, then probably another 50...
my impression is that the first batch of 50 is already accounted for and possibly more? I noticed that the main 2 Spooky distributors will noting that people shoudl reach out asap to be put on the list if they wanted to get one sooner rather than later. My guess is they were inferring that the first 50 or 100 are already spoken for which I would believe.
I believe you may be right, I'm just saying Pinside may account for a good number as most AMH and RZ are accounted for on Pinside
-RZ (300) has 158 owners and 44 wishlist
-AMH (150) has 94 owners and 88 wishlist
This does not count people on Pinside who don't update their collection or never have a collection list. So there could well be another 20-60 owners of both that don't list.
My point is Pinside owners list is a tool, not an accurate measurement but a tool.
I recall when Stern made IMVE the owners list of IM went up 150-200 in the course of a few months.
Please note Pinside now has a separate listing for IMVE but initially they didn't so I switched my collection over to IMVE for accuracy but some people might not have. IM plus IMVE now account as 515 owners.
I'm just trying to look at Pinside numbers and see if they stay very low like WWE total owners 72
Again I'm sure the numbers will improve as the game is released, no need to get jazzed because it has low wishlist numbers. But owners and wishlist numbers are not meaningless because a high number like Woz or TZ Shows that a lot of them are owned by Pinsiders. Woz almost 1000 owners and almost 600 wishlist.
I am not predicting the sales numbers but if I was guessing I'd say more than RZ (300) and less than IM which sold (guess ~2000).
If TNA playes really well it could sell over time as word of mouth spreads. For example Tron and IM was made back in a time when Stern didn't keep making a lot of batches like they do with Metallica or AC/DC so they likely didn't sell as much as they could have if they were kept making them.
Quoted from Whysnow:
I dont have it in my wishlist and I am getting one...
I also dont list any of my most ISO games, nor do I list the majority of my collection accurately.
Ok don't get worked up, I said not every Pinside member lists their game. In fact I specifically said some Pinsiders don't list. I know several who don't list at all. Who cares? I'm saying maybe half the people do list their pins.
Are you trying to imply that *no one* lists their games? The majority of AMH are listed as owned by Pinside owners list. So IMO more than half do list their games.
Also just because some or a lot of people don't list their games does not mean the owners list is not a tool to see how many games are sold.
If I told you 950 Woz owners and 72 WWE owners were listed would you just say well some people don't list their collection so you can't tell which has sold more pins?
Also I said quite early that TNA has just been put on the database so there is not really been any time for people to list it, I just put on wishlist today maybe tomorrow there will be 300 on the wishlist I don't know. I'm just looking at that to get some idea.
Quoted from RustyLizard:
I have zero games on my wishlist but don't believe that is accurate in any way. My collection is up to date. While I don't think a high percentage use the wish list I would guess an even lower number have a game on there that isn't available for another month.
Ok, this is just one data point and the game was just added to the database like last week after I asked about it.
It's not like it has been on the database for 4 months. I'm just looking to see, maybe not too many people use wishlist at all. I do, I have Woz on my wishlist and will get that in a week, I also have AFM and TNA on my wishlist and those are my two most likely games to buy, other games like RBION which I like and could buy I don't have on my wishlist so I agree the wishlist is even more inaccurate than the owners list.
Quoted from Whysnow:
I am not worked up, lol.
Was just cautioning that using crap data means crap results. At this stage, there is little value in wishlist for TnA.
crap in=crap out.
I am not sure why it matters how many will get sold? That is the beauty of this for spooky, the first unlimited design with commitment to build in batches of 50 till there is no more demand.
I doesn't matter how may get sold. Someone asked before how many did people think would get sold, I think this will be Spookys biggest seller so far. I didn't just want to guess some random number.
I think the combination of the nice art, the nice gameplay, the sound is great and the price is good. It probably won't sell thousands because the price is not like what some people wanted such as $4995, but the price is not crazy like MG or similar games. If it was $7995 the sales would not be nearly as good as $5995.
