(Topic ID: 270182)

Topper DLC - Stern's New Low

By delt31

3 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 936 posts
  • 252 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 months ago by roar
  • Topic is favorited by 15 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

7034B8BA-338F-4301-8BA7-D60CF1E686A0 (resized).jpeg
FB_IMG_1595434049650 (resized).jpg
F0F4A69B-8FFA-46AC-9441-B35A047DF8DD.gif
Gary-Stern-meme-template (1) (resized).jpg
coronavirus-3m-masks-n95-222d669aa944bef30fa86aec23b3198a0d2f589f (resized).jpg
mask (resized).jpg
37381AC2-F43D-4FA5-AF8E-0A2DBA279B46.jpeg
C09C2ECC-6842-4150-93FA-F39D1F125281.gif
20200617_141947 (resized).jpg
E1FEC3D8-89BB-478C-9EF2-A633A4FD0C2D (resized).jpeg
Playstrong.Mask_1070x1070_crop_center (resized).jpg
a2e37a651941b80cf648adc1cb6e9cf50ed8bf5e (resized).jpeg
EC5F2EA7-44F6-4B8E-B621-392580A526CE (resized).jpeg
image (resized).jpg
6F2771F9-46D5-425D-A174-EEF12089D80C (resized).jpeg
A979EA87-9729-4160-9A4D-4E1ED63426C4 (resized).png

There are 936 posts in this topic. You are on page 9 of 19.
#401 3 years ago
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:

Not mine, but here is the unboxing video with a video of the actual game play feature added.
-Spoiler Alert-
GOAT MANIA!

I'd totally be in! For about $200...

They did a nice job with the lighting effects. I think it looks good. Goat mania looks like it makes goat sounds with every switch hit? Similar to the Wilhelm scream mode in Rick or Morty or the secret laugh mode in Shadow.

Maybe Stern will still have Goat Mania in the game virtually so you dont need the topper to play it (similar to Beatles).

Not sure what logic they use to figure out the pricing though. The $250 Batman66 bat signal ceiling projector topper had 3 node boards to give you a giant bat signal appearing on your ceiling at appropriate times during gameplay. Meanwhile, the Batman66 villains topper had no node boards, zero interactivity, no light show of any kind and cost $400. The Black Knight topper had really cool fluid motion of the robotic knight and I think that one as $400?

Its the opposite of their pinball machine pricing. All pro versions of current Stern games are the same price even though the BOM must vary somewhat but topper prices are all over the place.

#402 3 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Okay now you’ve seen the mode. Still upset? I wouldn’t be. That mode is terrible.

Exactly what I was thinking. I want to see more info, but it looks like a joke from that video.

#403 3 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Okay now you’ve seen the mode. Still upset? I wouldn’t be. That mode is terrible.

Agreed. Looks like a mode I'd play a couple times and then permanently disable. The topper itself is pretty nice, but im not a buyer at that price

#404 3 years ago
Quoted from Ericpinballfan:

Spared no expense!

Did you count the ceiling to raise for those who need it?

How tall is this topper?

#405 3 years ago
Quoted from docquest:

Maybe Stern will still have Goat Mania in the game virtually so you dont need the topper to play it (similar to Beatles).

Turn on "More Goats" in the features menu, maybe?

#406 3 years ago

Ok,toppers for to much Money?Look at the lame one they put out for the DP,Le!! And to add fuel to the fire,our new R&M bse edition comes with a interactive topper FOR FREE!!!

10
#407 3 years ago

Really Stern? You guys charge $600 for this and create a generic annoying points based throwaway mode that clearly required minimal effort?

*Installing the $600 JP topper and unlocking the "exclusive" mode...

