(Topic ID: 183527)

Total Nuclear Annihilation production by Spooky Pinball


By Grizlyrig

2 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 7,247 posts
  • 627 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 45 days ago by epthegeek
  • Topic is favorited by 183 Pinsiders

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“Would you buy this if Spooky Pinball built it? How much would you be willing to pay?”

  • Yes 156 votes
    14%
  • No 218 votes
    19%
  • Maybe 186 votes
    16%
  • $5500-5750 323 votes
    28%
  • $5751-6000 98 votes
    9%
  • $6001-6250 63 votes
    6%
  • $6251-6500 44 votes
    4%
  • $6501-6750 18 votes
    2%
  • $6751-7000 34 votes
    3%

(Multiple choice - 1140 votes by 938 Pinsiders)

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Topic index (key posts)

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There are 7247 posts in this topic. You are on page 23 of 145.
#1101 2 years ago
Quoted from JosiahCox:

What discussion? You don't like the art or the fact that it's a girl so what is there to discuss? If it bothers you that much don't buy the game and stop being so antagonistic with your comments.

Well, an actual discussion could have gone something like this: "I disagree, I don't have any issue with having a girl hero, but to each his own." Instead it went something like "well, if you weren't such an old white male sexist unimaginative jerk you would clearly see that the entire world aside from you finds nothing about the artwork to critique and so you should get over your woman hatred and learn to just go along with the loudest voices in the crowd or we will shout you down on Pinside like any of this really matters."

For the record, in my original post I thought I was pretty polite and acknowledged the absolute right of others to disagree as well as noting that Scott has created a brilliant game regardless of the artwork. I guess that wasn't good enough for some.

-1
#1102 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinfactory2000:

was really hoping for something a little less cartoony but still excited to see this.

Metallica, Ghostbusters, and Aerosmith are the cartooniest games of all time, and everyone loves that art.

#1103 2 years ago
Quoted from thedarkknight77:

This is ridiculous. Listen, we all love Scott and think the guy is a genius, but come on
People! TA is an awesome game, but if the art package is going to prevent him from reaching the games sales potential......then we are actually helping him. Would you so called "loving friends" really let him make a foolish mistake just so you could protect his feelings??? When he decided to produce this game with Spooky, he entered the world of business and when business people don't listen to their potential customers, the outcome is usually poor. I am less concerned about the backglass as I will just have another one made, but if the playfield art sucks, I am out. That's how it goes when you are paying $6000+ for a game. How many times have we seen this???? Don't repeat the mistakes of others.......There are a lot of people who don't like this art and feel it doesn't fit the game.

On the other hand there are people like me who had no interest in the game but now do because they've seen the art and found it appealing.

12
#1104 2 years ago

I listened to the newest podcast for this pin with Scott Danesi to keep up with the latest info, but to also try to fully understand the artwork as he envisioned it and compare it to what was released.

Scott has described the intent on artwork in detail, which is called 80's future realism. As he mentioned, it is a big scene and there are lots of people into it. There are a lot of examples of 80's future realism out there, here's a google search.
https://www.google.ca/search?q=retro+futurism+80s+outrun&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi269DRy_TTAhXizFQKHY2xBqoQ_AUIBigB&biw=1130&bih=575#safe=off&tbm=isch&q=retro+futurism+80s+

The TNA artwork released does show this influence strongly; much of the artwork is very faithful to the style of 80's future realism. We see it with the neon colors, grid lines, geometric shapes, technology shown, etc. The artwork is faithful to that style everywhere,...... except in the drawing of the woman imo. And many here have posted the same thing, so I find there is something to this. As some have noted, she looks more like a 90's style of drawing. The 80's style of drawing people tended to have either less detail or more realism. Browse the images in the earlier google link to see many examples of drawing people in the style of 80's future realism. Sorry, I do not see this style in the woman as drawn on the artwork.

The drawing shown of the woman is a middle-of-the road detail and cartoon style that I found became popular in the 90's and 2000's. I have to agree at this point that there is merit to the feedback that the style of the woman is not as congruent with the overall art package as it could have been and as described by Scott.

