New York, NY
Quoted from delt31:The worst part is if they cut off pinbrowser b/c of this.
They cut off pinbrowser because idiots were selling bootleg pin browser mods for money out of shoddy tents at high profile events like Replay FX.
(Topic ID: 270182)
Linked Games
Jurassic Park (Limited Edition)
Stern, 2019-
Jurassic Park (Premium)
Stern, 2019
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Jurassic Park (Pro)
Stern, 2019
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Quoted from GorillaBiscuits:To each their own... but I overcame this topper dilemma a couple years ago by pulling them off of all my games that had one, selling them, and then never buying one again. With the money I saved I bought more sensible stuff like beer and guitar pedals.
Indeed. My freedom moment was when I realized someone was willing to pay me $500 for the topper on my fish tales, a game I paid $1500 for.
He asked me to pay for shipping but I was like, look bro, if you are willing to pay me $500 for a plastic fish I know you are willing to pay the $30 shipping. Sorry I have to stay firm on this one.
If you want your topper, you are gonna have to pay for it. If it seems dumb and expensive - which all toppers are - don’t suit up and enter the game. Seems pretty simple.
In light of all that’s going on the meltdown about this comes across as pretty petty and insignificant. Just. Don’t. Buy. It.
The big social uprising against these toppers just looks silly. Can’t wait for the move on.org petition.
Quoted from yancy:Love it.
And this was like 5 years ago!
I wonder what a fish tales topper is going for these days.
Quoted from woody76:$500. one just sold not long ago
Sweet! Looks
Like I sold at the height of the market then.
I know the timing may seem a little insensitive, but has anybody considered a March in front of the Stern facility?
It’s really not that hard to do, just show up with signs and stay in public space. I’ve written up a press release, all we need is a date and time.
Who wants in on this? Could be a pretty amazing social justice movement if we play the media the right way.
——
A crowd of pinball consumers, players, and activists will march in front of Stern Pinball, Inc., a global lifestyle brand based on the iconic and outrageously fun modern American game of pinball, in Elk Grove, Illinois, tomorrow evening to protest the release of their new Jurassic Park topper.
The activists say the topper - which is priced at $600, yet features no actual living dinosaurs, or Even lizards with fake horns glued to their heads - is a “cash grab” and affront to the pinball community.
“I’ve dedicated almost 18 months of my life to this hobby, living, breathing, and buying pinball machines, and this is how they repay me?!,” says BigMetalBalls1978 on community forum Pinside.
“This is just another example of the injustice and inequality in today’s society. They are trying to turn this into a hobby for the 1 percenters. How about us upper middle classers who now have to choose between a custom shooter rod and a pin stadium kit or this new topper? It’s outrageous, and it’s disgusting!”
“I don’t even want to get into the lies I’ll have to tell my wife when I finally break down and buy this thing. I’m getting sick of trying to convince her that all of those Stern Inc. charges on the visa bill are actually for a food bank,” BigMetalBalls1978 added.
The stern topper release is only the latest attempt by the world’s largest pinball company to make money. Activists say other offenses include building pinball machines and selling them for money, and also continuing to sell the cheapest full size commercial pinball machines on the market by a sizable margin. Activists also say Stern uses mind-control technology to force consumers to buy their overpriced, clunky add-ons, and that the company employs a sinister and controversial predatory “FOMO” strategy to exploit and pillage those most vulnerable in the pinball community.
The fiery debate and condemnation even spilled over to moribund cyber-wasteland and competitive pinball player discussion site Tiltforums, for about 3 minutes until the thread was swiftly locked and deleted by the insane Tiltforums moderation team.
“What is this, communist Russia?! It’s insane that they are selling this expensive add on nobody needs. $600 is an outrageous price for a hunk of plastic with LEDs on it, when I can buy a pinstadium kit with about $10 in raw materials for only $300. Plus, what are the untold ramifications of this topper on Tournament Play? THere's just too many questions!!!” ranted Corndog15 on the site before the post was swiftly deleted, banished to the cyber ether forever for violating site terms forbidding interesting posts and discussion.
Protesters will march in front of the facility, chanting slogans like “Topper is a Flopper!!,” “We are NOT your Topper Bottom Bitch!” And “We Wont Stop Till Theres Change at the Top!” Some will wear t-shirts bearing the movement’s popular and hilarious rallying cry of “For $600 this topper better gratify me sexually!!”