4479xn (resized).jpg4479xn (resized).jpg

#408 3 years ago
Quoted from Zitt:

No. But they almost have to have some universal serial number in this topper because even Stern isn't stoopid enough to have a "wire"/"jumper detect" feature that can easily be reverse engineered, right?
They probably have a "node board" up in this topper that can be detected by the CPU to enable the "DLC".
Just guessing/spitballing... I have no dog in the race as I've stopped buying Sterns because of the anti-lube they've been providing to their customers since Star Trek. Star Trek was my first and probably only Stern product. Been tempted by Metallica, Stranger Danger, and Star Wars... but I've convinced myself the risk just wasn't worth the short term enjoyment.

Well, imho, JP is way better than Star Trek.
This 18 modes game is only a single mode game for real.

Regarding this topper, It doesn’t bother me to pay for it to get an additional mode, in normal time, you buy a topper to get nothing more, it is just I find this one uncreative. There would have less talks if the topper was the Tilt topper one. Thanks

#409 3 years ago
Quoted from SantaEatsCheese:

Not mine, but here is the unboxing video with a video of the actual game play feature added.
-Spoiler Alert-
GOAT MANIA!

I'd totally be in! For about $200...

Zach is trying to smile and sell it but you know as he opens the box and sees how basic it is, he is thinking, “$600 for this, I can’t believe I’m having to spin this one.”

Not impressed with this topper at all. The new code is the only selling point but sorry Stern, hard pass here.

#410 3 years ago

The topper does look pretty cool. I can't believe people say this should be $200. Sure it doesn't look like $600 but $400 would be a fair price imo.

Bonus mode looks dumb anyway, if they could sell it for less without the bonus mode I'd think that's the way to go.

#411 3 years ago

Why don’t people just bombard stern with calls Monday about the disappointment with topper? Call Gary.

#412 3 years ago
Quoted from Multiballmaniac1:

Why don’t people just bombard stern with calls Monday about the disappointment with topper? Call Gary.

Because they've complained and complained and complained without positive results........face it Gary Doesn't Give A Rats Ass how we feel, buy it, like it, or move on, that's Sterns business practice.

#413 3 years ago

It's not that the topper sucks in general, and getting code with the topper is nice, the problem is the price. Honestly if the topper was $300 would anyone be outraged? How is this worth more than the BK topper?

#414 3 years ago
Quoted from colonel_caverne:

Well, imho, JP is way better than Star Trek.
This 18 modes game is only a single mode game for real.

Disagree with your opinion here. The modes are more distinct and have the additional ability to change the modes with away team shot on level 1 and chose the way you want to play 3 deep or same level etc..

ST is/was the last great LE because it had more extra features like the lighted etching side armor, metal illuminated emblems on the head, real mirror back glass. Nowadays these features would be considered super LE. Nowadays the LE games are just premiums with different art packages and maybe a shaker (?) and maybe a signature for an additional $1800 (?).

#415 3 years ago
Quoted from JWP72:

$300 would anyone be outraged? How is this worth more than the BK topper?

I don't know if everyone would be happy but it would go a long way to heal the majority of hard feelings. I'm not a Stern hater hell Gary saved pinball or that's my outlook, I just want them to reciprocate some and recognize home pinball owners had a big role in keeping it afloat as well and to listen to us.

#416 3 years ago
Quoted from rai:

Disagree with your opinion here.
ST is/was the last great LE because it had more extra features like the lighted etching side armor, metal illuminated emblems on the head, real mirror back glass. Nowadays these features would be considered super LE. Nowadays the LE games are just premiums with different art packages and maybe a shaker (?) and maybe a signature for an additional $1800 (?).

You are talking about hardware, i’m talking about software.

#417 3 years ago

Funny that's the extra mode it's not like you'd really miss that. I mean it's not like something like "Destroy the Ring mode" where you would really love to get. What is this a goat that you collect a few points by hitting a lit shot(s) who really cares?

#418 3 years ago
Quoted from colonel_caverne:

You are talking about hardware, i’m talking about software.

I don't understand your first reply was to a post that said that ST was the last real LE *that post was referring to the hardware differences not about any code differences fro the ST LE and premium are the same except for the extra hardware). I explained why ST LE was exceptional.

Nowadays LE are just different art and way more than $$$$$$$.

