When people see the final reveal it's going to sell like crazy, you can quote me on that.
When people see the final reveal it's going to sell like crazy, you can quote me on that.
Oh Pinside, someone shows their game and all everyone can do is ask for changes. Luckily Scott won't pay any attention to any of it, but FFS. It's in good hands, and if you don't like the final result don't buy it. But let the man do his thing.
Game I'd compare it to is Flash Gordon. That's a big compliment too as far as I'm concerned. TNA is probably the only game I'd sell my Flash Gordon for now that I've downsized my pin space and only keep 5 running.
Fuck Iron Man, it's nothing like it. Just because that's a basic ass Stern doesn't really make it compare in any way. So don't get hung up on that, there's nothing to it.
Quoted from kvan99:
Ok disclaimer: I'm in no way knocking Scott's hombrew game. Heck I could never make one, but wouldn't be a problem to do the same thing over and over again for 5 reactors, sorry I've never played the game. I've only watched the video a few times. You bring the reactors online, overloaded and destroy it. Same shots for each reactor..right? Again not trolling just wondering if that's the idea or maybe I missed something.
Have you ever played an 80s Bally game?
This is a member of the community, making his own game, and *some* (not all!) of you are just walking in and shitting on his front lawn with some of these comments. If this was your friend making this game would you tell him to read these comments? Do you think it would make him feel good?
Scott is my friend. Someone who's put so much of his heart and soul into pinball, who has a vision for a game, that he's executing and utterly excited about. His vision was always for a brightly colored game. If that's not for you then so be it, that's fine. He's loving the art. I've seen more than some of you, and I love it too. I'm excited for the whole package reveal.
You don't have to like it. You can even say so. But he's right here reading all this, would you say these things to his face? Maybe just be a little polite about it at least.
Maybe stop and think for 5 seconds before you hit post, and just ask yourself if you're being a jerk. Trust me, it's not fun to read people doing this to you, and there's no reason to subject him to it if you actually care about the community and people sharing their work.
Just have a little common courtesy for one of our own. That's all I'm saying.
Quoted from rai:
I didn't think it was going to be a female lead character, seems unrealistic.
And then we have this gem. It must suck to not have any strong women in your life, I feel for you, but it doesn't make your comment any less stupid and ignorant. Happy Mother's Day.
Quoted from VolunteerPin:
Aurich I would upvote you multiple times if possible. Great post!
Thank you, I appreciate it, because I feel very strongly about this subject. We need to support our own, not tear them down.
You might not have liked my first draft of the post so much, I was pretty harsh. And you know what? I stopped, even walked away from the computer for a bit, and then edited it several times. Because being a jerk myself wasn't going to help anything, or make people listen to me.
I've been guilty of doing this myself, I don't hold myself above anyone else. I was a real asshole about GOT after it was revealed. And then I met Greg Freres and heard how it all made him feel and felt like a giant jerk. You're not railing against faceless, anonymous people here, they read, they have feelings. Just try and keep that in mind. I know I do.
Quoted from rai:
It was a joke, some of you guys need unclench.
It didn't read like a joke. I'm glad to hear it was, but consider that tone doesn't translate well to text, it just looked like another sexist comment, amongst several others.
Quoted from frolic:
I don't get the "complaining about the complaining". Who cares? Scott apparently doesn't. So if he doesn't, then let it go. Let people give their opinions about it, even if they hate it and say so.
We've been told Scott doesn't read this thread, for his own peace, and I would do the same thing. This isn't even a Pinside thing, this is an internet thing. People are going to comment on stuff, good and bad, and its ridiculous to think that ANYONE can please everyone, and have everyone else shut up about it.
This post is factually incorrect, and I'll leave it at that.
Quoted from kvan99:
Anytime you have to explain your art or story to the audience, you've missed the mark.
Of all the dumb things people have said in this thread this is definitely the most stupid.
I don't want to live in a world that has no mystery and imagination, our culture has become spoon fed enough already.
Quoted from greenhornet:
IMHO I believe your estimate to be rather optimistic. I feel the initial excitement for this title from 3 months ago has lost some of its momentum. if the game is produced as it stands, I don't see it being a commercial success.
Based on what? A thread where there isn't anything to talk about? Hype is fleeting and stupid, good games speak for themselves. If it's fun and looks great people will buy it, no one cares about 3 months ago.
Quoted from Cheeks:
Whether anyone likes the art direction or not, I still don't understand why it's being likened to anime!
Because it features a woman, and she has purple hair, and that's what people who aren't actually into anime think of when they see it. Personally I think of Jubilee from the 90s X-Men cartoon. Not because they actually look anything alike, it's just the goggles and something about the style. Funny how those first impressions look.
