(Topic ID: 183527)

Total Nuclear Annihilation production by Spooky Pinball


By Grizlyrig

2 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 7,250 posts
  • 628 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 months ago by jaybeedee
  • Topic is favorited by 183 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“Would you buy this if Spooky Pinball built it? How much would you be willing to pay?”

  • Yes 156 votes
    14%
  • No 219 votes
    19%
  • Maybe 186 votes
    16%
  • $5500-5750 324 votes
    28%
  • $5751-6000 98 votes
    9%
  • $6001-6250 63 votes
    6%
  • $6251-6500 44 votes
    4%
  • $6501-6750 18 votes
    2%
  • $6751-7000 34 votes
    3%

(Multiple choice - 1142 votes by 940 Pinsiders)

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Topic index (key posts)

34 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20 (Show topic index)

There are 7250 posts in this topic. You are on page 6 of 145.
#251 2 years ago
Quoted from jwilson:

The cabinet isn't the expensive part of this game

Correct, the populated playfield is.. However $600 is a big chunk of final BOM cost (which seems to be the #1 thing people are complaining about).. It's not like deciding on whether or not to include a 2nd $50 ramp, or playfield pegs versus full slide rails. it's $600

Quoted from kursiv:

I will be making a single level Classic Bally style game that will have fully updated electronics

Yes, Bally "style" playfield, which it clearly is... and happens to be in a Bally Dolly Cabinet because he already had one. There's no reason it couldn't be put in a modern cabinet, but knowing how old school Scott is even if it did go into production he'd probably want to keep the same cabinet style which I respect. I was simply saying if someone were to do a "kit", Williams would probably be the most common pre-existing cabinet in someone's collection.

#252 2 years ago
Quoted from bangerjay:

I don't ever want perfectly good playfields sitting in my closet, That's why kits or modular playfields have limited potential.

That and I believe if you have a machine that is fun to play, how likely are you to 'remove it from the collection' even temporarily by swapping out the playfield? I've never had a problem with the concept, but the practicality seems compromised.

Brad

#253 2 years ago
Quoted from bangerjay:

I don't ever want perfectly good playfields sitting in my closet, That's why kits or modular playfields have limited potential.

You're blessed with a ton of space.. the kits would look more appealing to those in big cities or Europe with tiny flats for living space. Heck, it's a European company bringing the concept back. But yea, I agree, games should be played, not stored. And I'd definitely make room for a TA.

Quoted from jellikit:

That and I believe if you have a machine that is fun to play, how likely are you to 'remove it from the collection' even temporarily by swapping out the playfield? I've never had a problem with the concept, but the practicality seems compromised.

Any game, no matter how good, eventually gets boring. RFM isn't exactly a shining example of pinball design, but it was a lot better than Ep1. Still, after 6 months of RFM, a week of Ep1 was a refreshing change.

I guess the question is, is swapping kits that much easier than simply buying and selling machines to satisfy the 'new game itch'?

#254 2 years ago
Quoted from bangerjay:

I don't ever want perfectly good playfields sitting in my closet, That's why kits or modular playfields have limited potential.

Here's a thought--make swappable playfields that can easily hang on the wall as lighted decorations in the game room. No need to stuff 'em in the closet.

#255 2 years ago

I think the concept of swapping out the playfield and putting another one in on route to keep the machine earning while you shop out the other game is smart. Also, if you have the base cabs at multiple locations, an op can switch games by just transferring a playfield around rather than moving a whole game across town.

In the home environment id prefer a game that is always up and running, but thats just me

#256 2 years ago
Quoted from chadderack:

Here's a thought--make swappable playfields that can easily hang on the wall as lighted decorations in the game room. No need to stuff 'em in the closet.

Yes, I like this

Quoted from InfiniteLives:

I think the concept of swapping out the playfield and putting another one in on route to keep the machine earning while you shop out the other game is smart. In the home environment id prefer a game that is always up and running, but thats just me

Yes to this too

Cool ideas, but it's all determined by how many are willing to pay up for the desired outcome

#257 2 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

Correct, the populated playfield is.. However $600 is a big chunk of final BOM cost

Okay, for the sake of argument let's break it down to what you'd need for your kit.

You'd need the fully populated playfield. You'd need the P-ROC boards, plus the computer to drive it. You'd need the subwoofer, speakers and amps to drive them. You'd need the screen and displays. You'd need a 70/12/5V power supply.

