TOM Trunk Error - Leon's Fix. NOW AVAILABLE, SEE POST #225


By EvanDickson

2 years ago


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  • 680 posts
  • 173 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 days ago by Strummy
  • Topic is favorited by 57 Pinsiders

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Topic index (key posts)

18 key posts have been marked in this topic

Post #128 Schematics Posted by german-pinball (2 years ago)

Post #131 Prototype Posted by german-pinball (2 years ago)

Post #133 Animated installation guide for prototype Posted by german-pinball (2 years ago)

Post #145 Prototype photos & video Posted by german-pinball (2 years ago)

Post #146 Trunk opto board prototype Posted by german-pinball (2 years ago)

Post #210 PCB layouts Posted by german-pinball (2 years ago)

Post #225 Opto board replacements, pricing, and shipping info Posted by german-pinball (2 years ago)

Post #242 Opto Board PCBs Posted by german-pinball (2 years ago)

Post #359 Photos of populated boards Posted by german-pinball (2 years ago)

Post #372 Photo of installed board Posted by german-pinball (2 years ago)

Post #375 Details on functionality Posted by german-pinball (2 years ago)

Post #381 More photos of installed boards Posted by canea (2 years ago)

Post #385 More photos of installed boards Posted by FreeBee (2 years ago)

Post #386 More photos of installed boards Posted by mschonbrun (2 years ago)

Post #388 More photos of installed boards Posted by jsa (2 years ago)

Post #394 Photos of populated boards and board tester Posted by german-pinball (2 years ago)

Post #458 Installation information Posted by german-pinball (2 years ago)

Post #475 Board schematic Posted by german-pinball (2 years ago)


Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

There are 680 posts in topic. You are on page 1 of 14.
#1 2 years ago

I'd like to do this, but the instructions are a little sparse. There's no part number for the relay or the little bread board he uses, so I'm not sure what they are. Anyone done this and have more detailed instruction?

#2 2 years ago

What Leon writes is right, I'v had a few theatre's with this behaviour.
Though the pinbits auto eddy boards seem to solve it often too.

#3 2 years ago
Quoted from DavidPinballWizz:

What Leon writes is right, I'v had a few theatre's with this behaviour.
Though the pinbits auto eddy boards seem to solve it often too.

It says that's for outlanes, but does not work on the trunk.

I figured out the answer to my original question though. I can zoom in on his picture in the article, and was able to pick the part number for the relay off the part. I ordered a 2 pack of the relay for 8 bucks all in on ebay. And then I ordered a small pack of bread boards, so I should be able to build this thing (actually, 2 of them) for 15 bucks all in. Which is awesome, it bugs me when the trunk gets weird.

#4 2 years ago

Edit: I see you figured it out while I was typing. Good luck.

The relay is triggered off 12v, you can see it on the picture. It is a 24v relay that can handle 8A at 250v although this is way more than necessary for this setup. The board is just a standard breadboard. You can get them at Radio Shack if you still have one near you.

He connects the relay in parallel with the trunk motor. This way when the motor is running it energizes the relay. When the relays is energized it opens the contacts for the eddy board, which means no ball hits can be sensed.

Connect the relay's coil contacts to Pins 1 and 4 of J2 on the motor control PCB. This will allow the relay to energize when the trunk is moving.

Now hook up one lead of the eddy sensor wiring to the normally closed contacts of the relay. These contacts will be opened when the relay is energized by the motor so that it can't sense a ball. The wire you want to run to the NC contacts of the relay are Pin 2 on J1 of the eddy sensor PCB. You are basically running this wire into one NC pin on the relay and back out of the other NC pin and back to the eddy board.

The connectors on the breadboard just pass the power either to the relay, or directly through from one pin to the other.

#5 2 years ago

I thought this one http://www.pinbits.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=375 but seems to be sold out.
But indeed Leon's bord will solve it 100%.

#6 2 years ago

Where can I find information regarding Leon's board/fix?