Don't get me wrong on the drawing of the woman. Matt Andrews is a great artist and it's great, amazing, it's just not the style typically used in 80's retro futurism. And no, this is not about anything else some have alluded to here, such as it being a woman, or needing more sexy, etc. I appreciate the 80's style future realism look Scott was going for, I just expected the woman on the backglass to be more in that style; a woman with either less detail or more realism and more drawn in the well-known look of 80's future realism (again, browse the images in the google link above). And because drawing people into artwork is probably the most important element to the overall feel, I end up finding the released artwork to be more 90's style. As it sits now, that drawing of the woman contrasts the rest of the 80's style future realism look.

According to the podcast, two backglasses will come with it, one without the numeric displays and one with. And this feedback is supposedly all for naught. Scott has said the artwork is not changing.

That was just my take here, and I'm not slamming things. I look forward to the next information released.

#1105 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Metallica, Ghostbusters, and Aerosmith are the cartooniest games of all time, and everyone loves that art.

I'd say Bugs Bunny is probably the most cartoony game of all time...Or maybe mario...

Either way there's a difference between cartoony and being cutesy IMO. GB is certainly cutesy...But its a pin made after a comedy after all...

I'm glad you love the art. Varying opinions on something subjective like 'art' is allowed.

#1106 2 years ago
Quoted from mandraws:

Now convert your image to CMYK and see what happens to your colors.

First of all: Awesome work! Detail, proportions... great!

CMYK ist the worst - true... That's why I only trust conversion and ripping to the most experienced people. I won't do RGB->CMYK myself.

Try "US Web Coated (SWOP) V2" to convert. That one works for the translites I do pretty good... honestly I don't know how much CMYK magic our printer guy does when he gets the files... my guess is A LOT

TNA_cmyk (resized).jpg

#1107 2 years ago
Quoted from mayuh:

First of all: Awesome work! Detail, proportions... great!
CMYK ist the worst - true... That's why I only trust conversion and ripping to the most experienced people. I won't do RGB->CMYK myself.
Try "US Web Coated (SWOP) V2" to convert. That one works for the translites I do pretty good... honestly I don't know how much CMYK magic our printer guy does when he gets the files... my guess is A LOT

Before reading this thread i had the same thought as far as a "color correction" goes.

Great art. Have to follow Scotts vision on this one.

#1108 2 years ago
Quoted from ezeltmann:

Have to follow Scotts vision on this one.

...I have to pre-order

#1109 2 years ago

Can you all imagine the freak out when 'Prince: Paisley Park Pinball' gets announced!?

ppp.jpg

10
#1110 2 years ago
Quoted from dzoomer:

I listened to the newest podcast for this pin with Scott Danesi to keep up with the latest on the pin, but to also try to fully understand the artwork as he envisioned it and compare it to what was released.
Scott has described the intent on artwork in detail, which is called 80's future realism. As he mentioned, this is a big scene and there are lots of people into it. There are a lot of example of 80's future realism out there, here's a google search.
https://www.google.ca/search?q=retro+futurism+80s+outrun&safe=off&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi269DRy_TTAhXizFQKHY2xBqoQ_AUIBigB&biw=1130&bih=575#safe=off&tbm=isch&q=retro+futurism+80s+
The TNA artwork released does show this influence strongly; much of the artwork is very faithful to the style of 80's future realism. We see it with the neon colors, with the grid lines, geometric shapes, technology shown, etc. The artwork is faithful to that style everywhere,...... except in the drawing of the woman imo. And many here have posted the same thing, so I find there is something to this. As some have noted, she looks more like a 90's style of drawing. The 80's style of drawing people tended to have either less detail or more realism. Browse the images in the earlier google link to see many examples of drawing people in the style of 80's future realism. Sorry, I do not see this style in the woman as drawn on the artwork.
The drawing shown of the woman is a middle-of-the road detail and cartoon style that I found became popular in the 90's and 2000's. I have to agree at this point that there is merit to the feedback that the style of the woman is not as congruent with the overall art package as it could have been and as described by Scott.
Don't get me wrong on the drawing of the woman. Matt Andrews is a great artist and it's great, amazing, it's just not the style typically used in 80's retro futurism. And no, this is not about anything else some have alluded to here about it being a woman, or needs more sexy, etc. I appreciate the 80's style future realism look Scott was going for; I just expected the woman on the backglass to be more in that style; a woman with either less detail or more realism and more drawn in the well-known look of 80's future realism (again, browse the images in the google link above). As it sits now, that drawing of the woman contrasts the rest of the 80's style future realism look. And because drawing people in artwork is probably the most important driver for the overall feel, I end up finding the released artwork to be more 90's style.
According to the podcast, two backglasses will come with it, one without the numeric displays and one with. And this feedback is supposedly all for naught. Scott has said the artwork is not changing.
That was just my take here, and I'm not slamming things. I look forward to the next information released.