So, what exactly would you be able to re-use from your cabinet? Nothing other than the plywood box and some screws, ultimately. And do a ton of work to make all that stuff fit in the box. I don't really see any "savings" here.

I was simply saying if someone were to do a "kit", Williams would probably be the most common pre-existing cabinet in someone's collection.

You are so completely out to lunch - who has an *empty* cabinet sitting around? Unless it's a P2K cab, everything else was single use, so you'd need to scrap some existing game.

The whole kit idea is insanity.

#258 2 years ago

Am I crazy or couldn't TA be adapted for the P3? Most of the features are in the top 3rd. You'd have to create a floating pop bumper if that doesn't exist yet for p3, and obviously it would be an adapted game, not the original design, original light show, etc, but perhaps that would be possible at a price point that people can handle if TA never makes it past a single prototype for cost reasons.

#259 2 years ago
Quoted from frolic:

Am I crazy or couldn't TA be adapted for the P3?

Not really. The pop is a big issue, but the left side targets aren't possible on P3.

You could make something similar to it, but not quite the same.

#261 2 years ago
Quoted from jwilson:

So, what exactly would you be able to re-use from your cabinet? Nothing other than the plywood box and some screws, ultimately

Umm...
side rails cost $120
lockbar mech is $80
lockbar is $60
coin door is $150
Legs are $40
leg brackets are $16
playfield glass is $20 (more if it's shipped)

It adds up quicker than you think, and every time you buy a pinball all of those things cost money (and you're rebuying that hardware).

Quoted from jwilson:

who has an *empty* cabinet sitting around?

I'm not saying an empty cabinet sitting around doing nothing, I'm saying "a" cabinet. Though for instance, I have a high speed and an earthshaker both sitting in the shop area because I've been lazy about finishing shopping the playfields.

But let's suppose every single pinball I have in my collection is cherry. I'm bored of high speed, but I don't want to sell it off because I've put so much money and time into it, plus it's nostalgia for me. I'm out of room, what to do? conversion kit. Also I'm pretty sure a populated playfield could easily fit underneath the cabinet which is currently unused space. If you have unlimited room fantastic, most of us are quickly running out of space to put another pinball.

#262 2 years ago
Quoted from jwilson:

Not really. The pop is a big issue, but the left side targets aren't possible on P3.

The left side targets are possible. The P3 has a mid-playfield module that can be swapped out. I think the major challenge would be the pop bumper. As mentioned above, it would require a floating pop-bumper but I believe there are plans to design those. I also wonder if the scoop is too low on the playfield to fit on the upper module. Anyways, a game in this style could definitely be made.

#263 2 years ago
Quoted from jwilson:

Okay, for the sake of argument let's break it down to what you'd need for your kit.
You'd need the fully populated playfield. You'd need the P-ROC boards, plus the computer to drive it. You'd need the subwoofer, speakers and amps to drive them. You'd need the screen and displays. You'd need a 70/12/5V power supply.
So, what exactly would you be able to re-use from your cabinet? Nothing other than the plywood box and some screws, ultimately. And do a ton of work to make all that stuff fit in the box. I don't really see any "savings" here.

You are so completely out to lunch - who has an *empty* cabinet sitting around? Unless it's a P2K cab, everything else was single use, so you'd need to scrap some existing game.
The whole kit idea is insanity.

Just to help out since I built a Bally cab from scratch...
You need:

Cabinet
Leg brackets
Side rails
Coindoor plus coin mechs
Coin box
Shooter assembly
Start button
Grounding braid
Legs
Leg bolts
Leg levelers
Power switch plus hardware
Cab buttons
Button switches
Button sashes
Lockdown bar
Lockdown bar receiver
Glass channels
Glass
Rear glass channel receiver
Knocker?
Tilt mech assembly
Wiring harness possibly
Screws, bolts and hardware for all
Paint
Clear coat to protect paint

I'm sure there's more, and this is only the cab, not the head

There's a lot of expense here when buying new parts.

#264 2 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

It adds up quicker than you think, and every time you buy a pinball all of those things cost money (and you're rebuying that hardware).

Your list added up to under $500...

Quoted from toyotaboy:

But let's suppose every single pinball I have in my collection is cherry. I'm bored of high speed, but I don't want to sell it off because I've put so much money and time into it, plus it's nostalgia for me. I'm out of room, what to do? conversion kit. Also I'm pretty sure a populated playfield could easily fit underneath the cabinet which is currently unused space.

