Correct, the populated playfield is.. However $600 is a big chunk of final BOM cost (which seems to be the #1 thing people are complaining about).. It's not like deciding on whether or not to include a 2nd $50 ramp, or playfield pegs versus full slide rails. it's $600

Yes, Bally "style" playfield, which it clearly is... and happens to be in a Bally Dolly Cabinet because he already had one. There's no reason it couldn't be put in a modern cabinet, but knowing how old school Scott is even if it did go into production he'd probably want to keep the same cabinet style which I respect. I was simply saying if someone were to do a "kit", Williams would probably be the most common pre-existing cabinet in someone's collection.

That and I believe if you have a machine that is fun to play, how likely are you to 'remove it from the collection' even temporarily by swapping out the playfield? I've never had a problem with the concept, but the practicality seems compromised.

Brad

You're blessed with a ton of space.. the kits would look more appealing to those in big cities or Europe with tiny flats for living space. Heck, it's a European company bringing the concept back. But yea, I agree, games should be played, not stored. And I'd definitely make room for a TA.

Any game, no matter how good, eventually gets boring. RFM isn't exactly a shining example of pinball design, but it was a lot better than Ep1. Still, after 6 months of RFM, a week of Ep1 was a refreshing change.

I guess the question is, is swapping kits that much easier than simply buying and selling machines to satisfy the 'new game itch'?

Here's a thought--make swappable playfields that can easily hang on the wall as lighted decorations in the game room. No need to stuff 'em in the closet.

I think the concept of swapping out the playfield and putting another one in on route to keep the machine earning while you shop out the other game is smart. Also, if you have the base cabs at multiple locations, an op can switch games by just transferring a playfield around rather than moving a whole game across town.

In the home environment id prefer a game that is always up and running, but thats just me

Yes, I like this

Yes to this too

Cool ideas, but it's all determined by how many are willing to pay up for the desired outcome

Okay, for the sake of argument let's break it down to what you'd need for your kit.

You'd need the fully populated playfield. You'd need the P-ROC boards, plus the computer to drive it. You'd need the subwoofer, speakers and amps to drive them. You'd need the screen and displays. You'd need a 70/12/5V power supply.

So, what exactly would you be able to re-use from your cabinet? Nothing other than the plywood box and some screws, ultimately. And do a ton of work to make all that stuff fit in the box. I don't really see any "savings" here.

I was simply saying if someone were to do a "kit", Williams would probably be the most common pre-existing cabinet in someone's collection.

You are so completely out to lunch - who has an *empty* cabinet sitting around? Unless it's a P2K cab, everything else was single use, so you'd need to scrap some existing game.

The whole kit idea is insanity.

Am I crazy or couldn't TA be adapted for the P3? Most of the features are in the top 3rd. You'd have to create a floating pop bumper if that doesn't exist yet for p3, and obviously it would be an adapted game, not the original design, original light show, etc, but perhaps that would be possible at a price point that people can handle if TA never makes it past a single prototype for cost reasons.

Not really. The pop is a big issue, but the left side targets aren't possible on P3.

You could make something similar to it, but not quite the same.

Ugh, my first dupe!

TA RULES

Umm...
side rails cost $120
lockbar mech is $80
lockbar is $60
coin door is $150
Legs are $40
leg brackets are $16
playfield glass is $20 (more if it's shipped)

It adds up quicker than you think, and every time you buy a pinball all of those things cost money (and you're rebuying that hardware).

I'm not saying an empty cabinet sitting around doing nothing, I'm saying "a" cabinet. Though for instance, I have a high speed and an earthshaker both sitting in the shop area because I've been lazy about finishing shopping the playfields.

But let's suppose every single pinball I have in my collection is cherry. I'm bored of high speed, but I don't want to sell it off because I've put so much money and time into it, plus it's nostalgia for me. I'm out of room, what to do? conversion kit. Also I'm pretty sure a populated playfield could easily fit underneath the cabinet which is currently unused space. If you have unlimited room fantastic, most of us are quickly running out of space to put another pinball.

The left side targets are possible. The P3 has a mid-playfield module that can be swapped out. I think the major challenge would be the pop bumper. As mentioned above, it would require a floating pop-bumper but I believe there are plans to design those. I also wonder if the scoop is too low on the playfield to fit on the upper module. Anyways, a game in this style could definitely be made.

Just to help out since I built a Bally cab from scratch...
You need:

Cabinet
Leg brackets
Side rails
Coindoor plus coin mechs
Coin box
Shooter assembly
Start button
Grounding braid
Legs
Leg bolts
Leg levelers
Power switch plus hardware
Cab buttons
Button switches
Button sashes
Lockdown bar
Lockdown bar receiver
Glass channels
Glass
Rear glass channel receiver
Knocker?
Tilt mech assembly
Wiring harness possibly
Screws, bolts and hardware for all
Paint
Clear coat to protect paint

I'm sure there's more, and this is only the cab, not the head

There's a lot of expense here when buying new parts.

