(Topic ID: 183527)

Total Nuclear Annihilation production by Spooky Pinball


By Grizlyrig

2 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 7,250 posts
  • 628 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 85 days ago by jaybeedee
  • Topic is favorited by 183 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“Would you buy this if Spooky Pinball built it? How much would you be willing to pay?”

  • Yes 156 votes
    14%
  • No 219 votes
    19%
  • Maybe 186 votes
    16%
  • $5500-5750 324 votes
    28%
  • $5751-6000 98 votes
    9%
  • $6001-6250 63 votes
    6%
  • $6251-6500 44 votes
    4%
  • $6501-6750 18 votes
    2%
  • $6751-7000 34 votes
    3%

(Multiple choice - 1142 votes by 940 Pinsiders)

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Topic index (key posts)

34 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20 (Show topic index)

There are 7250 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 145.
#101 2 years ago

16 mechs?
15 under pf boards?
too many RGB lights to count!

I cna get to 5k in BOM without even trying...

#102 2 years ago

With alien for 7k, i dont see how this compares. Thats all. Id much rather throw my money at Heighway for that price. Nothing against him or his game, it looks fun. Just not $7,000 fun.

#103 2 years ago
Quoted from fastpinball:

Frameworks like the Mission Pinball Framework have tools for making LCD displays look nice pretty quickly, but any rich content creation takes time for sure.

Scott used SkeletonGame/pyprocgame and I don't think he has spent a ton of time on display stuff, pretty sure he spent significantly more on the amazing light shows in this game (which the player sees a lot more of than the display). As I said earlier, he had not planned to do much with the display, but I think he found it so easy to get stuff going on there with Skeleton Game that he changed his mind. He did invest very heavily in RGB for both inserts and GI and he really put that investment to excellent use. That is also one of the things that drives the cost of this game up. There are well over 100 Direct wired RGB LEDs in the game. I don't think any other game comes close to that.

-1
#104 2 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

5k is NEVER going to happen.

it could. It doesn't cost as much as you think to make a pinball machine. Wasn't that long ago you could buy NIB for $3400. So you know the production costs are wayyyyyy cheaper.

#105 2 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

it could. It doesn't cost as much as you think to make a pinball machine. Wasn't that long ago you could buy NIB for $3400. So you know the production costs are wayyyyyy cheaper.

For stern. With everything in mass quantity.

-1
#106 2 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

it could. It doesn't cost as much as you think to make a pinball machine. Wasn't that long ago you could buy NIB for $3400. So you know the production costs are wayyyyyy cheaper.

shshhhhhh, you can't question his expertise in pinball manufacturing. He knows what he's talking about since he got Wooly into production. Wait..

#107 2 years ago

Game looks awesome -- really love the design, sounds and lighting are amazing. Understandable that it would be expensive to make.. but also that it just seems like it should be a 4.5 to 5.5k machine from buyers perspective.. the rules are cool but seems like there's one main objective that gets repeated 7 or 8 times if you are trying to beat it?

13
#108 2 years ago
Quoted from Mbecker:

it just seems like it should be a 4.5 to 5.5k machine from buyers perspective.

Because it doesn't have a ramp? So if he put a $50 plastic ramp on it, it'd be worth $1,000 more?

Did you see the photo of the underside of this thing? That's Hobbit levels of wiring and materials.

3x single "smart" drops (2x coils per drop)
5x sling coils
2x scoops
2x controlled gates
1x pop bumper
1x spinner
1x auto launcher
3x flippers

That's just mechanical devices - never mind the 100+ RGB lamps. Stern couldn't even get 10 RGB lamps into their $15,000 game, but somehow because this game is missing a ramp, it's not worth $7K?

Just watch the streams on this game and you'll see why it's worth every penny. Not every game needs to have 32 stackable modes to be fun, sometimes it just needs to beat you over and over to keep you coming back. Every single person on that stream kept coming back for more.

there's one main objective that gets repeated 7 or 8 times if you are trying to beat it?

There's a bunch of different strategies involved that is more like classic pinball than the somewhat tired story progression of most modern games. Keep in mind that there are nine reactors to destroy and I'm pretty sure I've never seen anyone get past three, so this game is HARD and needs REAL SKILL to master because it doesn't just feed you the ball all nice and easy from a looped ramp, left and right over and over.