Do you want to be the one to create all the documentation and bits n pieces to make a kit for *every* possible cabinet people might have? I can picture at least a half-dozen playfield support systems already... Also, methinks most people already store crap under their games, and if they don't, they're not gonna start with a big honkin' wired playfield.

#265 2 years ago

From the P3 modularity demo (https://player.vimeo.com/video/131805986)

pasted_image (resized).png

#266 2 years ago
Quoted from Chosen_S:

Just to help out since I built a Bally cab from scratch...
You need:
Cabinet
Leg brackets
Side rails
Coindoor plus coin mechs
Coin box
Shooter assembly
Start button
Grounding braid
Legs
Leg bolts
Leg levelers
Power switch plus hardware
Cab buttons
Button switches
Button sashes
Lockdown bar
Lockdown bar receiver
Glass channels
Glass
Rear glass channel receiver
Knocker?
Wiring harness possibly
Screws, bolts and hardware for all
Paint
Clear coat to protect paint
I'm sure there's more, and this is only the cab, not the head
There's a lot of expense here when buying new parts.

Don't forget shipping and wood + working skills and tools AND space to put the cabinet together right and not have it look like garbage.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

#267 2 years ago
Quoted from fastpinball:

Don't forget shipping and wood + working skills and tools AND space to put the cabinet together right and not have it look like garbage.
Aaron
FAST Pinball

Yes, or... a local cabinet maker can copy the Bally cab for under $400 in most cases, this removes the cost for TOOLS, and space and the list goes on

#268 2 years ago

You're quoting retail prices. Wholesale, in bulk, is considerably cheaper.

I'm out of room, what to do? conversion kit. Also I'm pretty sure a populated playfield could easily fit underneath the cabinet which is currently unused space.

A conversion kit where you pull every board, every wiring loom, the light board - basically everything but the cabinet? How do you deal with the various cabinet differences over the decades? These games weren't meant to be converted.

Have you ever lifted a playfield and looked underneath? There's a bunch of pokey sharp things under there and they don't sit level. What do you do with the boards and other stuff?

C'mon. Be serious.

#270 2 years ago
Quoted from jwilson:

I stand corrected!

Well, to be fair, this is a concept only, they haven't made a floating pop-bumper yet. However, they made floating slings and flippers, so it can't be much more difficult than that.

#271 2 years ago
Quoted from solarvalue:

Well, to be fair, this is a concept only, they haven't made a floating pop-bumper yet. However, they made floating slings and flippers, so it can't be much more difficult than that.

Say that again slowly... floating pop bumper, not exactly easy. A coil has to go somewhere, plus mechanics. The most complex and effective floating pop bumper I've seen is on CV, and even that has a full pop assembly... maybe they could do it with magnetics, but wow! What a magnetic field!!

#272 2 years ago
Quoted from solarvalue:

Well, to be fair, this is a concept only, they haven't made a floating pop-bumper yet. However, they made floating slings and flippers, so it can't be much more difficult than that.

Given how pops "squeeze" the ball down against the playfield to fire it, it has some different challenges then slings and flippers that have the majority of their motion parallel to the playfield. Not saying it can't be done, but certainly is a little trickier.

And while this could be a cool P3 game, it is not going to be the same game.

#273 2 years ago

A floating spinning bumper like in Orbiter might be easier to pull off than a real pop-bumper? Not sure how that makes the ball react on a flat playfield.

#274 2 years ago

How about a $500 manual. Which indicates every part neded for the machine with some parts being provided by the creator.

#275 2 years ago
Quoted from lordloss:

How about a $500 manual. Which indicates every part neded for the machine with some parts being provided by the creator.

His last name isn't Stern

#276 2 years ago
Quoted from bangerjay:

I don't ever want perfectly good playfields sitting in my closet

Mind you, last time I was at your house you had a whole pin in your closet!

A Gottlieb Going Nuts no less!!!

rd

#277 2 years ago
Quoted from Chosen_S:

His last name isn't Stern

Not with that attitude

#278 2 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

Mind you, last time I was at your house you had a whole pin in your closet!
A Gottlieb Going Nuts no less!!!
rd

I am willing to bet that wasnt the only closet that had a pin in it. If he can fit a game in there he will!

#279 2 years ago
Quoted from lordloss:

Not with that attitude

Touche' , you're hilarious

#280 2 years ago
Quoted from Nelly:

I am willing to bet that wasnt the only closet that had a pin in it. If he can fit a game in there he will!