I said on page one less than $6k was the number (for me). If it was $7k seriously doubt if I'd get it.
I believe it is priced very strong, I mean they didn't price it off the hook, it's right between a pro and a premium and that's what I really expected.
It looks like great quality and I'll pay money for great quality.
Are there any hurry up modes?
Any frenzy mode?
I believe heard on the livestream where everything is 2x during multi ball (can't recall if that's 3x when 3 ball multi ball?)
What are all the circle inserts down by the flippers for?
What do the RAD stand ups do.
Quoted from SilverballNut:
Typically you earn base bonus and increases as you play, so 50k could be the bonus you've earned. Also, if 50k and 20k are lit, then your base bonus would be 70k (usually, not positive if TNA does that, but probably).
Then your bonus multiplier 2x, 3x, etc. would take your base and multiply it by whatever the multiplier was. So if the playfield showed 50k and 20k and a 2x, you would really be getting 70k times 2 or 140k at the end of the ball. Usually you would see the bonus lights count down while your score counted up and it would do it once for each multiplier. I'm pretty sure TNA does this.
Quoted from PinballSTAR:
Typo in my FB post / email... hit wrong number. It's 5,995 of course as Charlie said my apologies for confusion. Nothing but a typo, argh fat fingers !
I'd like to get around December/January not October/November. But I don't want to be waiting too long either.
Would it be better for me to order later in the year?
Hopefully someone will come up for drop target mod either stickers or colored plastic etc.
Quoted from wantdataeast:
I seems like everyone gets pissed when people say something negative about a new project. So I guess get ready to down vote this post.
First of all I respect anyone in the industry trying to produce new games.
Secondly, I do not buy new sterns (and will not until my collection is filled with far superior 90's Bally Williams titles that are available at the same price or less on the secondary market TZ, Monterbash, Indian Jones, etc.) So take my opinion with a very large grain of sale. I will not buy this new... just like i would not by a new pro stern.
I watched the video and: The repetitive music reminded me of something out of an 80's porn movie. The video of a cityscape fly by was pointless and distracting. The game play looked no more interesting that anything produced from 1985 to 1990. I kept fast forwarding through the video waiting for the Nuclear Annihilation to occur, but I guess I missed it. It seems pretty anti-climatic. I am assuming at one point we see the annihilation; but consider a game like Gottlieb's Genesis where you build the arms and legs of Maria. And then after all of that the climax of the game is the robot is final shown... Yawn. The feeling left is: Is that it?
I realize that this is a white board in an early stage of production but the concept, seems far inferior to Spookys other pins (Rob Zombie, Alice Cooper and Americas most haunted)
I am really not sure why a new pinball manufacture would take advantage of themes that are in the public domain that have a cult following.. Like War of the Worlds, or Sherlock Holmes, Something from classic sci-fi literature Jules Vernes, HG Wells, etc.
Or even a lesser license theme...how about classic Lost in Space, Munsters, Addams Family, Outer Limits.
No problem with having an opinion.
But the designer had his own vision and made what he wanted and (I believe) he even made all the songs himself which is quite a talent.
No one is stopping anyone from doing The Munsters or Conan theme.
I think if you don't like TNA that's ok just don't buy it. Wait for someone to make The Munsters or whatever floats your boat.
Quoted from SpookyCharlie:
HUGE thank you to everyone who put faith in this game, and made it A RECORD DAY AT SPOOKY!!!
We can't thank you enough for the patience... and I have a feeling once this game gets out there and played more, it's going to just keep going.
From our family to yours, THANK YOU. We don't take your support lightly... just glad to be here.
Is it possible to post some high resolution pics?
No one has answered if there are any ancillary modes such as frenzy mode or super hurry up modes?
Pardon never played it, but I hear some people say it's like an updated EM.
Can someone confirm or deny that for me? I am not that much of an EM player so I don't really have any firm feel for who they play. Do know WNBJM how that plays, doesn't look or sound anything like TNA.
At worst TNA is a hybrid it's got modern technology like LCD, fast kick out scoop, lighting and sound effects unlike any EM.