Bottles of KY jelly will be distributed to protesters to throw at Gary Stern’s goons and private army of riot consultants, and organizers plan a “Bend over for Gary” action to demonstrate how they feel personally violated by this topper release.
Local civic officials are expected to speak. Activists will attempt to deliver a petition to Gary Stern, urging him to engage with the community and reconsider his controversial “I like to make money” policy.
This is only one of of many pinball protests Planned by activists this week. A “BTTF, Not Hot Wheels!” rally is planned in front of the American Pinball facility on Saturday, along with a “Release Something Already and Take my Money!” Protest planned at Illinois’ own Jersey Jack Pinball facility the following Sunday.
Quoted from EricHadley:My topper will be here middle of next week!
Why do you hate the pinball community?!?!?!
You sir are a monster!
Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:WOW that was creative. I spent my time extracting a stinger from a bald faced hornet I killed tonight.[quoted image][quoted image]
What in gods name did you do that for?
Some kind of voodoo? Miracle cure? Art project?
Quoted from John_I:Sorry but I have no problem with this. You are buying an expensive topper and should get something a little extra value added for your money. You pay for extra features on Premiums and LEs. There is software that comes with those too. Is that DLC too? Give me a break.
Was there this type of ruckus when Tron LE came out and had a multi ball the pro didn’t?
No there wasn’t. But then that was 8 or 9 years ago and the hobby was a very different place.
Quoted from cooked71:Seriously doubt it's sold out.
Apart from the obvious cash grab and the fact this is the latest in a long list of "F*ck U" messages to Stern customers, I personally can't stand carry over modes. Too random. Its up there with midnight madness modes for me.
Yeah. Carry over modes are just a novelty. They've been in dozens (hundreds?) of games and it's hard to think a great game that has one. Except for Rollergames and EBD I think, and neither are great because of the carry over mode.
It's something that made a lot more sense in the nickel and dime days when pinball was still more associated with gambling.
A Carry Over mode is a nice value add to help convince people that this pop up book is worth $600. I wouldn't lose any sleep over not having the mode on your game. There's very little pressure or reason for someone to cough up $600 for a carry over mode novelty.
Quoted from Psw757:If the Beatles topper was $399 how is this one not the same. Seems to function the same .
This may shock you but most places don’t set a selling price in direct accordance to what the bill of materials is or even what the “function” is.
It’s possible that someone at Stern did the math and figures that more people will pay more money for a Jurassic Park topper than they will for a Beatles topper, and set the price accordingly. It could be that the raw materials cost is exactly the same. In fact, Jurassic might even cost less to make!! The idea is to make as much money in sales as possible. This translates into more “profits.”
It may seem confusing, but when you explore the concept of “selling stuff” it’s often a complex deep dive.
There are baseball cards that have sold for over a million bucks. The BOM can’t be more than a few cents on those!
I don’t know how much wood and metal is involved in building a Gibson Les Paul, but I can assure you it isn’t $6999. And yet....that’s what some new ones sell for!
It’s crazy.
Quoted from Waxx:I can never tell if you are serious or just making straw man arguments for fun.
Baseball cards = rare, old, collectible.
Les Paul = Artisan made in Nashville and is a required tool for a profession.
Stern Topper = new, available, cheap, and pointless.
At least make your sarcastic and trolling posts with a valid comparison like moderrn art prints.
So you think that the pricing of a stern topper needs to be done directly in line with whatever the BOM is?
And the Gibson analogy is perfect. Their $7000 Les paul signature customs have the exact same materials as a $4500 regular Les Paul custom. Which in turn has slightly more “materials” in it than a $1999 Les Paul standard. The prices reflect what they think they can sell a particular model for, not the actual dollars and cents in every different model’s BOM.
Buy it or don’t. Prove Stern’s bean counters wrong; they have determined that $600 is the correct and most profitable price for their JP topper, which is the same way they came up with the price for their $400 beatles topper.
Quoted from guitarded:Only it's a poor one;
Not all wood is equal.
Not all Parts are equal.
Not all finshes are equal.
Not all luthiers are equal.
That said, Gibson couldn't sell me anything they are kicking out of their factory these days.
I’m no expert.
But is there really any “BOM” difference between a Gibson Les Paul custom that costs $7500 and one that costs $4700?