IMO this post sums up what I think a bunch of people have been trying (some attempts far better than others) to convey.

The work itself is great, the cohesiveness of the girl and her environment seem disconnected. Originally, I thought that was the intent. Why would someone in the past look at all like their surroundings in the future? But according to Scott it was intended to follow the 80's future realism. If that is truly the intent, the girl could use some refinement.

I think it would be great for the creative process to run the revisions by your most hardcore artist friends and ask for critique. Where it is not about what is good, but what could be better. Any artist is used to this process, so I am sure Matt won't be offended. Do not waste time running it by pinball buddies or "yes men" at this stage.

Keep at it.

Aaron
FAST Pinball

#1111 2 years ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

It's almost as if that's what it would look like if there were light bulbs behind it to make things brighter. Imagine the innovation if they did THAT with a pinball machine. Mind. Blown.

The colours are significantly different. It's not just a case of adjusting contrast.

#1112 2 years ago

Ahhh, the artgument phase of pinball design...

#1113 2 years ago
Quoted from dzoomer:

I listened to the newest podcast for this pin with Scott Danesi to keep up with the latest on the pin, but to also try to fully understand the artwork as he envisioned it and compare it to what was released....

That whole post sums up the dissonance in the art perfectly. I actually LOVE the concept and theme and completely understand what Scott's going for. And all of the elements in the art are fantastic: Mushroom cloud, grid lines, soldiers, Crystl cola... a Geo Tracker... Lionman...

(...even a subtle Pat Lawlor tribute via the detonator in her hand?! Can we get "Any time... any where!" hidden in the art? The phrase actually fits the title theme!)

And as far as the girl goes, I have no problems with a female hero, and even her "style" which I personally find rather cute. But I agree... something about it just doesn't "fit". She might look futuristic relative to the flashback 80's environment... but not in a way that seems to fit the rest of the art. Maybe that's actually the point in order to highlight the fact that she IS from the future... but I don't know. She almost seems like a photoshop paste-in to another scene.

It's certainly an interesting concept and a challenging one to execute, and I applaud the work done so far. It would not prevent me from owning this game (pricing might). Love the concept and gameplay videos, the homebrew nature, the fresh takes on old concepts, the MUSIC, everything about it. This might be the first game I'd seriously consider being stupid for to get NIB.

#1114 2 years ago

I didn't understand the part of the interview where Scott said there would be one version of the backglass with the scores and one without (in case they needed to cost out the score displays). He later said the scores would be lined up below the backglass. So you wouldn't really need another version, right?

#1115 2 years ago
Quoted from goingincirclez:

She might look futuristic relative to the flashback 80's environment... but not in a way that seems to fit the rest of the art. Maybe that's actually the point in order to highlight the fact that she IS from the future... but I don't know. She almost seems like a photoshop paste-in to another scene.