You have to nudge, and soft plunge, and be fast on the lane change to stack the ball saves. It doesn't just hand out bullshit jackpots like candy, you have to work for that jackpot shot to the upper scoop. This is a player's game.

#109 2 years ago
Quoted from lordloss:

shshhhhhh, you can't question his expertise in pinball manufacturing. He knows what he's talking about since he got Wooly into production. Wait..

Good thing you don't need to rely on whysnow's expertise in this field .

#110 2 years ago
Quoted from pinballlife:

Scott, please post a good picture of the under playfield. People need to get some perspective of exactly what is going on here.
This WOULD NOT be a cheap machine to manufacture.
In the long haul, fun factor is what rules the day, not toys and ramps. BTW, TA has pulled off a couple of neat little hat tricks; a toy created out of commonly used parts (the inline drops used as a ball locking mech) and an upper playfield that doesn't require you to actually grunt your way up there - i.e., it doesn't really exist while completely feeling like it is does.

Here is a post from someone who recetly manufactured a pinball machine in small numbers .

#111 2 years ago

Hadn't seen this until now but I would buy just for the audio I LOVE the games sounds and music

#112 2 years ago
Quoted from trilogybeer:

Good thing you don't need to rely on whysnow's expertise in this field .

dude has an obsession with me and WOOLY. Best off to not feed his trolling.
He has zero clue about anything. I am pretty sure nobody can build this and sell it for under 5k, but if they can, then count me in for 2 of them!

IF this were to ever happen I predict 7k price tag at best!

#113 2 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

dude has an obsession with me and WOOLY. Best off to not feed his trolling.
He has zero clue about anything. I am pretty sure nobody can build this and sell it for under 5k, but if they can, then count me in for 2 of them!
IF this were to ever happen I predict 7k price tag at best!

Reactors run about $1K each.
It has 9 of them!
Just saying.

#114 2 years ago

The cost in RGB lights isn't the hardware, it's the wiring and time spent coding for them. Let's please not make it seem like 1.50 versus 1.00 is a HUGE DEAL even when there's a hundred of them. I think we'd all be happy to foot the 50 bucks a game if it was simply a hit on the cost of those versus regular single-color LEDs.

#115 2 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

The cost in RGB lights isn't the hardware, it's the wiring and time spent coding for them. Let's please not make it seem like 1.50 versus 1.00 is a HUGE DEAL even when there's a hundred of them. I think we'd all be happy to foot the 50 bucks a game if it was simply a hit on the cost of those versus regular single-color LEDs.

They're all direct controlled with PD-LED boards from Multimorphic, not some inferior serial chain garbage. So yeah, there's cost in hardware.

#116 2 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

The cost in RGB lights isn't the hardware, it's the wiring and time spent coding for them.

One PD-LED is $90. TA has five.

PD-LED

Each RGB LED is about 30 cents in bulk, but doesn't include the PCB, connectors, jumpers, distribution boards, cables, etc. So, call it $5 per LED.

100 x $5 = $500, plus $450 for the PD-LEDs.

$1K just in LAMPS!

#117 2 years ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

They're all direct controlled with PD-LED boards from Multimorphic, not some inferior serial chain garbage. So yeah, there's cost in hardware.

Here we go again...

Aaron
FAST Pinball

#118 2 years ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

They're all direct controlled with PD-LED boards from Multimorphic, not some inferior serial chain garbage. So yeah, there's cost in hardware.

I find it really hard to do anything but ignore your post after your choice of words, so I guess I'll give you a chance to actually explain your stance. Given that no production facility in their right mind would be likely to choose to direct wire 100+ RGB LEDs, why do you call a serial method "garbage"? Just because the Multi.....

Quoted from fastpinball:

Here we go again...
Aaron
FAST Pinball

LOL

Yeah, I'm done. Couldn't even get the post out beforehand... He picked what was right for his situation. That doesn't mean that it's "right" for mass production viability.

#119 2 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

why do you call a serial method "garbage"?

See WOZ for why serial lamps are bad. It's very electrically noisy under a pinball machine, lots of interference can disrupt the serial signal.

Also, the more serial chains you have, the higher the latency as you send out more and more serial data to the LEDs, so you get lag in your light shows. Not an issue with PD-LED.