Quoted from Whysnow:
more closely related in game play like a modernized classic Bally.
Think class of 79-82 era but 8x faster and modernized approach.
Centaur, Frontier, Flash Gordon, Skateball, Etc...
Better yet, just go play one (preferrably with a few buddies as a 4 player game) and then get an idea if you dig it. Best part about teh unlimited run of 50 at a time is you have no stress to find out if you want in (at least no stress for the near future; maybe some stress when they give a last call)
Most guys I know or location have modern pins.
Likely I'll play TNA at a convention.
I just ordered one in the 4th batch = early 2018
I am deciding if I should get the painted cabinet or decal.
Quoted from Crile1:
The excitement during the stream was intense (as well as the soundtrack). I'll admit it, I drank the Kool aid. I'm in on the early part of Batch #4.
I sometimes wonder about 'enthusiasm' at these events after all Jetsons looks meh and yet they're going to say it's 'fun', they really have to. But I sincerely believe TNA is real fun and I'm buying before I've played it, because I've scarcely heard a bad thing about it.
The idea that the Jetsons costs the same as TNA that's rediculious.
I am glad to support Spooky and think Stern has lost its track lately with both QC and creativity while changing more money.
Quoted from VacFink:
Curious to see if any of the artwork detractor's change opinion after seeing this video. I absolutely love the light show and what it does to the plastics.
This game looks like so much fun!
I am not an art detractor but have said the art was just good not GREAT.
But the lighting really makes up for that, so that the lights work with the art.
I mean when it's off the art is kind of basic but it comes alive with lights when playing.
That's half of my lineup, I'm not counting TWD pro as it's kind of off with bash toy and less conventional than the above pins.
So I figured to get a unique to me layout for a change of pace.
Quoted from Whysnow:
The way you claimed it, AFMr was 5995
Quoted from blueberryjohnson:
Is there any rule where if you futz (or flail around) too long after lighting the blow up the reactor shot that the shot unlights as the reactor starts to cool down (begins dropping back down from 99) and you have to build it up again to relight the shot?
That's a cool idea.
Quoted from Jakers:
What is the cabinet upgrade people are talking about? I'm guessing super glossy, clear coated cabinet art??
Someone posted a few pages back they have a fishtails pin with similar.
Basically the standard game gets nice decals like most new pins, the extra painted cabinets are directly painted on then high gloss with automotive wax ( it was described earlier). Not a must have but if you've got the money probably the painted cabinets look nicer.
Quoted from Frax:
Wha? Wax, or clear? Those are two vastly different things and I dunno about anyone else, but I wouldn't pony up 1k extra just for the cabinet to be direct print instead of a decal.
Wax costs 15 bucks and lasts me 2-3 years.. clearcoating a cab would likely cost me around 600 bucks if I got someone to do it local to me.
Sorry mean clear.
taken from this post
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:
The artwork wouldn't be stenciled. Rather than using decals, the artwork would be printed directly on the cabinet pieces using a direct print process.
Quoted from flynnibus:
They are apples and oranges.
One is a small batch game built on contract intended to be sold via retail. The price is going to reflect what the RETAIL guy wants to sell at.. and must fund the development cost and any profit desired on JUST THAT GAME. So the pressure on higher margin per unit is high.
The other is a volume game... but a game that includes a TON of non-standard parts, so it has to include a ton more overhead and benefits less than normal for economies of scale. Extra displays (the player scores probably add $200 in BOM costs alone..).. extra 2 digit displays... kickers everywhere... (which means coils and brackets everywhere...)... expensive controllers... etc.
They are both 'simple' games in terms of how busy the PF is... but have very different pressures on the pricing and are sold to different consumers.
I understand that Jetsons is a boutique pin and sold direct etc..
but just sitting side by side at the same price it's ridiculous (IMO).
I'm sure the build quality is fine on Jetsons but the layout, lighting looks basic. The main hole on the left side the ball just seems to fall in at random more often than actually get shot in, the GI was very dark (hard to say) but compared to TNA the lighting was night and say.