I don’t see it.
Analogy valid!!
Regardless, I’m sure we can all agree that Stern can sell whatever they want for however much they want, and are not beholden to “bom” when making these decisions.
Quoted from delt31:It's embarrassing. Stern says how dumb are these people...... Oh wow they're REALLY dumb bc we just sold out!
It's not even about the overpriced topper as much as it's the fact Stern thinks they can now hide modes behind the DLC. And the mode can suck (which it does) but that's not the point. Stern is trying to change the rules and the blind just keep on taking it.
And people who bought this thing are so oblivious to common sense that they boast about buying it. Well congratulations. You're officially a Stern sucker.
Get your, "I'm a Stern sucker" tshirt at flippin out pinball! Quantity is limited of course - Buy buy buy!
The problem is you keep trying to apply real world outrage and emotion with a first world hobby that people indulge in to AVOID that kind of stuff. They don’t want a movement. They just want pinball stuff. They don’t want to engage in a socio-economic political battle; they don’t want to change the world; they just want a Toy to show off to their neighbors and a distraction from the real world.
They just want their OFFICIAL stern JP topper, not some knockoff that costs half as much. Cause these people are collectors In a well to do hobby and that’s what collectors in these hobbies do: buy stuff. And they’ll keep buying it, cause that’s why they are in the hobby in the first place: to buy expensive pinball stuff that they don’t need but can afford.
You are never going to get the response you want. It’s a shallow hobby and this is a shallow protest; in the end, nobody really cares, because the stakes are so incredibly low and the real world ramifications of these complaints/debates cannot possibly be measured as they are so insignificant.
What is your big cause again? Free toppers for everybody? A kinder, gentler Stern?
NOBODY CARES. You need to start to learn that.
You will never be able to ignite the rebellion you want because none of this matters in any way to the people you are trying to rile up.
Quoted from delt31:I would disagree that nobody cares. A lot of people agree that this is BS - in fact 83+ and counting from this thread. Stern can continue treating those collectors like morons who bought this - that's fine. But guess what - it's not going to stop me calling out this as absolute bullshit.
Since day 1, I call them like I see them. This is no diff and I don't need stern to take this off the market to prove my point - I know there are enough dummies who will buy this. I will call them out and do what I can to spotlight what is an absolute disgrace. Period.
There’s lots of things going on in the world that are “an absolute disgrace” but a $600 goat mania pinball topper is not one of them. It’s an absolute disgrace to call something with absolutely zero ramifications in any of our daily lives “an absolute disgrace.” It’s an insult to absolute disgraces everywhere.
Your crusade is petty and pointless.
The grande dame of ALL stern whinefests, the gold standard of pointless and ineffective calls
For revolution among rich and lazy pinball collectors - A Dark Night for Stern - racked up almost 400 upvotes, while accomplishing nothing.
And this one is wheezing along at 90?
What is happening to this social justice movement? It seems to be losing steam.
64D31197-71B5-46BB-BBF8-90E197C4E6A9 (resized).jpegQuoted from beelzeboob:You're in this hobby for entirely the wrong reason, my friend. Hobbies are for enjoyment, and hobbies cost money. Pinball isn't an investment. I've known a couple of guys like you, and I'm really not trying to be mean, but I wish people like you would just leave the hobby. It really sucks the joy out of the room when you have other people that are passionate about all things pinball just because it's pinball--not because it can make them money down the road.
On point.
Quoted from yancy:Funny how some of these upper middle class collectors will drop $10k on a family vacation without batting an eyelash, but "losing" $1k on their "investment" of a pinball machine is a travesty. Spoiler alert: you "lose" every penny you spend on vacation.
This is a new development. Back in the old days (10 years ago) most pinball folks expected to lose about 25 percent of their game‘s value when they opened the box.
Now the very idea is abhorrent to many, and I don’t understand why. Everything else you buy suffers the same kind of depreciation.
If you can’t afford to lose a few bucks on a brand new pinball machine you shouldn’t buy one. If you don’t want to “lose” money on new games, stop buying them. Stick with used.
Quoted from delt31:Yeah no shit. The point is NOT about people wasting their money on dumb shit. It’s the message that is being sent that results in stern thinking they can continue to do this and that ultimately impacts everyone. Yes the mode is terrible and yes it makes it even more foolish to spend money on it BUT stern will continue with this DLC now that fools are buying it and that will result in more modes being lost to the pay wall and I’m sure a good mode will be released and then what?
