Pembroke Pines, FL
Quoted from Bok013:I just saw the underrated thread so I thought how about over?
My number 1 AFM. I know let the hate begin.
Probably because you did so crappy when you played mine. 
(Topic ID: 91740)
Quoted from Britt-in-VA:Can we get a universal opinion/definition on what "overrated" means?
I mean, if a game still holds a high percentage of appeal among collectors and players, and the demand/price is there, how exactly can it be overrated?
If a game sucks, the demand and price pretty much reflects it, with a few exceptions that hard core collectors may value for whatever reason like small production, etc... Doesn't it?
I thought about that also, so probably "a pin that has a higher opinion than deserved" maybe?
Overrated, should have nothing to do with price because that would fall into the "overvalued, overpriced" category. Overrated Should have nothing to do with scarcity either.
BUT- Price and scarcity do have something to do with our evaluations of games being overrated or not though. For example - if there were 25,000 pins produced of AFM or SS and they were $2,500 each today, no one would say they are overrated because they are fun, reasonably priced and attainable. We would each have one or both in our game room and all appreciate the theme, play and value of them. No?
So if you think AFM is overrated at $8000, would you think it was overrated at say $2500?
One post does it all for me. Did not include any machines I have not spent at least 15-20 plays on:
TOP OVERRATED PINS:
1. Twilight Zone
2. Indiana Jones
3. Tales Of The Arabian Nights
4. The Getaway
5. Pirates Of The Caribbean
6. Terminator 2
7. Banzai Run
8. Xenon
9. Haunted House
10. WHO Dunnit?
TOP UNDERRATED PINS:
1. Bram Stoker's Dracula
2. Scared Stiff
3. World Cup Soccer '94
4. Diner
5. Pinbot
6. Johnny Mnemonic
7. Cyclone
8. Demolition Man
9. Jackbot
10. Last Action Hero
Most Underrated
The Shadow in 2011 when it was like $1500
Most Overrated
The Shadow in 2014 where it now seems to be around $3000
Don't trust me though. I'm probably just bitter because I gave up my search when the price kept creeping up.
Quoted from davewtf:Change your thread title to "what games does everyone else like that you don't". I think the ratings are pretty indicative of what is fun. If one where to throw names of the top 25 five games in one hat and 26-50 in another, I'm pretty sure we'd all be grabbing from the former and not the latter. For the sake of argument, all games have the same value (you can't sell).
Sorry if this is gibberish, no coffee yet me have.
I think the ratings are a little bit flawed, personally. Like, the first question is 'How good is the flow on the game?'
I love TZ, but a flowy game it is not. If the ratings were reset, I have a feeling it would drop waaaaay down the list based on that question alone. Similarly, Star Trek is super flowy, so I had to give it points on that, but I think it's actually so focused on flow that it loses a lot of personality (hit these five ramps for every mode; it flows!). I have to give it max points for flow, but I would really like to dock it for that instead.
Quoted from alichino:I think the ratings are a little bit flawed, personally. Like, the first question is 'How good is the flow on the game?'
I love TZ, but a flowy game it is not. If the ratings were reset, I have a feeling it would drop waaaaay down the list based on that question alone. Similarly, Star Trek is super flowy, so I had to give it points on that, but I think it's actually so focused on flow that it loses a lot of personality (hit these five ramps for every mode; it flows!). I have to give it max points for flow, but I would really like to dock it for that instead.
But isn't flow vs. stop and start subjective? I agree TZ has no flow. STTNG has great flow. But both are or were in the top ten, and have been for a long time.
People have been ranking/rating TZ for 20 plus years. It's not like it's some surprise that it isn't a very flowy game.
Quoted from alichino:I think the ratings are a little bit flawed, personally. Like, the first question is 'How good is the flow on the game?'
I love TZ, but a flowy game it is not. If the ratings were reset, I have a feeling it would drop waaaaay down the list based on that question alone. Similarly, Star Trek is super flowy, so I had to give it points on that, but I think it's actually so focused on flow that it loses a lot of personality (hit these five ramps for every mode; it flows!). I have to give it max points for flow, but I would really like to dock it for that instead.
And how is WOZs flow?
Personally, I think flow is subjective. How does it flow in coralation to the layout? Do the shots feel good and setup a follow up shot or do you have to post pass constantly to get the ball where you want it?
A stop and go game like TZ can still have good flow, and does.
Rated implies Ranking
So you believe a game should be ranked far lower than it is ranked, in your opinion.
Munich
Quoted from Eskaybee:And how is WOZs flow?
Personally, I think flow is subjective. How does it flow in coralation to the layout? Do the shots feel good and setup a follow up shot or do you have to post pass constantly to get the ball where you want it?
A stop and go game like TZ can still have good flow, and does.