I know the rules may be designed for little kids like spell George, Spell Judy (etc.) but thats just so basic. A game can be simple for little folks but have enough interesting things to do like PotC. To me the game looks like $4K (I'm being generous).
Now if you say it's another $2K because it's rare thats one thing but to me, I want a game that looks and plays great not just a rare game and to think kids can't play a game unless it's rules are like spell six character names is ridiculous. I have kids play all my pins, maybe they don't understand the note shots on Acdc (does anyone really?) but they can understand hit the TNT shot, hit the bell etc..
can someone explain what is at the end of the three drop target bank?
Also how is the lock set up when you start the game? I mean are the drops down or up?
Also what is the multi ball jackpot? Is that hitting the drop targets?
Quoted from gweempose:
Played it a bunch last night. The game is fun as hell!
Wanted to ask especially from someone like you who owns a lot of games and not all from the last 20 years. Does it play like an 80s pin?
I got into collecting 13-4 years ago but the oldest game I've owned was BOP. Don't really have much experience on older pins.
Does TNA play like any other game you can think of?
Also I've read some people think they should get TNA as first or only pin. I was thinking it is especially great for me as I have 10 of the same type of games, SM etc.. so TNA would be like a real change. At the end of the day while IM is a shorter rule game it's still closer to SM than it is to TNA.
Quoted from gweempose:
I don't think there is any other game I've played that I can directly compare TNA to. While the somewhat simplistic layout is reminiscent of early SS games, the sheer speed, light and sound make it feel much more modern. I will say that it's probably the best multiplayer game I've ever encountered. We were playing it for dollars last night and had an absolute blast!
Thanks for the reply, can't wait to play it.
Quoted from moonduckie78:
did you get the free shaker?
Yes maybe last one.
I'm getting the butter cabinet too.
Haven't played it, but sounds like it will have great quality of materials.
It would have been tempting to cut some costs like the individual score displays or beacon topper or laser cut rails etc..
I'm so glad for this pin, plus supporting Spooky and all his workers etc..,
While everyone wants less expensive machines, I don't mind paying for quality and you can see and hear the passion and hard work plus pure talent going into this pin.
What is the highest build number? I'm curious if they won't start a batch until 50 units sold?
I'm guessing if they are at # 180 ( i.e. middle of 4th batch) they won't start building that batch until it reaches 200 to fill up the 4th batch.
I'm guessing that by the time my number comes into play #152 that they will have filled up the 4th batch.
Makes me sad that other manufacturers (cough Stern) use spots that insist on popping out right in the middle of a great game.
Been a week or more but did you guys check out the interview with Scott on Kenada's podcast?
Discusses the cost how nothing was cut from the BOM. I got the feeling that Scott is so down to earth.
Not discussed on the podcast, but I wanted to add how this project reminds me somewhat of Predator (not how it ended up) but how it started with so much energy and good vibes and what went wrong with Predator as opposed to TNA.
Also tells me Scott has a good head on his shoulders not just technology or design smarts but the whole package and getting Spooky on board made me infinitely more comfortable with ordering the pin. Aside from the lisense fiasco I had doubts Skit-B would be able to assemble the machines.
I thought (aside from the bogus lisense) the Skit-B guys had a good game that looked fun had some very interesting code ideas. If they had just made a generic alien/jungle theme it could have worked. It's like they were halfway there but you can't sell half a pinball machine (as Jpop has also show) its all or nothing.
Quoted from DCFAN:
Just for clarification for those that are not in technical career fields, scientists and engineers in the US do use the metric system and it is extensively used in problem solving in colleges for engineering and physics.
of course, I was a scientest myself and use metric as an MD.
One thing (metric vs non metric) has nothing to do with the other (landing on the moon).
I was just pointing out that some people like to look down on US as saying they are not all that. But the US was able to land on the moon, develop *a lot* of computer technology, develop *a lot* of medical breakthroughs, develop atomic energy, first in flight etc..
