Jurassic Park (Limited Edition)
Stern, 2019
Jurassic Park (Premium)
Stern, 2019
Jurassic Park (Pro)
Stern, 2019Quoted from CrazyLevi:This is true for every mod ever, with the possible exception of a color DMD.
To buy a mod is to throw money away.
Not quite true. There are some mods (POTC Endeavor, WOZ flying monkey) that are limited and that can drive the price up. People were offering 500-$800 for the Endeavor mod that cost $300 just one week prior. It was a limited run.
Quoted from Edenecho:Weeeeeell to be fair, Stern games will include what stern think they should
♫♪♪ To be fair ♫♪♪
The main thing that irks me, and I'm guessing many others, is that this code/feature wasn't in any of the feature matrixes at time of release.
It was added after people had made the full purchase, based on what was advertised, but then released at a later date for $600
I have no problem with Madness on IMDn Prem, nor additional mb on Tron LE, as these were clearly advertised as being one of the perks for ordering an LE, completely different argument.
It's the way this is released months after the fact that is seen as underhand.
I don't even believe that it can be likened to DLC for computer games. These games are generally extremely high volume so adding an option to buy a different coloured skin, or upgrade weapons earlier, or even an additional level to play means that the developer can get away with only charging a couple of quid because of the high volumes likely to be sold.
Releasing a limited number of toppers with this code at such a high price makes it abhorrent.
Quoted from flynnibus:How about custom roms? Soundtracks? Pinsound.. which is a combination of both?
"Code is not an accessory" Sure, in some dinosaur minds... prevalent on pinside.
Everywhere else in the world, including on those computers or phones nearly everyone of you is using is a software defined feature or option.
The idea that an add-on is only defined as hardware, and can't be software is just people clinging to some old construct.
"Code" as in maintanence of what I already purchased... that's been free in Pinball. It's not even free in many industries... "Code" that is value add above what you originally purchased (like... different features or modes) has been sold as value-added options for decades.
Get over it.
Wrong again.
All of those examples do nothing to ADD to the core gameplay. That’s custom music and other non gameplay elements.
When you add modes to code that’s gameplay and now we’re talking about something significant. You have to know the difference although maybe I’m giving you too much credit.
Now you can be like the other stern army zombies and take it - that’s your call although it hurts the rest of it. But don’t tell me adding a mode to the code is the same as changing a music track. That’s asinine.
Value is in the eye of the beholder. Stern is simply exploring additional revenue streams as are most companies in capitalist economies. I for one want them to be successful. They make fun games. I enjoy fun games. I want to watch them continue to make fun games for years to come. I hope to see the other companies building games to keep making fun games to enjoy. They know their market far better than the hobbyist community. They have thrived since moving full stop to the tiered model for their machines. That was a lamented change in the hobbyist community as well.
Quoted from WJxxxx:The main thing that irks me, and I'm guessing many others, is that this code/feature wasn't in any of the feature matrixes at time of release.
It was added after people had made the full purchase, based on what was advertised, but then released at a later date for $600
Agreed. Part of the problem for me is that the games ship code incomplete to varying degrees. The community has largely come to accept it and purchase the games before they are fully baked with trust that Stern will timely complete the code, which is often the case. But in this case they kept something back, behind a paywall and there wasn't any disclosure that the purchase of options were necessary to unlock parts of the game. Same thing applies for Stranger Things UV kit, it was without precedent that the game wasn't shipped with the lights were needed to unlock all of the features of the game.
Stern's feature matrix typically denotes what you get, and by omission what you do not. For example, if the game has a real mirrored backglass, it's on the matrix but if not then you know it has a translite. Games that include shaker motors, special decals, signatures, special shooter rods, and pieces of old furniture are all on feature the feature matrix. If you don't see those, the you used to be able to figure that your game doesn't come with those add-on's but will otherwise have all of the code and lights.
I'm not saying that there's anything inherently wrong with treating all of these things as options, but they should be disclosed and available from the beginning. It still wouldn't reconcile the high price point of NIB premiums and LE that are missing many options, but at least people would know when they make their decision.