The full package will be cohesive and own it's own style, and that will all fade. And no game is for everyone, impossible to please the masses.
I won't lie, Scott and I are friends and I've been helping some behind the scenes and I've seen sekrit stuff, and I personally think the final game's look is going to be amazing. Bright, colorful, well thought out, and combined with the bumping music and RGB light show I think it's going to really stand out in any collection or location. I know I want one.
I get the people who want Centaur III: The Reckoning or want it more Fallout-like or whatever. I dig the dark stuff too, if I was doing my fantasy "modern solid state" it would have witches and skulls. Just let go of that for this game, and remember that the whole point was colorful, 80's neon, chromed out, not gritty and dark and evil.
My two cents, take it or leave it.
Quoted from Pinballlew:
I would be interested in a wood version with limited graphics on the playfield. I don't know why I like the look of wood grain for the playfield, but I do. Pinball Circus playfield to me looks great. I just think if the playfield had a wood background the RGB inserts would pop.
That's just me though and this is Scott's vision. I am excited to see the finished game.
That's too much wood for my personal tastes, but I do love how in the EM era they incorporated the bare wood into the design, and used it like a flat color for areas. Like you I've thought about how it's a shame that we don't really do that much anymore, but you'd have to find the right game theme and design for it to feel right.
I love how the flames are done with the wood at the bottom of Abra Ca Dabra for instance.
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:
My word was "anime-ish". Like the previous poster stated, I'm not a consumer of anime, so to the non-follower of the genre this is the closest thing I could relate the backglass to. The reason I said it is because of the pseudo cartoonish style, young woman action character with colorful hair, etc.
I think that makes perfect sense. I also get why Cheeks thinks it doesn't, just look at my Jubilee comparison. Once you see them together they don't look alike at all, but you can also see why in my head I made the connection. Early impressions are about feelings more than clinical comparisons.
It's the ramp bias. No one talks about keeping prices low if there are ramps. Take them off and suddenly it's all about how the BOM must be super low.
I don't mean that to pick on anyone, it's just the funny way we seem to view pins.
Spooky isn't the kind of shop that ships thousands of games, maybe they never will be I dunno, but hopefully this can at least do RZ numbers. I'm hoping for better, it would be amazing to see a real old school design taken to a modern extreme do well in 2017.
The reason I'm so hype about this game isn't just that I'm friends with Scott, or that I think it's fun, or that the final package will look amazing. All true. But honestly this is my dream, if I built a pin from scratch myself it's what I'd do, a modern interpretation of an early 80s Bally, fast and mean, simple with with modern twists. I badly want this to succeed just to feed my own personal wish fulfillment.
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:
Id say it was more like early RZ in terms of depth, and less than the final AMH.
I'm sure you're right, but these kind of games aren't about depth, they're about kicking your ass, but in a way that makes you want to try again. Like Donkey Kong, it's not a modern Zelda, it's not an open world game you can approach a ton of ways, it's just simple and hard, with a tease that makes you want to fire it up one more time, get a little further.
That's why I love my Flash Gordon. It's not deep at all, but there's just something magic about firing it up, going for broke, and getting your ass handed to you. When you have a good game and get a little deeper than usual it's amazing, you live for those rare games where you're owning it, and hitting those dope lit spinner sounds, getting the multiplier racked up to 5x.
It's not an easy formula, for every great simple game there are 100 that are just okay or a little boring. But I feel like Scott has nailed it, and the light show and sounds (and the final art) I think bring it to that next level.
Sorry for gushing, this is my bias zone here.
Pic stolen from the SFGE thread on TNA, it's packed under there.
Quoted from Fytr:
I have to say that I don't get the high-price "none-apologists" that have emerged lately on pinside and podcasts, etc.
Suddenly no pinball machine could possibly be made for less than $6K USD, and Stern's gutted System 11-like features on a Pro model is a "steal" at $5400.
Okay, but the flip side is the ignorant people who don't understand what it actually costs to design and build a pin, especially for smaller companies without as many resources (and the bigger companies that have the resources have their own large overheads).
It's time to retire the $2500 The Pin example, it's utterly irrelevant to the conversation.
Quoted from Fytr:
Anyway, by all means, argue with each over how much higher the price of TnA should be and watch its sales potential collapse. I guess the way the math works it's better for the manufacturers to milk the high end and produce far fewer units, that way profits are high and they don't need to produce as many games. Less games = less games out there, so more future sales potential. Basically every game is a limited run now.
Yeah, no, it's not like that. Yes, Spooky has done limited runs, because they're a new manufacturer trying to generate sales. AMH wasn't moving until they limited it and people realized it was get in now or miss out.
But this idea that the price is inflated is simply nonsense. They're going to have to fight to keep the BOM down enough to make this game worth building at a price people will stomach.