I know that there was a lot of help from other countries etc. but the US is at the forefront of a lot of innovations.
In fact the cause of US being able to develop a lot of this is because US is/was the richest country in the world ever. I believe much had to do with our being the first country to exploit and sell oil to the rest of the world (long before the Middle East even knew they had oil) as well as steel and industrial output. This led to the US being rich and powerful and were able to spend countless dollars on aerospace and computer technology.
The US does use metric measurements sometimes for example car engines are listed as CC's instead of CI displacement, soda is sold in 2L bottles and nutrition labels are in metric as well..
It is interesting that other countries like UK still will use some English Units while also using metric as well. For example they will describe engine TQ as lb ft but will measure the length in CM and the weight in KG. In fact UK car magazines list 0-62 MPH times for cars which is 0-100 Km/hr. UK still uses the description of MPG on cars and sells beer in pints instead of some metric volume.
In the US we will have 5K runs and 100 Meter dash but we will still use yards and pounds for other things.
I am interested in world history as well as science history. A great book:
"The Making of the Atomic Bomb".
Actually not as OT as I was thinking, since this is about Nuclear Annihilation LOL
a) the US didn't do everything by themselves (IOW other scientists such as Einstein, Teller etc. were not Americans)
b) the US was the only countrie capably of doing this at the time due to our wealth and power as well as our scientists homegrown or imported.
c) if US didn't do it (at that time) doesn't mean that it would not have been done sometime in the future. IOW just because US developed the bomb doesn't mean we US is solely responsible for nuclear proliferation (I mean some other country would have done it).
Here is something I find hard to believe :
When President Roosevelt died on April 12, 1945, Vice President Harry S. Truman became the 33rd President of the United States. Until then, Truman had not been told of the Manhattan Project, but he was quickly briefed on the secrets of the atomic bomb development.
I just can't imagine that a project this big was a secret and that the VP was not aware of it regardless.
Quoted from FatPanda:
Quoted from Grizlyrig:
You won't find anything like it. Spooky does unique stuff. Look at AMH or RZ...nothing like it! Remember this machine is from Scott's head, a basement project that went viral! Good times are here.
I have so many similar pins, love them but nothing like TNA.
Quoted from 27dnast:
A little off topic. But trying to gauge what's going on at the Spooky shop: is it true that the Jetsons has been reduced from a run of 300 to a run of 100?
Wouldn't doubt it, but probably they're not making any announcement that'd be like Stern saying they're only going to make 100 WWE LEs it may not be good for business to say if the game is not selling.
First have not had the good fortune of playing TNA but love what I've seen.
I have not heard any bad reviews of TNA and that's a big part. I have only bought two pins without first playing them. (most of my pins, I have played several times before buying).
My second NIB pin also I had never played, this time it was Tron and I read a lot of reviews and watched a lot of videos and talked to people who owned it. I had a good feeling about Tron and in spite of never playing it, and it was on my first play and still is one of my all time favorite pins.
TNA gives me the feeling that I will love the gameplay, and I feel like it is a nicely different than my other pins both rules and layout.
I am sucker for a good light show and that was the first thing that I was attracted to even when it was a white wood. The art (not a huge fan initially) has grown on me. The music (not a huge fan initially) has also grown on me.
Most people who have played it have said it is really fun and that's the main thing I am about when buying a pinball machine. Plus I think it has been awarded best in show over some more pedigree games which tells me it's not only a pretty light show.
I think the quality and build will be good to great. I don't know why exactly, but from listening to Scott on several interviews how he fought to keep the expensive parts rather than cutting the cost down to make some specific price target or profit margin, and just looking at the gameplay footage it doesn't seem to be cheaply made at all.
I like the fact that the code appears well evolved and aside from ball search (while the ball was in the lock on the early prototype) it seems to be solid.
I am electing to buy TNA rather than AFM for example because it's so new and unique and while AFM is awesome it's also something that I've played for the past 13 years from time to time and doesn't bring a lot new to the table and I do have other ramp and orbit type pins that can substitute for AFM (such as Met or IM or AcDc and even SM).