Quoted from delt31:All of those examples do nothing to ADD to the core gameplay.
From my understanding, this “mode” does nothing to add to the core gameplay of JP.
It’s a separate play thing, not part of the actual gameplay, so I would say the core gameplay remains the same with this “mod”.
Sure, this can be considered a dick move by Stern. What’s uglier to me is the way people on here try to belittle, shame, insult, and degrade anyone that wants to buy it.
That’s the real dick move.
Quoted from DNO:From my understanding, this “mode” does nothing to add to the core gameplay of JP.
It’s a separate play thing, not part of the actual gameplay, so I would say the core gameplay remains the same with this “mod”.
Sure, this can be considered a dick move by Stern. What’s uglier to me is the way people on here try to belittle, shame, insult, and degrade anyone that wants to buy it.
That’s the real dick move.
Is shaming and belittling the belittlers much better?
Some people are obnoxious on either side of this discussion. Coming into this thread brimming with pride or some desire to show off what you just dropped 600 bucks on is perplexing at best.
Quoted from delt31:Wrong again.
All of those examples do nothing to ADD to the core gameplay
And Goat Frenzy is 'core gameplay' more than things like soundtracks, integrated lighting, toys, etc? Whatever....
Let's go back to GoTG and compare the game when it had like 2 songs.. compared to what they finished with.. and reevaluate what you consider to be part of 'core gameplay'
The fundamental issue in this back and forth is the idea that some people consider '100%' of a game to mean "I have everything that was offered" - and if I don't have that... I've been penalized. And that in isolation is just not how the world works. If you don't buy all the options - you aren't entitled to all the possibilities out there. You got 100% of what you bought. Not 100% of everything possible.
"100% code" is a construct dreamt up here by people trying to articulate their view. And it's a fundamentally flawed one that doesn't work the way they are trying to use it.
Tron Pro is 100% of Tron Pro. Tron LE has more than Tron Pro - that doesn't make Tron Pro somehow only a 90% game.
If Stern releases a vault edition of a game that magically has MORE than the original game... the original game doesn't become less of a game. It's just less compared to another.
I really hate to see Stern just make the same mistakes the gaming industry made. I get they need to expand revenue and DLC is a great way to do that but they are in no position to sell additional software. This is not DLC, this weird having to buy the topper to get a very shallow mode, it's just really bad planning. Stern has to sort out their software issues and release completed games. Trying to sell software when games come out the door no where near complete is just going to be a disaster. Another golden rule is never splinter you community, everyone should be able to purchase your product. Also you need to make people want to buy what your selling. If your going to launch a mode, you need a damn trailer and the mode has to be something people will get excited about. You also need people to be able to buy your upgrades right on the device. So many of these lessons have been learned and them just disregarding that is going to be really bad for business.
Quoted from WJxxxx:The main thing that irks me, and I'm guessing many others, is that this code/feature wasn't in any of the feature matrixes at time of release.
It was added after people had made the full purchase, based on what was advertised, but then released at a later date for $600
So what.. everyone has the same opportunity to buy it and add it to their game. Past decisions on which model to buy are not changed by the availability of this accessory.
This is the same argument people tried to make about the UV kit. But it doesn't hold water. The add-on is available for all models. This argument would only work if the kit was limited to some models and people were excluded because of the choice they made without knowing the consequence.
The thought process of which model is best for you is not changed by the availability of this add-on.
Quoted from Eskaybee:I knew my post would get some downvotes from the over-sensitive. But, my point is that no matter how you want to skin this cat, your game will not have 100% of the code unless you pay extra for it. I’m not saying that’s a good thing or bad thing; the game kicks ass without the mode. But, you still won’t have 100% of the code unless you got the coin to pony up.
You keep using that word... I do not think it means what you think it means.
It's not "code" - Every game has the code. It's "features" you lack unless you bought them.
