(Topic ID: 273361)

TOM F116 (+12V Secondary) blowing as soon as machine is turned on

By curban

3 years ago


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  • 23 posts
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  • Latest reply 3 years ago by curban
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    #1 3 years ago

    Looking for help on a TOM I brought home yesterday. Machine worked great at Sellers.

    Set it up this morning. Vacuumed the cabinet and dusted down some of the wire harnesses in the cabinet (didn’t touch any wires under the Playfield)

    Turned machine on. Everything seemed fine for 30 seconds. Walked away to put away vacuum cleaner when I returned the machine automatically fired three balls into the shooter lane and the color dmd went out. I shut the machine off and a little smoke started billowing from behind coin door. Lifted the Playfield...but couldn’t identify where smoke came from.

    Checked fuses. F116 (+12V secondary) was blown. Replaced it. Turned machine on. Looked like dmd was going to light up, but then went out again. F116 blew again. Disconnected Dmd completely. Put new fuse in F116. Turned machine on watching the fuse, and fuse immediately blew again.

    Down to my last 3amp fuse. Don’t want to do the insane thing again and blow that without isolating problem. Never tried to troubleshoot without a DMD to help me with tests.

    Any suggestions on how to spot the problem?

    #2 3 years ago

    Are there any added LED light strips added? If so, remove them.

    #3 3 years ago

    F116: Shorted bridge BR5 or shorted motor or shorted opto light or other 12 volt device on playfield or backbox, or even some Dot Matrix displays

    #4 3 years ago
    Quoted from PinballManiac40:

    Are there any added LED light strips added? If so, remove them.

    - no LED strips that I can find

    Quoted from emsrph:

    F116: Shorted bridge BR5 or shorted motor or shorted opto light or other 12 volt device on playfield or backbox, or even some Dot Matrix displays

    - not sure how to start on this. I disconnected the connectors to the trough optics, but the F116 fuse blew with those disconnected too. How do I know what my other 12 v devices are?

    #5 3 years ago

    Do I dare put a 4amp fuse in F116? It calls for a 3A. Do I risk blowing the color dmd?

    #6 3 years ago
    Quoted from curban:

    Do I dare put a 4amp fuse in F116? It calls for a 3A. Do I risk blowing the color dmd?

    If you like blowing shit up, go for it.

    Me. I'd pull the driver board and put a meter on bridge rectifier 5 and see if it's shorted.

    LTG : )

    #7 3 years ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    If you like blowing shit up, go for it.
    Me. I'd pull the driver board and put a meter on bridge rectifier 5 and see if it's shorted.
    LTG : )

    Yep, start with the basics- check to see if bridge is ok

    Looking thru manual there are a bunch of 12v devices at J114, 116, 117 and 118.

    If you can get a circuit breaker to attach to spent fuse corpse it'll be handy.

    circuit breaker 1 (resized).jpgcircuit breaker 1 (resized).jpg
    #8 3 years ago

    Who doesn’t like blowing shit up?

    But this was kinda expensive shit...so I guess I’ll try your idea.

    Still a newbie that this. Do I need to disconnect everything from board to test BR5?

    I have an analog multimeter that I really don’t know how to use too well. Usually just use it to check resistance across fuses to tell if they’re blown...and DCV to see if I’m getting power to things that aren’t working.

    Gonna see what I can figure out...but any help for technical novices would be appreciated.

    #9 3 years ago
    Quoted from curban:

    Do I need to disconnect everything from board to test BR5?

    To remove the board from the game, yes. Pictures, notes, mark everything.

    Quoted from curban:

    I have an analog multimeter that I really don’t know how to use too well.

    Youtube has lots of short how to videos. Some may even use your model and brand of meter.

    Quoted from curban:

    But this was kinda expensive shit..

    Not too bad, maybe $300 for a new driver board.

    LTG : )

    #10 3 years ago
    Quoted from emsrph:

    Looking thru manual there are a bunch of 12v devices at J114, 116, 117 and 118.

    Unplug these. Put in your last fuse. Turn game on. If the fuse blows, you know the issue is on the board.

    LTG : )

    #11 3 years ago

    So, wasn’t really sure how to check BR5. Don’t have any idea what a bridge rectifier does and didnt yet do the research. Nevertheless, I checked resistance across each of the four nodes (probably not the right word) and none of them were shorted. They all showed some level of resistance.

    Only after I did that did I see the suggestion of removing J114, J116, J117, 118. Tried removing those. Fuse didn’t blow. Put 116 and 118 back in. Fuse didn’t blow. Not much came on. Turned off. Put 117 in. Turned on. Fuse didn’t blow. Not much came on. Turned off. Put 114 in. Turned on. Fuse didn’t blow. Everything came on. Started to smell ‘burning’. Turned machine off. Lifted Playfield. Touching around looking for a hot coil or something. Can’t figure out what was hot. If it matters, coindoor was open.