#8 2 years ago

Thank you!

1 week later
#9 2 years ago

Here is a linkt to the datasheet of the relay:

http://www.datasheetarchive.com/dlmain/Datasheets-20/DSA-388631.pdf

As said, the relay is oversized - this one is not so expensive:

http://www.mouser.de/search/ProductDetail.aspx?Omron-Electronics%2fG5LE-1-VD-DC24%2f&qs=JK6Bpmia%2fmst%2fmdz7nyVOw%3d%3d

Important: Do not forget a flybackdiode over the relais coil!!!! It looks, as Leon forget this.

#10 2 years ago

In a hurry I designed the little PCB. I could etch you a little board and ship to you.

If someone could verify. would be good.

Here is the layout:

Board.JPG

The board could look like this:

Board 1.JPG

#11 2 years ago

Perhaps this might help you a bit

tom schem.JPG

#12 2 years ago

You can even make it better. Why use the two 0,156 pin-headers. Imho it is easier, to solder 2 wires direct to the motor. So you are also more flexible where mounting the new pcb, e.g. near to the eddy-board.

Here we go - 3rd board is my suggestion with another smaller relay:

layout alternative.JPG

#13 2 years ago

Very interested in this board fix. Let us know updates when you have them - would love to have one of these myself.

#14 2 years ago
Quoted from canea:

Very interested in this board fix. Let us know updates when you have them - would love to have one of these myself.

The idea is form Leon (RIP) - a really great guy form belgium.

I only made the new layout, to help EvanDickson, the thread starter.
But unfortunately there came no response.

Only thing, I can offer you, is to etch you a board and put all parts on it - if you want.

I thought about the design a bit and made a new design. I do not like the way, Leon fastens the new PCB to the trunk-opto-pcb with only 1 screw. In my new design, you use both upper srews of the trunk-opto-pcb. I alsi rearragned the connectors, so connecting the cables is more easy and fits better imho.

Unfortunately I do not have a TOM for testing.

But fotos say more than words.

NEW Design single.JPG

NEW Design.JPG

#15 2 years ago

I would definitely be interested in this as my TOM has the same issue.

#16 2 years ago
Quoted from njgsx96:

I would definitely be interested in this as my TOM has the same issue.

OK, no probelm for me, to make 1 or 2 boards.

But you could do me a favour. Please measure the length for the 2 new cables. As said, I do not have a TOM. In the following foto I need the length of the 2 yellow marked cables. Please take a wire and measure a comortable lenghth, not too long but also not too short.

Wire length.GIF

#17 2 years ago
Quoted from german-pinball:

But you could do me a favour. Please measure the length for the 2 new cables. As said, I do not have a TOM. In the following foto I need the length of the 2 yellow marked cables. Please take a wire and measure a comortable lenghth, not too long but also not too short.

Nice designs change - that would look very clean over the opto board. I would estimate the length of the wires as about 7 inches/18 cm each. I will send you a PM.

#18 2 years ago

I would be interested too in this.
A set of extra cables with connectors so this is a plug and play set would be a huge bonus.

Greetings from Belgium.

#19 2 years ago

OK, I will make 4 boards, but please do the following measurments for me:

please measure.GIF

#20 2 years ago

I am interested in this fix as well, Someone just need to tell me when they are ready to ship.
Magicchiz

#21 2 years ago

Maybe someone can be more exact than me, but here goes. Distance between the two mounting screws, from center to center is 60 mm. 4.9 mm looks about right for the holes. Diameter of the nuts is 10 mm.

#22 2 years ago

I would like to purchase one also from you ... the more plug & play ... the better for me! THANKS for doing these if you can.

Dan

#23 2 years ago
Quoted from DB62:

I would like to purchase one also from you ... the more plug & play ... the better for me! THANKS for doing these if you can.
Dan

+1

I'm interested

#24 2 years ago

I cannot for the life of me find a ruler with mm, and I know I have one. But using what I found, it looks to be 2.375 inches from center to center (60.3249999mm). I agree on the length of wire posted before. I think ~7" would be a good length.