Quoted from Eskaybee:So for people like thelaw and flynnibus - would you think IMDN pro is 100% or not? I say it is, because I dont get the option to pay $600 to add the madness mode to my game
I say the pro is 100% because it includes everything they said it would when they sold it to you. Your condition of "not having an option" for "Can I play with madness" influencing your interpretation is the problem with your mindset. Your decision (or even availability) of option doesn't make the game less than what you were sold.
Do people not remember the TOPS system? Do you consider all your 200x era games "incomplete code" because you didn't add in the Tournament Button and Header, and enable the tournament mode?
Will Stern continue to add add-ons to games AFTER they launch? I'm sure they will and that's not a bad thing... especially if they are items available to all models.
1) Trying to have everything ready (including non-essential add-ons) will only risk delaying games more... and ultimately result in a reduction of offerings
2) It's good marketing for Stern to roll out new add-ons to existing products to refresh interest in the product. Longer sales availability of games in the channel is GOOD for customers
3) More accessories in the market will open up opportunities for 3rd parties as well
People can be bothered Stern is monetizing features vs giving them away just fine... but you don't get to redefine reality to justify your belief.
Quoted from flynnibus:So what.. everyone has the same opportunity to buy it and add it to their game.
Do they?
Capture (resized).JPGQuoted from flynnibus:You keep using that word... I do not think it means what you think it means.
It's not "code" - Every game has the code. It's "features" you lack unless you bought them.I say the pro is 100% because it includes everything they said it would when they sold it to you. Your condition of "not having an option" for "Can I play with madness" influencing your interpretation is the problem with your mindset. Your decision (or even availability) of option doesn't make the game less than what you were sold.
Do people not remember the TOPS system? Do you consider all your 200x era games "incomplete code" because you didn't add in the Tournament Button and Header, and enable the tournament mode?
Will Stern continue to add add-ons to games AFTER they launch? I'm sure they will and that's not a bad thing... especially if they are items available to all models.
1) Trying to have everything ready (including non-essential add-ons) will only risk delaying games more... and ultimately result in a reduction of offerings
2) It's good marketing for Stern to roll out new add-ons to existing products to refresh interest in the product. Longer sales availability of games in the channel is GOOD for customers
3) More accessories in the market will open up opportunities for 3rd parties as well
People can be bothered Stern is monetizing features vs giving them away just fine... but you don't get to redefine reality to justify your belief.
I think you need to go reread my post. I consider IMDN PRO complete. If I had options to add modes for $$$ then no, the code wouldn’t be 100% unless I pay for it, just like JP. Anyway, not a big deal to me; your counter arguments of accessories, cars and such to justify that an extra mode in a game isn’t code is kind of funny though. Carry on.
Stern is fragmenting its product to squeeze pennies. No surprise there. I just hate the bullshit. It feels like a negotiation. I prefer to deal with people who are firm and clear. Let's save time and skip the bullshit.
Now we have to consider who coded the games for a general forecast of completion. We have to discover the newest cost cut and wonder if Stern will stand behind their product. To make matters worse, we have no idea of added costs that should have been included at purchase. Raise the price and include a topper. FFS, fish tales came with a mechanical fish!
Make downgrading an option for routers. Psychologically, it is much smarter marketing.
Quoted from Darscot:I really hate to see Stern just make the same mistakes the gaming industry made. I get they need to expand revenue and DLC is a great way to do that but they are in no position to sell additional software. This is not DLC, this weird having to buy the topper to get a very shallow mode, it's just really bad planning. Stern has to sort out their software issues and release completed games. Trying to sell software when games come out the door no where near complete is just going to be a disaster. Another golden rule is never splinter you community, everyone should be able to purchase your product. Also you need to make people want to buy what your selling. If your going to launch a mode, you need a damn trailer and the mode has to be something people will get excited about. You also need people to be able to buy your upgrades right on the device. So many of these lessons have been learned and them just disregarding that is going to be really bad for business.
Dear lord.
It's not DLC. It's not some paradigm shift that warrants a pearl-clutching thread like this.
It's a TOPPER. Why is this getting bungled and confused by the clueless masses?