If different art makes something an LE than maybe SW comic is like an LE only without the limited number and plaque. I really care nothing for a limited number and a plaque.

Tron was the best LE (most different) with drop targets and different mode added (Daft Punk MB) really Tron had no premium edition and is the most sought after of all Stern LE games.

ST nothing is different on the playfield or code from the premium but it was a major bump from the premium for all the added hardware and included shaker as well. I owned 2 ST LE and now own a premium. You may not like the modes but the game is great.

-1
#419 3 years ago

This Topper opened a new ERA in NIB pinball market.
The real news here is the use of DLC in pinball... This is the real innovation

#420 3 years ago

...just got 2 toppers from Cointaker for $450. The JP JEEP knock off,,,Williams Logo Topper....

#421 3 years ago
Quoted from Gorgar666:

...just got 2 toppers from Cointaker for $450. The JP JEEP knock off,,,Williams Logo Topper....

What, and miss out on the Goat mode?

Stern’s investors need another gold lining for their Olympic swimming pool. Stop being so selfish.

#422 3 years ago

Is this part of the New Cruelty?

#423 3 years ago
Quoted from guitarded:

Is this part of the New Cruelty?

Stern Army stockade. Only cruel if you’re buying.

#424 3 years ago
Quoted from underlord:

What, and miss out on the Goat mode?
Stern’s investors need another gold lining for their Olympic swimming pool. Stop being so selfish.

Seriously though of connecting the Black Knight Topper. What would happen?

#425 3 years ago
Quoted from Gorgar666:

Seriously though of connecting the Black Knight Topper. What would happen?

You ca-a-a-a-an not defea-ea-ea-ea-eat the bla-a-a--a-ack knight!

#426 3 years ago
Quoted from rai:

The topper does look pretty cool. I can't believe people say this should be $200. Sure it doesn't look like $600 but $400 would be a fair price imo.
Bonus mode looks dumb anyway, if they could sell it for less without the bonus mode I'd think that's the way to go.

It feels sometimes that pinball exists in a bubble as far as prices and value for money are concerned.

Maybe it’s because of historical mod prices, like repainted $10 plastic toys with an LED being wired in and sold for $hundreds, etc.

I watched the video, it looks alright, but what is there in materials that comes close to justifying a $400 price, much less $600? It’sa bunch of plastic and LEDs.

I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.

#427 3 years ago

Looks better lit than I expected. Still disappointed there is no animatronic aspect, but I retract the "half assed" comment I made earlier in the thread. It looks at least three quarter assed.

Drop the price to $399 to be in line with similar Stern toppers, make the goat mania thing an in game mode for anyone who wants to enable it, cuz hey, we already paid thousands for the game so just expect all the code, and I would be a buyer.

#428 3 years ago
Quoted from Durzel:

I watched the video, it looks alright, but what is there in materials that comes close to justifying a $400 price, much less $600? It’sa bunch of plastic and LEDs.

Licensing, design, coding, node boards, assembly, distributor profit, Stern profit. Lots of things go into the price of anything beyond BOM, but fully agree the $600.00 price point is BS, especially given the Black Knight topper in comparison.

#429 3 years ago

If the Beatles topper was $399 how is this one not the same. Seems to function the same .

#430 3 years ago

Why is that plastic not trimmed more closely to the outline on the Dinosaurs? Did they cut off the tail? You got to be kidding me.

#431 3 years ago
Quoted from Psw757:

If the Beatles topper was $399 how is this one not the same. Seems to function the same .

This may shock you but most places don’t set a selling price in direct accordance to what the bill of materials is or even what the “function” is.

It’s possible that someone at Stern did the math and figures that more people will pay more money for a Jurassic Park topper than they will for a Beatles topper, and set the price accordingly. It could be that the raw materials cost is exactly the same. In fact, Jurassic might even cost less to make!! The idea is to make as much money in sales as possible. This translates into more “profits.”

It may seem confusing, but when you explore the concept of “selling stuff” it’s often a complex deep dive.