A personal plea:
I am so happy for Scott and this reveal, what an amazing thing to come true after so much work.
The art on this game will not appeal to everyone. It's impossible, you can't ever make everyone happy; hand drawn, photoshopped, whatever. Some will wish it was darker and more Mad Max, some will wish it had a male hero, some people just don't like purple, whatever. That's fine!
But if it's not for you could you please find a way to express that politely? Do it for Scott, do it for the artist, do it for me, do it for Batman's dead parents. Make Pinside the place where these personal dream projects are celebrated and we can be excited.
God damn this looks so good. Confession, I've seen the art already, but not installed on a real game, what a great package.
If you haven't seen this game in person yet the RGB light show is incredible, and with the full color playfield instead of a bare white wood it's going to pop even harder.
Seriously, this is my modern solid state dream pin, hats of to Scott and Spooky, can't wait to play the full game!
And those white score displays, unf! Robin where is my drooling face emoticon?
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:
The comparisons to 80s pins crack me up, because they are silly. It's usually people who haven't played the game that think it's sparse or like an 80s game in any way.
I dunno, it's like early 80s Bally games to me, but that's a wonderful thing. Buying TNA is probably the only thing that would make me give up my Flash Gordon, because I need space and it will scratch the same itch. Hard, brutal, fast, and tons of fun. Can play over and over. Great for multiplayer games that aren't snooze fests while people wait for long ball times.
There are people who don't get that a game without ramps can be fun. That's fine. Some of them will feel that way no matter what they play, cool, but I think there are probably many who just haven't played a well set up 1980/81 Bally and don't know yet what they're missing. They think there's not much to do, or it's slow EM-like play. TNA will probably contribute to the price jacking on those old games once people realize what they've been missing.
Quoted from Manic:
I think it's crazy to yell at people who don't like the art as it's subjective.
It's not crazy to tell people they're being assholes when they say stupid things like the artist must be an intern because Spooky and Scott are cheap and lazy though. Scott, Charlie, and Matt are right here, reading this thread ffs.
Don't like the art, who cares. But show some class. Some of the people in this thread wouldn't be welcome in my house, that's for damn sure.
Quoted from rosh:
Has there ever been machine with an art package that has been universally loved?
Never. It shouldn't even be a goal, it's not a reasonable thing to even want. Matt delivered what Scott wanted, and it's up to people to decide if they want to buy it or not, or even just enjoy it.
Is TNA my dream game? In some ways it really is, in others not even close. But I'm not projecting my dreams onto it, I'm happy to see Scott have his come to light. Plus it's f—king fun, and at the end of the day that counts more than anything else.
The main thing is you can be critical or not like something without being personal and nasty. Calling it intern work is laughable, you blow your whole credibility just saying that, but it's also intentionally insulting.
Just don't be a jerk, how hard is that?
All these "what if" questions are missing the point. Of course I'm happy for Scott. But you know why I'm excited? Because I've played the game, and it's f—king fun. If it wasn't fun none of this would matter.
Enough with the sports mentality, companies aren't teams, and you don't have to wear their jerseys. If Stern made an awesome game like this then great, more awesome games, I'd buy it.
I pitched a RZ game years ago. Spooky built one. I didn't like how it came out, so I didn't buy it. What matters is the game, not the logo on it.
Quoted from Rasavage:
I think it's going to beat Charlie and Scott's predictions.
I really hope so. Not because Scott is my friend (he is), or that I wish good things for Spooky (I do), but because seeing a game like this be successful would feel like a really healthy thing for the pinball industry. We need different ideas to thrive, and I'd especially love to see more success for unlicensed themes.
Quoted from greenhornet:
while a positive should it happen, the health of the industry is going to ride on bigger issues like companies actually building and delivering games they have already sold, completing code on games they have already sold, and new manufacturers establishing themselves vs failing.
Nah, none of that is what I'm talking about. Hundred boring threads to hash that out already, not gonna waste space in this one on it.
Quoted from Chosen_S:
benheck you can't argue with this logic, please help the game be all it can be.
What logic? The game doesn't look exactly how you want it to, so they should change it to make you happy?
I don't mean to be rude to you, but you're couching your own personal tastes as somehow logic that can't be dismissed, and that's just silly.
It's not changing. Nothing anyone says in this thread is going to make Scott change his vision. If you don't want to buy it then cool. But there's nothing wrong with the art.
Quoted from stpcore:
Where Scott's vision may not change I'm fairly confident that Scott and Spooky are listening to suggestions from the community. There is no harm in listening to feedback that is offered politely, sincerely, and with good intentions.
But don't tell people they have to listen to you, know what I mean? Scott didn't ask for suggestions, he's not in here discussing things or asking for feedback. You're offering unsolicited advice, he's already shown the complete game.