#120 2 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

Yeah, I'm done. Couldn't even get the post out beforehand... He picked what was right for his situation. That doesn't mean that it's "right" for mass production viability.

Ask JJP about how much money they've 'burned' on light board changes/revisions/replacements/etc - what exactly about any of that is "right" for mass production?

12
#121 2 years ago

So many experts in this thread! I'm sure there will be 10x new TAs built by by morning all across the country at this rate.

It would be nice if a thread could stay civil for a change. It's quite fair to say that you wouldn't want to pay $xxxx for a machine, or even that you wouldn't want it for free.

I find it extremely rude to sit back and tell someone how much their machine should cost in parts alone (and speculating on those parts at that!), and give the original creator no compensation for his time? Design? Code? Audio work? Video work?

Honestly it just seems rude to me. If Scott were ever so lucky as to sell his machine, I would recommend he price it at whatever he sees fit, and that those who were theoretically able to buy it would be lucky to do so.

14
#122 2 years ago

I was at the Dead Flip stream for TA . Upon the completion of the live stream everyone had an opportunity to play any of Scott's pins and he has an awesome collection ranging from Earthshaker to The Big Lebowski. But guess what...everyone stayed on Total Annihilation for the rest of the night. People were waiting to play it. That's when I was convinced that it was a special pin and wouldn't have a problem selling if it went to production.

#123 2 years ago
Quoted from jwilson:

It's very electrically noisy under a pinball machine, lots of interference

Is there some legitimate reason that shielded cabling can't be used here?

Quoted from epthegeek:

Ask JJP about how much money they've 'burned' on light board changes/revisions/replacements/etc - what exactly about any of that is "right" for mass production?

So why isn't Stern having issues on the same level as JJP? They're using serial now as well, if I'm not mistaken?

#124 2 years ago

I would say that stern is just lucky.... For the moment

#125 2 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

Is there some legitimate reason that shielded cabling can't be used here?

They did. Didn't help.

So why isn't Stern having issues on the same level as JJP? They're using serial now as well, if I'm not mistaken?

Stern uses a similar technique to the PD-LED - RS485 to LED boards.

#126 2 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

Given that no production facility in their right mind would be likely to choose to direct wire 100+ RGB LEDs, why do you call a serial method "garbage"?

I believe that DP/TBL is also using PD-LEDs, "direct wired". Now they are also using custom lamp boards, which obviously reduces the amount of actual wiring involved, but the LEDs are not serial. Scott is using a couple of custom boards as well, and could probably use more if this game went to production, which can reduce labor and wire costs.

#127 2 years ago

the amount of time that Scott has spent on this project is astronomical. I have a handle on some of it and the rest is over my head where I'm like a primate banging on the monolith with a skull in 2001.

-c

#128 2 years ago

Can someone please post a high quality photo of the current playfield layout? Loved the gameplay in the videos.

12
#129 2 years ago

IMG_7313 (resized).JPG

#130 2 years ago

Nice shot of The Danesi Lock

#131 2 years ago

Just watched 20 mins of the dead flip stream. I was like, pffftt no ramps what is this nonsense. 5 mins into the stream and im like, i have to play this! Looks freakin sweet. Well done Scott. Go Spooky! Get me one under <$6k shipped please

Side note: does it have shaker support? If not, any plans to add? the slings and pop bumper could really add a nice effect while playing.

-1
#132 2 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

dude has an obsession with me and WOOLY. Best off to not feed his trolling.
He has zero clue about anything. I am pretty sure nobody can build this and sell it for under 5k, but if they can, then count me in for 2 of them!
IF this were to ever happen I predict 7k price tag at best!

He could flat packaged it like IKEA with crazy assembly instructions. =$ 4.9K ... JK.

#133 2 years ago

Anybody got any sweet mode ideas?

#134 2 years ago
Quoted from bangerjay:

Anybody got any sweet mode ideas?

Shoot a stand up target to start it flashing, shoot the pop bumper to lock it in. Lock in all 5 targets to start a multiball where the pop bumper is the only jackpot. Lock in all 5 targets during multiball and hit the pop bumper for unlimited supers.

Edit - the reactor targets aren't involved here.

#135 2 years ago
Quoted from bangerjay:

Anybody got any sweet mode ideas?