That makes sense, but unfortunately it isn't the theme as Scott has described it. She is not from the future. From http://www.scottdanesi.com/?p=765

The year is 1988. You will be traveling from this time into the distant future to stop a civilization from discovering reverse time travel. This civilization is pretty advanced, but their weak point is that they run nuclear power as their main source to the power grid. You will need to activate and destroy all 9 main reactors that they have on the island. Unfortunately, you will not be able to return.

Quoted from Rascal_H:

I didn't understand the part of the interview where Scott said there would be one version of the backglass with the scores and one without (in case they needed to cost out the score displays). He later said the scores would be lined up below the backglass. So you wouldn't really need another version, right?

It was a little confusing. I took away similar info.

#1116 2 years ago

old_man_yells_at_cloud.jpg

I'm sure the art could have been just about anything and people would still have been unhappy. this happens with every single game without exception.

oh it's clip art
the cartoon doesn't look like the real people
too much cut and paste
not hand drawn
too cartoony
too much brown
not enough blood
whatever

Play the game, get the feel of it and then be a judgey bastard. .

-c

#1117 2 years ago
Quoted from Rascal_H:

I didn't understand the part of the interview where Scott said there would be one version of the backglass with the scores and one without (in case they needed to cost out the score displays). He later said the scores would be lined up below the backglass. So you wouldn't really need another version, right?

The backglass shown here is the version they would use if they have to cut out the alpha displays due to cost. There is a second one in development which will include the display openings which will all be aligned along the bottom of the backglass. This second backglass will look just like this one, only with the addition of display openings. They are in the works on having a cost effective version of the alpha displays made. If it works out the backglass show here will not be needed. They are just trying to cover all their bases.

#1118 2 years ago
Quoted from CraigC:

I'm sure the art could have been just about anything and people would still have been unhappy. this happens with every single game without exception.

I think its just natural anytime there is a personal vision formed before the thing. Happens all the time with movies... "wasn't as good as the book, etc". On reveal there was no art so people formed their own vision and when it was revealed of course it didn't match everyone's own individual vision. That adds an immediate dislike. But as time goes by and the art itself begins to replace peoples personal vision that will fade.

20
#1119 2 years ago

I work daily in a custom botique industry, where no two designs are alike, and the final product is unique to it's customer.

My customers seek me out because they believe in my ability to bring multiple divergent fabrication skills together into a cohesive package. Almost every customer has a general idea of what direction they want the final product to look like aesthetically, but trust in my experience and vision to deliver a holistic package that is as individualistic as they are. Though many weigh in during the process and make comments both in favor of and against the final piece, the truth is that I am designing and fabricating for an audience of one. As long as I please the bespoke customer, I have succeeded.

Scott has undertaken a project that also has a final endpoint based on his vision. He has been blessed with enthusiastic support from those looking in from the outside. People like what he's done, they believe in his vision, they want to share in it...that is why this is such an active thread, why so many have opinions, and Spooky is committed to production. But what folks have to understand is that Scott is NOT designing this game for you, or his best friends, or for Spooky; he is designing this game for himself. If he is satisfied with the final product, he has succeeded.

The constant criticism of the work in progress is demoralizing. I know from experience it takes a toll. Give Scott and Matt a break.

His desire to share the development of the game has been a blessing, as it has been a rare look into a process that very few on this board will ever embark on personally. I look forward to the final product; if Scott's vision speaks to me I'll buy one, if not, I'll have enjoyed watching the process but will keep any negative comments to myself. I hope others will do likewise.

#1120 2 years ago
Quoted from dzoomer:

That makes sense, but unfortunately it isn't the theme as Scott has described it. She is not from the future. From http://www.scottdanesi.com/?p=765
The year is 1988. You will be traveling from this time into the distant future to stop a civilization from discovering reverse time travel. This civilization is pretty advanced, but their weak point is that they run nuclear power as their main source to the power grid. You will need to activate and destroy all 9 main reactors that they have on the island. Unfortunately, you will not be able to return.

Whoops... you are of course correct, and yes I did read that before. I obviously still couldn't help reverting to how I subconsciously interpret the image itself. Which I guess accidentally proves the point, so to speak.