There are baseball cards that have sold for over a million bucks. The BOM can’t be more than a few cents on those!

I don’t know how much wood and metal is involved in building a Gibson Les Paul, but I can assure you it isn’t $6999. And yet....that’s what some new ones sell for!

It’s crazy.

#432 3 years ago

It should be noted that machine updates didn't start with the JP Topper. The Black Knight and R2D2 performed 'topper-only-updates' too.

The JP Topper is fine. It's similar, but certainly an evolutionary step up from Keith's previous IMDN toppers. JP is Keith's best topper yet.

#433 3 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Absolutely despicable.
It’s always something. I stopped buying Sterns when they made people beg for a $15k Super LE of an unfinished prototype. Then came horrible playfields as a feature. Then making Stranger Things owners pay to “unlock” a lighting feature.
I was almost tempted by TMNT...was thinking about getting one.
NAH.
Glad I didn’t buy a TMNT. Now that $600 mode DLC is a thing, this has cemented that I will
never buy a Stern on principal. Every game is gonna have a paid unlock now. I’m Done. Forever. Lost me as a customer permanently with this one.

My feelings on Stern pretty much mirror yours exactly. Unfortunately there are too many people that will be outraged and then end up buying one anyway. If someone even mentions Stern, my default reply is "not interested." I don't care about theme, features, light shows or anything else when your quality is garbage and you are going to hold back features to try to upsell customers later.
So people can crap on stuff like Oktoberfest and Hot Wheels, but I would buy three of each before I bought a Stern.

#434 3 years ago

Deleted as pointless debate.

I think Stern should price it at $1200 because obviously people would still buy it and other people would defend them for understanding how the concept of "profit" works.

#435 3 years ago
Quoted from Waxx:

I can never tell if you are serious or just making straw man arguments for fun.
Baseball cards = rare, old, collectible.
Les Paul = Artisan made in Nashville and is a required tool for a profession.
Stern Topper = new, available, cheap, and pointless.
At least make your sarcastic and trolling posts with a valid comparison like moderrn art prints.

So you think that the pricing of a stern topper needs to be done directly in line with whatever the BOM is?

And the Gibson analogy is perfect. Their $7000 Les paul signature customs have the exact same materials as a $4500 regular Les Paul custom. Which in turn has slightly more “materials” in it than a $1999 Les Paul standard. The prices reflect what they think they can sell a particular model for, not the actual dollars and cents in every different model’s BOM.

Buy it or don’t. Prove Stern’s bean counters wrong; they have determined that $600 is the correct and most profitable price for their JP topper, which is the same way they came up with the price for their $400 beatles topper.

#436 3 years ago
Quoted from Waxx:

Deleted as pointless debate.
I think Stern should price it at $1200 because obviously people would still buy it and other people would defend them for understanding how the concept of "profit" works.

You hit the nail on the head...pointless and who gives a shit. Buy it you want to or don’t.

The amazing subplot is the anger some have in judging how people spend their hard earned money.

These will sell, time to move on.

13
#437 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

This may shock you but most places don’t set a selling price in direct accordance to what the bill of materials is or even what the “function” is.
It’s possible that someone at Stern did the math and figures that more people will pay more money for a Jurassic Park topper than they will for a Beatles topper, and set the price accordingly. It could be that the raw materials cost is exactly the same. In fact, Jurassic might even cost less to make!! The idea is to make as much money in sales as possible. This translates into more “profits.”
It may seem confusing, but when you explore the concept of “selling stuff” it’s often a complex deep dive.
There are baseball cards that have sold for over a million bucks. The BOM can’t be more than a few cents on those!
I don’t know how much wood and metal is involved in building a Gibson Les Paul, but I can assure you it isn’t $6999. And yet....that’s what some new ones sell for!
It’s crazy.

And the guitargument is born

#438 3 years ago
Quoted from ectobar:

And the guitargument is born

Only it's a poor one;

Not all wood is equal.

