Propaghandi ftw

essential album in my jukebox

also, i need to sell a bunch of stuff so i can get some TnA

Soooo....
10 years for game development (edit: my apologies, looks like a solid 2 years, but with a few more years for r&d working on other projects)
4 months for art Development
I don't think it's ironic, I think we are shelling out 6k for something we want to support and want to look just as brilliant as it plays (wheather the game is turned on or off)
If the game is off (or on), and it looks underwhelming; why would any of us passionate about shelling out that kind of money not complain properly to help possibly direct something for the game to be the best it can be.
benheck you can't argue with this logic, please help the game be all it can be.
I know spooky and Scott are working hard, but come on , stern is screwing up games with using photoshop improperly, please don't allow the tna project (or any other spooky project for that matter) follow suit. We love this hobby just as much as you guys or we wouldn't say anything, we support you.

Added over 7 years ago: Ben, I'm sorry I called you out, please discard

We're long over that. That's only one "people" that really insisted and he has thankfully left the thread.

I just suggested to replace one existing grapic (the logo) with a pic of the character.
That's quite some nuances off to where's waldo.

And again: I'll buy it the way it is (allready called my distributor to somehow get me that machine here) but I'd prefer it with the character in the flipper area.

Edited my post, my apologies

What logic? The game doesn't look exactly how you want it to, so they should change it to make you happy?

I don't mean to be rude to you, but you're couching your own personal tastes as somehow logic that can't be dismissed, and that's just silly.

It's not changing. Nothing anyone says in this thread is going to make Scott change his vision. If you don't want to buy it then cool. But there's nothing wrong with the art.

Did Ben just let slip the theme for his newest pin design?

Aaron
FAST Pinball

...well, if one wanted to be a real badass they could buy the game and then sand the pf down and paint it white.

...I think I'll enjoy the art that it comes with myself.

That song makes me weepy

yisus! quite emotional the replies when the art is questioned...

I know it may not change from what it is now, benheck Aurich I sounded like a jerk, I'm sorry. I think the art on the pf could be better, it's just my opinion, my thought was that maybe the pinsiders who plan to purchase could have their opinions weighed in and minor changes would be at least considered. I have not actually said what I think should be changed, I think others have exercised that in their own detail.

You have a unique opportunity with this game . In your first post most of the artwork you said you had issues with ( the areas circled in blue and green ) is on the plastics . You could make an alternate plastic set for this game . You could even try to sell your alternate plastic set to others . The area you circled in red is where the pricing guide would be be placed . The image with pyramid would just be a printed card and either replaced with pricing info if on route or anything else the home user would want . The center of the playfield ( between the flippers) would be the only challenge for you . You could make a decal that would be placed there , others have done this for other games they wanted to change the original artwork up a bit . Honestly this is a perfect opportunity for you to tweek the artwork more to your liking , maybe make a bit of money selling the alternate artwork package for this game .

trilogybeer I like the way you think

Where Scott's vision may not change I'm fairly confident that Scott and Spooky are listening to suggestions from the community. There is no harm in listening to feedback that is offered politely, sincerely, and with good intentions.

I believe I did see an interview recently where Scott did say he liked constructive feedback. I understand its his vision and I can completely respect that. At the same time, the capitalist in me says "listen to your customers." There is no doubt that pinball people love detailed hand drawn art. I'm guessing that Spooky and Scott are hoping to make some money from this venture so it would be in their best interest to at least weigh the feedback.

Personally, I love the art package. This is not the game I was looking to buy this year. It looks so damn enticing that it does have me really looking hard at TNA instead of DI or Houdini. I do wish there was a little more tie into the backglass even if it just had the cool 80s heroine on the playfield. Hopefully that is constructive!

...and great job!

I'm excited about this game and think it is amazingly honest in its presentation. It's throwback feel with a lot of contemporary and modern ideas about pinball. Its stands out. Its not a Stern, its not a JJ, its its own animal and revels in it. Every video of that light show and the action suggests that anything more visually would be a distraction to the massive effort put into designing an immersive fast pinball experience.

I like that the backglass sets up the 'story line' as much as it needs and not a bit more, and the playfield seems to focus the attention without unnecessary flourish or distraction. Its about an industrial catastrophe set in the future of the 80's. How the'F could it look any different?!!! Grey with neon and thrumming everything (lines, lights, music, and play).

Its more cohesive and thought out than I would have hoped. Kudos.