Anyway, for those who have played it and are buying it or not can you say what made you decide? To me, it looks like it has a chance to be a very special game and while not cheap, it seems like it's correctly priced, and simple (layout) that does not mean it's a bare bones pin and a lot of time/money is evident below the surface (more than meets the eye) and is probably evident while playing that this pins has more going on that the moving parts and lack of toys would seem to suggest.
PS Scott, Charley and company seem very motivated both passionate but also skilled and put a lot on the line to make this successful. It does not appear to me that profit is the main motivation behind TNA.
- regarding rules I was over a buddy's house he had a little cheat sheet to help him with GOT he needed to consult while playing.
I've owned AcDc for 4 years and still don't understand the 'note shots'.
I know Kaneda is not well liked here but his interview with Scott he described how video games play. Donkey Kong etc which is a simple set of moves and rules but get harder as you advance. To me reminds me of Pac-Man when I was a kid sure it's basic rules but great fun only pinball adds a layer of physical and randomness you can't get from a video game.
Maybe it's been answered, what happens if you are critical, does the reactor ever begin to recover if you don't make the required shots in time (countdown)? Seems like that might add some more pressure.
Quoted from TigerLaw:
Does the game need more pressure? I haven't seen anyone get past reactor four...seems like there is more than enough pressure already.
My question is what makes Iron-Man DOD hurry up shot such a great shot? Is it just making the shot or is it the time pressure combined with making the shot?
Could even be a menu option, tons of pins have difficulty settings people like to tinker with such as SM if one aspect is too easy or too hard I can make a menu adjustment.
Quoted from Aurich:
Play it first. I know it's a weird and wacky concept on this here Pinside website thingy, but trying a game to see if you like it before spending thousands of dollars is actually a pretty neat idea!
If you list your location people near you might even invite you over to play their's, you never know.
That's what's so great about TNA
Had this been MG or RZ with a low limited number and people thought they had to buy it before it sells out. But with TNA and how the production is open ended and how it's being built slowly over many months it's more likely to be able to play it before buying.
I did order before TNA before playing it, but I believe it's very unlikely to disappoint me.
I know nuclear power plants don't blow up so much as melt down.
But I love a good mushroom cloud.
Fun fact back in the day you were allowed to view nuclear bomb testing near Las Vegas, you all thought an eclipse was fun, can you imagine a nuclear bomb test?
Quoted from FatPanda:
For those at the stream last night, was the table really short? We were looking at the camera showing the side of the cabinet, and it stood below the waist on most people. All of my tables stand at the waist or higher. I'm 5'8". Just thought it was strange.
Because no ramp the glass is more parallel to the PF so not as high in back. But probably the same in front.
I've played the remake with the large LCD-DMD and it's very nice and has a great light show, great game all around.
I'm curious what people would say to those who might be considering TNA and/or AFMr?
I've not played TNA, but I'm getting it instead of AFM because it's so different than most of my pins. I understand layout/shot map is just one aspect of a game. There is theme, art, lights, toys, and most importantly rules that make games feel different so IM is not Met pro is not AcDc is not SM but you can see them related to AFM.
Correct, I fixed my post.
Can I get any new reviews from people who have played it recently, did it live up to expectations is it better or worse than you imagined?
Closest (comparison) to me was Predator.
What I mean Predator was a new game, new designer, exciting gameplay video, lots of buz, decent bad price, home brew or boutique pin.
Predator was different than TNA because it was licensed (falsely claimed), had no previous building experience behind it (like Spooky) there was a lot of question marks around Predator and it stalled in the pre production stage. So I don't want to relate too much with the comparison to TNA. But my point is, I never played Predator, but it was played at various shows and I believe that was where is fell down even before the production, pre-pay fiasco. I read many reviews saying it was just meh.
