(Topic ID: 170471)

TOM - Ball not kicked out of trap door


By nibre

3 years ago



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  • 32 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by pintechev
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130+132-5.jpg
132-5.jpg
DSC_3739 (resized).JPG

#1 3 years ago

When the ball has entered the trunk and rolled to the trap door, it is not kicked out. The door opens alright but the "subway popper" doesn't make a move (and doesn't make a sound). So, the door opens, nothing happens, the door closes, the door opens again, nothing happens, it closes again, and so on...

In the solenoid test menu there is no number 4 in the test! This makes it hard to test the subway popper.

Any advice?

#2 3 years ago

Let's start with power. See if you have D.C. Voltage at the lugs of that solenoid.

Marc

#3 3 years ago

Ok, but the voltage is only at the lugs when the ball is kicked out, correct? And since this solenoid (No. 4) is not in the test menu, how and when do I measure the voltage?

#4 3 years ago

Solenoids should always have voltage applied to them. They fire when the path to ground is completed.

Tons of videos online about how to use a multimeter to measure DC voltage. Go and check them out and report back and please be careful as solenoids have high voltage applied to them.

Marc

#5 3 years ago

Also, there is a switch that senses when a ball is in the trap door on the popper. Go into switch test and see if that switch is working.

Always start with the simple stuff and think like the game does. It will only kick a ball up if it thinks a ball is there, so check the switch first. If that checks out, test the solenoid and make sure it has power and can fire. If the switch works and there is power to the solenoid there are additional things to look at, but start with the switch testing.

Marc

#6 3 years ago

Thanks for the advice!

With the machine off, I have measured the resistance of the solenoid (No. 4 "Subway Popper") and compared it to other, working solenoids. They all have the same value (appr. 10.5 ohms).

With the machine on, I have measured the voltage of the solenoid and compared it to other solenoids (again, the same value).

I have not yet tried to "ground" the solenoid because I'm not quite sure how to do it. I guess that the door should be closed (in order to get high voltage to the solenoids) and that a connection should be created between ground (e.g. the power metal box) and one of the solenoid lugs (the one with only one cable connected?).

I also did a switch test on switch No. 44 named "popper" in the manual (is that the switch you are referring to?). When I use the switch test menu, No. 44 works when I move it with a plastic pen. However, if I lower the playfield, put a ball in the trunk, let it roll to the trap door, the switch is NOT activated according to the test menu. Could this be the problem?

#7 3 years ago
Quoted from nibre:

Could this be the problem?

Yes.

Game doesn't know the ball is there.

LTG : )

#8 3 years ago

And is the solution to adjust the switch "arm" by carefully bending it upwards?

#9 3 years ago
Quoted from nibre:

And is the solution to adjust the switch "arm" by carefully bending it upwards?

Gently, and past the body of the switch so you don't effect the metal "arm" pushing the tiny knob into the switch body.

LTG : )

#10 3 years ago

I have adjusted the switch (No. 44) so that it closes when I do the "trap door test" (17 in the test menu). Then the trap door opens and... the ball is NOT pushed out.

If I am to test the solenoid, I feel a bit uncertain about how to do the ground test but I guess that the coin door should be closed (in order to get high voltage to the solenoids) and that a connection should be created between ground (e.g. the power metal box) and one of the solenoid lugs (the one with only one cable connected?). Or should I do it at the transistor? If so, how?

#11 3 years ago

Test it in the solenoid test.

Go to test > solenoid test > cycle to the correct coil/feature. you'll have to close the coin door when you get to the right test so that high power flows to the coils (or press in the door interlock switches).

Also, Test T17 specifically runs a test for that whole assembly "trap door".

#12 3 years ago

In the solenoid test menu there is no number 4 ("subway popper") in the test! This makes it hard/impossible to test the subway popper.

When I run the "trap door test" (17 in the test menu), switch No. 44 opens, the trap door opens and... the ball is NOT pushed out.

#13 3 years ago

Show us a picture of the underside of the trap door. I have an idea but I'll need to see it.

#14 3 years ago

Here:

DSC_3739 (resized).JPG

#15 3 years ago

Can you try going to the trap door test again, but this time, use your finger to press the metal plunger up inside the coil and bit and see if it catches and pulls up?

Marc

#16 3 years ago

I tried the trap door test with playfield up and coin door closed. I moved one switch at a time with a plastic pen.

This happened:
Switch 41: ok
Switch 42: ok
Switch 43: ok
Now solenoid 34 "Sub Ball Release" (?) is activated.
Nothing happens with either solenoid 3 ("Trap Door Up") or solenoid 4 ("Subway Popper"). Not even when I activate switch 44 or move solenoid 4 manually.

Solenoid 3 is surprising since it works in the test menu and when I do the trap door test with a ball.

Argh! This is frustrating.