Suggest away!

But don't tell people they have to listen to you, know what I mean? Scott didn't ask for suggestions, he's not in here discussing things or asking for feedback. You're offering unsolicited advice, he's already shown the complete game.

He wants to change something, that's great for him. But he's under no obligation to even listen to your idea that you wrote on the internet.

When a gameplay video comes out showing the lighting with the art people will have a better sense for what you're talking about here if they're not seeing it yet. Doesn't mean there weren't other options, but this approach is deliberate and will look amazing lit up. In my opinion of course! But I've played the game with early lighting code, and it was already great.

I'm not really sure that you are understanding what I'm saying here, Aurich. I'm not offering advice (unsolicited or otherwise), making suggestions, or asking Scott to change anything about his game. What I am saying is that it's nice to know that there is "listening" going on regarding TNA. I understand that "listening" doesn't equate to "changes" but I don't think it's fair to tell everyone that "nothing is changing" either as nobody can know for certain.

If nothing gets changed...so what? But if an idea that's shared here clicks with Scott and Spooky that tweaks the game to be better then that's cool too. Just because we've seen a production game doesn't mean that something can't be altered/updated in a future run of this game.

Again, I'm not suggesting changes to the game. I've been fortunate to have played it multiple times (from whitewood to full artwork). I've seen the amount of effort involved in the artwork and revisions. I've seen the amount of labor intensive hours that have gone into making another production TNA. To sum it up, it's been super impressive to say the least.

I just don't think it's fair to suggest that the community not waste their time making suggestions because they will be ignored and what's done is done. In all fairness I'm not sure that's what you are saying but that's kind of how I read it. If I'm off-base I totally apologize as the last thing I want to do is put words in your mouth.

Although everyone is allowed their own opinion. That's also does not entitle you creative input in others opinion. I feel people need to back off as a society and allow a finish product to be delivered and stop with the "what if" bs. I see it every day on FB "fans ar angry about marvel move because...." Based on a trailer or a movie isn't out yet. Stop it sit back and enjoy the break from reality. Enjoy someone's vision and the work put into it. Pre release opinions ruined one of my favorite franchises in film.
Scott stated in spooky podcast the color and art choice for the plastics were deliberate. To make use of the RGB GI. To allow the largest effect and no change of the colors. If he blindly took the opinions to put colorful art there. We would loose the full effect of the led's. So good job to scott for sticking to his vision and giving us the game he wants to.

Hope some can find a way to get it to the white rose game show . I really want to try this out.

To help sell as many games as possible? Are you serious?!?

I happen to agree with the people that don't care for the 3rd instance of the logo between the flippers, and would prefer something that tied in the backglass scene more. But is there seriously even one person that wants to buy this game, but won't because that logo is there? It won't deter me for a single second. If that logo space is the cause for anyone not buying the game, then frankly they're pretty dense, and it's definitely their loss.

I don't understand why there is a double standard here, why do we need a spokesman for Scott, was there a spokesperson in the SW thread or GB thread? No offense but I don't care whose vision it is. If you're going to sell your wares in the open market then you should be ready for some dissenting comments. I mean is this game going to be for sale publicly or not? or is this game going to be sold to 50 close friends and family members only?

This game looks amazing, I think this thread just goes to show that people find something to argue about in pinball no matter what. It's not even a matter of arguing about the art now, it's arguing about the right to argue. Hilarious

Spooky and Scott could always print alternate playfield art packages and sell them as "Mods". Would be a nice cheap way for them to bring in extra cash. Appease a wider audience of buyers. Easy to ship (empty playfields).

Would sell more games, and if people wanted to do a playfield swap due to art package, they could.

Hell, i'm working on doing it for both TF and AC/DC. I wish Stern had an alternate art package for both of those games.

Gen 1 version of TF i'd buy in a second
AC/DC with hand drawn devil girl/cartoon art as used in their concerts

that would be sweet and save me a ton of time trying to do it on my own.

You read it right, and it's about about being fair or not, it's just a fact. The game is done, the art is done, Scott isn't soliciting suggestions. It is what it is. If you come to terms with that you'll be happier, IMHO.

You know why I feel strongly about this stuff? Because I know exactly what it's like to present a playfield to Pinside, and what it feels like to read all the comments. And when people are shitty it feels awful.

Alien's playfield was full of compromises, the license really tied my hands. I agreed with a lot of the criticism myself, couldn't even defend it because I was basically gagged, and yet still people made it really personal.