There are often "hidden" areas in homes as well... bring out the gimp! In Jay's case that might be a Gottlieb Humpty Dumpty machine, but who knows?

Brad

#281 2 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

Mind you, last time I was at your house you had a whole pin in your closet!
A Gottlieb Going Nuts no less!!!
rd

Quoted from Nelly:

I am willing to bet that wasnt the only closet that had a pin in it. If he can fit a game in there he will!

The shame!!

#282 2 years ago
Quoted from jellikit:

There are often "hidden" areas in homes as well... bring out the gimp! In Jay's case that might be a Gottlieb Humpty Dumpty machine, but who knows?
Brad

Humpty Dumpty is for sale if you want it

#283 2 years ago

This game looks absolutely killer, but then again, I have a whole row of early 80s pins, so I like single-level games more than the average modern collector.

I understand people saying that the way this machine was built and functions, it would be nearly as expensive as other more robust layouts. The problem is most current day people won't see the value in that, justified or not. You're seeing that debate in this thread alone.

As a one-off homebrew, who cares. I spend too much on things for myself all the time. However, that wouldn't fly in any production attempt. My question is, are there compromises to the design decisions that would cut costs and make a close facsimile of the game experience be production viable at a price point people would be more open to?

Things like having an LCD and alpha-numeric displays is cool for the retro vibe, but totally unnecessary. The lightshow is awesome without a doubt, but that seems to be a place where a ton of the budget is going. Could that be accomplished more economically somehow without totally losing the spirit of what's been done? I just wonder if some less impactful aspects could be costed out to make the game as a whole available.

#284 2 years ago
Quoted from Cheeks:

My question is, are there compromises to the design decisions that would cut costs and make a close facsimile of the game experience be production viable at a price point people would be more open to?

Things like having an LCD and alpha-numeric displays is cool for the retro vibe, but totally unnecessary. The lightshow is awesome without a doubt, but that seems to be a place where a ton of the budget is going. Could that be accomplished more economically somehow without totally losing the spirit of what's been done? I just wonder if some less impactful aspects could be costed out to make the game as a whole available.

Gary Stern?

#285 2 years ago

The LCD screen could be taken out. Keep it as classic as possible, but the lighting & sound is the real draw.

#286 2 years ago
Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

The LCD screen could be taken out. Keep it as classic as possible, but the lighting & sound is the real draw.

No way... the LCD is amazeballs

Sooo much hard work has gone into the animations/vids and it's incorporation into the game, the LCD will help drive the desire ability of this title... classic Bally and stern has been done, time to kick the crap out of woah nelly; no offense

#287 2 years ago
Quoted from HoakyPoaky:

The LCD screen could be taken out. Keep it as classic as possible, but the lighting & sound is the real draw.

Segment displays cost more than the LCD screens available now.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

1 week later
#289 2 years ago

It's a sign

10
#291 2 years ago

Ya it's a sign...that I gotta save up some money!
-Mike

#292 2 years ago
Quoted from Grizlyrig:

Ya it's a sign...that I gotta save up some money!
-Mike

Yep me too .

#293 2 years ago

And me.

#294 2 years ago

Going PinHeck would be a significant shift in cost of production!

Aaron
FAST Pinball

#295 2 years ago
Quoted from fastpinball:

Going PinHeck would be a significant shift in cost of production!
Aaron
FAST Pinball

Doesn't necessarily mean that the Pinheck board has to be used

I'm in, still want to see the art

#296 2 years ago
Quoted from Chosen_S:

Doesn't necessarily mean that the Pinheck board has to be used
I'm in, still want to see the art

Of course it doesn't.

You would have to factor in the cost of reprogramming for the pinheck, as well as any other hardware / software needed to accomplish what Scott does in TA that the PinHeck doesn't support.

Make it happen and bring it to the NW Pinball Show!

Aaron
FAST Pinball

30
#297 2 years ago

MGC 2017 best in show , best new game of the year catagory.

20170409_102221 (resized).jpg

#298 2 years ago

Spooky/Scott please bring the game to SFGE.

I'd love to play this game!

#299 2 years ago
Quoted from trilogybeer:

MGC 2017 best in show , best new game of the year catagory.

Scott deserves it. Fun, rocking, and crazy addictive game.

#300 2 years ago
Quoted from trilogybeer:

MGC 2017 best in show , best new game of the year catagory.

Impressive with no art yet. Can't wait to play this game.

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