I will keep looking for a better ruler (and one for the metric system too for you). hope to post later tonight if I find it.

IMAG1060.jpg

IMAG1061.jpg

#25 2 years ago

I am interested in one board too

#26 2 years ago

Found the metric ruler. Hopefully these help. If you need something else, let me know! thanks again!

IMAG1063.jpg

IMAG1064.jpg

#27 2 years ago

+1, also interested. I'll be watching this with interest.

#28 2 years ago

Here is the final board. I will etch it this weekend.

magic magic trunk.JPG

#29 2 years ago

Wauw, looks really great.
And love the tribute to Leon. I've met him in person a few times and was a really nice guy.

#30 2 years ago
Quoted from DavidPinballWizz:

And love the tribute to Leon. I've met him in person a few times and was a really nice guy.

+1 Nice to see tribute on the pcb! Did the same thing with the "Sys80 Universal Tester" board that I offered to the community. I'm sure he'd have been thrilled that his projects continue to inspire new ideas & boards!

I also like "THE ULTIMATE"

#31 2 years ago

Awesome!!!

#32 2 years ago

Hey, this thread really took off since I thought it was resolved. A specific board, that's awesome, German-Pinball. And I love that the required parts are labelled on the board! Any idea on the cost of the product?

Thanks,

Evan

#33 2 years ago

Hold on a sec.
Am I correct that this PCB is connected to the exit of the BI-DIRECTIONAL motor control PCB A-16120 ?
If so, then I would suggest not to install D1, the L6203 would not like that.

LeonsRIPMMTB TEH fix.jpg

#34 2 years ago
Quoted from EvanDickson:

Hey, this thread really took off since I thought it was resolved. A specific board, that's awesome, German-Pinball. And I love that the required parts are labelled on the board! Any idea on the cost of the product?
Thanks,
Evan

As there are so many interests, I have decided, to finally let produce professional boards. But at first, I will etch this weekend the prototype and send it to "canea" for testing.

The more boards I let produce, the lower the costs for each pcb:

10 pieces / 12,00 USD/each
20 pieces / 6,00 USD/each
30 pieces / 5,50 USD/each
50 pieces / 3,60 USD/each

The rest are the molex connectors, the relay and 1m=42,5inches wire.

Depending on how much pcbs I let produce, I think, the price for ALL parts will be about 12-18 USD.

As far as I see, we now have 10 intersted people - 20 would be good, then the price for each pcb is the half compared to 10.

If I ship the spare board only, you should take yourself care about to get the parts with, but have extra shipping costs from the parts distributor or so. Best would be, I get all parts, so the set is complete and I ship as a DIY-project or complete assembeld, as desired.

- Ingo

PS.:
What is with the control-LEDs? Are these desired??

How thick are the wires, AWG20 ????

#35 2 years ago
Quoted from zaza:

Hold on a sec.
Am I correct that this PCB is connected to the exit of the BI-DIRECTIONAL motor control PCB A-16120 ?
If so, then I would suggest not to install D1, the L6203 would not like that.
LeonsRIPMMTB TEH fix.jpg

Thanks for the hint, I will check it!!!

#36 2 years ago

i would be in for one.

#37 2 years ago

If you made 50 I bet they'd sell out.

#38 2 years ago

Don't have problems with my ToM now, but if you all are telling me there is a common problem, then perhaps it's only a matter of time.

In that case, I'll take one just to keep as a spare, since ToM won't be leaving my lineup anytime in the foreseeable future..

#39 2 years ago

I'll buy one.

#40 2 years ago

Awesome, sign me up for one too, then. I'll keep the parts I have already ordered as spares.

Thanks,

Evan

Quoted from bstyles:

Don't have problems with my ToM now, but if you all are telling me there is a common problem, then perhaps it's only a matter of time.
In that case, I'll take one just to keep as a spare, since ToM won't be leaving my lineup anytime in the foreseeable future..