He wants to change something, that's great for him. But he's under no obligation to even listen to your idea that you wrote on the internet.
Quoted from VacFink:
Every video of that light show and the action suggests that anything more visually would be a distraction to the massive effort put into designing an immersive fast pinball experience.
When a gameplay video comes out showing the lighting with the art people will have a better sense for what you're talking about here if they're not seeing it yet. Doesn't mean there weren't other options, but this approach is deliberate and will look amazing lit up. In my opinion of course! But I've played the game with early lighting code, and it was already great.
Quoted from stpcore:
I just don't think it's fair to suggest that the community not waste their time making suggestions because they will be ignored and what's done is done. In all fairness I'm not sure that's what you are saying but that's kind of how I read it.
You read it right, and it's about about being fair or not, it's just a fact. The game is done, the art is done, Scott isn't soliciting suggestions. It is what it is. If you come to terms with that you'll be happier, IMHO.
You know why I feel strongly about this stuff? Because I know exactly what it's like to present a playfield to Pinside, and what it feels like to read all the comments. And when people are shitty it feels awful.
Alien's playfield was full of compromises, the license really tied my hands. I agreed with a lot of the criticism myself, couldn't even defend it because I was basically gagged, and yet still people made it really personal.
I'm not a forum cop, this isn't about double standards, whatever that even means. I'm attempting to ask for a little empathy for the people who've worked hard, who are members of our community, who are doing their best and IMHO deserve at least a little bit of respect.
Just because you can say something doesn't mean you should. Stop for 10 seconds, think about how it might make the people involved feel, and then post it if you still feel it's right. That's all.
Quoted from Fortytwo:
Although everyone is allowed their own opinion. That's also does not entitle you creative input in others opinion.
That's a good way to say it too.
Have opinions! Share them! Whatever, do you. I'd personally plead again to be nice about it, because we're a community and this is one of our own and it would be a shame if we couldn't at least respect each other enough to do that.
But if you don't want a logo between the flippers whatever, say so, that's fine.
I'm just saying that there's a difference between "I like, I don't like" and "Scott/Spooky should". Don't plead with Ben to lobby to change things. Don't present your opinion as fact.
Accept that this is the vision, in this case there was blessedly no license to have to work around, and what's presented is what was wanted.
I'm done having this argument, either you get it or you don't. But people here can be really shitty, it doesn't make anyone on the other side of it feel good, and I think it's worth stopping to try and have a little empathy and consider what kind of a forum you want this to be.
Quoted from CaptainNeo:
Yes, playfields telling the story and the objectives is something that seems to be going by the wayside. Especially by JJP. If you can't look at the field with the game off, and figure out easy things like locks and extra balls, then someone has failed in the plastics/playfield art department.
There's room for lots of styles in pinball still I think. Nothing wrong with the ridiculously deep Keefer game that relies on color changing lights and LCD clues etc, my issue is I only want one or two of those at any given time. They require so much commitment, I tend to walk past them when I'm not in the mood for a really long game that requires planning and thinking and just a chunk of uninterrupted time.
On the other hand I've owned a handful of great Bally solid states like Flash Gordon, and Fathom, Eight Ball Deluxe, Medusa, Mystic, etc, and the ability to just fire them up, play some games, have a good time, and be done has a ton of appeal for me.
It really becomes a factor when you want to play with friends though. 4 player Hobbit or LOTR can be painful. Hell even 4 player Metallica can drag on forever. We can run a 4 player game on my Flash Gordon, set to 5 balls, before someone else has finished their first ball on Metallica if they're having a good one.
Quoted from PanzerFreak:
Is there a write up out there of some of the games rules? Is a story being told in the game? Will there be objective based modes
I feel like you're not really grocking this game, it's not about story and modes, it's about simple objectives that are hard to actually accomplish. It's about fast and furious and ass kicking, and you want more.
Have you spent any time with '80s Bally games? They had a theme, and a vibe, but it wasn't about telling you a story, it was about setting an atmosphere and then letting you loose to try and survive it.
TNA has an LCD screen and modern touches that will elevate it a bit beyond that, but not much, at its core it's still that simple but hard game, and that's the appeal. It's the antithesis to modern Sterns, to the 30 mode JJP games, to the long and detailed journey that Keefer likes to give you.
Ironically I feel like the simple games sometimes have more replay value. I know a lot of people with games like LOTR that they love, but also never actually play. It's just such a huge commitment to fire it up. This is the opposite, pinball that's just fun to play, without needing a free hour, but you can play for that long if you want. Hopefully with some friends!
Quoted from trunchbull:
I like everything about it except for the bonkers speed.
Wouldn't be as hard or fun without that!
Can't wait to try the cleacoat version, gonna be even more nuts.