This isn’t a $60 video game. This is a 9k+ item that shouldn’t have DLC period. If they want to add modes later, they should be free considering upfront was so much to begin with. Sadly, that’s not going to be the case b/c stern sees folks willing to spend and now they’re off to the races.
The point is that insane people are outraged by this and sane people aren’t.
Buy it or don’t. Do we really need a “This Time Stern has Gone Too Far!!!” Thread every 3 months when they sell something new? They clearly have not gone too far. Again.
Quoted from WJxxxx:The REAL test of worth will come when someone comes to sell their machine with a topper on, compared to someone selling without.
What will the price difference be then? I bet it's not $600
This is true for every mod ever, with the possible exception of a color DMD.
To buy a mod is to throw money away.
Quoted from Darscot:I really hate to see Stern just make the same mistakes the gaming industry made. I get they need to expand revenue and DLC is a great way to do that but they are in no position to sell additional software. This is not DLC, this weird having to buy the topper to get a very shallow mode, it's just really bad planning. Stern has to sort out their software issues and release completed games. Trying to sell software when games come out the door no where near complete is just going to be a disaster. Another golden rule is never splinter you community, everyone should be able to purchase your product. Also you need to make people want to buy what your selling. If your going to launch a mode, you need a damn trailer and the mode has to be something people will get excited about. You also need people to be able to buy your upgrades right on the device. So many of these lessons have been learned and them just disregarding that is going to be really bad for business.
Dear lord.
It's not DLC. It's not some paradigm shift that warrants a pearl-clutching thread like this.
It's a TOPPER. Why is this getting bungled and confused by the clueless masses?
You are buying a topper. The cheesy mode nobody likes and nobody wants is just a "value add" that was probably some cutting room floor nonsense that didn't make it into the game.
Stop pretending it's DLC. It's not. It's like when people pay up for a "KISS Silver VIP" concert package. It's $500 for a front floor seat. That's what you are paying for. The other garbage (exclusive VIP gift! (key chain), Special VIP KISS Lanyard! Crowd Free shopping opportunity! Exclusive VIP Tote Bag!) is all useless crap that's not worth anything and you don't really want any of it, it's just there to help you rationalize your purchases of a $500 KISS concert ticket.
Just like this.
Not DLC. A topper. If you think it's worth $600 and you want it, buy it. Ain't nobody dumb enough (i hope) to think they are paying for Goat Mania.
Quoted from Tranquilize:Make downgrading an option for routers. Psychologically, it is much smarter marketing.
No it's not. Why market to cheapskates? Pinball is where it is today because people with extra money like to "upgrade."
Vegas figured that out decades ago. The cheapskates can go to Reno.
Quoted from metallik:I'm sure Keith and all buyers of this topper appreciate your taking the time to speak for them LOL
Stern is selling an additional mode to an existing game. That is paid-for DLC. You can deny it all you want; you're only fooling yourself. In THIS particular instance, the DLC doesn't appear to be worth the money, but what about the next game?
It's not DLC till you can buy it standalone.
That's the criteria I just made up.
Quoted from delt31:It’s poison to this industry and I’ll make sure to be on the record, like the 100+ people who did the same. Peace.
Man I've never seen someone so proud of his 100 upvotes.
It ain't that hard! You are shooting fish in a barrel with your Stern pearl-clutching bro!
Quoted from Darscot:That was a hell of rant maybe you should have bothered to read what I wrote, LOL
Fine I'll read past the first couple sentences next time. People are so touchy when it comes to DLC!
(and yes thanks for the rant opportunity!)
Quoted from calprog:He letter moved and i though it looked cool. Lol
He modded his topper. It's all the rage!
Quoted from jwilson:[quoted image]
The topper in this instance is a total duplication of the backglass. It's bad enough when they just put the title on it again. Who likes this nonsense?
Well yeah but it's got an actual jeep and that was really important to people.
Also, why is the jeep so prominent? It's the focus of the entire topper! Like...I didn't realize that most people think "jeep" when they think of that movie. I probably would have gone with a dinosaur. People can't get enough of dinosaurs.
There's a reason people will pay the big money for the official product instead of the knockoff. It will match the game.
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