You are buying a topper. The cheesy mode nobody likes and nobody wants is just a "value add" that was probably some cutting room floor nonsense that didn't make it into the game.
Stop pretending it's DLC. It's not. It's like when people pay up for a "KISS Silver VIP" concert package. It's $500 for a front floor seat. That's what you are paying for. The other garbage (exclusive VIP gift! (key chain), Special VIP KISS Lanyard! Crowd Free shopping opportunity! Exclusive VIP Tote Bag!) is all useless crap that's not worth anything and you don't really want any of it, it's just there to help you rationalize your purchases of a $500 KISS concert ticket.
Just like this.
Not DLC. A topper. If you think it's worth $600 and you want it, buy it. Ain't nobody dumb enough (i hope) to think they are paying for Goat Mania.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Why is this getting bungled and confused by the clueless masses?
Let's vote.
A: This could be the thin end of the wedge.
B: It's fun to rile you up.
C: Both!
Quoted from Tranquilize:Make downgrading an option for routers. Psychologically, it is much smarter marketing.
No it's not. Why market to cheapskates? Pinball is where it is today because people with extra money like to "upgrade."
Vegas figured that out decades ago. The cheapskates can go to Reno.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:You are buying a topper. The cheesy mode nobody likes and nobody wants is just a "value add" that was probably some cutting room floor nonsense that didn't make it into the game
I'm sure Keith and all buyers of this topper appreciate your taking the time to speak for them LOL
Stern is selling an additional mode to an existing game. That is paid-for DLC. You can deny it all you want; you're only fooling yourself. In THIS particular instance, the DLC doesn't appear to be worth the money, but what about the next game?
Stern should make a dedicated run of past & present toppers. Let’s see them announce availability of the following toppers:
BM66SLE
TWD
KISS
GB
BKSoR
JP2
People want them, yet there is no supply and they are almost unobtainium. Forget about making the next vault and try building some more damn toppers instead. Now, back to complaining nobody wants a JP2 topper.
Quoted from DNO:From my understanding, this “mode” does nothing to add to the core gameplay of JP.
It’s a separate play thing, not part of the actual gameplay, so I would say the core gameplay remains the same with this “mod”.
Sure, this can be considered a dick move by Stern. What’s uglier to me is the way people on here try to belittle, shame, insult, and degrade anyone that wants to buy it.
That’s the real dick move.
A mode is a mode. Regardless of how shitty it is (and yes the mode sucks just as much as the topper for 600) a mode qualifies as gameplay and that’s not an opinion but fact.
What some folks need to remember is that yes this topper sucks, the mode sucks, the people pumping this to sell it (buy buy buy) suck, the stern army who is loyal and say it’s just a topper only and not DLC suck (b/c they’re greased by stern and they know it) BUT if there is one thing stern does it’s refine to make the most money possible and they will eventually release a DLC mode that actually is good and folks will say wtf. Well guess what - this is the beginning of it. It’s poison to this industry and I’ll make sure to be on the record, like the 100+ people who did the same. Peace.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:It's like when people pay up for a "KISS Silver VIP" concert package. It's $500 for a front floor seat.
I believe the Gold Packages we’re front row and more like $1000. Silver is always a few rows back. But man those prices kept going up for every tour! But I digress and can relate to your example. I was one of those buyers.
Quoted from CrazyLevi:The other garbage (exclusive VIP gift! (key chain), Special VIP KISS Lanyard! Crowd Free shopping opportunity! Exclusive VIP Tote Bag!) is all useless crap that's not worth anything and you don't really want any of it, it's just there to help you rationalize your purchases of a $500 KISS concert ticket.
Yeah, that DLC really is a bunch of garbage. Why couldn’t they just include a real tour t-shirt so you didn’t have to worry about the crowd free shopping!
Quoted from metallik:I'm sure Keith and all buyers of this topper appreciate your taking the time to speak for them LOL
Stern is selling an additional mode to an existing game. That is paid-for DLC. You can deny it all you want; you're only fooling yourself. In THIS particular instance, the DLC doesn't appear to be worth the money, but what about the next game?