Slow solid states with long ball times are boring. When you have a good ball on a hard and fast game it's special and satisfying.
BTW — I'm not throwing shade at Keefer (one of the best in the game) or LOTR (a classic), just glad we have other options. My collection has been reduced, I devote more space to vids now, but I try and keep a variety of styles.
If you only buy say modern Sterns that's fine, but you're missing out on other ways to play and enjoy pinball.
1980 Ballys aren't for everyone, but a modern take, with the NIB experience and eye candy, just might be what you were missing.
I think this game will do well. But I also hope it does well. Pinball needs games like this to be successful. Imho.
Exactly. And if you have people over to play? Modern style games take too damn long for it. It's boring to wait for your turn. It's rad to have a game you can play 4 people on and people don't wander off during gameplay.
The LCD and light show etc will help people who are watching too. There's more eye candy.
I like social pinball, but the patience required for even a game like my Metallica is a drag. Two players is fine. 4 is playable, but can be trying.
Imho every collection should have at least one game that's fast and simple but hard. And TNA offers all the modern bells and whistles and NIB experience, so if a game from 37 years ago isn't for you I get it, but maybe this is the answer.
Quoted from davijc02:
I picked up the pinball bug a year ago and have introduced my friends to it at a few parties that i've had. Its interesting to sit back and watch people re-discover pinball and be able to explain rules to them and make them see its more than just random ball slapping.
I often find modern games difficult to introduce new players to. You can just give them a simple goal, "shoot Sparky" but it's more fun to have them actually playing the whole game, and the depth of a game like Metallica is hard to grasp for new players. Even if they've got natural hand eye coordination and shoot well, they just don't get what to do without some experience. Stacking the lane inserts and tracking progress across multiple features takes practice.
Metallica is also one of my favorite games, have an LE. It's just about balance for me.
Quoted from wantdataeast:
I am really not sure why a new pinball manufacture would take advantage of themes that are in the public domain that have a cult following.. Like War of the Worlds, or Sherlock Holmes, Something from classic sci-fi literature Jules Vernes, HG Wells, etc.
On the other hand I am really not sure why people have this insistence on having their ideas pre-chewed. It's exceedingly rare that someone actually tackles an original theme and idea these days in pinball, and all you can say is "why didn't they do something I'm already familiar with?"
What a boring world it would be if movies were only sequels and franchises (it feels that way sometimes already!) and the only stories that people told were rehashes of ones you already knew. Licenses are crutches, and used to be disdained in the game world, instead of seen as the only possible way to make games.
You can not like the theme and the music and whatever else, that's your prerogative, and I for one wouldn't down vote you for that. But I do wish people would support original pinball more before they start running back to the license teat.
Go Spooky and Scott, show the people original ideas are rad!
Haha, not coming from me!
Quoted from SpookyCharlie:
we are well past the first batch of 50 now
Quoted from herg:
Where are you guys seeing machine numbers? I have an order confirmation, but don't see any numbers in that range. Not that it really matters all that much,but having a ballpark wait time would be nice.
You can ask KT, I was told I'm #75. Definitely putting my money where my mouth is on this title.
Wrote a check since that helps Spooky, and since there's no rush right now everyone should if you can IMHO. Fees add up!
Quoted from SpookyKT:
Good night peace out I am turning off my phone & crawling in bed!!
Get some sleep, you've earned it! Check is in the mail.
Quoted from rai:
Pardon never played it, but I hear some people say it's like an updated EM.
I dunno who said that, but they either haven't played it either, or haven't ever played an EM. Zero relationship aside from "hitting a ball with flippers at stuff".
I think some people with more limited experience playing different eras of pinball think anything that doesn't have ramps is all lumped into the same category. TNA has much more in common with your Iron Man than it does any EM ever made.
Ah, yes, that's entirely accurate, since the whole idea of the game was to take the feel of those 1980 solid states and build a modern version of it.
I'm a fan of modern games. I'm a fan of 1980 Ballys. You can definitely like both.
But I think TNA will be a much more appealing game to people who aren't already fans of the older games. It has the modern bells and whistles you're used to, just the spirit of the old play. High quality sound, RGB lighting, LCD display, clear coated playfield, warranty support from a non-dead company, all that good stuff.
If you're not sure then wait to play one. Or wait for more video on the final game, it's coming.
They're actually about the ball, and the playfield, and not just lining up shots that return to the flipper. Nothing wrong with ramps! But I'm looking for a physical pinball experience, something interesting. Star Wars is probably fun, but it's a very familiar layout and it's likely that the fun is mostly in the code. Cool, but I have an amazing wealth of video games already, I want something that's more about physics and wildness.