I just want back to refresh my memory of Predator (before the fiasco) and the game reviews were mixed to poor. At the shows people said it was constantly breaking down, ball stuck, long ball times, some said just not fun to play. And people seemed to be buying it for the theme more than anything else.
For me once IMVE was released at the same price it didn't even make sense to buy a Predator because I was not in love with the Predator theme, and I figured IMVE same price, proven production, proven rules was a much safer buy.
Opposite that TNA looks rock solid although I have not watched all the video streams, I saw one ball stuck way back on the first video (when the game didn't know a ball was locked). Everyone seems to love the gameplay, I have never heard anyone say meh about TNA. It's 100% more put together than Predator, much better art and build quality and is shipping now so no questions there.
I just like to hear more reviews of people who have played it.
Quoted from Cheeks:
Wow! No offense, but in pretty much every way conceivable, this is about the FURTHEST comparison you could make.
Not really the FUTRHEST by any menas lol, if you read my post, new designer (check), home brew (check), decent price (check), presented on Pinside via gameplay video (check).
I did specify that TNA is way more in that it has production (Spooky) and is shipping now. But on first announcement of TNA it was simply a playable white wood pin without any production or distribution set up.
Quoted from benheck:
Except for the fact it shoots well, was built by a smart person instead of a dumb baby factory redneck, and the company owners are buying a house after shipping 700 games instead of 0.
Other than that, exactly the same, yeah.
7 months ago Spooky was not involved with TNA at least not openly.
I can see by all the down votes no one read my entire post.
I was referring to TNA half a year ago when it was revealed, it did not have Spooky making it which is what you are referring to and I spelled that out fully.
Scott is far more skilled etc.. and TNA shoots well and the game doesn't lock up or get stuck balls. I said big difference was Scott has got Spooky on board and the game has overwhelming positive reviews (unlike Predator).
I was not saying TNA is the same as Predator, just the initial buzz was very good for both games until Predator went south. But don't forget Predator sold out with a waiting list, so initially it was not viewed the way it is now.
Sorry I won't say the 'P' word again.
I recall watching the early p- videos and being excited to have something other than Stern or (the much delayed JJP games) as a new option and though if p- was successful maybe other people would be making small batch pins other than the mega companies.
Quoted from 27dnast:
Rai - I thought you put money down to buy the game? I'm confused.
I did put money down just trying to hear more from people who have played it especially people who have played it for the first time as it's now in production rather than as a prototype many months ago.
I was interested in more reviews, everyone seems to love it.
I really think the production game is very nicely presented and doesn't look homebrew at all, looks very polished and stable.
I don't mean to say home brew in a bad sense more that it started out that way but quickly became very professional looking.
Quoted from Crile1:
I get what your feeling rai . For me, this is the first time I've done the deposit/preorder thing. I haven't had the opportunity to play it yet, either. And I was a little nervous that maybe I pulled the trigger too early and got caught up in the hype. But I am grateful to Jack Danger, Scott, and the Spooky crew for the streams and transparency. This is exactly the type of game I have been wanting to add to my collection. Every stream and picture gets me more excited and secure in my decision. I hate the wait, but I am confident in the team and their product.
Me too. Especially looking at the build quality and how neat and tidy everything looks under the PF.
I've yet to hear anything bad about TNA, Except on a podcast someone said it was one flipper more prominent shots (but you can say that about a lot of games).
Quoted from mbaumle:
quite honestly, perhaps the best music and light package in a game released in the last few years.
I used to think STLE had the best light show, but then I got Woz and found it so much better because of the way the lights changed intensity and softer roll off or fade.
Some games overpower you with bright lights but don't know how to tone it down so you are more impressed when the lights do kick in at full power.
I'm curious how TNA light show compares to Woz or DI? Hard to tell actual how it will look from watching the video (I watched Woz video all the time didn't know how great it was until I got it in my game room with my preferred lighting).
Quoted from mbaumle:
TNA light shows are definitely more understated than either of those games.