I agree with the shots feeling good and being setup well. I did dock WoZ for that, but it sets things up much better than most people realize. A good example is when you miss getting the munchkin mode started, you can hold the top flipper which will drop the ball to the left flipper; catch it there, and it's right back to the playfield. Also, shooting for the drops isn't very important with the 3.0 update. Getting rainbow lit just sort of happens now.
I also dropped the layout feature as being as important as some of the other things. Like, a good layout can be killed by bad rules (ref: CSI), and an okay layout can be a great game with some good rules (ref: Family Guy). The layout itself isn't as important to me as how it's used.
ST is better in the 'flow' department, so I gave it a higher ranking there than WoZ. I enjoy the rules on WoZ so much more than ST, though; hence the higher rating. Similarly, Tron and X-Men have basically the same layout, but I love the rules on X-Men so much more, so it got the better rating.
AFM. Just kept on shooting up the middle.
-----
You need to complete the modes to get any real points. There are 6 rounds inserts toward the bottom of the screen. None of them require hitting the middle. Also unless you've taken away the tilt bob and and playfield pitch, that middle shot can be dangerous.
Quoted from SkeebWilcox:One post does it all for me. Did not include any machines I have not spent at least 15-20 plays on:
TOP OVERRATED PINS:
1. Twilight Zone
2. Indiana Jones
3. Tales of the Arabian Nights
4. The Getaway
5. Pirates of the Caribbean
6. Terminator 2
7. Banzai Run
8. Xenon
9. Haunted House
10. WHO dunnit?
TOP UNDERRATED PINS:
1. Bram Stoker's Dracula
2. Scared Stiff
3. World Cup Soccer '94
4. Diner
5. Pinbot
6. Johnny Mnemonic
7. Cyclone
8. Demolition Man
9. Jackbot
10. Last Action Hero
While I don't agree with everything noted here, I like the format, so I'm goin' with my list and why. I'm going down the list from #1 until I get to the 10th overly rated game.
1) Medieval Madness. Shoot the castle, survive, shoot the castle survive, shoot the castle, survive, you get the idea. After about 40-50 shots, you have defeated the King of Payne and won the tournament. All that awesomeness reduced to a 1 shot game. Truly saddening... CALLING MYSTERY PROGRAMMER!
2) Indiana Jones (WMS). Shoot the center lock, start multiball. Shoot the center lock, start multiball, shoot the center lock and buggy software that make a billion points go away right quick.
3) Theater of Magic. Shoot the left orbit, lap around the PF, shoot the left orbit, lap around the PF, (starting to see a pattern here?!?). Talk to Lyman and discuss pinball rules.
4) Tales of Arabian Nights. Look at the pretty game, exploit numerous rules that negate any real earned points on the table. A great game for the girlfriend and museum piece/mod collectors.
5) Circus Voltaire. Another game that needs serious s/w revision. Eternal wizard mode takes all the fun out of being rewarded for playing well. This one was a tough one for me as I REALLY like the game, until that point. Then... ugh.
6) Metallica. This is a good game, not a great game. Shoot Sparky, survive, Shoot Sparky, survive, Shoot Sparky, survive, Shoot Sparky, survive, Shoot Sparky, survive, Shoot Sparky, survive, Shoot Sparky, survive, Shoot Sparky, survive, Shoot Sparky, survive, Shoot Sparky, survive, Shoot Sparky, survive, Shoot Sparky, survive, Shoot Sparky, survive, try and get a stack in there somewhere. I still have hope for the S/W revision, but 'Tallikuh Fanboys need to watch Some kind of monster and remember that half these guys are whiny little bitches who grew into everything they ever rebelled against as kids and are too stupid to see the irony looking back at them in the mirror.
7) Wizard of Oz. Potential is the word for this deck. New tech and a brilliant ruleset cannot save the awkward PF and new boards that need to be put into this game for it to work as it should. Like Metallica, I'll give this more time, but right now, it is severely overrated. Find a working one if you can and enjoy the theater this game has. I'd still rather have a game that has game within it.
8)Elvira and the Party Monsters. Left Ramp to the right flipper feed, Left Ramp to the right flipper feed, Left Ramp to the right flipper feed, Left Ramp to the right flipper feed, I think you get the idea. I love the character and artwork on this game, but Mystery Programmer needs to step in on this deck.
9) Judge Dredd. This one is particularly painful for me as I absolutely loved the comics as a kid and this deck embodies the feel of the comics and has all the dark judges in it, but this game just doesn't put it together with gameplay. Feel the pain!
10) Champion Pub. I'd rather skip a real rope.
Top SS Runners up:
Guns and Roses. I like Slash. The game suffers from so much wonderful input and ideas and not enough game/rule testing. Standard issue procedure at DE. Select super pops and keep putting it in there until you 9 it out. What a shame.