Not all Parts are equal.

Not all finshes are equal.

Not all luthiers are equal.

That said, Gibson couldn't sell me anything they are kicking out of their factory these days.

#439 3 years ago
Quoted from PanzerFreak:

Don't give them any ideas. "Exclusive modes for preorder buyers" or worse "Exclusive mode for Stern Insiders" lol.

Clearly they already had the idea. People have been openly asking for this to NOT happen for a few years now, don't lay that on me, heh.

#440 3 years ago
Quoted from guitarded:

Only it's a poor one;
Not all wood is equal.
Not all Parts are equal.
Not all finshes are equal.
Not all luthiers are equal.
That said, Gibson couldn't sell me anything they are kicking out of their factory these days.

I’m no expert.

But is there really any “BOM” difference between a Gibson Les Paul custom that costs $7500 and one that costs $4700?

$4700:
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LPCAWGH1E--gibson-custom-les-paul-custom-alpine-white-with-ebony-fingerboard

$7500
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LPCPSL10135--gibson-custom-les-paul-custom-modern-beauty-sweetwater-exclusive-70s-tobacco-burst

I don’t see it.

Analogy valid!!

Regardless, I’m sure we can all agree that Stern can sell whatever they want for however much they want, and are not beholden to “bom” when making these decisions.

#441 3 years ago
Quoted from darquayle:

Maybe Stern really isn’t interested in building toppers. They require extra resources to design, build, and support. But today, the market demands that a topper be released by the mfg.

Bullshit!

3rd party vendors were doing just fine supplying toppers people wanted. It was Stern that started whacking people with takedowns for making toppers for licencee games (which technically they ARE obligated to do when they licence a property), and then took it upon themselves to fill the void they created. They just decided to do it for 4x the cost and half the quality. Let's not make them out to be some kind of innocent angels here.

Adding code in with toppers is a marketing ploy to sell more horrifically overpriced plastic that is trivial for them to manufacture and ship compared to an entire pinball machine. That's it.

#442 3 years ago
Quoted from RWH:

Because they've complained and complained and complained without positive results........face it Gary Doesn't Give A Rats Ass how we feel, buy it, like it, or move on, that's Sterns business practice.

If they have ever have a viable competitor emerge like say, Chicago Gaming branching out into making their own games, that business model may come back and bite them in the ass.

10
#443 3 years ago
scam (resized).pngscam (resized).png
#444 3 years ago

I’m glad my (best topper ever) AFM was included with the game.

#445 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I’m no expert.

11
#446 3 years ago
Quoted from drfrightner:

years from now JP Pinball LE will be worth about $6800 dollars, while Wizard of Oz from JJP will still be worth $8000 range.
Stern still has a 1990 matrix backend nothing close to JJP... when does stern pull that into 2020? You keep paying 10k for a game they wont' change anything.
Time to speak with your wallets and put your passion in the backseat!
If a game is going to cost 10k (more than a JJP LE) then make your game worth a JJP LE.
PS: Where is the FULL COLOR backend matrix system like JJP if your games are worth 10k? Cmon already!

Honestly man you don't have yack a load of old codswallop. JJP's LE's are turds - if that's the bar you set then I don't know how you can moan about this topper.

Just about every single item on my Dialled In has had to be replaced, although luckily not the playfield (yet!). CPU, Graphics card, screens, trapdoor, coils and even the volume control! Come in here and have a go at the topper price for sure, but don't come in wearing a blowup turdsuit and be yacking all JJP is better and value for money.

#447 3 years ago
Quoted from ectobar:

And the guitargument is born

I'll have to check up on this...I find it hard to believe Vid didn't at least stumble into the territory

#448 3 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

This may shock you but most places don’t set a selling price in direct accordance to what the bill of materials is or even what the “function” is.
It’s possible that someone at Stern did the math and figures that more people will pay more money for a Jurassic Park topper than they will for a Beatles topper, and set the price accordingly. It could be that the raw materials cost is exactly the same. In fact, Jurassic might even cost less to make!! The idea is to make as much money in sales as possible. This translates into more “profits.”
It may seem confusing, but when you explore the concept of “selling stuff” it’s often a complex deep dive.
There are baseball cards that have sold for over a million bucks. The BOM can’t be more than a few cents on those!
I don’t know how much wood and metal is involved in building a Gibson Les Paul, but I can assure you it isn’t $6999. And yet....that’s what some new ones sell for!
It’s crazy.