It's not actually easy to do, there's a reason the fan layout is so popular. But in the early solid state days they weren't afraid to experiment, and they didn't have the 'flow' crutch holding them back. You had wacky widebodies like Scorpion, which is a really fun game that probably not enough people have even played.
I wouldn't want all new games to be like TNA, but I hope this isn't the last one. I know if I built the dream game I've kicked around in my head for a while it would be similar, albeit with a different vision.
The correct answer is a dollar ... on the glass, 4 player game, winner takes the dollars.
Expo isn't the place to be like it used to be, been building towards this for years now.
I believe it will be at Pinball Life's party instead, so just do that!
Quoted from konjurer:
Although I've been really, really interested in getting this game the short ball times worry me. I don't like brutally difficult games. Are there adjustments on the game to make it less difficult?
This might not be the game for you.
On the other hand, you might discover that you love it!
Ideally you'd wait to play one yourself first before making a decision, and that's what I recommend. But if you're looking for opinions then I'd say this:
These old school solid state style games are often hard. They don't have easy ramp shots that return cleanly to the flipper, there's more random ball action, and TNA is definitely going to be fast.
But that's really the point.
If you play one of the easier solid states you'll find that you're getting bored pretty quickly. The fun is in the ball times being short and brutal more often than not, but then when you get something going, you're destroying reactors or building your multiplier or hitting the inline drops and locking balls then it's really satisfying.
You're controlling chaos for a little bit, it's the opposite of comboing ramps over and over, but it still provides that same feeling of owning the machine.
I'm much more impressed when I see someone playing a great game of Flash Gordon than I am seeing someone getting the combo multiball on Spider-Man. (Only person I've seen get combo multiball (iirc it's after 50 combos) was Jim Belsito, and it was during league play, his long ass game screwed up the whole tournament, everyone was waiting to either play Spider-Man later in their pool, or for people in his pool to be free. Belsito is a really great guy, love seeing him, glad he doesn't show up to league often. )
What I particularly love about this style of game, and the reason why I personally recommend everyone have at least one game like this in their collection, is you can have some satisfying games in a pretty short amount of time. Got an afternoon? Great, keep hitting start, it can be addictive to try and get further. Short on time? No worries, you can flip a couple good games and walk away.
And of course if you're playing with friends that goes double, the ball times are short, you're all getting a chance to participate, no standing around waiting for someone to finish yet another multiball.
Think of the era, the early 80s, and what arcade games were like then too. Same principle, damn hard, somewhat simple, but fun and addictive. The classics have endured and still get played today. Don't be scared of the brutal, embrace it.
Stream looked great, was very gratifying to see so many people in the chat appreciating the game. The more this gets played the more believers there are going to be. Great job Jack, and of course hats off to Scott and Spooky and everyone who played tonight.
Quoted from Fytr:
Not familiar with the Blackout spinner sound so I can't comment on that, but nailing a lit BK spinner is by far my favorite thing/sound in pinball!
My favorite is nailing the lit spinner on Flash Gordon, the game I'll probably give up to fit my TNA ...
Quoted from jgentry:
How many people are going to have this game setting right next to a tron? Seems like they were made to be together!!
Not sure yet where it will sit, but near Tron at the least.
Quoted from Fytr:
Blasphemy! Sell an arcade cabinet instead. Hell, sell them all if you have to.
Nah, already sold half my pins to fit my arcade cabs, that's what gets played the most. Still love pinball, but Street Fighter is the community I'm more active with these days.
Quoted from damadczar:
This is funny, b/c I did the exact opposite. Sold like 8 video games to get into pins over a year ago... the vids keep dwindling and the pins keep multiplying...
That's the common thing, I'm going against the flow here. But I don't collect classic vids, my cabs are mostly Japanese candy cabs, Astro Cities and a Neo Candy 29, and they're 'generic' in the sense that you swap games in them at will, as opposed to dedicated. I'd need a TON of space to be willing to give up room to dedicated games.
Like I said though, the fighting game community is where I'm more active these days, so having Street Fighter setups means the cabs get played, and that crowd ignore my pins.
TNA is the first new pin in a long time that I'm actually excited about!
Quoted from TheNoTrashCougar:
Sure, 10 inch sub with sub chamber box around it. Also ported out the bottom of the cabinet. Sound system is great.
If you guys aren't familiar with the work Scott has done on the sound system for this game check these old blog posts:
Tuning Your Subwoofer: http://www.scottdanesi.com/?p=757
SkeletonGame and Beyond: http://www.scottdanesi.com/?p=733
First one has technical details, second one has some good development photos of the sub chamber. There's a reason this game bumps!
Good for you rai, you're expanding the breadth of your game collection in a great way.
Play it first. I know it's a weird and wacky concept on this here Pinside website thingy, but trying a game to see if you like it before spending thousands of dollars is actually a pretty neat idea!