Bk2k. Play this game with your right hand.
Bride of Pinbot. Enjoy the theater, this game is a 1 shot game that will insta-boot when the second player gets the Bil club. Johnny Mnemonic. Gitcher spinner mod on. Or else.
Top 10 underrated games:
1) TZ. at #2. This game should be at #1, by a looooooooooooooooooooong mile. There is no comparison. Disagree if you must, but you are welcome to stop by Casa Del 2 Step and bear witness to what the real deal is.
2) The Shadow. A true players game if there ever was one.
3) Bram Stoker's Dracula. Another true player that is being grabbed up by those who know. Utterly brutal and relentless.
4) Congo. Not your average layout and ruleset, but DAY-UM... what a great game! Tron owes it's entire left hand PF design to John Trudeau and this deck. Best skill shot in a DMD that I can think of.
5) Roadshow. This deck oozes character and while I will admit that it is not the best balanced game out there, this deck is a much better player than people give it credit for. The only thing in my home that plays cuntry music.
6) Indianapolis 500. A table that stays true to its theme. You don't stop, ever. Even when you get the big whammy score, this deck keeps on racing at lighting speed!
7) Tales from the Crypt. A true player that would have made DE as good as B/W if they had this kind of product with more of their releases. I'd love to have one some day.
8) Corvette. A really good game. From what I understand this was supposed to be a wide body and GG squeezed this table into a narrower body. It made the shots tighter and this game requires quite a bit of skill to get it to sing.
9) Starship Troopers. A much better game than people give it credit for. The flipper layout deserves particular attention on this table.
10) World Cup Soccer '94. This game has been in at least one bank (almost) every year at PAPA since it has been released. People say this game is too easy or boring... it can be. Do some work and modify/adjust/tune this deck to a challenging level and quitcher' bitchin'!
Special note goes to World Poker Tour. If you don't "get it", I understand. It took me a long time to do so. But I gave it a real chance and once you do too... Ohhh, the pinball pleasure!
Also, Goldeneye... when properly maintained and tuned, is a great game and a much better player than most people know. I know I didn't know until the past year.
EM Overrated top games. Now while EM's are a different animal and encompass a wider range of vintages and technological advances, I consider them to be as much of a player's game as SS/DMD's. While player skill sets may be different, they are all valid. However, there are a few notable exceptions to the general rating system:
1) Centigrade 37. A fantastic looking game that falls way short in the gameplay dept. This is a damn shame, because all the goods are on the PF. The rules on this game just aren't that challenging.
2) Joker Poker / Eye of the Tiger and many games on the EM/SS dual production cliff. When SS games have better rulesets than their EM counter parts, museum collector/ low production enthusiasts may rejoice. I do not.
3) Multiplayer EM's with less robust rules than their single player counterparts. El Dorado/ Gold Strike's offspring make for a much less challenging game. I understand the the op with games on the street wants multiplayer games, and I do enjoy them. I just enjoy the single player games much, much, much more.
Alright, there goes my lunch break. Now I'm off to work on the pin-fu!
Quoted from trickpony:There are 6 rounds inserts toward the bottom of the screen. None of them require hitting the middle.
One of those is "conquer mars" and the only way to do that is to destroy 6 saucers.
Quoted from Blackbeard:AFM. Just kept on shooting up the middle.
You're doing it wrong.
Quoted from RobT:You're doing it wrong.
ok ok.. Next time I see one I'll give it some more play. Only have a few hours on it.
Quoted from Dbaum88:AFM by a wide margin. No flow, just dont get it.
laughing-my-ass-off-smiley-emoticon.gifQuoted from Blackbeard:ok ok.. Next time I see one I'll give it some more play. Only have a few hours on it.
If you get the chance, look at a rules sheet. Try to concentrate on completing the objectives indicated in the six inserts near the bottom middle of the PF, like 5 way combo, super jackpot, Martian Multiball etc.
I'd get bored just shooting the middle too.
Must be. And it makes sense considering how good the flow is on AFM.
BTW, the only way this thread works well, is if you include one pin per post. Otherwise, if you have two or more pins in your response, I might agree with pin#1 and disagree with pin#2, now I can't easily vote on your post...
I see guys with lists of 10 "overrateds" and 10 "underrateds" then a guy is thumbs-upping the post.
Do you realize the odds of someone else agreeing with you on 20 coin flip decisions are... 524,287-to-1 against.
I guess somebody just met his soul-mate!!!
LOL !
-mof
Quoted from Caucasian2Step:While I don't agree with everything noted here, I like the format, so I'm goin' with my list and why. I'm going down the list from #1 until I get to the 10th overly rated game.