It's not DLC till you can buy it standalone.
That's the criteria I just made up.
Quoted from delt31:It’s poison to this industry and I’ll make sure to be on the record, like the 100+ people who did the same. Peace.
Man I've never seen someone so proud of his 100 upvotes.
It ain't that hard! You are shooting fish in a barrel with your Stern pearl-clutching bro!
Quoted from CrazyLevi:Dear lord.
It's not DLC. It's not some paradigm shift that warrants a pearl-clutching thread like this.
It's a TOPPER. Why is this getting bungled and confused by the clueless masses?
You are buying a topper. The cheesy mode nobody likes and nobody wants is just a "value add" that was probably some cutting room floor nonsense that didn't make it into the game.
Stop pretending it's DLC. It's not. It's like when people pay up for a "KISS Silver VIP" concert package. It's $500 for a front floor seat. That's what you are paying for. The other garbage (exclusive VIP gift! (key chain), Special VIP KISS Lanyard! Crowd Free shopping opportunity! Exclusive VIP Tote Bag!) is all useless crap that's not worth anything and you don't really want any of it, it's just there to help you rationalize your purchases of a $500 KISS concert ticket.
Just like this.
Not DLC. A topper. If you think it's worth $600 and you want it, buy it. Ain't nobody dumb enough (i hope) to think they are paying for Goat Mania.
That was a hell of rant maybe you should have bothered to read what I wrote, LOL
Quoted from Darscot:This is not DLC, this weird having to buy the topper to get a very shallow mode
Quoted from Darscot:That was a hell of rant maybe you should have bothered to read what I wrote, LOL
Fine I'll read past the first couple sentences next time. People are so touchy when it comes to DLC!
(and yes thanks for the rant opportunity!)
Quoted from jeffspinballpalace:Stern should make a dedicated run of past & present toppers. Let’s see them announce availability of the following toppers:
BM66SLE
TWD
KISS
GB
BKSoR
JP2
People want them, yet there is no supply and they are almost unobtainium. Forget about making the next vault and try building some more damn toppers instead. Now, back to complaining nobody wants a JP2 topper.
The Batman LE/SLE topper came with the game and were exclusive to those models. They were never sold separately.
Quoted from TKDalumni:Is it weird to feel like I'm not missing out on the topper or the mode?
Yes. It’s only $600. Do it!
Quoted from Rarehero:Absolutely despicable.
It’s always something. I stopped buying Sterns when they made people beg for a $15k Super LE of an unfinished prototype. Then came horrible playfields as a feature. Then making Stranger Things owners pay to “unlock” a lighting feature.
I was almost tempted by TMNT...was thinking about getting one.
NAH.
Glad I didn’t buy a TMNT. Now that $600 mode DLC is a thing, this has cemented that I will
never buy a Stern on principal. Every game is gonna have a paid unlock now. I’m Done. Forever. Lost me as a customer permanently with this one.
I would like to counter your post and here’s why.
I got a massive home, luxury autos (his n hers c8’s just for Sunday’s), pebble tec pool, cobble stone driveway all behind a big black electric gate...hey I’m a baller...just like kid sensation, I can drop $600 and not even miss it
Go Stern!!!
Quoted from Eskaybee:I think you need to go reread my post. I consider IMDN PRO complete. If I had options to add modes for $$$ then no, the code wouldn’t be 100% unless I pay for it, just like JP
So every TOPS compatible game is not '100% complete'?
Man.. all these years and no one knew...
Quoted from flynnibus:So every TOPS compatible game is not '100% complete'?
Man.. all these years and no one knew...
Why do you keep trying to redirect the subject?
Is this a mode? Yes. Do you have to pay to unlock it? Yes. Simple math.
Quoted from Gorgar666:Which is better...
[quoted image][quoted image]
In those pics, I'd say the top looks really good. But I think that the JP Topper from Tilt looks the best of any of them when you actually see it. Of course, I think it's been out of stock for a while now. Sadly.