If you list your location people near you might even invite you over to play their's, you never know.
Quoted from 27dnast:
Just curious: is that the same advice you gave to every single Alien pre-order?
Hell yes. I don't recommend pre-ordering anything. I've consistently said that with Alien, in public and privately to people who asked. How Heighway did business or what people chose to do weren't under my control, but the pre-order model sucks ass, and Alien is not only not an exception, it's up there with the poster children.
Honestly TNA is probably one of the safer pre-order bets, not just because Spooky has proven themselves to be trustworthy and competent when it comes to delivering games, not just because it's not really even a pre-order in the sense of "hey the game is years away but give us money to develop it", but also because the simpler nature of the title lends itself more to understanding what you're getting from videos etc.
But I've played the TNA whitewood, I didn't just order it. And I'd recommend to anyone on the fence that they play first. And I say that as someone who wants this game to succeed. If I could pick between Alien and TNA selling 1000 copies I'd pick TNA, and I get paid if the former happens.
Seriously, it would be the best news in pinball to me if that happened. I hope Alien comes out properly and does well, obviously, but I'm not a blind partisan here.
Playing games before buying them isn't crazy advice that anyone should ever question, no matter how involved in the game they might be.
Quoted from jwilson:
Seems like people are dumping Expo in droves. No custom pinball booth this year, none of the people I know are going.
I'm on the dumped Expo list. First one I'll miss in 5 years but I just can't be bothered anymore. Flight, hotel, entrance fees, for what? To watch Mike scoot around yelling at people? Put on a fake nose and try and crash the Stern tour like Jack? Pass.
There won't be a new Stern there, and I've played Star Wars. No homebrew alley. No point. Skip it, go to Pinball Life party if you can instead.
If Scott wants to take TNA to shows to drum up sales there are better ones now.
You might. I find these kinds of games have high replayability, but it's also fairly limited in what you're trying to do, it's the difficulty that gives it longevity. I think it would be fine in a 3 game collection, 2 might be pushing it depending on how you like to play.
If I downsized to 3 games I'd want one with a TNA style of play.
No he's saying the rod circumference is smaller than the cap I think. Which is because it has a cap, you're not looking down at a naked cylinder, there's a top part that's larger.
We can play a 4 player game on Flash Gordon, set to 5 ball, and finish the entire game while someone else is still on ball one on Metallica. Which is of course set to 3, modern games on 5 ball is torture, it only works on older brutal titles that move fast. IMHO.
I'll see what I feel like doing with TNA, but if I decide it feels better like Flash Gordon on 5 I definitely won't apologize for it or feel embarrassed.
If you're interested in some kind of pissing contest with other people and want to say your machine is set up like theirs then cool, have at it. I couldn't care less if your game is on 3 ball and mine is on 5, it's not like I'm going to brag that I got more reactors than you or something.
Quoted from ViperNation:
Surprised that nobody liked the idea of randomly varying the strength of the slings and such in a wizard mode...
Here's why I don't like it: Randomness from software isn't interesting. Let the ball do what the ball is gonna do, that's pinball. You just play it the best you can, you use your skills the best you can, and if physics beats you, so be it. A drain because a sling randomly went off at half strength sounds incredibly lame. What's satisfying about that?
Quoted from SpookyCharlie:
I've literally turned down more than a dozen offers for extra $$$ to get "someone a game quicker". I've said no 100% of the time.
Hey now, let's not be hasty, cut me in on the action and I'll wait a little longer.
In all seriousness, I'm game #75, in the 'any day now' territory, and if my game needs to wait a little to get one on a show floor so they can sell more I'm 110% okay with it. People should chill, this isn't a hobby about getting things immediately. Let them do their work. I care more about the success of the game and company than being impatient personally.
Quoted from rai:
Going to give my initial impressions, I know some may say 'who cares?' but I have never played this pin before and like to read what other people think and so maybe some might like to hear what I think.
Actually I was pretty curious to hear what you think. You're a 'ramps' player, and this is new for you, I appreciated your thoughts.
Someone like me, who's owned a bunch of 80s Bally games, it's not new territory, and I already know I love that gameplay. So my opinion is maybe more predictable.
Quoted from TheNoTrashCougar:
I vote for send it back for a replacement. Contact Spooky about it. These are all tested during assembly and final inspection, so not sure how that got through. Whatever the issue, Spooky and team will fix it for you.
Look man, I'm getting a little sick of your cheerful and helpful customer service, this quick and friendly thing is making everyone else look bad, be a team player and start ignoring stuff, okay?
I could get the notice next week, I'm getting excited! I've been kinda purposefully not thinking about it or watching videos, easier to wait with it out of mind, but now I'm hype.