Your list added up to under $500...

Do you want to be the one to create all the documentation and bits n pieces to make a kit for *every* possible cabinet people might have? I can picture at least a half-dozen playfield support systems already... Also, methinks most people already store crap under their games, and if they don't, they're not gonna start with a big honkin' wired playfield.

From the P3 modularity demo (https://player.vimeo.com/video/131805986)

pasted_image (resized).png

Don't forget shipping and wood + working skills and tools AND space to put the cabinet together right and not have it look like garbage.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

Yes, or... a local cabinet maker can copy the Bally cab for under $400 in most cases, this removes the cost for TOOLS, and space and the list goes on

You're quoting retail prices. Wholesale, in bulk, is considerably cheaper.

I'm out of room, what to do? conversion kit. Also I'm pretty sure a populated playfield could easily fit underneath the cabinet which is currently unused space.

A conversion kit where you pull every board, every wiring loom, the light board - basically everything but the cabinet? How do you deal with the various cabinet differences over the decades? These games weren't meant to be converted.

Have you ever lifted a playfield and looked underneath? There's a bunch of pokey sharp things under there and they don't sit level. What do you do with the boards and other stuff?

C'mon. Be serious.

I stand corrected!

Well, to be fair, this is a concept only, they haven't made a floating pop-bumper yet. However, they made floating slings and flippers, so it can't be much more difficult than that.

Say that again slowly... floating pop bumper, not exactly easy. A coil has to go somewhere, plus mechanics. The most complex and effective floating pop bumper I've seen is on CV, and even that has a full pop assembly... maybe they could do it with magnetics, but wow! What a magnetic field!!

Given how pops "squeeze" the ball down against the playfield to fire it, it has some different challenges then slings and flippers that have the majority of their motion parallel to the playfield. Not saying it can't be done, but certainly is a little trickier.

And while this could be a cool P3 game, it is not going to be the same game.

A floating spinning bumper like in Orbiter might be easier to pull off than a real pop-bumper? Not sure how that makes the ball react on a flat playfield.

How about a $500 manual. Which indicates every part neded for the machine with some parts being provided by the creator.

His last name isn't Stern

Mind you, last time I was at your house you had a whole pin in your closet!

A Gottlieb Going Nuts no less!!!

rd

Not with that attitude

I am willing to bet that wasnt the only closet that had a pin in it. If he can fit a game in there he will!

Touche' , you're hilarious

There are often "hidden" areas in homes as well... bring out the gimp! In Jay's case that might be a Gottlieb Humpty Dumpty machine, but who knows?

Brad

The shame!!

Humpty Dumpty is for sale if you want it

This game looks absolutely killer, but then again, I have a whole row of early 80s pins, so I like single-level games more than the average modern collector.

I understand people saying that the way this machine was built and functions, it would be nearly as expensive as other more robust layouts. The problem is most current day people won't see the value in that, justified or not. You're seeing that debate in this thread alone.

As a one-off homebrew, who cares. I spend too much on things for myself all the time. However, that wouldn't fly in any production attempt. My question is, are there compromises to the design decisions that would cut costs and make a close facsimile of the game experience be production viable at a price point people would be more open to?

Things like having an LCD and alpha-numeric displays is cool for the retro vibe, but totally unnecessary. The lightshow is awesome without a doubt, but that seems to be a place where a ton of the budget is going. Could that be accomplished more economically somehow without totally losing the spirit of what's been done? I just wonder if some less impactful aspects could be costed out to make the game as a whole available.

Gary Stern?

The LCD screen could be taken out. Keep it as classic as possible, but the lighting & sound is the real draw.

No way... the LCD is amazeballs

Sooo much hard work has gone into the animations/vids and it's incorporation into the game, the LCD will help drive the desire ability of this title... classic Bally and stern has been done, time to kick the crap out of woah nelly; no offense

Segment displays cost more than the LCD screens available now.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

Spooky playing games with us on FB...?

https://www.facebook.com/SpookyPinball/posts/1393890647338825:0

It's a sign

Of the apocalypse.

Yep me too .

And me.

Going PinHeck would be a significant shift in cost of production!

Aaron
FAST Pinball

Doesn't necessarily mean that the Pinheck board has to be used

I'm in, still want to see the art

Of course it doesn't.

You would have to factor in the cost of reprogramming for the pinheck, as well as any other hardware / software needed to accomplish what Scott does in TA that the PinHeck doesn't support.

Make it happen and bring it to the NW Pinball Show!

Aaron
FAST Pinball

MGC 2017 best in show , best new game of the year catagory.

20170409_102221 (resized).jpg

Spooky/Scott please bring the game to SFGE.

I'd love to play this game!

Scott deserves it. Fun, rocking, and crazy addictive game.

Impressive with no art yet. Can't wait to play this game.