Quoted from DakotaMike:In those pics, I'd say the top looks really good. But I think that the JP Topper from Tilt looks the best of any of them when you actually see it. Of course, I think it's been out of stock for a while now. Sadly.
True dat. Unfortunately, the graphic Gorgar supplied (although it came from the Tilttopper website) really doesn't come close to conveying how great that topper is. You can keep your damn goats (I've already got "more goats" selected in the game, so I'm good)...I agree the Tilttopper is the best one.
Quoted from Gorgar666:Which is better...
[quoted image][quoted image]
If we're comparing the two at a low price point i'd say the second one. The Stern looks much better than both of those IMO.
Quoted from calprog:The best topper for JP hands down!!!
[quoted image][quoted image]
I agree...but what happened to the letters at the end of "Jurassic" on your sign? 
I went with the green trim to match the LE...you can't really appreciate it until you see the video with the flickering lights and slow pulsing light behind the dinosaur...
Quoted from calprog:He letter moved and i though it looked cool. Lol
He modded his topper. It's all the rage!
Stern had a chance to do DLC right with the JP topper but blew it. JP has been out for 6+ months and has very deep / polished code. I think customers can already see a lot of value with the existing code and that nothing was held back to sell later as an add on.
Imagine if Stern marketed this topper as an expansion for the game alongside a video trailer with 5 new objective based modes that each contain unique assets (music, sounds, animations, etc). Now that’s how to provide value to your customers and market a $600 topper. That type of approach could have created a lot of sales. However, Stern did the opposite and instead created a single mode that is in my opinion so minimally coded and mindless that they should be embarrassed.
Quoted from MikeS:They are walking on thin ice for sure.
Stern was on thin Ice for me back shortly after releasing Spike2... The ice gave way with the first Cabinet/Playfield quality issues they saw shortly after that. I haven't been more than briefly interested in any title since. I don't see that changing anytime in the near or mid-term future. IMHO; they lost touch with me as a customer with their ever increasingly "F-the-customer" attitude, rising prices, cost cutting moves. This is just another example.
There is going to need to be a radical "back to basics" / "customer obsession" mindset/management change at Stern before they will get another dollar from me. IMHO, Gary and Gomez aren't it and likely never will be.
Quoted from flynnibus:And Goat Frenzy is 'core gameplay' more than things like soundtracks, integrated lighting, toys, etc? Whatever....
Let's go back to GoTG and compare the game when it had like 2 songs.. compared to what they finished with.. and reevaluate what you consider to be part of 'core gameplay'
The fundamental issue in this back and forth is the idea that some people consider '100%' of a game to mean "I have everything that was offered" - and if I don't have that... I've been penalized. And that in isolation is just not how the world works. If you don't buy all the options - you aren't entitled to all the possibilities out there. You got 100% of what you bought. Not 100% of everything possible.
"100% code" is a construct dreamt up here by people trying to articulate their view. And it's a fundamentally flawed one that doesn't work the way they are trying to use it.
Tron Pro is 100% of Tron Pro. Tron LE has more than Tron Pro - that doesn't make Tron Pro somehow only a 90% game.
If Stern releases a vault edition of a game that magically has MORE than the original game... the original game doesn't become less of a game. It's just less compared to another.
Stern loves you!!
Quoted from DakotaMike:In those pics, I'd say the top looks really good. But I think that the JP Topper from Tilt looks the best of any of them when you actually see it. Of course, I think it's been out of stock for a while now. Sadly.
So I hear if you email them before the end of this month....
Quoted from beelzeboob:True dat. Unfortunately, the graphic Gorgar supplied (although it came from the Tilttopper website) really doesn't come close to conveying how great that topper is. You can keep your damn goats (I've already got "more goats" selected in the game, so I'm good)...I agree the Tilttopper is the best one.
Badass, got one coming...actually got both....one I will sale...
Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.
Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!
This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/topper-dlc-stern-s-new-low/page/16?hl=rasavage and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.
Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.
Pittsburgh, PA
Chilliwack, BC