Quoted from Cheeks:
Agreed on the cab, but the shaker is VERY WELL integrated.
Hmm. It's pre-drilled if I want to add it later right? I've installed shakers before, it's easy.
If I was to decide last minute I wanted it do I have to order from Pinball Life and have it shipped to Spooky or is it just a straight factory upgrade they can add last minute and bill me for?
#75 getting ready for the truck, should ship out next week, snow allowing. Ain't no snow here, come where it's warm my lovely game!
I don't find any of the new games actually casual friendly. I think pinball people forget just how confusing these games are to people who don't play them, and often don't realize there are even rules, let alone ideas like "starting a mode".
Like Star Wars for instance, that game isn't remotely friendly to someone who doesn't play. What exactly are they supposed to figure out how to do if they don't grasp the basics already? We're talking about people who don't know you can start a 4 player game on a pin, who don't understand what "lock is lit" means. These lock in your multiplier rules are greek to them.
Quoted from Fytr:
GotG is though. Players instintively shoot at Groot, and then, well, keep shooting at Groot. That's the game!
This is something Gary Stern has always banged home, and I think he's right, give the player an obvious thing to shoot that rewards them. Keep hitting Sparky and you fry him and get mulitball, great. Most Sterns are good about this. I suspect you're taking the piss out of GotG's code, but I haven't played it. Still, for new players that's good enough.
This is something Star Wars fails on too for new players. There's no obvious gimme shot.
Quoted from FatPanda:
I would argue that some of the rules in today's games are difficult to grasp even for the seasoned players.
Agreed. Take my Metallica example above. It's fine to teach people what to bash, but trying to explain the way you lock in lights on the different lanes and ramps gives me and the person I'm explaining to a headache. Once you grasp it the whole thing isn't hard, but that initial learning curve can be tricky. Especially on a Pro without the RGB inserts.
Quoted from venom112:
Was going to buy one of these but they are now quoting new buyers a fall time frame. I think slow production is going to hurt spooky in the long run as there will be probably 4 new pins out or announced by then
So what you're saying is Spooky is being hurt because there's a long wait because so many people are ordering their games?
They're building organically at the right speed for them. If you don't want to be patient that's fine, but it's actually your problem, not Spooky's.
Quoted from PtownPin:
There is no doubt that having long lead times hurts the bottom line....
Nonsense. This isn't fantasy land where you just fulfill all orders overnight and swim in the money. How exactly does that happen? Suddenly a huge factory filled with workers and parts just appears? And if it did, then what? You have to keep pumping out product to keep that all going. That would be a disaster, not some boon to the bottom line.
I get organic growth, and thats great on their end.
Is is great on their end. It's not great for impatient people, what you're basically saying is "I don't want to wait". TNA is a great game, be nice if you could have one tomorrow. But such is life with boutique pinball, Stern ain't making anything like it.
Their big mistake IMHO is the the $1K deposit....they should make it $250 and fully refundable. I guarantee their backlog would increase, and most consumers could care less about a $250 deposit, and the long lead time....
So wait, the problem is they have a long lead time, but you want to make it longer? It sounds to me like you just don't want to pony up $1000. Which is fine, no one is making you, but you're couching all this like it's good for Spooky, when it's really about what's good for you.
Quoted from OnTheSnap:
Anyway, I’m new to the hobby, and itch to have my second pin short term.
We've all been there, we all get it. I'm not mocking anyone who's impatient, waiting sucks, but it is what it is. I have my game because I paid my $1000, and I waited.
You'll learn later that getting games fast isn't the best way to do it, that it's better to have the right ones. But you can't learn that from me typing, you gotta figure it out yourself.
I just checked my records because I was curious, with all these OMG I CAN'T WAIT posts.
I reserved my TNA spot on July 28th 2017, $1000 down.
I paid in full February 8th 2018.
So even though I got in early I waited the same 6 months people are talking about. You don't want to do it? Don't. But those of us who have the game did it, so don't look for a lot of sympathy.
Quoted from herg:
I don't believe there is a "healthy market" for them at $7k - $10k. There's likely a few impatient people who are willing to pay that. There's no way that Spooky would be selling 350+ of them in that price range.
Yup. Love my TNA, love Scott, was delighted to be able to support and get a game I love. You get into those prices and I pass, on any game from anyone.
If I made a game, and sold 400 of them, I'd be over the effing moon with that kind of success. That's amazing.
I wonder if Pinball Life will carry the speaker lights? I'd like to order the shaker at some point, be handy to get them shipped together.
Quoted from TheNoTrashCougar:
Check out this topper that goes over the topper we made at Pinball Life! Respectful nod to High Speed definitely intended.
HOT ACTION PINBALL!!!
When there's a NO RAMPS topper let me know
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