It looks like TNA drew some inspiration from those Capcom games with the CPU controlled lights under the plastics. It's not a rainbow color explosion like Woz is, instead using larger chunks of solid colors with light shows that are far more reaching, since they extend beyond inserts. Light insert colors are also consistent--unlike DI where you'll have one insert changing into like 5 different colors all the time even though it's indicating the same function. Fade and strobing are used interchangeably, so it has a refined look as well. The result is a game that has a surprisingly strong light show impact without it being like ridiculously hard to follow--which is a problem that I have with both DI and WoZ.
Thanks for the reply
Can you say is it like STLE or GOT LE, Better or worse?
I typically play in semi dark game room.
Quoted from Whysnow:
Nope, mine is still mint with no blemishes
Game is getting heavy play and playing really well!
I have seen lots of smiling faces the past few days. it is so refreshing to see more and more new faces getting engaged in pinball because of this game!
do you have any audits for average ball time?
At first I wasn't, I was having Pirates remorse but now I am zen with my decision to buy TNA.
I was thinking holy hell look at that JJPOTC it's gnarly. But at the end of the day TNA is still TNA and they are not antagonists. Pirates v TH that's a kick in the nuts, but TNA is a different pin-animal.
Quoted from OffshoreTrucker:
Played it today. They were still setting it up when I got there. AMAZING Pin! After reading about it on here, amazing to actually play it. Managed to get about 4-5 reactors. Light show and sounds... HNgggg!
Edit on reactors... Pretty sure it was 4-5, rush from playing at the time. Posted a 2,012,420 score.
I haven’t watched a lot of gameplay video, how does it ratchet up the difficulty to the next higher reactor?
Quoted from FatPanda:
After completing the keypad (3X3 grid) you activate the reactor by hitting the left scoop. Once the reactor is activated, you can shoot either orbit to get the ball to the upper pf. Once in the upper pf, you knock the ball around to overheat the reactor (spinner on left orbit does this also) to 100%. When the reactor is overheated, the GI starts pulsing red, and there are random inserts that flash white. The first reactor is one shot, second reactor 2 shots, etc.
Activating multiball while destroying a reactor will multiply the reactor value. So 3 balls in play while blowing up a reactor will give you 3x reactor value. You can also score jackpots by hitting the inline drop targets. The first drop target gets you 1x jackpot, second 2x, third 3x, and finally scoop is super jackpot. The targets come back up after a certain amount of time, so you have to hit those drops in succession quickly to get to the scoop in the back.
The best I did at the PBL open house was 3 reactors (default is extra ball at or on the 3rd reactor).
I think that covers the basic gist of it. Most shots are dangerous shots, especially the keypad, but you need to hit it to advance the game. I just love this game. I keep saying it, but I cannot wait!
I think what I’m missing, is it more difficult to qualify each next reactor (more shots to the 3x3 the grid)? And once the reactor is activated does it take more hits to overheat (get to 100%)?
Was that also 1M ball ejects and auto launches? I’m trying to figure how this was tested.
Quoted from Whysnow:
they made a contraption where the ball shooting up into lane like normal, launches like normal (actually 2 balls constantly going i think), and thet then screwed divertors into the pf so one ball goes to each pf scoop, fires out of each scoop (one going right over the holes where drop targets are supposed to be) and both balls go back to trough.
cycle on repeat constantly.
There is no doubt about it that this is the highest quality playfield we have seen for durability yet from spooky (possibly anywhere in common day)
Thanks, that would also lead to testing the scoop and ball ejector mechanisms, that's impressive.
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:
Thanks to operator feedback, Spooky is fully aware of a couple small issues that have come up. All production games made from now, will have these issues addressed.
This is what I love regarding Spooky, I had STLE and had drop target reset issue which required washers to fix but my understanding was Stern was never addressing this issue, I mean this was just a recurring issue with Stern drop targets they just didn't care to make any effort to fix, just a service bulletin.
Here is the issue with Stern drop targets, they go back to a 2006 service bulletin, you can see people having the same issue with AcDc, Avengers, WPT, ST etc. instead of fixing the drop targets Stern expects the end users to install washers.