(Topic ID: 234515)

TOM instant restarts

By harryhoudini

5 years ago


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  • 62 posts
  • 7 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by Pin_Guy
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#18 5 years ago
Quoted from robertmee:

How old are the 15000uf caps? If original id replace them.

I wouldn't replace any of them that aren't problematic...and I'm a expert level board repair tech. These capacitors are very difficult to replace and without the proper board repair skills AND the right equipment, the results of this attempted repair often result in more NEW problems than are actually resolved.

#19 5 years ago
Quoted from robertmee:

They're over 20 years old, so I disagree. As for damaging board, fair point...pretty easy to remove with a decent desolder station, though. I just had one fail and short and burned a hole through the board...and it was flat as a board on top.

This should never happen, unless the fuse powering the bridge rectifier is substantially over fused, it would blow immediately upon this type failure.

#21 5 years ago
Quoted from robertmee:

The capacitors have a mean failure rate and lifetime expectancy.

Don't take this number at face value, this number represents an average life expectancy of the part in a powered on state at a specific temperature before it has any degradation. Unless you owned the game from new and installed a run hour meter, the machines actual power on hours cannot be determined with any degree of accuracy.

#25 5 years ago
Quoted from robertmee:

I speak also from 20 years experience doing this. I don't know that I find removing caps any more difficult than removing the lk323 or header pins...it's all through hole desoldering.

This statement tells me you have never removed a "snap cap" from a double sided board. I have 30+ years in board repair and can tell you for a fact they are not the same...even with commercial grade equipment.

#28 5 years ago
Quoted from robertmee:

5v dips are problematic. How exactly are you going to determine that a cap itself is problematic? Certainly you recognize that caps fail all the time due to age and have no tell tale buldge.

You determine this with an RMS voltmeter or an Oscilloscope to measure the amount of AC ripple on the DC voltage.

#30 5 years ago
Quoted from robertmee:

I've removed many....just removed all 5 from a BSD. Don't know why this is turned into a pissing match. I remember now why I quit posting on Pinside before. I'll bow out and leave you guys to direct the OP. Apologies for the way this thread turned.

Sorry...I'm just reading this post for the first time and replying to posts in order...not trying to make this a pissing match; however your first advice to replace these capacitors to someone of unknown skill without doing any of the proper diagnostic checks will almost assurance have disastrous results...unless you work for Rottendog

In my opinion, unless you measure greater than 5% AC ripple on your DC voltage (250mV@5VDC) you should not replace the capacitor.

What does your AC ripple measure?

#33 5 years ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Going to reseat those connectors with my fingers crossed.

Good luck, if the problem goes away after reseating then you know where the issues lies. Many folks don't realize this, but the life expectancy of these headers and connectors is 50 mechanical actions before the plating begins to break down...removing and replacing a board is 2 actions as both the removal and installation are separate mechanical actions.

#37 5 years ago

It's so hard to tell with all of the low quality stuff that comes out of China. I primarily stick with commercial grade equipment from Pace (made in USA), with the full expectation that I will never have to replace it.

#49 5 years ago
Quoted from NPO:

Holy cow. We're having a discussion without immediate suggestion of putting reset daughterboards in!!!!!!

That's because these don't fix the problem, they hide it.

#50 5 years ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

I also noticed C5 was domed a bit

Yeah I think you nailed it; I don't know what meter you are using but it's likely giving you an average DC voltage which likely has a lot of AC ripple causing voltages to drop much lower than the 4.86 you are measuring.

#51 5 years ago
Quoted from Borygard:

Loving the discussion in this thread! I've hoped for a long time that the mantra of "replace the bridges and caps" would end, and it looks like that's actually happening.

Also, the ridiculous reset daughter board not coming up as an immediate suggestion is awesome.

This is one of the best posts I read on here in a very long time, and I couldn't agree with you more.

#53 5 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

The discoloration on the red 5v input wires of J101 is not helping much either.

I'm sure its not ... I would be much more interested in the 5VDC reading on the CPU board than any other measurement as this will tell you both the CPUs operating voltage, as well as the voltage loss from the PDB, as it's the voltage difference measured between this point and the +5V TP on the PDB.

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#55 5 years ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Are there test points on the CPU? Not sure I can see what you're testing in the image there.

This is measured across C31 the red and black test clips, the large capacitor on the CPU board, one side is your 5V source through the Inductor, the other side is ground.

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#62 5 years ago

.04V loss from the 5V test point on the PDB to the MPU is very good.

Looks like once you get C5 replaced you'll likely be in good shape, I would be interested in what the AC ripple voltage is. To take this measurement, just put your voltmeter leads between the 5V test point and ground on the MPU and switch your meter to AC volts. This would make a good comparison point to see how much this ripple voltage decreases with the new capacitor.

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