You’re right in broad terms, but those things you’re talking about have a strong brand. There is value in having the best Gibson, or a highly collectible baseball card (that is an extreme example I think in terms of BOM, because baseball cards have negligible intrinsic value, it’s almost entirely in the perception of value in collectible, rarity, condition, etc terms)

Is there a strong brand value in Stern, or indeed Jurassic Park, within the scope of pinball? The topper has no value at all outside of pinball, and does not function without the pin. As a total layperson I can appreciate the craftsmanship, prestige and appeal of a top end Gibson even if I can’t play a guitar.

What I’m saying I guess is that you’re right, but it’s also specious.

#449 3 years ago

This topper is similar to my JJP Wonka topper in quality and features. Multi layered glossy thick plastic, solid metal frame, flashing LED lighting, very good build quality. The difference is mine only cost $300 shipped from JJP. What makes Stern think this worth an additional $300?

#450 3 years ago

I guess I get that people are concerned that this is going to turn into the norm for Stern (paying for DLC after the original game purchase), but I'd say start buying games based on the code that is offered at the time you buy, not what you hope it will be.

For me, this topper thing is a no-brainer (meaning a pass). If I saw that JP version X had this progressive jackpot feature, I don't know if I would even bother getting off the couch to download it. Not to mention that there isn't a whole lot to that topper.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
From: $ 70.00
Cabinet - Armor And Blades
arcade-cabinets.com
Armor and blades
From: $ 9,499.00
Pinball Machine
Paradise Distribution
Pinball Machine
$ 427.00
Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
PinWoofer
Sound/Speakers
$ 8.00
Cabinet - Other
Pinball Fuzz
Other
$ 6,999.00
Pinball Machine
Classic Game Rooms
Pinball Machine
$ 649.95
Lighting - Led
Pin Stadium Pinball Mods
Led
$ 10.00
Playfield - Decals
Pinball Haus
Decals
$ 29.95
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
ULEKstore
Toys/Add-ons
$ 15.00
Playfield - Protection
SilverBall Designs
Protection
$ 45.00
Cabinet - Decals
Inscribed Solutions
Decals
$ 289.99
Cabinet - Armor And Blades
Maine Home Recreation
Armor and blades
$ 10.00
Cabinet - Other
NO GOUGE PINBALL™
Other
From: $ 20.00
Cabinet - Other
Filament Printing
Other
$ 12.00
Tools
Nezzy's Pinball Prints
Tools
From: $ 6.00
From: $ 15.00
Cabinet - Other
Rocket City Pinball
Other
$ 76.00
Lighting - Backbox
Arcade Upkeep
Backbox
From: $ 8.00
Cabinet - Other
NO GOUGE PINBALL™
Other
6,999
Machine - For Sale
Columbia, SC
$ 70.00
Playfield - Other
Pin Monk
Other
$ 8.95
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
ULEKstore
Toys/Add-ons
$ 49.95
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Hookedonpinball.com
Toys/Add-ons
$ 16.00
$ 1.49
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Daddio's 3D Printed Mods
Toys/Add-ons
$ 49.99
Cabinet - Toppers
Lighted Pinball Mods
Toppers
$ 5.00
Playfield - Protection
UpKick Pinball
Protection
From: $ 5.00
Cabinet - Other
Pin Monk
Other
6,599
Machine - For Sale
San Diego, CA
Hey modders!
Your shop name here
There are 936 posts in this topic. You are on page 9 of 19.

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/topper-dlc-stern-s-new-low/page/9?hl=durzel and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.