    #12 3 years ago
    Quoted from curban:

    If it matters, coindoor was open.

    Coin door open only disable high power, 50 volts DC. Not coils.You have a low power 12 volt issue going on.

    Check your manual. Start by going over everything on J114 out in the game.

    LTG : )

    #13 3 years ago

    So. After a few moments burning smell started. Wires for lighted flippers were tapping into J118. The coating of the wires near the flippers was all melted together. Guess I somehow had a short across the wires.

    I cut the wires for the flipper lights under the Playfield ‘upstream’ of where they were melted. Machine has been on now for five minutes and all seems well.

    Started to play a game...flippers didn’t flip. Since I was out of 3 amp fuses when I was ‘troubleshooting’, I stole some from the fliptronics board f901 and f902. Upper right and upper left flipper. Silly me figured that since there were no upper flippers on TOM I could use these. Moved the fliptronics f903 and f904 (Lower flipper left and right) to 901 and 902. Flippers are okay.

    2 questions now:
    - any reason I should Not replace wiring to lighted flippers?
    - any reason I need f903 and f904 fuses?

    #14 3 years ago

    Glad you found out the issue.

    Lighted flippers? Is that a mod? I’d get more fuses first and maybe a fire extinguisher

    Not familiar with everything TOM if any other devices use those solenoid circuits. Maybe ask in the TOM club or check schematics/manual.

    #15 3 years ago
    Quoted from curban:

    - any reason I should Not replace wiring to lighted flippers?

    Why ? So you can deal with it again at some point ? Something went wrong, get that after market crap out of there.

    Quoted from curban:

    - any reason I need f903 and f904 fuses?

    It would be nice. Say your game blows a fuse for no reason. And you stick in a new one and keep playing. Or wait until you blow a fuse, and can't play or do anything until your get new fuses. Your call.

    LTG : )

    #16 3 years ago

    SOB...trap door eject not working. Manual says solenoids 33-35 are wired through the fliptronics board J902 and J907. Guess I’m ordering more fuses.

    Thanks for help. Much appreciated.

    Flipper lights were a mod by previous owner. Not sure how the wires ‘shorted’ during transport; machine was on at his place for 5 hrs.

    BTW...Seller was incredibly hospitable...just met them yesterday and they fed us food and drink and encouraged us to play their collection for hours (and what a collection they have!). Great people. Finding that a lot in pinball community.

    #17 3 years ago
    Quoted from LTG:

    If you like blowing shit up, go for it.

    Thank you @ltg, you made my day!! Lol

    #18 3 years ago
    Quoted from curban:

    Not sure how the wires ‘shorted’ during transport;

    Might be the wires ( move with the flippers ? ) might be the light they go to.

    If your tech level was up to it, dig into it. Otherwise get that crap out of there.

    LTG : )

    #19 3 years ago

    Stole a couple of 3A’s from my fish tales and put them in TOM 903 and 904. TOM seems working completely now (except for lighted flippers, of course).

    Can’t go long with fish tales down though, so placing order for all fuses I’m low on tonight.

    Thanks again to all who helped. Can always count on Pinside!

    #20 3 years ago
    Quoted from curban:

    Stole a couple of 3A’s

    Here's a (possibly) little known tidbit. You can take the 3A fuse from F101 and/or F102 in a fliptronic game (only fliptronic - not pre-fliptronic) provided that J109 is not in use. Almost all games (but not all - Twilight Zone comes to mind) do not use J109. Be aware that earlier revisions of the board (for use in pre-fliptronic) specify that a 2.5A fuse should be used in F101 and F102.

    #21 3 years ago

    Glad you got it sorted out.

    #22 3 years ago
    Quoted from curban:

    - any reason I should Not replace wiring to lighted flippers?

    Remove them. This needs to be connected to it's own external power supply. The 12v it is connected to, cannot sustain the current needed for these or LED strips as I had mentioned earlier.

    #23 3 years ago
    Quoted from DumbAss:

    Here's a (possibly) little known tidbit. You can take the 3A fuse from F101 and/or F102 in a fliptronic game (only fliptronic - not pre-fliptronic) provided that J109 is not in use. Almost all games (but not all - Twilight Zone comes to mind) do not use J109. Be aware that earlier revisions of the board (for use in pre-fliptronic) specify that a 2.5A fuse should be used in F101 and F102.

    —-thanks for tip. Fuses ordered, but FT is up-and-running already too.

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