>Idiot in sector 7g mode<
To disable one of the nuclear reactors you have to keep track of 4 inserts flashing "eenie meenie miney moe" faster and faster. The last insert that flashes and turns off you have to remember. Scroll through the 4 inserts with flippers buttons until you have the right one.
Choose right, reactor achieved.
Choose wrong, and the core begins critical mass and begins firing massive multiball. Every ball drained is a penalty (points taken away). You have to feed 5 balls into the scoop to cool it down.

#136 2 years ago
Quoted from bangerjay:

Anybody got any sweet mode ideas?

Stop trying to make TA like every other modern game!

The joy is in the rules that will fit on an instruction card, but a depth of play and strategies that keep you coming back to try and master them.

#137 2 years ago
Quoted from jwilson:

PD-LED - RS485 to LED boards.

Let me preface this whole thing by saying that I'm extremely interested in this subject and want to learn as much as I can, because I have two custom pin projects that I'd REALLY like to do in the near future, and I'm a learner at heart. If any of this comes off....dickish..it's really not intended as such, I'm just overly excitable when it comes to tech nerdery.

Okay, I get the fact that PD-LED boards are expensive because they AREN'T mass produced. I assume cost would come down substantially if they were, for a production machine. I agree that the cost of those isn't negligible. So let's ignore that for a sec..

I'm just trying to bump up my level of technical knowledge here, because it seems we're just talking at cross-purposes about the same bloody thing, and Ep doesn't really seem to want to coherently explain what he said, only provide one company (that's produced two actual games) that did it wrong. PD-LED uses serial COMMUNICATION (RS485 is a serial COMMUNICATION protocol. PD-LED doesn't "talk to LED boards via RS485" AFAIK?!?), but the LEDs themselves are not wired *SERIALLY*, which I never suggested is the best way to handle it. I might even be willing to admit that I might've originally confused -myself- on the difference.

So again, I'm back to my original question. What's the freakin' beef with serial COMMUNICATION, given that Scott is using PD-LED, and it works fine, Stern's use seems to be fine or is it only serial *wiring of addressable lamps* that people/JJP are having an issue with, which doesn't even affect the PD-LED because that's not how it's designed to operate.

Someone shoot me a *PM* if they care to have this discussion, I don't want to clog up the thread any further with my knowledge chase.

Quoted from Bonnevil69:

I would say that stern is just lucky.... For the moment

Oh right, just like they got lucky with so many other quality control things, right? Sorry, I don't buy this at all.

NOW....

Back on topic, thanks for posting that top-down shot of the playfield.. I couldn't watch enough of the streams to figure out what was going on, it's much clearer how the game shoots to me now. Can't wait to see it in person next week!

#138 2 years ago
Quoted from bangerjay:

I think the art will be 80's style trapper keeper. Scott is committed to the retro thing, damn fool purposely bought a fiero

Having owned three Fieros (in the 90s), I give that purchase an enthusiastic thumbs up!

#139 2 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

What's the freakin' beef with serial COMMUNICATION

Well, there's two methods for serial. One is using cheap WS2812 serial RGB LEDs, where basically you connect them all together in a chain - power and RX/TX lines - and you send serial commands down the line. The serial data is sent like a bucket brigade from one LED device to the next until the appropriate LED sees a command meant for itself and it plucks that out of the stream before sending the data on.

This is how WOZ did it. The drawbacks are that any break in the chain or power screws any downstream LED, and that you have increasing latency in passing commands with each additional LED in the chain as they have to read and transmit. Also, there are more chances for interference to screw up the serial data and cause the wrong LEDs to light, or to be stuck on, etc.

In contrast, the PD-LED method uses a single RS485 connection to the board, generally a single set of wires, and power is run separately to the board to directly power the LEDs. RS485 is a very robust protocol - it's used in cars, a very noisy environment - so it's more fault-tolerant, and the single serial signal is easier to isolate and shield. Also, there is less latency involved because there is only a single RX/TX to the board, not a chain of them, so response time is much faster and more reliable.

If you're interested in custom games, I suggest checking out Pinball Makers. http://pinballmakers.com/

#140 2 years ago
Quoted from toyotaboy:

I played the living crap out of total annihilation on the PC (it was the better version of command & conquer and red alert). Bogged the hell down if you had a couple dozen machines on the screen at the same time on a pentium 90mhz.