I'm not a forum cop, this isn't about double standards, whatever that even means. I'm attempting to ask for a little empathy for the people who've worked hard, who are members of our community, who are doing their best and IMHO deserve at least a little bit of respect.

Just because you can say something doesn't mean you should. Stop for 10 seconds, think about how it might make the people involved feel, and then post it if you still feel it's right. That's all.

That's a good way to say it too.

Have opinions! Share them! Whatever, do you. I'd personally plead again to be nice about it, because we're a community and this is one of our own and it would be a shame if we couldn't at least respect each other enough to do that.

But if you don't want a logo between the flippers whatever, say so, that's fine.

I'm just saying that there's a difference between "I like, I don't like" and "Scott/Spooky should". Don't plead with Ben to lobby to change things. Don't present your opinion as fact.

Accept that this is the vision, in this case there was blessedly no license to have to work around, and what's presented is what was wanted.

I'm done having this argument, either you get it or you don't. But people here can be really shitty, it doesn't make anyone on the other side of it feel good, and I think it's worth stopping to try and have a little empathy and consider what kind of a forum you want this to be.

You keep quoting me here and then lecturing me as if I said something negative or demeaning about the artwork, game, etc. I've only expressed positive feelings towards the game, it's artwork, etc. I also agree with you when I say that if you offer an opinion...be nice about it. I'm not defending those that used poor taste in expressing their thoughts. Why you keep quoting me and then offering me a life lesson on how to share my thoughts is beyond me at this point? I will disagree with you that opinions here are falling on deaf ears. I'm not saying that a playfield is going to be changed (nor am I asking it to be) but I wouldn't be surprised to see something come out of reasonable ideas.

I'm sorry that you've had personal experiences on Pinside that have made you upset but I'm not sure that entitles you to speak on everyone's behalf. I bet you are a great guy and from many of your posts all over Pinside I can see that you are passionate about what you do but this thread isn't about you. It's not about me either. It's about a pinball machine that many are excited about. To say that nobody should share an idea for the game because what's done is done and your wasting you're time seems like a disservice and a reaction because of your past experiences. This is a "discussion forum" and it's fun to hear what others think.

I'll stop with my ranting at this point so that I don't get off topic. If you think you'd like to discuss this further please consider taking it to PM. All that being said, Aurich...I can appreciate what you are saying and where you are coming from and I'm happy that you are able to express those opinions here.

I like it, I couldn't do better, I would have bought the white wood after playing it, art is icing, I am buying it.

I would add tasteful mods that match the theme after the fact.

I'm talking in general, sorry if it felt directed at you, it wasn't.

Yeah I don't know what is more irritating... the occasional jackhole comment or the condescending finger pointing from internet brownshirts determined to dictate exactly HOW someone should properly express their opinion.

Maybe the guy is actually a jerk in real life so that's how he's gonna post? So what?... that's what a public forum is about.
I agree some decorum is always desirable but these lectures on "how to properly post your opinion" are tiresome. IMHO

I'm sure I've been guilty of this kind of finger pointing in the past myself.

Buy it if you like it. If the art is that bothersome then pass on it.

Anyone interested in helping me crowd fund this lol?

Maybe the guys calling people jerks are also jerks, who can say

Original ideas are never by committee, you go Scott

How many TNA do you think will be sold in the next 3 years? I was asked recently, and I really wasn't sure. Most say it's amazing, but I really don't know how that will turn into sales. Will they sell 50 or 500?

In my opinion Paragon has the best complete art package on any pinball machine ever . I will be selling a nice Paragon to fund the purchase on a Total Nuclear Annihilation.

But wasn't that how camels were invented?

I think TNA will sell at least several hundred to start. Once it shows up in homes, more people will start to see what all the fuss is about and I think even more sales will come in.

Ha. I see what you did there.
But I think SST has a complete art package too. Including a guy with legs recently removed between the flippers. Whitch I am selling to fund TNA.

Wait, is that like 3 lefts make a right?

Nooooooooooo!

Sorry about the confusion I was not trying to say total nuclear annihilation was not a complete art package ( in fact I like the art and am excited about it .)what I was trying to say is that paragon has the best total art package . As far as major features go, in my opininion ,paragon has the best cabinet art ever put on a pinball machine , and the best backgass . The playfield is very good ( but I think the best playfield art belongs to Centaur ) but as a whole paragon wins over all with the strength of all it's aspects. But anyways what I am trying to point out is that the game that I believe has the best artwork ever will be sold from my collection to fund the purchase ( and make room ) for a Total Nuclear Annihilaion .