1) Medieval Madness. Shoot the castle, survive, shoot the castle survive, shoot the castle, survive, you get the idea. After about 40-50 shots, you have defeated the King of Payne and won the tournament. All that awesomeness reduced to a 1 shot game. Truly saddening... CALLING MYSTERY PROGRAMMER!
2) Indiana Jones (WMS). Shoot the center lock, start multiball. Shoot the center lock, start multiball, shoot the center lock and buggy software that make a billion points go away right quick.
3) Theater of Magic. Shoot the left orbit, lap around the PF, shoot the left orbit, lap around the PF, (starting to see a pattern here?!?). Talk to Lyman and discuss pinball rules.
4) Tales of Arabian Nights. Look at the pretty game, exploit numerous rules that negate any real earned points on the table. A great game for the girlfriend and museum piece/mod collectors.
5) Circus Voltaire. Another game that needs serious s/w revision. Eternal wizard mode takes all the fun out of being rewarded for playing well. This one was a tough one for me as I REALLY like the game, until that point. Then... ugh.
6) Metallica. This is a good game, not a great game. Shoot Sparky, survive, Shoot Sparky, survive, Shoot Sparky, survive, Shoot Sparky, survive, Shoot Sparky, survive, Shoot Sparky, survive, Shoot Sparky, survive, Shoot Sparky, survive, Shoot Sparky, survive, Shoot Sparky, survive, Shoot Sparky, survive, Shoot Sparky, survive, Shoot Sparky, survive, try and get a stack in there somewhere. I still have hope for the S/W revision, but 'Tallikuh Fanboys need to watch Some kind of monster and remember that half these guys are whiny little bitches who grew into everything they ever rebelled against as kids and are too stupid to see the irony looking back at them in the mirror.
7) Wizard of Oz. Potential is the word for this deck. New tech and a brilliant ruleset cannot save the awkward PF and new boards that need to be put into this game for it to work as it should. Like Metallica, I'll give this more time, but right now, it is severely overrated. Find a working one if you can and enjoy the theater this game has. I'd still rather have a game that has game within it.
Elvira and the Party Monsters. Left Ramp to the right flipper feed, Left Ramp to the right flipper feed, Left Ramp to the right flipper feed, Left Ramp to the right flipper feed, I think you get the idea. I love the character and artwork on this game, but Mystery Programmer needs to step in on this deck.
9) Judge Dredd. This one is particularly painful for me as I absolutely loved the comics as a kid and this deck embodies the feel of the comics and has all the dark judges in it, but this game just doesn't put it together with gameplay. Feel the pain!
10) Champion Pub. I'd rather skip a real rope.
Top SS Runners up:
Guns and Roses. I like Slash. The game suffers from so much wonderful input and ideas and not enough game/rule testing. Standard issue procedure at DE. Select super pops and keep putting it in there until you 9 it out. What a shame.
Bk2k. Play this game with your right hand.
Bride of Pinbot. Enjoy the theater, this game is a 1 shot game that will insta-boot when the second player gets the Bil club. Johnny Mnemonic. Gitcher spinner mod on. Or else.
So you rated games down if there is some exploit for tournaments? Fair, but hardly a reason to call a game overrated. MM and AFM for two are so much more than bashing the middle...who plays that way except for tourney snobs??
Pyongyang
.
For me, pretty much EVERY stern LE is overrated. I really can't think of a single one that holds up to the hype that owners have bestowed on it.
As far as games that others seem to like but do nothing for me, ACDC, Tron, CP, and JunkYard and pretty games but not much fun for me to play for various reasons.
It's funny, as I look at the top of the thread at all the games that are linked, I see a bunch of games I'd like to own at some point.
Quoted from Pimp77:So you rated games down if there is some exploit for tournaments? Fair, but hardly a reason to call a game overrated. MM and AFM for two are so much more than bashing the middle...who plays that way except for tourney snobs??
AFM is so much more than bashing down the middle. MM could be more as well. Years ago, back when I didn't know any better (HA!) I'd go for the multiball from the Merlin saucer. Now that I know better for points is points is points... that's what I shoot for. It's not to say that sometimes I play pinball just for fun. I do. And that's when I play MM for multiball from the Merlin saucer, or try to get to the video mode, or just do whatever I feel like.
And for some people that's fine.
I use pinball as a self improvement tool (skills, physical, emotional and mental) and for that, when the heat is on. I'm going for the win. A well designed game addresses all aspects of play and the player and keeps that challenge up every moment you are playing. If that makes me a Tourney Snob (tm) that's all right by me.
Quoted from Caucasian2Step:I use pinball as a self improvement tool (skills, physical, emotional and mental)
Totally. Pinball is a game that can bring out the worst in you; but if you so choose, you can learn to tame anger and impatience using it. It seems to make you play better, too.
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