Anyway, I'm not trying to be negative... the game Scott has developed so far is nothing short of amazing, and this backglass art is fantastic and I love it as it is. I just wonder how much more incredible it would be without that detail nag, but then most games have their little quirks anyway. It's a fun point for discussion at any rate. WHO THIS GIRL AND WHERE SHE COME FROM LOOKIN' LIKE THAT?!

Scott and the whole crew deserve MASSIVE accolades for everything shown thus far. I'd support them directly if I were able!

#1121 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

On the other hand there are people like me who had no interest in the game but now do because they've seen the art and found it appealing.

And this pin might be finished sooner than TBL

#1122 2 years ago
Quoted from Nelly:

The backglass shown here is the version they would use if they have to cut out the alpha displays due to cost. There is a second one in development which will include the display openings which will all be aligned along the bottom of the backglass. This second backglass will look just like this one, only with the addition of display openings. They are in the works on having a cost effective version of the alpha displays made. If it works out the backglass show here will not be needed. They are just trying to cover all their bases.

But where would the 17" TFT screen go?

#1123 2 years ago
Quoted from Rody:

His desire to share the development of the game has been a blessing, as it has been a rare look into a process that very few on this board will ever embark on personally. I look forward to the final product; if Scott's vision speaks to me I'll buy one, if not, I'll have enjoyed watching the process but will keep any negative comments to myself. I hope others will do likewise.

Well said. I really appreciate the updates as the game progresses. While I understand why the manufacturers in general keep tight lids on upcoming games, it's a pleasant change of pace to actually get information about the game I'm genuinely interested as it's coming along.

Along those lines, what is the Mr. K podcast? I'd be interested in checking out the latest interview. Thanks!

#1124 2 years ago
Quoted from Rasavage:

Well said. I really appreciate the updates as the game progresses. While I understand why the manufacturers in general keep tight lids on upcoming games, it's a pleasant change of pace to actually get information about the game I'm genuinely interested as it's coming along.
Along those lines, what is the Mr. K podcast? I'd be interested in checking out the latest interview. Thanks!

I'm guessing Special K, alias Kaneda?

Edit: bingo! https://soundcloud.com/kanedapinball/episode-122-scott-danesi

Love the podcast, as it eliminates the constant out-of-focus camerawork

#1125 2 years ago
Quoted from mgpasman:

But where would the 17" TFT screen go?

It will be below the backglass in the speaker panel. Just like the Jetsons pin, but bigger opening for LCD display.

#1126 2 years ago
Quoted from Nelly:

It will be below the backglass in the speaker panel. Just like the Jetsons pin, but bigger opening for LCD display.

So they're ditching the old '78 Bally cabinet-style?

#1127 2 years ago
Quoted from mgpasman:

I'm guessing Special K, alias Kaneda?
Edit: bingo! https://soundcloud.com/kanedapinball/episode-122-scott-danesi
Love the podcast, as it eliminates the constant out-of-focus camerawork

UUUGGHHHH Hate when I have to listen to Special K....

#1128 2 years ago
Quoted from Chitownpinball:

UUUGGHHHH Hate when I have to listen to Special K....

But the other half of the time you're listening to Scott Danesi, who is awesome.

#1129 2 years ago
Quoted from Chitownpinball:

UUUGGHHHH Hate when I have to listen to Special K....

No kidding, I can't tolerate his solo shows at all, but will listen to his interviews as they are often fairly well done. But you could make a drinking game out of everytime he mentions his f'ing Magic Girl and Star Wars.

#1130 2 years ago
Quoted from mgpasman:

So they're ditching the old '78 Bally cabinet-style?

Yes. It will be in a modified Spooky cabinet.

#1131 2 years ago

If you dont like the backglass that comes with it just put this one in there.

image-14 (resized).jpg

#1132 2 years ago
Quoted from Fytr:

No kidding, I can't tolerate his solo shows at all, but will listen to his interviews as they are often fairly well done. But you could make a drinking game out of everytime he mentions his f'ing Magic Girl and Star Wars.