Quoted from german-pinball:

As there are so many interests, I have decided, to finally let produce professional boards. But at first, I will etch this weekend the prototype and send it to "canea" for testing.
The more boards I let produce, the lower the costs for each pcb:
10 pieces / 12,00 USD/each
20 pieces / 6,00 USD/each
30 pieces / 5,50 USD/each
50 pieces / 3,60 USD/each
The rest are the molex connectors, the relay and 1m=42,5inches wire.
Depending on how much pcbs I let produce, I think, the price for ALL parts will be about 12-18 USD.
As far as I see, we now have 10 intersted people - 20 would be good, then the price for each pcb is the half compared to 10.
If I ship the spare board only, you should take yourself care about to get the parts with, but have extra shipping costs from the parts distributor or so. Best would be, I get all parts, so the set is complete and I ship as a DIY-project or complete assembeld, as desired.
- Ingo
PS.:
What is with the control-LEDs? Are these desired??
How thick are the wires, AWG20 ????

#41 2 years ago
Quoted from zaza:

Hold on a sec.
Am I correct that this PCB is connected to the exit of the BI-DIRECTIONAL motor control PCB A-16120 ?
If so, then I would suggest not to install D1, the L6203 would not like that.
LeonsRIPMMTB TEH fix.jpg

@zaza:
You are absolute correct, it is connected to the BI-DIRECTIONAL pcb A-16120 and the L6203 would not like that

What do you think of the following solution, so we have an effective back emf protection for motor + relay-coil??

BACK EMF protection.JPG

#42 2 years ago

If Leon's modification worked without a diode, then the L6203 is likely protected against voltage spike.
In the L6203 datasheet there are 2 diodes per channel so it looks like it won't need external diodes.
Maybe someone with knowledge about electronic components can give a more decisive answer.

6203-1.JPG

#43 2 years ago

I will take one also

#44 2 years ago

Again ... I will purchase a COMPLETE one. Thanks for doing these!

Dan

#45 2 years ago
Quoted from zaza:

If Leon's modification worked without a diode, then the L6203 is likely protected against voltage spike.
In the L6203 datasheet there are 2 diodes per channel so it looks like it won't need external diodes.
Maybe someone with knowledge about electronic components can give a more decisive answer.
6203-1.JPG

@zaza:

Thanks.

Yes, Leon´s mode worked without diodes, but we want the absolut perfect layout.

Your excerpt from the datasheet show the 2 inner diodes work as freewheel-diodes, so that there is protection against cross conduction.

But datasheet also says "Although the device is protected against cross conduction, current spikes can appear on the current sense pin due to charge/discharge phenomena in the intrinsic source drain capacitances".

So EXTERNAL freewheeling diodes would prevent current flow through Rsense and relocate power dissipation to "outside".

Same datasheet shows this with external diodes:

external freewheel diodes.JPG

Here, they are also shown:
http://mech.vub.ac.be/teaching/info/mechatronica/finished_projects_2010/groep2/electro.html

I am a bit unsure now, but ihmo, these diodes are not absolutly necessary, but it doesn´t hurt to have them (we would have additional protection). And as we are in modern times in these days I would not use good old BYW-Diodes, but schottky diodes e.g. SB3100.

But we will see, when the prototype is etched, we can test with and witout diodes.

#46 2 years ago

Please add me to the list.
Thanks
Richard

#47 2 years ago

I've got a ToM so add me to the list.

#48 2 years ago

I'm in for two. You never know.

#49 2 years ago
Quoted from Kiwipinhead:

I will take one also

Me too ... So that's two for New Zealand. My TOM trunk stops all the time.

rd

#50 2 years ago

I think you have to experiment with this motor-control board.
This ic has the (used) ability to stop the motor instantly like a brake when both inputs are 'high'.
I don't know if this still works when external diodes are implemented but if it does, it indeed doesn't hurt.

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