Upon reading again , I think you totally got what I was trying to say , I need to sell great games to make room for a better game Total Nuclear Annihilation.

Well, so far the few dissenting opinions are quickly being 'corrected' by those who purport to know otherwise. returning to post number ONE and topic of this thread - its a poll as to whether, as a pinside member, you would buy this machine or not. the current yes/no/maybe count shows.
.... yes[120]
.... no[161]
.... maybe[155]
apparently there are 160+ people who found some aspect of the game they didn't like who might offer 'constructive criticism'. there should be far more posts with a contrary position than currently exist. the ratio [+/-] is way out of whack. further, the number of positive posts that lack substance is overwhelming.

i have but a handful of posts so far in this thread (some with negative implications) but nothing unharmonious. in my last post i was trying to get discussion started on people's feelings/observations regarding specifically the playfield and its features, playability, game rules/objectives, and whether they complimented each other. i already have my own ideas and conclusions. i am interested in what other people see and how they feel. in that post i closed with what was intended to be a rhetorical question "do people know why the game plays so fast?" and a photo that i would have hoped might elicit something constructive. responses from whysnot and lpeters82 were a nice start. got a rehash of the gameplay rules, when i was really looking for what people actually thought of them and how the playfield works when it comes to attaining them. got the expected response from Aurich. And one from jwilson wondering why i haven't responded to people who are 'correcting' me with flaws in their logic.

i guess ill have to 'carry the torch' more in upcoming posts.

i would hope all the staunch supporters in this thread are still on board. the numbers beyond this circle, well? i'm still sticking with my first post in this thread from two months ago. It was in response to the OP who, at the time, was trumpeting that Spooky better have 500 games ready. i felt his figure was 'rather optimistic', made ZERO derogatory comments about the game, but instead cited market price and competition as a couple factors that might hurt sales.

Aurich still didn't like that.
[how tactful does one need to be?]

i freely admit i was off on the MSRP by 1,000. But i'm not wavering in my belief that at above 5K [especially 6k] sales will be compromised simply by price. compelling NIB competition at this time is not going to help either.

Thanks doctor science. That some incredible numeristical expertesion! Your point is made. Maybe one day you'll see it too!

I'm hoping the mods take notice soon. This should be about the game, not about with whom and why you disagree. Send a letter to Charlie tell him how you feel and be done with it. Suggestion though, maybe a little less ragesplainy than what you've poured out here.

Thanks for the advice.

opinion stated as fact; with a personal guarantee, no less
nothing like practicing what you preach.

also two excellent examples of cheerleading with no substance.

then a month later in response to someone who felt [with rationale] that sales would be less than 500 units...

nothing to talk about? but, but, but, just a month earlier it was OK for you say sales were going to go crazy and quadruple. [and please don't reply with 'yeah they went from 5 to 20, told you so, quadrupled']

thanks to the tone of that reply , i'm looking forward to it. hope no one's feelings get hurt. you can take the blame. haven't played the game. guess i missed it when it was in Cali. seriously, i expect people will find my analysis [while lengthy] to be fair and thought provoking, with both positives and negatives.

atleast get my name right if you want to actually have a discussion... shit like that makes your trolling obvious. You really need to work on your troll game.

It TOTALLY SHOULD have a pic instead of the logo between the flippers!!!

And this was never meant as a FACT (how is "should have" a fact?) more a suggestion.

Thats first because I like it more but second because of a number of reasons that were stated multiple times.

And we allready got our answer why it looks the way it looks. That's ok for me so why you're still flaming each other?
Discussion is closed. (Of course I still have hope that Scott gets to like the idea of the character between the flippers. )

Why don't you guys just go to the comic book store and grab some stickers?

Regarding the question of how many TNA will sell?

Pinside has 40K members not sure how many active but must be a smaller number. I believe for a boutique pin like this Pinside is a major market, likely most Predator, AMH, and RZ were sold to Pinsiders.

I was looking at the wish list number and there are only 40 for TNA.

Maybe that's because the game is not near production and the game was just added to the database a few days ago. So if you plan on getting one might add to your wish list now this will give me an indication of how many people want one but have not thought of putting it in their collection wish list. So for example if next week there is 50 that tells me some your if next week there is 150 on wish list.