But-umm

#1133 2 years ago

For those who weren't there or don't remember, this is what kids looked like in the 80's. Now back to your regular programming.

Brad

80s.jpg

#1134 2 years ago

Can't believe in this day and age, we are still assigning genders! To me, the humanoid construct appears as a male elephant. Get with the times people!!!

#1135 2 years ago

Cannot tell if serious.

#1136 2 years ago

Cannot tell if Frax is serious that he cannot tell if serious.

#1137 2 years ago

The girl is from the 80's but currently in the future destroying reactors. So maybe it's actually more fitting to have a combination of a contemporary looking girl and 80's retro graphics.

#1138 2 years ago
Quoted from mgpasman:

So they're ditching the old '78 Bally cabinet-style?

From what I could gather the backbox won't be 80's bally. It will be current spooky. The cabinet will be spooky, but modified to be more like 80's bally. I'm guessing that means the glass won't be as steep.

Not sure if they'll be using the Bally wide side rails with laser cut name. Although the new name might not fit.

#1139 2 years ago

I hope they go full Bally and put that purp/pink ball swoosh design on the side with just the word DANESI.

strange_science_2 (resized).jpg

#1140 2 years ago

That would honestly be awesome, actually they should just put
"Totally Awesome" on the side

-5
#1141 2 years ago
Quoted from cooked71:

But guys, the girl is from the 80's but currently in the future destroying reactors. So maybe it's actually more fitting to have a combination of a contemporary looking girl and 80's retro graphics.

Anytime you have to explain your art or story to the audience, you've missed the mark.

#1142 2 years ago
Quoted from Chitownpinball:

UUUGGHHHH Hate when I have to listen to Special K....

I think his podcast is great. interview with Scott is great as well. Keep up the good work Kaneda!

#1143 2 years ago
Quoted from kvan99:

Anytime you have to explain your art or story to the audience, you've missed the mark.

Good point, but it would be pretty hard playing this game without knowing the back story. Being an original theme it needs to be explained somehow. As long as there are no comic books it's all good.

It's funny how the most active and heated arguments on Pinside are always about art. Explain Pinside to an outsider..."yeh, it's a pinball forum where a bunch of middle aged white guys discuss art."

#1144 2 years ago

According to Scott this is what the scoring displays will look like:

IMG_7949 (resized).JPG

But with the LCD display underneath as well, the translite will be quite small. Smaller than Spike 2 maybe?

#1145 2 years ago

I've seen a number of posts with people wanting Scott's name on the pin. Am I missing something? I love Trudeau and Oursler but I don't need their names plastered on the backglass. Next level fanboy stuff going on here.

#1146 2 years ago
Quoted from Rascal_H:

I've seen a number of posts with people wanting Scott's name on the pin. Am I missing something? I love Trudeau and Oursler but I don't need their names plastered on the backglass. Next level fanboy stuff going on here.

It was said under the context of getting around not changing the original name of Total Annihilation to Total Nuclear Annihilation. It was suggested to call it Scott Danesi's Total Annihilation.

19
#1147 2 years ago
Quoted from cooked71:

... it would be pretty hard playing this game without knowing the back story. Being an original theme it needs to be explained somehow.

What is this wacky crap? What's the back story of Cosmic Gunfight? Or Barracora? or ... (shitloads of other old pins).

Ludicrous.

#1148 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinballlew:

It was said under the context of getting around not changing the original name of Total Annihilation to Total Nuclear Annihilation. It was suggested to call it Scott Danesi's Total Annihilation.

Ah, that one makes sense.

#1149 2 years ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

What's the back story of Cosmic Gunfight? Or Barracora?

How long have you got?

#1150 2 years ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

What is this wacky crap? What's the back story of Cosmic Gunfight? Or Barracora? or ... (shitloads of other old pins).
Ludicrous.

Doug wrote a backstory to Algar, b/c we had trouble hitting the flipper buttons w/o it

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