TA was *the* best RTS back in the day. Full 3D rendered units made movement much more realistic, and the ability to queue orders on the production facilities was novel and really let you concentrate on the war and not micromanagement. Oh yea, and Big Bertha. And the Buzzsaw. Too bad Kingdoms was such a stinker...

#141 2 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

dude has an obsession with me and WOOLY. Best off to not feed his trolling.
He has zero clue about anything. I am pretty sure nobody can build this and sell it for under 5k, but if they can, then count me in for 2 of them!
IF this were to ever happen I predict 7k price tag at best!

I just find it Highly amusing how much of an expert you are in an area you support, but have no real experience in. All you have is a large wallet and an obsession with making sure games like this don't see large runs

#142 2 years ago

Rules/modes, this could be a good place to spitball

#143 2 years ago
Quoted from bangerjay:

Rules/modes, this could be a good place to spitball

Scott doesn't want spitballs from random pinsiders. He just wants to make his game.

Edit: Upon further reflection, you probably know this and are just trolling him.

#144 2 years ago
Quoted from lordloss:

I just find it Highly amusing how much of an expert you are in an area you support, but have no real experience in. All you have is a large wallet and an obsession with making sure games like this don't see large runs

Shady as it may sound, he's not wrong. Limited production runs give it that "These are hard to get" "only xx of these exsit" brag factor that so many people give a crap about.

#145 2 years ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

Shady as it may sound, he's not wrong. Limited production runs give it that "These are hard to get" "only xx of these exsit" brag factor that so many people give a crap about.

dont waste your time on him Eric. He has proven time and time over that he has no interest in actual discussion or actual concept of how things work. People have attempted to help him out numerous times with things and he has continually thrown fits anytime people even try to help him out (MGC after party pass in case you want a memory jog).

I personally think that a limited run is a great tool to help market when you already have to overcome the "no ramps" bias on a game that is obviously well worth as much as any other modern era deck and actually has tons jam packed in it beyond that of most modern decks. He is incapable of actually having that conversation and instead is fixated on some idea of me wanting games to be limited. He does not understand that what I want is games to get MADE, and sometimes you need to use marketing tools to make that happen.

worth mention that I think that is the first time anyone has referred to me as having deep pockets, lol

since when did limited edition = shady?

#146 2 years ago
Quoted from Mocean:

So many experts in this thread! I'm sure there will be 10x new TAs built by by morning all across the country at this rate.
It would be nice if a thread could stay civil for a change. It's quite fair to say that you wouldn't want to pay $xxxx for a machine, or even that you wouldn't want it for free.
I find it extremely rude to sit back and tell someone how much their machine should cost in parts alone (and speculating on those parts at that!), and give the original creator no compensation for his time? Design? Code? Audio work? Video work?
Honestly it just seems rude to me. If Scott were ever so lucky as to sell his machine, I would recommend he price it at whatever he sees fit, and that those who were theoretically able to buy it would be lucky to do so.

they are remaking Torpedo alley? Awesome. that game is a good time. Hope they change all the standups to drops.

11
#147 2 years ago

We can finally put the name issue to rest.

Scott and I have discussed it and agreed the new name will be Starcraft.

Quoted from CaptainNeo:

they are remaking Torpedo alley? Awesome. that game is a good time. Hope they change all the standups to drops.

#148 2 years ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

Scott doesn't want spitballs from random pinsiders. He just wants to make his game.
Edit: Upon further reflection, you probably know this and are just trolling him.

Nah, there's a chance that an idea can be laid out that's easy to implement and Scott hadn't thought of, and might be fun

#149 2 years ago
Quoted from Mocean:

We can finally put the name issue to rest.
Scott and I have discussed it and agreed the new name will be Starcraft.

starcraft would be an awesome pin. Mine resources to build up to buy modes. Enemies come to try and steal your resources, so you would have to maintain the enemies back while mining. Could be an awesome concept.

#150 2 years ago

I'm also trying to steer things away from the bickering. It reminds me of those old cartoon fights, where it's just a ball of dust with arms and legs protruding out and it keeps rolling on, gathering up shit in it's way. No purpose, no progress

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