#17 3 years ago

I remember that in test mode that the solenoid test isn't long enough to eject a ball. Another way to test this is to turn the game off and drop a ball into the cellar (not through the trunk, but directly through the trap door.)

Turn the game on and it will detect the ball in there and try to clear it.

Also, you need the rubber grommets under the solenoid that controls the ball gate. Cannot tell under the black electrical tape, but the grommet props the metal plunger up into the magnetic field enough to allow to solenoid to pick it up. Sometimes you need to put your ear near the coil and listen to it. When it's engaged electrically, it has a buzz that you can hear.

Marc

#18 3 years ago

Do you have ~70Volt on J132-5 ? (with coindoor closed). If not, check the Vio-Yel wire on the coil lug all the way up to the driverboard.
132-5.jpg

#19 3 years ago

Its a known weirdness on that game that if the plunger is too low the coil wont grab it and fire it forward.
Tape something that is 1/4" thick on the stop to keep the plunger from going too low and see it it moves under test with the high voltage engaged.
Also...
Put a voltmeter on the coil and see if you get hi voltage when the coil is triggered. (see above thx zaza)

#20 3 years ago

I tried putting the ball into the cellar with the machine off and the turned it on. The result: Trap door opening and closing over and over again without any apparent attempts to kick out the ball.

The solenoid with the black eletrical tape is No. 3 "Trap door up", which is working. There is a rubber grommet under the black tape.

Solenoid No 4 "Subway Popper" is the green one next to it (the one not working). As you can see, there is nothing stopping it from going down. But this solenoid has worked earlier for a very long time.

It is not possible to test No 4 since it is missing in the test menu (unbelievable, but true!). So, putting a voltmeter there doesn't seem to be helpful.

I have heard that it should be possible to test a solenoid by grounding the transistor. Does anybody know how?

#21 3 years ago

Putting a voltmeter there is helpful. As I said earlier, coils always have voltage applied to them. So you should test the coil and the board connection Zara illustrated above. Power test first, and if that passes, we can follow up with grounding instructions and other suggestions.

Marc

#22 3 years ago
Quoted from nibre:

It is not possible to test No 4 since it is missing in the test menu (unbelievable, but true!). So, putting a voltmeter there doesn't seem to be helpful.

You would be surprised.

Quoted from nibre:

I have heard that it should be possible to test a solenoid by grounding the transistor. Does anybody know how?

That same pin on J132-5 can be (briefly) grounded to activate sol.#4

#23 3 years ago

Its best to see if the voltage is present at the driver board as well as the coil itself.
Use a voltmeter to check both places before doing anything else.
Also check the popper switch for continuity and voltage.

#24 3 years ago

Ok, I did the following tests (coin door closed):

J132-5 and ground shows 82 V DC

I then measured solenoid No 4 and three other ones of the same kind (AE-26-1200). They all gave the same result:
Lug 1 + ground: 82 V DC
Lug 1 + Lug 2: 0 V DC

#25 3 years ago

Those readings look correct. You won't have voltage across the pins because the path to ground isn't complete. Follow Zaza's expert advice above and ground the coil and see if you can get it to fire.

Marc

#26 3 years ago

Ok, but isn't it J130-5?

In the manual, it says that J132 is "not used" and that J130-5 is the drive connection for solenoid #4...

#27 3 years ago

It's the same but J132 is easier to access if you want to measure or to 'ground' this solenoid.
130+132-5.jpg

#28 3 years ago

Ok, so I did the grounding and tested J130-5 (Subway Popper). It worked!

Just as a reference test, I also tried grounding J130-4 (Trap Door Up) and it also worked.

I did the Trap Door Test again with a ball and the same thing happened as before: the ball rolls into place, the trap door opens, but the ball is not kicked out.

I also tried the Trap Door Test manually (without a ball and with the playfield up):
Switch 41: ok
Switch 42: ok
Switch 43: ok
Now solenoid 34 "Sub Ball Release" (?) is activated.
Switch 44: ok
The trap door opens, but solenoid #4 (Subway Popper) is not activated.

#29 3 years ago

So, your path to ground is OK. It could be the transistor, it could be upstream of the transistor. Unless you're really comfortable with board work, I would send the board out. Should be a quick fix for a qualified technician.

Marc

#30 3 years ago

Ribbon cable between cpu and power driver board bad ?

LTG : )

#31 3 years ago

In a last, deperate attempt I tried to push/press the connectors of the ribbon cable between CPU and Power Driver Board. I did the same with other connectors in the back box. I also replaced a missing screw holding the Power Driver Board (looked like a "grounding place" because of a metallic area on the board in contact with the screw).

After this everything seems to work as it should!

I don't know what made it work but my TOM is up and running again.

Thank you all for giving me advice!

#32 3 years ago

Glad you got it back and working and kudos to Lloyd for the final bit of advice.

Marc

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